NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a question. How is it possible, without the theory of doublethink, for a catholic to beleive that God is all knowing and yet that we all have free will? If he is all knowing than there must be a set coarse for everything.

All knowing is easy. God is a passive observer, outside of time. It's like how we know what we did yesterday (assuming a sufficient level of sobriety, of course).

All powerful, however, is somewhat more complex.

I have a question. How is it possible, without the theory of doublethink, for a catholic to beleive that God is all knowing and yet that we all have free will? If he is all knowing than there must be a set coarse for everything.
How is it possible that people not only can't get it through their heads that it's MOST Christians, not just Catholics, but they also can't accept that anybody could POSSIBLY have beliefs other than their own?

If you don't want to believe the way these people do, that's your business. But nobody gave you the right and authority to assume they need to be challenged.

Besides, just because God knows what we're going to do doesn't mean God controls what we're going to do. The way it was explained to me is that all realms of possibility are within God's sight -- ergo, no matter what we choose in any situation, He already knows the outcome. He just doesn't influence what decision we make at that point in time.

Simonist']How is it possible that people not only can't get it through their heads that it's MOST Christians, not just Catholics, but they also can't accept that anybody could POSSIBLY have beliefs other than their own?

If you don't want to believe the way these people do, that's your business. But nobody gave you the right and authority to assume they need to be challenged.

Besides, just because God knows what we're going to do doesn't mean God controls what we're going to do. The way it was explained to me is that all realms of possibility are within God's sight -- ergo, no matter what we choose in any situation, He already knows the outcome. He just doesn't influence what decision we make at that point in time.

Actually I am just asking for more information on my own religion and seeing if anyone else is confused.

On the second part, the way you worded it made it sound like God doesn't know which way we will choose therefore he would not be all knowing.

brushing aside the odd notion that its only a catholic idea....

why would god be limited by human paradox? that it doesnt make sense to YOU doesnt mean that its impossible for god

besides, i know that as soon as a walk toward the door my cat is going to try to get to a spot where she can slip out. does that mean she doesnt have freewill?

Actually I am just asking for more information on my own religion and seeing if anyone else is confused.

On the second part, the way you worded it made it sound like God doesn't know which way we will choose therefore he would not be all knowing.
Ok, do me a favour. On what are you basing this "all-knowing" idea? Are you going by what's actually literally taught in the Church, or are you taking the words "all" and "knowing" and forming your own idea of what you think it should mean? Because there's a difference, and I think you ought to research it if you're really wanting information on your own religion.

brushing aside the odd notion that its only a catholic idea....

I only said Catholic because I am unsure about other religious believes.

why would god be limited by human paradox? that it doesnt make sense to YOU doesnt mean that its impossible for god

besides, i know that as soon as a walk toward the door my cat is going to try to get to a spot where she can slip out. does that mean she doesnt have freewill?

Very good point, however, you are not all knowing. For all you know there could be something that prevents your cat from doing so. If God is all knowing than he sees all. If he knows all than he knows what will happen therefore it seems illogical that one can really make a decision competely free.

It is my understanding that most monotheistic religions have the same belief.

Anyways, as has already been stated, just because God knows the outcome, doesn't mean He made it happen.

Every time I watch my favorite movie, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, whenever Indy is about to step on the "J" tile instead of the "I" tile, I think "but in the Latin alphabet, Jesus starts with an I!"

Do my thoughts influence Indy's actions? Not at all. I know what will happen as a result of Indy's wrong step, but I don't influence his step.

Of course, this analogy is flawed, because I could not effect Indy's choice even if I wanted to. But with God, he can effect our choices, but chooses not to. Yes, he could force us to make the right choices instead of letting us chose the wrong thing... but He doesn't, because free will is, imo, His greatest gift to us.

I only said Catholic because I am unsure about other religious believes.


Very good point, however, you are not all knowing. For all you know there could be something that prevents your cat from doing so. If God is all knowing than he sees all. If he knows all than he knows what will happen therefore it seems illogical that one can really make a decision competely free.
i know that john wilkes booth shot abraham lincoln

does my knowing it invalidate his freewill?

god exists outside the bounds of time and space. that he knows what we will do is not different from my knowing what john wilkes booth did do. that he knows it, doesnt mean we wont choose it.

I have a question. How is it possible, without the theory of doublethink, for a catholic to beleive that God is all knowing and yet that we all have free will? If he is all knowing than there must be a set coarse for everything.

We have a free will. God knows this and knows what will happen. God created the free will.

Is that it?

I have a question. How is it possible, without the theory of doublethink, for a catholic to beleive that God is all knowing and yet that we all have free will? If he is all knowing than there must be a set coarse for everything.

St. Augustine had a very interesting response to the idea that God's knowledge of the future precluded free will. You may want to look it up.

Actually I am just asking for more information on my own religion and seeing if anyone else is confused.

On the second part, the way you worded it made it sound like God doesn't know which way we will choose therefore he would not be all knowing.
If you gave my husband a senario in which I would have to make a decision, every single time he could tell you exactly what I would do. Does that mean he controls me? no. He just knows me well enough that he knows what will happen if I ever get into any senario you put forth.

Maybe God just really knows everyone.

although, I like to think about it like Simonist does. *tries to remember Planet of the Apes*

oh yeah, say there is a car on a highway, each lane forks in another direction, that is like life, you are on the road and have to make a decision, now say that there is an identical car in each lane, that is like time, there are different ways for us to go, we can only see the lane we are on, maybe God can see the whole highway?

nevermind.

I have a question. How is it possible, without the theory of doublethink, for a catholic to beleive that God is all knowing and yet that we all have free will? If he is all knowing than there must be a set coarse for everything.

My only disagreeable comment is that your singling-out of Catholics doesn't make much sense to me. The entire Christian, or for that matter religious in general, populace believe that. It's part of what defines a supreme monotheistic deity, along with omnipotence. And if you think omniscience poses problems, go check out the paradoxes, impossibilities, and logical self-contradictions associated with omnipotence. Wiki has a good article on them.