NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, this is a variation on a very old discussion topic:

We've all had the theological debate about "Why does God let bad things happen to good people?" The main answer usually given to this question is that God doesn't want to tamper with free will.

So a friend and I were sitting around at dinner the other night, and we started to play this game. First, we pretended that we would be given unlimited God powers for one afternoon (designated as 12:00pm-5:00pm). Next, we took turns listing all the ways in which we could use these powers to solve human problems, without disrupting free will.

Anybody care to play? Come on, I know there are people around here who are just itching to talk about how they are smarter than God :).

For starters, there would be a continental thunderstorm over the United States that miraculously zapped only members of the Christian Coalition and several outstanding members of the Republican Party, all of whom gave God lip service but never followed through. And a few Democrats and Independents who did the same as well. But let's face it, Republicans were the ones who used the God Card the most.

Ok, this is a variation on a very old discussion topic:

We've all had the theological debate about "Why does God let bad things happen to good people?" The main answer usually given to this question is that God doesn't want to tamper with free will.

So a friend and I were sitting around at dinner the other night, and we started to play this game. First, we pretended that we would be given unlimited God powers for one afternoon (designated as 12:00pm-5:00pm). Next, we took turns listing all the ways in which we could use these powers to solve human problems, without disrupting free will.

Anybody care to play? Come on, I know there are people around here who are just itching to talk about how they are smarter than God :).

Ooooo! Ooooo! Pick me! Pick me, Bottle! ;)

Ooooo! Ooooo! Pick me! Pick me, Bottle! ;)
Ok, Hots, what shall you do with your God-like powers?

(Remember, it should be something that is at least nominally aimed at IMPROVING the human condition.)

When I played this with my buddy, his first idea was, "I would give everybody a chest cannon that shoots pies."

I asked what good he thought that would do, and he replied, "Dunno, but it couldn't hurt, right?"

For starters, there would be a continental thunderstorm over the United States that miraculously zapped only members of the Christian Coalition and several outstanding members of the Republican Party, all of whom gave God lip service but never followed through. And a few Democrats and Independents who did the same as well. But let's face it, Republicans were the ones who used the God Card the most.

I think you've pretty much failed on the not violating free-will thing. These people are free to be wrong - or right, who knows? I think Gods holding off on judgement day until the end, sort of thing.

I think I'd give a lot of people momentary flashes of inspiration regarding advanced recycling technology. Rays of sunlight on pools of algae sort of thing. THen they can decide what to do with the inspiration given.

Oh crap, I believe that happens anyway.

I'm going to assume that this is like the monkey's paw, and inform people how their Godly plans go disastrously wrong.

What? You're asking me to descend to the level of a deity, the scum of the immortal world? I'd prefer to stay as Ruler of the Omniverse and all Khoen Vanaar, thank you very much. ;)

I think you've pretty much failed on the not violating free-will thing. These people are free to be wrong - or right, who knows? I think Gods holding off on judgement day until the end, sort of thing.

That's arguable.

As God, he would simply be sending the message that choosing a particular course of action or system of beliefs will lead to your death-by-lightning. Does that remove free will? Do we lack free will because God forgot to make us lightning-proof?

Right now, a human who believes he can breath under water will end up dying if he tries to act on that belief...does that mean that God eliminated free will by neglecting to give us gills?


I think I'd give a lot of people momentary flashes of inspiration regarding advanced recycling technology. Rays of sunlight on pools of algae sort of thing. THen they can decide what to do with the inspiration given.

Oh crap, I believe that happens anyway.
Nice answer! Maybe make the flashes a bit more than "momentary," though...use some of the modern advertising psychology! You're God, after all, so you can get some big-named firm to explain how putting naked ladies next to a pool of algae will increase the consumer's interest in saving the environment. :P

welp the first thing that comes to my mind is this..

i would rebuild the temple in jerusalem to be a mosque, a synagogue and a cathedral. i would have a golden tablet inside that says something like "all good roads lead to heaven"

What? You're asking me to descend to the level of a deity, the scum of the immortal world? I'd prefer to stay as Ruler of the Omniverse and all Khoen Vanaar, thank you very much. ;)
You win the thread. :)

You win the thread. :)
W00t. I win something I always owned anyway. Gives one a special feeling, doesn't it? ;)

And why do I use that smilie so much? This is getting annoying. But not necessarily for me. XD

I'm going to assume that this is like the monkey's paw, and inform people how their Godly plans go disastrously wrong.
Well, that can be part of the game, but my buddy and I found that most of our plans seemed pretty free of flaw.

Well, that can be part of the game, but my buddy and I found that most of our plans seemed pretty free of flaw.

Maybe to your earthly minds.

I doubt they can stand the test of my divine intellect.

Maybe to your earthly minds.

I doubt they can stand the test of my divine intellect.
Pfft. I dare you to find flaw with chest cannons that shoot pies. :)

About this question as to why bad things happen to good people...do you suppose that at least in some cases, it's because we vonlunteered to take on difficult tasks before we were born or whatever? Maybe to like...learn lessons or grow or some such?

When you think about it, horrible though it might be to say, we learn our best lessons when we go through our worst times, don't we? Compassion, empathy, faith...ad infinitum.

A cure for AIDS.

Pfft. I dare you to find flaw with chest cannons that shoot pies. :)

Can't you imagine the international pie race that would occur? It would escalate from pumpkin to cherry to peach cobbler to Lemon Meringue. Before long you have a meringue winter on your hands.

About this question as to why bad things happen to good people...do you suppose that at least in some cases, it's because we vonlunteered to take on difficult tasks before we were born or whatever? Maybe to like...learn lessons or grow or some such?

When you think about it, horrible though it might be to say, we learn our best lessons when we go through our worst times, don't we? Compassion, empathy, faith...ad infinitum.
Yet, at the same time, there are plenty of horrid experiences that don't teach us anything we couldn't have learned otherwise. For instance, what necessary lesson is learned by a toddler who is sexually molested? Don't you think that an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God might have come up with a better way to teach that lesson?

If our pre-incarnated souls actually were demented enough to ask for some of the horrible suffering that is experienced on Earth, don't you think that an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God would talk us out of it? Don't you think She'd say, "Look, I know you want to learn and to grow, but you don't need to be raped, tortured, and murdered by a psychopath to learn that being raped, tortured, and murdered is really fucking shitty. Ain't no lesson you need to learn that would require that kind of insane suffering. Let's just get a beer and I'll lay it out for you in a way you can understand."

Can't you imagine the international pie race that would occur? It would escalate from pumpkin to cherry to peach cobbler to Lemon Meringue. Before long you have a meringue winter on your hands.
That is quite possibly the most delicious apocalypse ever proposed.

That is quite possibly the most delicious apocalypse ever proposed.

Kids will rejoice everywhere as all plant life is smothered and the human race must subsist off of their own arsenal and the constant meringue rain.

More food and more raw materials in developing countries, and more tools to extract them. Making it genetically impossible to haave more than 2 kids (God can alter genetics, right?) which should help to reduce overpopulation and poverty.

Changing the currents and windflow so that the pollutants a country spews out affect that country, not any others.

Aaand lastly....Make a giant jelly mountain for the poor people to eat and the kids who can't afford games to jump on. Mmmm jelly!

Kids will rejoice everywhere as all plant life is smothered and the human race must subsist off of their own arsenal and the constant meringue rain.

Well, that would have the flaw of tooth decay at least. . .

To be honest, I would give flashes of insight into my flock and convince them that if they truly want to follow me, they must develop their reason, not their irrational fear of eternal hellfire. The Guy I inherited this power from didn't give you the rational faculty so you could bury it under a load of anti-homosexual codswallop, I promise.

Before I went, however, I would probably also give flashes of insight into the women of the world that Xenophobialand really is a great guy and deserves a date or two to prove it. I'd imagine such self-interest is what more than anything else disqualifies me from the position, though.

I'd relocate everyone to heaven, with the intent of solving all worldly problems. But then the conservatives already there would get upset and try to build a wall to keep the incoming souls out, since this would compromise the sanctity of their citizenship. There would be a massive debate, and after much political sparring, the right wing majority would enact a new policy that would give amnesty to those who pass a multiple choice test of morality. Those deemed morally unfit would be expelled beyond the gate. Left in limbo, these souls would devise an elaborate system of tunnels under the wall, though a few would dig too deep and fall to the 5th level of hell. After enough of the exhiled sneak across the border, the "illegal" souls would obtain enough political clout to tear down the wall once and for all. Then, the absence of border security would allow Satan to send hell's army of demons in, which would harvest every last soul until his army became large enough to overthrow me, the president of heaven (aka god). My imortal head would be place on a stake in front of the now united kingdom of heaven and hell as a warning to those who would consider attempting to establish another fascist dictatorship as I, god, had done.

What would I do?

Nothing.

As an omnipotent, omniscient being, the concept of self disappears. I pretty much just sit there as all the little parts of me do whatever the heck they like.

Ok, Hots, what shall you do with your God-like powers?

(Remember, it should be something that is at least nominally aimed at IMPROVING the human condition.)

Right.

Pretty simple, really. There are a few things we humans need to have to handle our shit without all the...well...shit that happens.

1. Increased learning speed and knowledge storage capacity.
2. Increased control over internal functions and external expressions.

Both of these would enable humans to learn more about their world and prevent many of the tragedies, disasters, and environmental problems that occur. The increased self-control would allow them to manage their interactions with others to result in constructive interchanges rather than destructive ones.

The overall benefits to humanity would be immense, I think.

Alternatively, I would just make everyone perfect like me. That would be quicker. ;)

1. Increased learning speed and knowledge storage capacity.

Actually, I learned in my psychology class that one's memory has an unlimited storage capacity, the only problem is bring the information back out.

I think I would manifest a huge stack of guns in every country and watch the play unfold. Or maybe feed the hungry.

Actually, I learned in my psychology class that one's memory has an unlimited storage capacity, the only problem is bring the information back out.

??

??
A person can remember every single detail, with the exception of changes made by one's schema. Meaning you can memorize the entire dictionary in five languages, but you might not be able to bring it out of storage (i.e. like the couch in the back of a storage unit)

....at least, so I was told. Maybe education is getting more ridiculous every year.

A person can remember every single detail, with the exception of changes made by one's schema. Meaning you can memorize the entire dictionary in five languages, but you might not be able to bring it out of storage (i.e. like the couch in the back of a storage unit)

....at least, so I was told. Maybe education is getting more ridiculous every year.

I was told that too. Obviously, I don't believe it.

Edit: Of course even if it is true it would be relatively simple to modify my proposition to include perfect memory retrieval rather than greater memory.

Hmm... now that I've given more thought, as God I would give everyone the pinnochio-nose effect, maybe re-write the entire bible to... say... the Captain Underpants series (making it entirely more accurate, mind you), and creating the perfect food, something like a fat-ass burrito that has the nutrition values of a bowl of Total.

Of course even if it is true it would be relatively simple to modify my proposition to include perfect memory retrieval rather than greater memory.
I gotcha. Just sayin'.

I was told that too. Obviously, I don't believe it.

Edit: Of course even if it is true it would be relatively simple to modify my proposition to include perfect memory retrieval rather than greater memory.

I had to read a book of case studies for psychology class called "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat And Other Clinical Tales" and in it there's this story about these two real life severly mentally retarded twins who were famous for a short time because even though they had no concept of what they were saying meant, they could recall in detail every single day of their lives from like 5 onwards, what they did, what day of the week it was, what they ate, who talked to them and what they said without any need to stop and think about it. They could even tell you what day of the week it would be on a date in a 1,000 some odd years and months (for example: someone would say August 31st, 3012 or December 12th 1856, or something eqaually random) and after it was checked, it was always found out to be right, even thoigh there's no equation for such thing that anyone as severly mentally retarded as the two of them could possibly figure out (they had no concept of math whatsoever, they couldn't add or subtract, and I believe they were even tested with a lie detecter a few times to see if maybe, somehow the things wrong with their brain didn't matter or something, but it always came out they were telling the truth). Time and time again doctors tested them, kept detailed diaries on the events of their lives and locked them in places where they could never find it or hope to open it, and still they'd remember every detail accuratly. Eventually though I think I remember they died from heart failure or something (I believe the reason they were so messed up is because they were born really prematurly or something).

But anyways, that kinda proves that it's possible to remember more than any of us do but science still hasn't found the answer (and would we want to, anyways? We'd probably all live in absolute fear if we remembered every hurt, and every embarrsment and everything we ever did wrong).

We'd probably all live in absolute fear if we remembered every hurt, and every embarrsment and everything we ever did wrong.
Not according to Freud!