NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTRY: At last! A reporter willing to tell the whole truth, not what will just sell newspapers!


In his speech, author illustrates war's reality (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=102676&ran=69074)


By KATE WILTROUT, The Virginian-Pilot
April 7, 2006

VIRGINIA BEACH - Karl Zinsmeister didn't set out to be a filmmaker, or write comic books. Until three years ago, he was editor of a conservative magazine, living in a tiny town in upstate New York.

Then he went to Iraq as an embedded reporter with the 82nd Airborne. Since then, he's returned to Iraq three times, written two books about the war, penned the text for a Marvel comic about the military and filmed a documentary about U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

Zinsmeister spoke Thursday night at the Virginia Beach campus of Tidewater Community College, closing out TCC's annual Literary Festival. He showed 28 minutes of the film "Warriors," which will air on public television stations in 2007.

Asked to make the film by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Zinsmeister - who had no previous experience working with videotape - couldn't say no.

"I decided to take it on for one reason," he said. "I felt like it was a golden opportunity to correct some national misperceptions that really bother me."

Chief among them: that many U.S. service members joined the military because they had few other options, that they are brutes without marketable skills and that they serve in Iraq reluctantly.

Zinsmeister said he found the opposite is true, and he regrets what he called a growing "cultural gap between the people who fight our wars and the people who write about it."

Clips from his film illustrate his point that U.S. soldiers do far more than shoot. Every day, they navigate wary markets looking for weapons sellers amid fruit and fish merchants.

They pull over suspicious cars and try, without dishonoring the occupants, to determine whether a person dressed as a woman really is one. They sit down over tea with a sheik and ask him to give his word that two men in custody won't become insurgents if they're released.

"This is pretty humdrum, pedestrian, everyday responsibilities," Zinsmeister told the audience of about 90. But in Iraq, "even those humdrum things are complicated. It takes diplomatic skills, people skills."

Editor of The American Enterprise, a magazine published by a Washington -based institute of the same name, Zinsmeister wrote two books about his earlier embedding experiences: "Boots on the Ground" and "Dawn over Baghdad."

Both were a result of the Department of Defense's program that allows journalists almost unfettered access to military units. "I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide," he said.

Zinsmeister said he wished that more journalists were still taking advantage of the opportunity to watch soldiers and Marines do their work

"They're not perfect. They're certainly not all saints and scholars," Zinsmeister said of the modern G.I. Joes and Janes.

But in his 4-1/2 months in Iraq, the writer said, he found U.S. troops represent American values well.

Highlighting the soldiers' workaday routines might not be considered "news," Zinsmeister said. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered.

"I think in the long run, this is really important," he said. "This is what historians are going to care about."

Exactly!

Predicted reply:

"Neocon Propoganda"

*applauds*

About damn time.

I like glorifications of the military. They remind of olden times.

edit: Just read it a second time, and had to laugh quite hard about '"I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide,"'.

Chief among them: that many U.S. service members joined the military because they had few other options, that they are brutes without marketable skills and that they serve in Iraq reluctantly.

Zinsmeister said he found the opposite is true, and he regrets what he called a growing "cultural gap between the people who fight our wars and the people who write about it.

I would like to see the results of his survey.

My gut tells me that all I will get is a few anecdotal accounts of kids who always wanted to be a soldier.

EDIT: I do like the apologist implication that, because they wanted to be in the military, they should be in Iraq.

i look forward to seeing the actual film

i am dismayed by the number of people who seem to believe that the only people who serve in the military are those who have been forced in by dire poverty or have been duped by recruiters.

do only chumps believe in serving their country now?

COMMENTRY: At last! A reporter willing to tell the whole truth, not what will just sell newspapers!

Damn those capitalists!

Meh ... I'm still not impressed.

Geraldo Rivera giving away the position of the troops he was with by drawing a map on international television ... now *that* was impressive.

I'm still laughing about that one.

Meh ... I'm still not impressed.

Geraldo Rivera giving away the position of the troops he was with by drawing a map on international television ... now *that* was impressive.

I'm still laughing about that one.

And the fact that there was no noticeable sign that the Iraqi military capitalized on the information provided to the public by Geraldo says something too.

Chief among them: that many U.S. service members joined the military because they had few other options, that they are brutes without marketable skills and that they serve in Iraq reluctantly.


And yet the Sargent of the Unit I sent some packages said most of his "kids" were from broken homes that joined up to try and make a better life for themselves.

Hmmm is he implying that they are all "HELLYA" I am happy to be here?

I've always appreciated the men and women in the US military regardless of their reasons for joining. I'm sure that, like police or any other position that requires the conveyance of authority to perform their duties, the vast majority are trustworthy of that position. This does not in any way, however, speak to the worthiness of this war and the competence with which it has been fought. I hope every man and women from teh armed forces of every nation involved do whatever is necessary to protect themselves and each other and, though I recognize it is futile, it continues to be my wish that they all come home safe and healthy.

having said that, we shouldn't be fighting this war and, now that we are, it is tragic that the most incompetent administration the US has ever seen is at the helm.

And yet the Sargent of the Unit I sent some packages said most of his "kids" were from broken homes that joined up to try and make a better life for themselves.

Hmmm is he implying that they are all "HELLYA" I am happy to be here?

I imagine the truth is a mix of both extremes.

Hmmm is he implying that they are all "HELLYA" I am happy to be here?

Forrest is implying that everyone over at Iraq is a gung ho John Wayne wannabe, and he'll probably try to imply in addition that the Abu Ghraib scandal and the rampant sectarian violence on the brink of civil war are all Liberal Propaganda designed to bolster Al Qaeda.

I would like to see the results of his survey.

My gut tells me that all I will get is a few anecdotal accounts of kids who always wanted to be a soldier.

EDIT: I do like the apologist implication that, because they wanted to be in the military, they should be in Iraq.
What survey? Who said anything about a "survey?"

What "apologist implicantion?" You sure you read the same article I posted???

I like glorifications of the military. They remind of olden times.

edit: Just read it a second time, and had to laugh quite hard about '"I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide,"'.
[ Invites the n00b to take a long walk off a short pier. ]

i look forward to seeing the actual film

i am dismayed by the number of people who seem to believe that the only people who serve in the military are those who have been forced in by dire poverty or have been duped by recruiters.

do only chumps believe in serving their country now?
Nope. The average age, education level, etc. are far higher now than when I was in.

Glorification? Soldiers are people too. They vote, they eat, they sleep, they raise families. They are in a profession where they have to spend long times away from friends and loved ones, where they are under threat to life and limb and are trained to respond in a manner calculated to defend themselves and their comrades.

To be honest, considering all the invective a very few people somehow manage to throw their way, a couple of people who find soldiers in some way impressive shouldn't be regarded as anything other than a tiny element of balance. There certainly is a cultural divide between the modern soldier and the modern civilian, a divide that shouldn't exist. These are our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers. Offer them at the very least an attempt at empathy if you cannot manage respect.

What survey? Who said anything about a "survey?"

I would expect a survey if he wants to disprove these misconceptions. I mean anyone could relate stories about soldiers who joined from patriotic fervor. I want some hard evidence that there is a misconception.

What "apologist implicantion?" You sure you read the same article I posted???

What is the point of proving that few soldiers joined to serve their country, and not because it was the most financially viable career available to them?

Forrest is implying that everyone over at Iraq is a gung ho John Wayne wannabe, and he'll probably try to imply in addition that the Abu Ghraib scandal and the rampant sectarian violence on the brink of civil war are all Liberal Propaganda designed to bolster Al Qaeda.
Not at all. What I'm "impying" is that reality-challenged, duplicious dweebs with faux-French names are incapable of pulling cranium from fourth point of contact long enough to become even minmally rational.

[ Invites the n00b to take a long walk off a short pier. ]

Meh. You´re old. You die first.

Not at all. What I'm "impying" is that reality-challenged, duplicious dweebs with faux-French names are incapable of pulling cranium from fourth point of contact long enough to become even minmally rational.

Eutrusca, you are a delight.

Not at all. What I'm "impying" is that reality-challenged, duplicious dweebs with faux-French names are incapable of pulling cranium from fourth point of contact long enough to become even minmally rational.

And you can't even keep your own vows to "ignore" certain posters time after time either Forrest. And calling me reality challenged? There you go projecting again.

Not to mention yet again you reach for Ad Hominem Attacks as your way of weasling out of the points made.

:rolleyes:

Nope. The average age, education level, etc. are far higher now than when I was in.

I would imagine that the same holds for every profession.

wait, so there aren't people who joined the military to make a better life for themselves? The reporters that make such claims are liars tryign to sell papers? Why would the media spread liberal lies to sell papers in a country where the supposed majority of voters voted for a conservative?

Are you making the claim that there is no doubt that the majority of people serving are doing so to serve their country? Can you verify this? One reporter says somethign you like and so of course it can only be the Gods honest truth.

I laugh.

I would imagine that the same holds for every profession.

That´s the fun thing about complicating environments, they challenge their inhabitants in more and complex ways, thus raising said their ability to interact, dubbed "intelligence" by some.

But Woe unto the libruhl not seeing the truth, i.e. the great achievemnts of the Bush administration.

Actualy as much as this seems just like propaganda to me I actualy enjoy it. Sense this is the "real" millitary I will stop feeling entitled to give them any props or special treatment when they come out of the military. (like some have been proposing)

Sense they are knowingly choosing this lifestyle I feel no compulsion to change civilian policies to make up for the deficiencies this lifestyle brings.

They are more then welcome to serve in the military if they choose to do so ... they also have to live with the consequences of that choice.

Actualy as much as this seems just like propaganda to me I actualy enjoy it. Sense this is the "real" millitary I will stop feeling entitled to give them any props or special treatment when they come out of the military. (like some have been proposing)

Sense they are knowingly choosing this lifestyle I feel no compulsion to change civilian policies to make up for the deficiencies this lifestyle brings.

They are more then welcome to serve in the military if they choose to do so ... they also have to live with the consequences of that choice.

Yeah, they chose that lifestyle so they should stop bitching about not having enough personal protection, looking over their shoulders for another ambush or having their pensions and health care benefits slashed by Dear Leader. After all they're there to serve their country, not better their own lives.

I'm glad that these days, civilians don't hate those who have served in the military like they did during Vietnam. Maybe if it was like this during Vietnam, some of those guys would have gotten the help they needed, with shellshock, and whatnot.

edit: Just read it a second time, and had to laugh quite hard about '"I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide,"'.

I loled, too. So delusional.

Yeah, they chose that lifestyle so they should stop bitching about not having enough personal protection, looking over their shoulders for another ambush or having their pensions and health care benefits slashed by Dear Leader. After all they're there to serve their country, not better their own lives.
No thoes are IN military

I was specificaly talking about civilian modifications
(such as requiring company A to give prefference to jon because he served in the millitary)

Anything such as pensions or after discharge healthcare that is tied to the military is not really a civilian modification (at least not ment to be in my origional statement)

I'm glad that these days, civilians don't hate those who have served in the military like they did during Vietnam. Maybe if it was like this during Vietnam, some of those guys would have gotten the help they needed, with shellshock, and whatnot.

Not to mention Forrest wouldn't have this delusional belief that anyone who doesn't fellate the military and the Bush Administration are all soldier-hating soldier-spitting Commie Liberal Al Qaeda Cell Members.

Eutrusca, you are a delight.
I try. ;)

That´s the fun thing about complicating environments, they challenge their inhabitants in more and complex ways, thus raising said their ability to interact, dubbed "intelligence" by some.

But Woe unto the libruhl not seeing the truth, i.e. the great achievemnts of the Bush administration.
Screw the Bush Administration! I'm talking about the frakking article, you twit! :p

Screw the Bush Administration! I'm talking about the frakking article, you twit! :p

Sorry, I forgot the invasion in Iraq was a military decision made by generals, not a political one.
How did these soldiers get to be there again, so they are able to show they are humanitarian and only ever kill when utterly necessary?

edit: And how did you know I collect insults? Thanks a lot for such an original one...

Sorry, I forgot the invasion in Iraq was a military decision made by generals, not a political one.
How did these soldiers get to be there again, so they are able to show they are humanitarian and only ever kill when utterly necessary?

edit: And how did you know I collect insults? Thanks a lot for such an original one...
Thank you for that totally irrelevant post. Just what I always wanted. :rolleyes:

COMMENTRY: At last! A reporter willing to tell the whole truth, not what will just sell newspapers!


In his speech, author illustrates war's reality (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=102676&ran=69074)


By KATE WILTROUT, The Virginian-Pilot
April 7, 2006

VIRGINIA BEACH - Karl Zinsmeister didn't set out to be a filmmaker, or write comic books. Until three years ago, he was editor of a conservative magazine, living in a tiny town in upstate New York.

Then he went to Iraq as an embedded reporter with the 82nd Airborne. Since then, he's returned to Iraq three times, written two books about the war, penned the text for a Marvel comic about the military and filmed a documentary about U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

Zinsmeister spoke Thursday night at the Virginia Beach campus of Tidewater Community College, closing out TCC's annual Literary Festival. He showed 28 minutes of the film "Warriors," which will air on public television stations in 2007.

Asked to make the film by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Zinsmeister - who had no previous experience working with videotape - couldn't say no.

"I decided to take it on for one reason," he said. "I felt like it was a golden opportunity to correct some national misperceptions that really bother me."

Chief among them: that many U.S. service members joined the military because they had few other options, that they are brutes without marketable skills and that they serve in Iraq reluctantly.

Zinsmeister said he found the opposite is true, and he regrets what he called a growing "cultural gap between the people who fight our wars and the people who write about it."

Clips from his film illustrate his point that U.S. soldiers do far more than shoot. Every day, they navigate wary markets looking for weapons sellers amid fruit and fish merchants.

They pull over suspicious cars and try, without dishonoring the occupants, to determine whether a person dressed as a woman really is one. They sit down over tea with a sheik and ask him to give his word that two men in custody won't become insurgents if they're released.

"This is pretty humdrum, pedestrian, everyday responsibilities," Zinsmeister told the audience of about 90. But in Iraq, "even those humdrum things are complicated. It takes diplomatic skills, people skills."

Editor of The American Enterprise, a magazine published by a Washington -based institute of the same name, Zinsmeister wrote two books about his earlier embedding experiences: "Boots on the Ground" and "Dawn over Baghdad."

Both were a result of the Department of Defense's program that allows journalists almost unfettered access to military units. "I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide," he said.

Zinsmeister said he wished that more journalists were still taking advantage of the opportunity to watch soldiers and Marines do their work

"They're not perfect. They're certainly not all saints and scholars," Zinsmeister said of the modern G.I. Joes and Janes.

But in his 4-1/2 months in Iraq, the writer said, he found U.S. troops represent American values well.

Highlighting the soldiers' workaday routines might not be considered "news," Zinsmeister said. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered.

"I think in the long run, this is really important," he said. "This is what historians are going to care about."

Exactly!

truth is in the eyes of the beholder yes i realise this is not the proper saying, i'm just adapting it for my own purposes. what you are seeing as a reporter finally telling the truth about the war, i see as yet another example of selective representation of the facts which is nigh on impossible to avoid in journalism or any other field, even the pure sciences.

i do know several people in or about to join the military who want to be there and always have but they're going to be officers which doesn't really count. in the bar i work in there were several squaddies on a night out before going out to iraq and they were wanting to go, but they were wanting to go because they wanted "to kill me some iraqis" :eek: . i realise they are by no means representative of all the troops out there but they were a big group. i dont think anyone in this country at least really thinks thay are fighting for their country simply because the war hasn't been presented like that over here. so if they want to go they have a desire to act as a 'world police' or they want to kill. either feeling is severely misguided imho.

Does it bother anyone else that this also comes in comic book form?

i do know several people in or about to join the military who want to be there and always have but they're going to be officers which doesn't really count. in the bar i work in there were several squaddies on a night out before going out to iraq and they were wanting to go, but they were wanting to go because they wanted "to kill me some iraqis" :eek: . i realise they are by no means representative of all the troops out there but they were a big group. i dont think anyone in this country at least really thinks thay are fighting for their country simply because the war hasn't been presented like that over here. so if they want to go they have a desire to act as a 'world police' or they want to kill. either feeling is severely misguided imho.
See ... there's this device in communication that you use when trying to drive home a point, trying to get someone's attention, or when you're trying to build up your courage. It's called "hyperbole." It means overstating your case.

Does it bother anyone else that this also comes in comic book form?
Nope.

Any particular reason why it should?

Nope.

Any particular reason why it should?

You don't think that trivializes it a bit? A marvel comic?

You don't think that trivializes it a bit? A marvel comic?

Of course not! All serious news should be in comic-form. It makes it easier to understand...like Fox.

Thank you for that totally irrelevant post. Just what I always wanted. :rolleyes:

I wonder what´s more irrelevant than an irrelevant post?
I was trying to... nevermind, if I have to do the thinking for you, I rather do it in a pub and have fun at the same time, instead of being pwnd by such an intelligent, 1337 gentleman.

See ... there's this device in communication that you use when trying to drive home a point, trying to get someone's attention, or when you're trying to build up your courage. It's called "hyperbole." It means overstating your case.

that's not hyperbole, that's anecdotes. and i did acknowledge that they weren't representative of all the troops in iraq. the main point of my post was to challenge you're idea of 'truth' seeing as you seem to regard truth as being reports which have similar sypathies to yours. my 'truth' is based on my experiences and is no more valid or close to 'reality' than yours, but i've never presented a subjectively produced article from a newspaper of all things as the truth. if my post was hyperbole then your OP was mind-bogglingly naive and foolish (now that's hyperbole).

I try. ;)

I know ya do.

COMMENTRY:

They pull over suspicious cars and try, without dishonoring the occupants, to determine whether a person dressed as a woman really is one. ]

...by bending them over and ramming a "light stick" up their ass in front of their Husbands until he confesses to being the missing Al Qaeda link...

COMMENTRY:
They sit down over tea with a sheik and ask him to give his word that two men in custody won't become insurgents if they're released.]

"if" being the operative word. The follow-up conversation probably contained phrases like "looked like that when we found them" and "may pass a watch with these initials on it in the next bowel movement or two".

I

<snip>

Oh, a cynical one.

COMMENTRY: At last! A reporter willing to tell the whole truth, not what will just sell newspapers!

By KATE WILTROUT, The Virginian-Pilot
April 7, 2006

VIRGINIA BEACH - Karl Zinsmeister didn't set out to be a filmmaker, or write comic books. Until three years ago, he was editor of a conservative magazine, living in a tiny town in upstate New York.

*Yawn*

Thus the guy is discredited in the introductory paragraph. If he was a big cheese at a media outfit which wore its politics on its sleeve, doubting his every word is a necessary policy.

COMMENTRY: At last! A reporter willing to tell the whole truth, not what will just sell newspapers!


In his speech, author illustrates war's reality (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=102676&ran=69074)


By KATE WILTROUT, The Virginian-Pilot
April 7, 2006

VIRGINIA BEACH - Karl Zinsmeister didn't set out to be a filmmaker, or write comic books. Until three years ago, he was editor of a conservative magazine, living in a tiny town in upstate New York.

Then he went to Iraq as an embedded reporter with the 82nd Airborne. Since then, he's returned to Iraq three times, written two books about the war, penned the text for a Marvel comic about the military and filmed a documentary about U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

Zinsmeister spoke Thursday night at the Virginia Beach campus of Tidewater Community College, closing out TCC's annual Literary Festival. He showed 28 minutes of the film "Warriors," which will air on public television stations in 2007.

Asked to make the film by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Zinsmeister - who had no previous experience working with videotape - couldn't say no.

"I decided to take it on for one reason," he said. "I felt like it was a golden opportunity to correct some national misperceptions that really bother me."

Chief among them: that many U.S. service members joined the military because they had few other options, that they are brutes without marketable skills and that they serve in Iraq reluctantly.

Zinsmeister said he found the opposite is true, and he regrets what he called a growing "cultural gap between the people who fight our wars and the people who write about it."

Clips from his film illustrate his point that U.S. soldiers do far more than shoot. Every day, they navigate wary markets looking for weapons sellers amid fruit and fish merchants.

They pull over suspicious cars and try, without dishonoring the occupants, to determine whether a person dressed as a woman really is one. They sit down over tea with a sheik and ask him to give his word that two men in custody won't become insurgents if they're released.

"This is pretty humdrum, pedestrian, everyday responsibilities," Zinsmeister told the audience of about 90. But in Iraq, "even those humdrum things are complicated. It takes diplomatic skills, people skills."

Editor of The American Enterprise, a magazine published by a Washington -based institute of the same name, Zinsmeister wrote two books about his earlier embedding experiences: "Boots on the Ground" and "Dawn over Baghdad."

Both were a result of the Department of Defense's program that allows journalists almost unfettered access to military units. "I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide," he said.

Zinsmeister said he wished that more journalists were still taking advantage of the opportunity to watch soldiers and Marines do their work

"They're not perfect. They're certainly not all saints and scholars," Zinsmeister said of the modern G.I. Joes and Janes.

But in his 4-1/2 months in Iraq, the writer said, he found U.S. troops represent American values well.

Highlighting the soldiers' workaday routines might not be considered "news," Zinsmeister said. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered.

"I think in the long run, this is really important," he said. "This is what historians are going to care about."

Exactly!
Where is the truth you promised?

You don't think that trivializes it a bit? A marvel comic?

I don't see how it would.

Maus was a graphic novel, which no one has suggested that it trivialized the Holocaust. There have been comics made of soldiers' memoirs, and no one seems to claim that those are trivializing the comflict that those soldiers fought in.

So, how, exactly, would such a comic trivialize what American soldiers in Iraq are doing?

Of course not! All serious news should be in comic-form. It makes it easier to understand...like Fox.
:D

Stern, but fair (and balanced).

Karl Zinsmeister didn't set out to be a filmmaker, or write comic books. Until three years ago, he was editor of a conservative magazine.......

Both were a result of the Department of Defense's program that allows journalists almost unfettered access to military units. "I'm very proud to be from a country where we feel we have nothing to hide," he said.
And with these two pieces of information, the rest of the article is deflated.

How this one article somehow represents "the truth", is beyond me.

I think that in the 82nd Airborne you are going to have different opinions on their duty in Iraq than in regular Army units or Reserve Army units. Elite units have better morale because they are made up of the keener soldiers who sought out more challenging duties. That doesn’t make their opinions any less valid, just that this should be taken into account before generalizing about the rest of the Military.

I recommend for a great read, “The Last True Story I’ll Ever Tell”, by John Crawford. It’s written by a US soldier who served in Iraq and I think it’s a good read on what’s going on over there.

The Bruce

Where is the truth you promised?
It is Eutrusca truth - it says the military and the US government is always right and leftists are wrong.

I skimmed over the "used to be a writer for a conservative magazine" but I got suspicious when I read "Department of Defense program giving journalists almost unfettered access to military units." My bullshit detectors went off because the only reason that would happen is if the program was the usual propaganda case with embedded journalists they knew would only say good things about them.

Highlighting the soldiers' workaday routines might not be considered "news," Zinsmeister said. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered.

"I think in the long run, this is really important," he said. "This is what historians are going to care about."
I can tell you one thing for sure - Zinsmeister failed history. Now, anthropologists might give a crap about that.

i look forward to seeing the actual film

i am dismayed by the number of people who seem to believe that the only people who serve in the military are those who have been forced in by dire poverty or have been duped by recruiters.

do only chumps believe in serving their country now?

I have one friend in the armed forces who is a brilliant kid who is working for computers in a high-tech field that can become his career later on. I also know about 4-5 others from my school that joined the army/marines because they had nowhere else to go. It doesn't mean they lack character or anything, but there still is such a group.