NationStates Jolt Archive

A German town trying to become the "Cultural Capital of Europe" laid a large swastika into a cobblestone street last year. Well I guess it's part of Nazi culture.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1793966.html?menu=

It appears from the story that this was not done officialy. It implies that the workers laying the paving did this of their own accord.

The fact that it took four months for anyone to notice or complain is astounding though.

It appears from the story that this was not done officialy. It implies that the workers laying the paving did this of their own accord.

The fact that it took four months for anyone to notice or complain is astounding though.
People had to notice it, unless it was so big it covered several streets.

Damn. Oh well, guess I'll go sweep out the nuclear fallout shelter...here comes WWIII...

People had to notice it, unless it was so big it covered several streets.

Apparently it was on a pedestrian precinct. Now I don't know where you live, but I will bet that there is at least one pedestrian precinct there. What pattern is on the pavement in that precinct? Tell me now - without going and looking.

People often fail to notice things that are in front of them. (Me included.)

Some UK convicts being forced to do community service were taken the the side of a motorway to plant flowers on the embankment. When spring came, the words 'shit' and 'fuck' bloomed, several feet high. :p

Anything you can do, we can do better!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/Doveofwar/281934-swastika.jpg

Anything you can do, we can do better!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/Doveofwar/281934-swastika.jpg
Lol. That's a nice building.

Anyway, people shouldn't make such a fuss about swastika's anymore. Yes, a horrible system used this symbol a lot, but it just is a nicely shaped symbol, why not use it? Because there are bad memories attacjed to it? Well, grow up and get over it.

Are we gonna ban the use of flowers too if a country decides to defile human rights and happens to have chosen a flower as a national symbol?

Anyway, people shouldn't make such a fuss about swastika's anymore. Yes, a horrible system used this symbol a lot, but it just is a nicely shaped symbol, why not use it? Because there are bad memories attacjed to it? Well, grow up and get over it.Cute. You have no idea what you're talking about, so please refrain from bitching about things you cannot begin to comprehend. "Bad memories" is reason enough.
Are we gonna ban the use of flowers too if a country decides to defile human rights and happens to have chosen a flower as a national symbol?If it manages to take the whole world into it, gets decisively defeated, then perhaps we should ban the particular depicton of that symbol. Stupid analogy though, since swastikas tend not to grow in the wild.

Stupid analogy though, since swastikas tend not to grow in the wild.

Looked through old threads, saw this, had to post it:
http://www.theregister.com/2005/07/18/forest_swastika.jpg

OMG natural swastika...technically not, but it's been there for over fifty years and no one noticed because it was in East Germany where private plane operation was extremely limited.

Looked through old threads, saw this, had to post it:
http://www.theregister.com/2005/07/18/forest_swastika.jpg

OMG natural swastika...technically not, but it's been there for over fifty years and no one noticed because it was in East Germany where private plane operation was extremely limited.:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:


Double :rolleyes:. I'm feeling churlish today...

Double :rolleyes:. I'm feeling churlish today...That's ok. I'm feeling irratable. ;)

Cute. You have no idea what you're talking about, so please refrain from bitching about things you cannot begin to comprehend.
Cute. Your limited mental capabilities obviously prevent you from seeing how I could actually be right.

"Bad memories" is reason enough.
No, it is not. Holding grudges only slows progress.


If it manages to take the whole world into it, gets decisively defeated, then perhaps we should ban the particular depicton of that symbol. Stupid analogy though, since swastikas tend not to grow in the wild.

As posted before ("http://www.theregister.com/2005/07/1...t_swastika.jpg). So, come again?

Cute. Your limited mental capabilities obviously prevent you from seeing how I could actually be right.


No, it is not. Holding grudges only slows progress.Perchance you would have statues erected to child molesters in places their victims have to pass by daily? Would that help them get over their grudges and towards progress?

You don't need to be insulted seeing someone wave a flag under which millions were murdered, but you do need to respect the right of others to tear that flag down.
As posted before ("http://www.theregister.com/2005/07/1...t_swastika.jpg). So, come again?Even if that picture isn't photoshopped (Who knows, maybe it is real), does that mean swastikas commonly grow in the wild? Unless you can find conclusive evidence that this happens a lot, you haven't really disproven my statement, as you may have noticed the "tend" in it.

You don't need to be insulted seeing someone wave a flag under which millions were murdered, but you do need to respect the right of others to tear that flag down.
See. And for some reason people are still upset when the star bangled banner get's burned.

See. And for some reason people are still upset when the star bangled banner get's burned.
Hey, the American flag hasn't always been used to symbolise evil. In fact, when has it ever? The trail of Tears was all thanks to a rednecked asshole who got elected. Plus, when you think of major allied participants in WWII, America almost always comes to mind, along with Great Britian, the USSR, and possibly France.

The swastika, on the other hand, is commonly used for racist purposes. It comes to symbolise not only one of the most sophisticated and brutal killing campaigns ever, but anti-semitism in general. What does thirteen stripes and 50 stars symbolise? Capitalism without an ecomony-damaging socialism campaign? The "evil" conservatives who are evil enough to disagree with you?

It's all about symbolism. There's almost never anything anti-racist goping on under the nazi flag. The same can NOT be said about the US flag. Name one unisolated instance where the nazi symbolhas been used to symbolise anything other than hate(and anti-establishment).

Apparently it was on a pedestrian precinct. Now I don't know where you live, but I will bet that there is at least one pedestrian precinct there. What pattern is on the pavement in that precinct? Tell me now - without going and looking.

People often fail to notice things that are in front of them. (Me included.)
There is one in Trenton. It's just plain red bricks on the ground. I think I'd notice a swastika. I was in a church for a friend's wedding once, and I noticed small tiles depicting swastikas on the floor. It's not something hard to notice.

Hey, the American flag hasn't always been used to symbolise evil. In fact, when has it ever? The trail of Tears was all thanks to a rednecked asshole who got elected. Plus, when you think of major allied participants in WWII, America almost always comes to mind, along with Great Britian, the USSR, and possibly France.

So. That rednecked asshole that got elected didn't represent the nation and it's policies? I think he did. And there are numerouse other occasions. Iraq just beeing the newest.

The swastika, on the other hand, is commonly used for racist purposes. It comes to symbolise not only one of the most sophisticated and brutal killing campaigns ever, but anti-semitism in general.
True. To an extend. It's not the Nazi banner beeing forbidden I disagree with. It's the whole hiss around the swastika itself in general.

What does thirteen stripes and 50 stars symbolise? Capitalism without an ecomony-damaging socialism campaign? The "evil" conservatives who are evil enough to disagree with you?
They represent the USA. Which is evil enough.


It's all about symbolism. There's almost never anything anti-racist goping on under the nazi flag. The same can NOT be said about the US flag. Name one unisolated instance where the nazi symbolhas been used to symbolise anything other than hate(and anti-establishment).
Vae victis. The victors decide. Oh.
And the swastika is a symbol for good luck. In case you didn't knew that.

Hey, the American flag hasn't always been used to symbolise evil. In fact, when has it ever? The trail of Tears was all thanks to a rednecked asshole who got elected. Plus, when you think of major allied participants in WWII, America almost always comes to mind, along with Great Britian, the USSR, and possibly France.

The swastika, on the other hand, is commonly used for racist purposes. It comes to symbolise not only one of the most sophisticated and brutal killing campaigns ever, but anti-semitism in general. What does thirteen stripes and 50 stars symbolise? Capitalism without an ecomony-damaging socialism campaign? The "evil" conservatives who are evil enough to disagree with you?

It's all about symbolism. There's almost never anything anti-racist goping on under the nazi flag. The same can NOT be said about the US flag. Name one unisolated instance where the nazi symbolhas been used to symbolise anything other than hate(and anti-establishment).

Swastika's and alike symbols can actually be found throughout history used in mosaics, wall paintings, engravements and the like. This just comes to show that there is a general fondness for the symbol.

I'm just saying, it's only a symbol. It's been over 60 years since the nazi's we're around in full power and people should not directly associate a swastika with nazism. You and all those people with you that constantly state 'swastika = nazism' are merely raping an otherwise pretty nice symbol.

No, the nazi's and what they have done should never be forgotten, of course not. But we should not desperatly cling to the swastika-nazi relationship. That is just foolhardily.

Cute. Your limited mental capabilities obviously prevent you from seeing how I could actually be right.


No, it is not. Holding grudges only slows progress.




As posted before ("http://www.theregister.com/2005/07/1...t_swastika.jpg). So, come again?
As you obvously have had no personal experiance with the Nazi bastards, you do not know what your talking about, no offense (no, I wasn't alive, but family was).

As you obvously have had no personal experiance with the Nazi bastards, you do not know what your talking about, no offense (no, I wasn't alive, but family was).

Heh. So you've had no personal experience with the nazi's either. I guess that means you don't know what you're talking about either.

Tool.

Heh. So you've had no personal experience with the nazi's either. I guess that means you don't know what you're talking about either.

Tool.
My grandfather was in a concentration camp, so I suggest you rethink insulting me for not having "personal" experiance.

(going for the YTMND reference here...)
OMG, secret Nazi cobblestone! :D

Hey, the American flag hasn't always been used to symbolise evil. In fact, when has it ever? The trail of Tears was all thanks to a rednecked asshole who got elected.
You mean like the Nazis?

But seriously though, "Indians baaaddd" was the federal policy for a long damn time.

A German town trying to become the "Cultural Capital of Europe" laid a large swastika into a cobblestone street last year. Well I guess it's part of Nazi culture.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1793966.html?menu=

Europe is so degenerate. I am (or perhaps was) of the mode of thought that the EU would end up as one of the three near-future superpowers, (along with the US and PRC) but every new pathetic piece of news increases my doubts.

Rabid economic protectionism is rampant and in the process of breaking down the continental economic and political league that could be their ticket to true strength, the French are so stupid and self-destructively socialistic it's depressing, Italy couldn't free itself of rule-by-Catholicism if it wanted to, they're all getting mixed up in under the table business deals with nations like Iran and pre-war Iraq, and they're so petty and disorganized that they're vaunted union is already falling apart from the inside before they've even adopted a Constitution.

In a word: losers. And they wonder why the US has ended up the global economic giant and lone superpower, and why our power in the economic and political spheres outstrips theirs. Instead of evolving into countries like the US and adopting the new most successful paradigm, they became a screwed-up mix of unchanged old-world, old-guard legacy policies, customs, laws, and power structures, and autodestructive, self-crippling, economy-killing socialistic crap. I respect their history, their natural and manmade wonders, their cultures, but their political and economic systems need to be garbaged.

My grandfather was in a concentration camp, so I suggest you rethink insulting me for not having "personal" experiance.

Ignore immaturity. Reacting angrily encourages enfant provocateurs and other rude posters. Be like Buddha.

I don't remember if I posted it here before, but I got a sudoku game on my old phone, and the already filled in numbers on the board made a swastika.
Pic 1 (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/NaziSudoku.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/NaziSudoku2.jpg)Swastika highlighted.

So, swastikas are everywhere.

And the swastika is a symbol for good luck. In case you didn't knew that.
To be technically correct, the swastika is an ancient indian fortress design that's been stylized.

Europe is so degenerate. I am (or perhaps was) of the mode of thought that the EU would end up as one of the three near-future superpowers, (along with the US and PRC) but every new pathetic piece of news increases my doubts.

You're funny.

Y'know, rampant anti-semitism was a prominent element of Nazism too, it sure is nice that we've stamped that out everywhere in a paranoid fit of irrationality. Oh, hey, looks like Netflix finally got around to sending me the Passion of the Christ.

Anyway, my point is that if you're going to be scared of the style and let the substance pass, you're the slightest bit crazy, and if you're going to clamp down on the substance with an iron fist, you're the slightest bit fascist. Hm, fascism, the Nazis were fond of that too weren't they?

Y'know, rampant anti-semitism was a prominent element of Nazism too, it sure is nice that we've stamped that out everywhere in a paranoid fit of irrationality. Oh, hey, looks like Netflix finally got around to sending me the Passion of the Christ.

Anyway, my point is that if you're going to be scared of the style and let the substance pass, you're the slightest bit crazy, and if you're going to clamp down on the substance with an iron fist, you're the slightest bit fascist. Hm, fascism, the Nazis were fond of that too weren't they?

Ah HA!

So you are American!

Jacque Clauseu....(butchered then slaughtered his name...I know it) you've done it again!

Fiddley-winks, are you JEWish?

There is one in Trenton. It's just plain red bricks on the ground. I think I'd notice a swastika.
Here's the deal: It didn't say what sort of thing it was...perhaps it was laid down out of stones, perhaps it was one stone with something drawn on it (which was my initial thought).

If it was the second, then it is not that big a deal. There's graffiti like that everywhere, and usually gets scribbled over by other graffiti by people from Antifa or other lefties.

If it was the first...I'd suspect it's got something to do with the Germans not wanting to make a scene. They don't like making a scene - they'll notice, maybe they'll even get annoyed, but they'd never make the effort and mention it to anyone. And some probably just thought it was there by accident.

Why are swastikas still illegal in Germany. They should become legalized.

I'm just saying, it's only a symbol. It's been over 60 years since the nazi's we're around in full power and people should not directly associate a swastika with nazism.
That's silly.

People who lay down these symbols do it precisely because it is the Nazi's symbol. No one is proposing taking it out of Buddhist temples - but if people spray it on phonebooths, or put it on the footpath in Europe, you know what that is about.

No one is proposing taking it out of Buddhist temples - but if people
Actually some jews were. silly jews. Do they not know that the swastika is a really a fricken buddhist symbol.

People who lay down these symbols do it precisely because it is the Nazi's symbol.
Some people probably lay down the symbol precisely because it is illegal, edgey, and pisses people off, I know I would if I were in Deutschland.

Lol. That's a nice building.

Anyway, people shouldn't make such a fuss about swastika's anymore. Yes, a horrible system used this symbol a lot, but it just is a nicely shaped symbol, why not use it? Because there are bad memories attacjed to it? Well, grow up and get over it.

Are we gonna ban the use of flowers too if a country decides to defile human rights and happens to have chosen a flower as a national symbol?
Banning the swastika wouldn't permit very many people in India to worship freely.

Some people probably lay down the symbol precisely because it is illegal, edgey, and pisses people off, I know I would if I were in Deutschland.
Yeah, the best place to get killed if you have a swastika.

That's silly.

People who lay down these symbols do it precisely because it is the Nazi's symbol. No one is proposing taking it out of Buddhist temples - but if people spray it on phonebooths, or put it on the footpath in Europe, you know what that is about.
I say we allow the symbol of the swastika whether its used in Nazi ways or not and ban it in a specific case only if it violates some other law, like for example, the spray paint or footpath (the spray paint is vandalism, not sure about the footpath). People should also have the freedom to show their political ideals.

People should also have the freedom to show their political ideals.
It's a long story...suffice to say that Germany considers itself something of a special case.

It's a long story...suffice to say that Germany considers itself something of a special case.
That's because Germans are (and note, I say this honoring my own German heritage) out of their fucking heads. Nazism is passed. The Japanese and Soviets were just as evil (one could argue worse, but that's a different discussion) as the Germans, and they haven't felt the need to make angst a part of their national heritage.
Yet, the Germany let itself be saddled with guilt as a shield to cover the fact that the Allies were hardly the nice, innocent people everyone likes to pretend. Be honest, would you really care what Stalin and FDR thought of your human rights record? Thats like getting lectured on compassion by Ayn Rand.

The Japanese and Soviets were just as evil (one could argue worse, but that's a different discussion) as the Germans, and they haven't felt the need to make angst a part of their national heritage.
Well, I'd like to say that German national heritage is just a little bit more than those twelve years.
As for who was more evil...I don't think anyone has really gotten close to the stage where one would kill people in murder factories in such demeaning and dehumanising way.
But that's really for the Russians and the Japanese and the Turks and everyone else to decide. Germany on these matters sits in something of a glass house.

Yet, the Germany let itself be saddled with guilt as a shield to cover the fact that the Allies were hardly the nice, innocent people everyone likes to pretend.
A few things about that:
a) Denazification was ultimately necessary. It was that sort of shock that had to be administered to achieve a clean break.
b) Even though denazification was a shock, it wasn't all that lasting. The real 'guilt' only came when the kids (and perhaps some grandkids) of those people grew up and began to rebel. The '68er (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_student_movement) are the ones you can thank, I suppose.
c) You might have noticed that I certainly don't consider the Allies to be particularly nice or innocent. Quite a few people in Germany think the same...unfortunately the only ones who say that publically are the Neonazis (and Von Witzleben - but I'm not sure of his political leanings anyways), and no one wants to be associated with them.

Be honest, would you really care what Stalin and FDR thought of your human rights record? Thats like getting lectured on compassion by Ayn Rand.
As I said, it's more about what the students did to their parents in the late sixties than what Stalin and FDR said.

But there was a much more in-depth discussion of that recently in a thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=474934&page=22) of mine.

Anyway, people shouldn't make such a fuss about swastika's anymore. Yes, a horrible system used this symbol a lot, but it just is a nicely shaped symbol, why not use it? Because there are bad memories attacjed to it? Well, grow up and get over it.

It isn't just that a horrible system "used" this symbol a lot, this symbol continues to be used by neo-Nazi and anti-Semites all around the world. It continues to be used as an icon of Holocaust support/revision/denial as well as support for Hitler/Nazis/White Supremacists/anti-Semites, etc. Thus, it doesn't simply have bad memories attached to it, it is an icon that is still currently and widely used as a symbol of evil. When racists grow up and stop using the swastika, then the rest of the world will stop viewing it as evil and lift bans on it.

The exception is of course when the swastika is used in Eastern contexts and has nothing to do with the common Western use of the swastika (as a Nazi symbol).

Are we gonna ban the use of flowers too if a country decides to defile human rights and happens to have chosen a flower as a national symbol?

You've committed the fallacy of questionable/false analogy. For an analogy to be valid, the two things compared must be similiar enough that something can be inferred about the latter from the former. You can't infer something about a swastika from flowers, or something about flowers from a swastika. I won't bother to post a huge list of why they are different and not similiar enough to be compared, I think its common sense and we can all come up with dozens of reasons.

Well, I'd like to say that German national heritage is just a little bit more than those twelve years.
Strangely enough everyone seems to be ignoring that. And if you don't your a ....

As for who was more evil...I don't think anyone has really gotten close to the stage where one would kill people in murder factories in such demeaning and dehumanising way.
See. The result is the same. Their dead. How many millions upon millions where killed under Stalin and during the Mao's cultural revolution? One used gas, the other had them shot, send of to Siberia to be killed eco friendly, another used firebombs or had them beaten to death to save ammo. You think the victims realy care which way they are killed?

But that's really for the Russians and the Japanese and the Turks and everyone else to decide. Germany on these matters sits in something of a glass house.
Even Vladimir Putin said enough is enough. I guess his words fell on deaf mans ears. Oh wait, I forget. He's EVIL!!!! He's not a jolly nice guy like, let's say, Dubya. So naturally his opinion doesn't count.



b) Even though denazification was a shock, it wasn't all that lasting. The real 'guilt' only came when the kids (and perhaps some grandkids) of those people grew up and began to rebel. The '68er (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_student_movement) are the ones you can thank, I suppose.
The last thing I would ever do is thank a '68er. *spitsspitsspits*
Filthy red scum. Fischer was one of them. *spits* We have them to thank for the RAF. Red rats.*spits* And let´s not forget the misery Germany is in now.

c) You might have noticed that I certainly don't consider the Allies to be particularly nice or innocent. Quite a few people in Germany think the same...unfortunately the only ones who say that publically are the Neonazis (and Von Witzleben - but I'm not sure of his political leanings anyways), and no one wants to be associated with them.


You might want to view a few German forums then. You´ll find plenty of people who argue against the partylines. And no. Their not ....
As for myself. I consider myself to be political flexible. I don´t follow one doctrin religiously.

Haha...what a misleading thread title.

ZOMG! NAZIS!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Buddhistswastika.jpg

O NOES! MORE NAZIS!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/DiwaliSwastika.jpg

TEH NAZIS R EVERYWHERE!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Falun_emblem.png

EVEN HERE!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Arizona_highway_marker.jpg

AND THERE!

http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/stephanie.jpg

AND BACK THEN!

http://www.ospreysamurai.com/images/samurai_heraldry.jpg

Oh. And here are some more.

http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps531006/2004_53100603.jpg