NationStates Jolt Archive


How Neocon arrogance destroyed Iraq

PsychoticDan
07-04-2006, 16:30
Great op/ed piece by Rosa Brooks
AT LAST, there's consensus on who's to blame for the mess in Iraq: the Iraqis!

From the beginning, there were ominous signs that the Iraqis weren't going to play the game right. More than a few neocon hearts were broken by the Iraqi refusal to greet us with flowers and champagne as we marched into Baghdad, and the snub still hurts. Just this week, Daniel Pipes, president of the Middle East Forum and an unrepentant hawk, complained about "the ingratitude of the Iraqis for the extraordinary favor we gave them: to release them from the bondage of Saddam Hussein's tyranny."

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What really rankles most politicos these days is the Iraqis' refusal to get cracking on the formation of a multiethnic government. Four months after the elections, Iraqi factions still haven't come up with a power-sharing arrangement that satisfies all constituencies.

In Baghdad on Monday for a joint appearance with British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Condoleezza Rice suggested that we've now given the Iraqis all the help a liberated people can reasonably expect: We "have forces on the ground and have sacrificed here," she told reporters, so we have "a right to expect that this process [of government formation] will keep moving forward."

Chiming in, Straw called on the Iraqis to shape up and select a prime minister, pronto: "The Americans have lost over 2,000 people [in Iraq]. We've lost over 100…. And billions — billions — of United States dollars, hundreds of millions of British pound sterlings have come into this country. We do have, I think, a right to say that we've got to be able to deal with Mr. A or Mr. B or Mr. C. We can't deal with Mr. Nobody."

The "after all we've done for you!" theme is more than a little jarring, coming as it does from the architects of the war. The Iraqis didn't beg us to invade their country. We invaded Iraq for reasons quite unrelated to the welfare of the Iraqi people (and, it turned out, for reasons unrelated to the welfare of the American people as well).

Though most Iraqis were delighted to see the last of Hussein, the war that caused his ouster has had a far higher price tag for Iraqis than for Americans. Iraq's economy is in a shambles, and insurgent and sectarian violence continue unabated. Although solid figures are impossible to come by, most estimates suggest that at least 30,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of the war in Iraq, along with thousands of Iraqi soldiers and police.

Last week, Rice breezily acknowledged the "thousands" of "tactical errors" the U.S. has made in Iraq. She later insisted she was speaking "figuratively, not literally," but even if our bloopers only numbered in the dozens, some of them were pretty big, and all of them have contributed to the current fiasco.

When coalition forces brought regime change to Iraq, they also released from their bottles the genies of ethnic and sectarian conflict. Hussein had kept Iraq intact through terror and brute force. Coalition forces ousted Hussein, but neither Washington nor the Iraqis have been able to come up with a recipe for peace and political stability post-Hussein.

U.S. pressure for an instant political fix has been one of our many "tactical errors." In September, the International Crisis Group warned that "a rushed constitutional process has deepened rifts and hardened feelings" among Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. Undaunted, Washington kept pushing, and the consequences are unlikely to be better this time. The only thing that currently seems to unite Iraq's mutually hostile factions is the conviction that the hectoring remarks by Rice and Straw have just made a bad situation worse.

If Rice is concerned that we're not getting a great return on our investment in Iraqi democracy, she should consider that — despite the ringing pro-democracy rhetoric — direct U.S. investments in Iraqi democracy have been embarrassingly small. The lion's share of U.S. funding for Iraq has gone to the Pentagon, with little left over for the slow but essential work of training legislators, building accountable political parties and fostering strong civil-society institutions, all crucial to the development of sustainable democratic institutions.

On the eve of the Iraq war, former Secretary of State Colin Powell is said to have cautioned President Bush by citing the "Pottery Barn Rule": "You break it, you own it." Rice's suggestion that the Iraqis now owe it to the United States to move forward with democratic reform is a twisted echo of her predecessor's words. Today, Iraq is broken — and even though we're the ones who broke it, our current secretary of State thinks we deserve a refund.
Link (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-brooks7apr07,0,6548274.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions)
Tactical Grace
07-04-2006, 17:21
Wow. The Iraqis owe the US and UK a cookie? :rolleyes:

I thought their oil was being used to compensate the act of goodwill. :rolleyes:
Ravenshrike
07-04-2006, 18:07
Does Rosa Brooks know what a tactical error is? No, I didn't think so. The best general in the world will make constant tactical errors. The question is not does he make errors but what does he do to correct them. The reason C. Rice retracted it is because, predictably, a bunch of anti-war idiots and others with grudges against the admin jumped on it and played up a no-brainer statement as some sort of great blunder.
Tactical Grace
07-04-2006, 18:10
The tactics are irrelevant, the whole strategy was idiotic.
Skinny87
07-04-2006, 18:10
Does Rosa Brooks know what a tactical error is? No, I didn't think so. The best general in the world will make constant tactical errors. The question is not does he make errors but what does he do to correct them. The reason C. Rice retracted it is because, predictably, a bunch of anti-war idiots and others with grudges against the admin jumped on it and played up a no-brainer statement as some sort of great blunder.

So - I'm an idiot for being against the conflict, am I?
PsychoticDan
07-04-2006, 18:12
Does Rosa Brooks know what a tactical error is? No, I didn't think so. The best general in the world will make constant tactical errors. The question is not does he make errors but what does he do to correct them. The reason C. Rice retracted it is because, predictably, a bunch of anti-war idiots and others with grudges against the admin jumped on it and played up a no-brainer statement as some sort of great blunder.Talk about missing the forest for the trees, that was HARDLY the point of the article. You pick that one semantic error and you think that it detracts from the overall point of the piece? What a weak position to hlod in a debate. Since you bring it up, however, I'll repost an answer to you that I did in anothre thread that you ignored.
Exactly. Strategic mistakes are a different thing. Thanks for pointing that out because it is important to remeber the difference. A strategic mistake is like going in without enough men to properly occupy a country you just invaded or, say, allowing the country to be looted while your invading army just stands there and watches as they guard oil infrastructure, or not properly securing explosive and ammunition depots of the country you just invaded so a fledgling insurgency could just walk in a grab them and use them against you or not preparing for an insurgency at all or not properly securing the borders of the country you just invaded or taking over territory from an insurgency and then not properly securing the territory so that it falls right back into their hands when you leave or not taking the time to train troops in the cultural norms of the people you are going to occupy so that a growing resentment sets in or not setting up a proper Iraqi police and security force training program so that it is easily infiltrated by insurgents.

If those kinds of mistakes were made then these generals might have a point. But tactical mistakes are going to happen and you can't blame Rumsfeld. :)
PsychoticDan
07-04-2006, 18:38
That's what I thought. The incompetence is so completely indefensible it's futile to even try.
Sumamba Buwhan
07-04-2006, 18:47
stupid Iraqis!

What kind of idiot wouldn't appreciate their country getting bombed and occupied, their loved ones killed in the tens of thousands, their museums looted, and their economy highjacked - while being forced to live thru a civil war and complete economic instability as some religious crazies take a secular country and turn it into a theocracy? Iraqi idiots thats who.
Skinny87
07-04-2006, 19:15
stupid Iraqis!

What kind of idiot wouldn't appreciate their country getting bombed and occupied, their loved ones killed in the tens of thousands, their museums looted, and their economy highjacked - while being forced to live thru a civil war and complete economic instability as some religious crazies take a secular country and turn it into a theocracy? Iraqi idiots thats who.

Indeed. Don't they know that all of that is just part and parcel of being 'liberated'?
Tactical Grace
07-04-2006, 20:56
Indeed. Don't they know that all of that is just part and parcel of being 'liberated'?
Yep. Better die free than live and love in a tyranny. :rolleyes:
Asbena
07-04-2006, 21:09
Yep. Better die free than live and love in a tyranny. :rolleyes:

You said that quote once I remember it. :P
True statement though.
Ashmoria
07-04-2006, 21:51
stupid Iraqis!

What kind of idiot wouldn't appreciate their country getting bombed and occupied, their loved ones killed in the tens of thousands, their museums looted, and their economy highjacked - while being forced to live thru a civil war and complete economic instability as some religious crazies take a secular country and turn it into a theocracy? Iraqi idiots thats who.
ya know, im getting so sick of this pissy attitude on the part of iraqis that im starting to regret ever going in to liberate them!
Skinny87
07-04-2006, 21:56
You said that quote once I remember it. :P
True statement though.

Not really. Iraqi life doesn't seem to have improved that much in the past few years as compared to Saddams regime.
Free Farmers
07-04-2006, 22:01
What does Neocon arrogance not screw up? :p
Novoga
07-04-2006, 22:14
What does Neocon arrogance not screw up? :p

What does Liberal ignorance not screw up?
Anarchic Christians
07-04-2006, 22:16
What does arrogance not screw up?
DrunkenDove
07-04-2006, 22:20
What does arrogance not screw up?

Maniacal laughter and the ability to capture heroes and put them in excessively elaborate death machines.
Ravenshrike
07-04-2006, 23:01
So - I'm an idiot for being against the conflict, am I?
Did you attempt to use Condi's statement as a point to bash Bush? If not than maybe no. Maybe yes. I don't know you and gauging a person over the 'net is never the wisest thing to do.
PsychoticDan
07-04-2006, 23:09
Did you attempt to use Condi's statement as a point to bash Bush? If not than maybe no. Maybe yes. I don't know you and gauging a person over the 'net is never the wisest thing to do.
Why do you continue to harp on side points? You know that the semantics here have nothing to do with the central point. You completely ignore arguments that you can't defeat and then try to divert attention away by pointing out irrelevent errors or side arguments.
Skinny87
07-04-2006, 23:11
Did you attempt to use Condi's statement as a point to bash Bush? If not than maybe no. Maybe yes. I don't know you and gauging a person over the 'net is never the wisest thing to do.

I didn't find Ms Rice's statement to be the best statement on Iraq ever, but I've yet to judge. I do oppose the war for being pointless and achieving very litte, as well as being badly managed, especially in the latter stages.
LondoMolari
08-04-2006, 02:33
The tactics are irrelevant, the whole strategy was idiotic.

I guess you could really blame the Brits. I mean it was them after all that created that Frankenstein monster we call Iraq back in 1921.

Hey, I got an idea, lets take three provinces all ethnically and religiously unique and make a united country out of them and then install an unpopular Hashemite monarch to rule the joint.

What do you mean it won't work? :headbang: