NationStates Jolt Archive

I thought he was, but then I realised that he doesn't really have a Christian attitude as a leader, from what I've heard/seen.

... or is that that Government who he 'represents'? And maybe how the media portrays him?

Any thoughts?

I thought he was Prostant(sp)...

Well? I forget who said it but when asked who was the leader of the Christian movement(here); he replied George W. Bush.

What exactly is a Christian attitude for a leader?

All through history attitudes were modified to justify the means for the end.

If he was baptised and all that he's a Christian. Whether he's a good Christian or not is a whole other question.

Yes, he was baptized. That's all you really need to be a christian.

Edit: Beat to it. Bah.

I thought he was, but then I realised that he doesn't really have a Christian attitude as a leader, from what I've heard/seen.

... or is that that Government who he 'represents'? And maybe how the media portrays him?

Any thoughts?

I find myself quoting the Bible quite often of late. It's a bad habit, I really should suppress it.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

I thought he was Prostant(sp)...
He's technically a Methodist.

Is he a Christian? He calls himself one, and he does advocate some Christian things. Now, there's a world of difference between "being" Christian and actually following the teachings of Jesus, which would qualify as "acting" Christian.

As far as I know, Jesus never had a good word for war, torture, or cutting taxes for the rich.

That's all I have to say about that.

Methodist! That explains a lot!

i believe mr bush is a card-carrying methodist

its way less bizarre than nixon being a quaker

<snip>

But...but that's class warfare! The poor are poor because they're being punished by God and the rich are rich because god is rewarding them.

i believe mr bush is a card-carrying methodist

its way less bizarre than nixon being a quaker

True....but aren't we seeing a pattern here? The more unusual the religion the more unusual the president (in a bad way...)?

What do you think would happen if Bush actually was a fantastic Christian? (By which I mean kept all the rules, did everything as the bible said to)*

How would the US and indeed other nations react?


* I know this would make him perfect, but it's a hypothetical thing!

Yes, he was baptized. That's all you really need to be a christian.

Edit: Beat to it. Bah.
where do you get the idea that being baptized makes you a Christian? That's like saying going swimming in the ocean makes you a whale.

getting wet in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than swimming in the ocean makes you a fish (okay whales aren't fish.......but, you know what I meant)

I certainly hope not, but if he is, my opinion of Christendom will go down dramatically.

I suggest very strongly that sensible Christians denounce Bush's reported Christianity.

But...but that's class warfare!

God is pretty big on class-motivated violence, at least according to the Bible.

That's like saying going swimming in the ocean makes you a whale.

Well there goes my summer plans. Thanks a lot, Smunk.

where do you get the idea that being baptized makes you a Christian? That's like saying going swimming in the ocean makes you a whale.

getting wet in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than swimming in the ocean makes you a fish (okay whales aren't fish.......but, you know what I meant)

So what does make you a Christian?

Perhaps a more accurate statement would be "Bush claims he is a christian." Outside of that, it's really hard to say, and if there is a God, and if He does care about this sort of thing, then I imagine he would consider others making claims of what pleases Him in terms of worship a bit like poaching on his territory. It would probably piss Him off a touch.

So what does make you a Christian?

I'm not Christian, but I'll try this one ...

I would think following the teachings of Jesus and striving to live your life like he lived his (without the nasty crucify thing, of course) ...

That's just my take on it.

So what does make you a Christian?
commitment to Jesus Christ and devoting your life to following His teachings.

(but I am Protestant, so according to my Catholic friend I don't know anything)

So what does make you a Christian?
Belief that Yeshua ben Yosef is the Messiah.

Belief that Yeshua ben Yosef is the Messiah.

Pretty crappy Messiah if you ask me ... which you didn't ... but so what ...

I mean ... water to wine 2000 years ago, great ... but where's the peace and brotherly love? If you ask me - which you didn't - I'd say he needs to have his Messiah license revoked.

Believing in your heart that Jesus (as the bible describes him) came to earth and died on a cross as a sacrifice for the wrong things you have done and will do in the future. And as a result of this, allowing God to control your life instead of you.
That's what makes you a Christian.

I think

I think

Don't do that. It's anti-Christian.

What do you think would happen if Bush actually was a fantastic Christian? (By which I mean kept all the rules, did everything as the bible said to)*

How would the US and indeed other nations react?


* I know this would make him perfect, but it's a hypothetical thing!

I imagine the US and other nations would be rather disturbed by the sudden wave of laws involving people getting stoned to death (which would, I suppose, be a lot cheaper than the electric chair...)

It might be a little difficult for him to properly identify the descendants of all the Middle-Eastern ethic groups which the Bible advocates wiping out, but I imagine that the US and other nations would get rather warped out about that, too.

bush is DEFINITELY a christian....

stoned to death (which would, I suppose, be a lot cheaper than the electric chair...)

Makes for better TV, too.

*passes the bong*

And as a result of this, allowing God to control your life instead of you.


.....didnt god give us free will?

So what does make you a Christian?

According to the C of E: you need to be christened, confirmed, and observe communion at least twice a year: once on easter, and once on any other day of your choosing.

That's it.

There's none of that "accept jesus into your heart rubbish". Plain practical religion, that's what the masses need.

I imagine the US and other nations would be rather disturbed by the sudden wave of laws involving people getting stoned to death (which would, I suppose, be a lot cheaper than the electric chair...)

It might be a little difficult for him to properly identify the descendants of all the Middle-Eastern ethic groups which the Bible advocates wiping out, but I imagine that the US and other nations would get rather warped out about that, too.

First, Bush would have to find someone without sin to cast the first stone. I think he'd have a loong wait for that. :)

And didn't the Flood already wipe out the people who needed wiping out? :)

What do you think would happen if Bush actually was a fantastic Christian? (By which I mean kept all the rules, did everything as the bible said to)*

How would the US and indeed other nations react?


* I know this would make him perfect, but it's a hypothetical thing!

The whole "turn the other cheek" thing, plus the rejection of protections for private property, would make his approval rating fall even lower.

Wanting to inherit the earth, he would also surely resign.

What makes you a Christian? You make yourself a Christian by claiming to be one. Your actions may show that you don't follow the teachings of Christianity, but there are millions of Christians that don't follow Christs teachings, wholly. I still call them Christians if they call themselves Christians.

True Christians on the other hand (those that do their best to fully follow the teachings of Christ) are probably the minority of Christians, as evidenced by pretty much every Christian I have ever run into. Most seem to think that going to Church once a week and saying some scripted prayer allows you to do whatever you want and you can still consider yourself a saint or something.

Belonging to a religion doesn't mean shit. You can have a relationship with God with or without religion. Beign religious does not = being spiritual or close to God (though it may help some who are unable to find God without religion).

.....didnt god give us free will?

That's the weird thing.

All the fundamentalists tell us to listen to God, and obey God, and subordinate ourselves to God, but it was God gave us freedom, right?

Maybe He doesn't want to rule us, after all.

God the Anarchist. It has an interesting ring to it.

Pretty crappy Messiah if you ask me ... which you didn't ... but so what ...

I mean ... water to wine 2000 years ago, great ... but where's the peace and brotherly love? If you ask me - which you didn't - I'd say he needs to have his Messiah license revoked.
and more importantly

where is MY wine??

.....didnt god give us free will?


Edit: What I meant was not letting him control you in a robot sort of way, more in a spiritual way. Which obviously sometimes has effects on physical aspects too.
It's more Him directing you than controlling.

He's a scary Christian. Spent his youth drinkin' and drivin' and snorting coke off the toilet lid at Camp David. Got "saved" late in life by Billy Graham and in short order became the most powerful man on Earth. His associates say he is extremely devout and we know the people he picks to surround himself with, Cheney, Rove, etc... are all bible believing, speaking in tongues Christians. Bush now is embued with a sense of purpose because he gets saved and is catipulted, by God, no less, into the White House. His ideological rigidity is the result of his feeling ordained by God to make the decisions he makes. That's why he cannot admit a mistake or learn from past errors. God is using him as a vessel for his will and God does not make mistakes.

And didn't the Flood already wipe out the people who needed wiping out? :)

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Book of Numbers "Go unto the Midianites and smite them." and similar comments. Of course, Midian doesn't exist any more as such, some of the Bedouin would be of Midianite extraction.

Of course, as you probably guessed, I wasn't being very serious. :D

Bush reads his bible and attends services regularly. That makes him a good christian.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Book of Numbers "Go unto the Midianites and smite them." and similar comments. Of course, Midian doesn't exist any more as such, some of the Bedouin would be of Midianite extraction.

Of course, as you probably guessed, I wasn't being very serious. :D

It's hard to keep track of the smiteing and smoteing that went on in the Old Testiment. Plus, like most Christians, I haven't actually READ the bible since Sunday School. I think there's some rule/commandment against it. :D

Actually, now that I think about it, he does have the behavior patterns typical of someone who believes that he knows the ultimate truth and what's best for everyone else (i.e, monotheists excluding jews).

So he really is a good candidate for christianity.

I certainly hope not, but if he is, my opinion of Christendom will go down dramatically.

I suggest very strongly that sensible Christians denounce Bush's reported Christianity.


Don't worry, many of us denounce him :). His attitudes, actions and so forth portray him like the leaders of old Europe, they claim the title of follower of Christ, but they abuse it and are totally opposite.

Don't do that. It's anti-Christian.


Hey now...that was kind of a low blow there

Answer to Thread:
(I wish it would end the discussion)

That's between him and God.

Pretty crappy Messiah if you ask me ... which you didn't ... but so what ...

I mean ... water to wine 2000 years ago, great ... but where's the peace and brotherly love? If you ask me - which you didn't - I'd say he needs to have his Messiah license revoked.

Even coming and conquering the wages of sin and coming back from the dead isn't enough for some people. Jesus himself warned that some people just wouldn't/couldn't accept it:

Luke 16 27-31
'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Bush reads his bible and attends services regularly. That makes him a good christian.


Right...:rolleyes:

Let me make this clear:
The only good christians are those that live 24/7/365 for Christ. Every breath, every thought and ever action is for the glorification of God. I attend Services regularly and read my bible alot, but i am not what i would consider a "good christian". I honestly think i am a mediocre christian, but i try hard to make up for that. Anyways, Going to church, reading your bible, claiming His name, none of that matters, unless you live the Life.

Methodist! That explains a lot!

Watch it Asbena.

Hey now...that was kind of a low blow there

Don't take me seriously.

Don't take me seriously.


Opps my bad man. I am kinda in a pissy mood today..So i am trying to find ways to pick fights i guess :(

Even coming and conquering the wages of sin and coming back from the dead isn't enough for some people. Jesus himself warned that some people just wouldn't/couldn't accept it:


A preacher said "Hey now, there's gonna be people who don't believe me"?! :eek: :eek:

Oh Noes! That proves him to be the Almighty!

Sorry, gonna have to try harder. I don't buy into the Nostradamus crap either and I certainly don't believe in Santa Claus.

Tell Jesus to give me a call and we'll talk about it over a nice lunch. Surely if he is all you claim, that will not be a problem for him.

Opps my bad man. I am kinda in a pissy mood today..So i am trying to find ways to pick fights i guess :(

Heh ... I get that way sometimes. Personally, I have no problem with Jesus or his teachings ... it's many of his followers that irk me because they get it wrong. So very, very wrong.

I do love Jesus. He seemed like such a nice fellow and if he's made up, then it gives me hope for mankind that we could invent someone so beatific. I mean ... "love thy enemy" ... powerful ... gives me goosebumps.

However, the notion that I don't accept him as my personal Lord and Savior as being a one-way ticket straight to some burning lake of fire where I'll be gnashing my teeth for a while is, well, as laughable to me as a fat guy comin' down my chimney and leaving stuff under a tree in my living room.

However, the notion that I don't accept him as my personal Lord and Savior as being a one-way ticket straight to some burning lake of fire where I'll be gnashing my teeth for a while is, well, as laughable to me as a fat guy comin' down my chimney and leaving stuff under a tree in my living room.

I can attest to this myself. I had a friend telling me that Jesus was the only way into heaven and I literally snapped her head off because of it.

I can attest to this myself. I had a friend telling me that Jesus was the only way into heaven and I literally snapped her head off because of it.
So, what'd you get? 20 to life?

Actually there is a loop-hole for that. You are loving God's son and are praying to God and to his son and the holy spirit when you do it. Saves our asses incase we are wrong. :P

I can attest to this myself. I had a friend telling me that Jesus was the only way into heaven and I literally snapped her head off because of it.

Someone is watching too much Elfen Lied.

I can attest to this myself. I had a friend telling me that Jesus was the only way into heaven and I literally snapped her head off because of it.

1 John 2 22-23
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

1 John 5 1-5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 15 20-24
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Actually there is a loop-hole for that. You are loving God's son and are praying to God and to his son and the holy spirit when you do it. Saves our asses incase we are wrong. :P

Personally I'd recommend marrying a Christian just to be on the safe side, according to Paul that's enough to get saved.

gw is a "Christian" in the same way that the Pharasees were Jewish. Jesus said the conservative religious leaders had killed all of the prophets and they would kill him also. Today the religious conservative leaders continue to kill Jesus with their attitude toward Christianity.

He's technically a Methodist.


Oh dear. I was brought up a Methodist. Parents were very lax once I hit about 12 (before that was church most Sundays except for the summer, when we would be on holiday), but still obliged to go every now and then until about 16.

Hmm...

I thought he was, but then I realised that he doesn't really have a Christian attitude as a leader, from what I've heard/seen.

... or is that that Government who he 'represents'? And maybe how the media portrays him?

Any thoughts?

He seems to believe alot of the dogma associated with modern Christianity.
I wouldn't count him as a true follower of Christ though.

I thought he was, but then I realised that he doesn't really have a Christian attitude as a leader, from what I've heard/seen.

... or is that that Government who he 'represents'? And maybe how the media portrays him?

Any thoughts?

The only category I would put him into is idiot. And that is enough.

commitment to Jesus Christ and devoting your life to following His teachings.

(but I am Protestant, so according to my Catholic friend I don't know anything)

Huh. That's the basics of Catholicism, as well. At least, that's the basics of pretty much every mass I've been to. Granted, there's a bit more baggage with Catholics to deal with(Catholics have a lot more traditions), but the basics are the same.

I'm going to assume that he/she has a prejudice for the Church. Really, the Roman Catholic Church has changed quite a bit, and have become far more leniant in their ways.

I thought he was, but then I realised that he doesn't really have a Christian attitude as a leader, from what I've heard/seen.

... or is that that Government who he 'represents'? And maybe how the media portrays him?

Any thoughts?

he's about as christian as my....

Technically, Bush junior is a Christian. But then you could also say that Hitler was a Catholic. Belonging to or acting in the guise of belonging to a religion and practicing the preaching of a religion are two very different things. History is full of bad people doing things on behalf of their religion that are in fact completely against the teachings of their religion in the first place. Ultra conservative politicians hoping to elicit the support from the old time religion crowd will embrace the hate factor of a religion (anti-abortion and anti-gay) for political gain. In Christianity there is a problem with so-called Christians citing the Old Testament against scapegoats (real issues are hard) and enemies; ignoring anything the New Testament has to say on the subject.

Now the fact that if Christ walked the Earth today he’d be getting wire tapped by Homeland Security and then dragged away as a dissident camp without being charged is beside the point. He’d be protesting war and getting tossed into jail faster than you could say amen. Apparently having that dark Eastern Mediterranean look can get you in trouble these days, especially if you’re an outspoken activist.

The Bruce

Well? I forget who said it but when asked who was the leader of the Christian movement(here); he replied George W. Bush.

What exactly is a Christian attitude for a leader?

NOT lying. Bush might think he's a Christian or other religious thing but the way he acts isn't what a man of God should be acting like.

1 John 2 22-23
... whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Acknowledgement is not the same as worship.


1 John 5 1-5
Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

All men are the sons of God, I suppose he counts as well.


1 Corinthians 15 20-24
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

What is it with this forum and zombies?!

I hardly think that he is the Christian that comes to mind. The "love thy neighbor" ones. No he is of the "smite the infedel" one, those who hate and fear those who are not like them so favor warring with those who are different. So I would say that as to the ideal Christian, Bush most certainly is not one, a hypocrite at best.

Technically, Bush junior is a Christian. But then you could also say that Hitler was a Catholic. Belonging to or acting in the guise of belonging to a religion and practicing the preaching of a religion are two very different things. History is full of bad people doing things on behalf of their religion that are in fact completely against the teachings of their religion in the first place. Ultra conservative politicians hoping to elicit the support from the old time religion crowd will embrace the hate factor of a religion (anti-abortion and anti-gay) for political gain. In Christianity there is a problem with so-called Christians citing the Old Testament against scapegoats (real issues are hard) and enemies; ignoring anything the New Testament has to say on the subject.

Now the fact that if Christ walked the Earth today he’d be getting wire tapped by Homeland Security and then dragged away as a dissident camp without being charged is beside the point. He’d be protesting war and getting tossed into jail faster than you could say amen. Apparently having that dark Eastern Mediterranean look can get you in trouble these days, especially if you’re an outspoken activist.

The Bruce
Excellent. This post pretty much sums it up, except that abortion and gay mariage ARE immoral. Also, Bush cannot act like a Christian as our moronic founding fathers decided on separation of Church and state, long live Catholic theocracies!!!

This post pretty much sums it up, except that abortion and gay mariage ARE immoral.

Says who? Jesus certainly didn't ...

Excellent. This post pretty much sums it up, except that abortion and gay mariage ARE immoral.

And why are they immoral? Just out of curiosity.

...abortion and gay mariage ARE immoral. Also, Bush cannot act like a Christian as our moronic founding fathers decided on separation of Church and state, long live Catholic theocracies!!!
So you want to throw out my right not to practice a certain religion? My sir, that is very un-American.