NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is another hot topic that gets a lot of emotion worked up but little constructive debate. Here are my thoughts on the whole illegal immigration issue. If you live here without going through the established immigration process, then you're here illegally. You're not 'undocumented' you're illegal.

Now for those who say building a wall on the US/Mex border is tantamount to racism, try this on for size. As it stands now, there are thousands of Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thais and Africans who want to emigrate to the US but have to go through the legal immigration process simply due to the fact that they can't walk across the ocean. Yet, there are thousands who come across the US/Mex border daily and any thought of deporting them is met with howls of outrage.

So if that is the case, then simply eliminate immigration rules altogether, no more visas so now anyone, from any country can simply hop on a plane, come to the US and set up shop, no questions asked. Because if we're not going to do that, then our current policy is in fact racist because it favors Mexicans over everyone else.

So if that is the case, then simply eliminate immigration rules altogether, no more visas so now anyone, from any country can simply hop on a plane, come to the US and set up shop, no questions asked.

Sounds good to me.

Sounds good to me.

Agreed.

So if that is the case, then simply eliminate immigration rules altogether, no more visas so now anyone, from any country can simply hop on a plane, come to the US and set up shop, no questions asked.
Yay for free markets! I would add to this that there should be no borders anywhere.

Sounds good to me.

As long as they pay for any government services they use, I have no problem with them coming her hassle-free and without documentation. Of course, this would probably require a pay-per-use for most programs, like yearly fees paid upon enrollment at schools and whatnot.

Barriers to immigration create the environment that allows "illegal" immigrants to be taken advantage of. By removing them, we will effectively raise their wages and make the labor market more transparent thereby eliminating one of the biggest problems, the victimization of illegals by unscrupulous employers.

We could start dealing with illegal immigration be eliminating the various assinine quotas that exist. Simply insure that the person has no major criminal record (murderers emmigrate to Argentina; I know, similar names, same hemisphere, it is easy to get confused) and that they have an SSN (soes they can be taxed like the rest of us poor fuckers).

Yay for free markets! I would add to this that there should be no borders anywhere.
Heartily agreed.

My only problem with the current system is that the "undocumented" immigrants are working for far less than American citizens who need the jobs as well, making it harder for those already-established citizens to support their own lives while non-Americans better themselves unlawfully. Personally, I have no problem if you're in another country to better your position in the world, but I think that if that's the case, do it officially.

Simonist']Heartily agreed.

My only problem with the current system is that the "undocumented" immigrants are working for far less than American citizens who need the jobs as well, making it harder for those already-established citizens to support their own lives while non-Americans better themselves unlawfully. Personally, I have no problem if you're in another country to better your position in the world, but I think that if that's the case, do it officially.

but wouldn't it be easier to put stricter penalties on people who employ illegal immigrants?

but wouldn't it be easier to put stricter penalties on people who employ illegal immigrants?
The problem we're having with that in my area is that they're being paid out of pocket, and tax-free, in cash, so they're not even going on corporate documentation as being employed.

but wouldn't it be easier to put stricter penalties on people who employ illegal immigrants?

Have stricter penalties reduced the presence of drugs in the United States?

Rather than penalizing them, which just doesn't work, we need to address the sources of the problem by making the market freer and reducing the artificial distortions in the labor market caused by the "illegal" status of immigration law.

Have stricter penalties reduced the presence of drugs in the United States?

Rather than penalizing them, which just doesn't work, we need to address the sources of the problem by making the market freer and reducing the artificial distortions in the labor market caused by the "illegal" status of immigration law.

I don't know. I don't pretend to be an expert on this topic, but it seems that limiting the employers is easier than shipping out evey illegal immigrant. Under the assumption that the US does not want freer borders and freer markets, that is.

We get illegals from other countries as well. There's something like 30,000 or so illegal Chinese.

And then we have the Cubans (Touch foot on US soil, even a broken bridge, and you're homefree).

Honestly, the system needs some serious reforms. To enter into the US, a supposedly immigrant country, takes a lot of time and more money than many foks have. Hell, to inquire about the process will cost you around $17 dollars in JAPAN of all places.

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.

Whooooooa... That's creepy, man. Just think of what the extremist borderbastards in Arizona would do.

They have high-powered sniper rifles, for fuck's sake!

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.

Worst idea ever.

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.

that's a HORRIBLE idea. So you are saying if someone killed an illegal immigrant, he could get of scotch free?????

Have stricter penalties reduced the presence of drugs in the United States?

Rather than penalizing them, which just doesn't work, we need to address the sources of the problem by making the market freer and reducing the artificial distortions in the labor market caused by the "illegal" status of immigration law.

Hear hear!

Making them wait for a permit is tantamount to denying them outright- the chances of any given Mexican migrant getting a worker's permit (or whatever it is that one eneds to live and work legally in the US legally) is slim to none.

On a side note, does it amuse anyone else here that Mexico doesn't hesitate to deport any illegal migrants it might find on it's territory? No racism there...

Whooooooa... That's creepy, man. Just think of what the extremist borderbastards in Arizona would do.

They have high-powered sniper rifles, for fuck's sake!
Exatamundo. They do something illegaly, we get to do something illegal to them.

I don't know. I don't pretend to be an expert on this topic, but it seems that limiting the employers is easier than shipping out evey illegal immigrant. Under the assumption that the US does not want freer borders and freer markets, that is.
What? And penilize those big donners to both parties and drive up prices annoying consumers?

Perish the thought. It's MUCH easier to just ship out a bunch of illegals who can't vote and ignore the ones coming in.

Whooooooa... That's creepy, man. Just think of what the extremist borderbastards in Arizona would do.

They have high-powered sniper rifles, for fuck's sake!
Yeah, and they also show greater restraint and less corruption than government authorities. And, while his idea doesn't exist in law, it is often the case in practice.

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.

Yep. Only Americans are people.

that's a HORRIBLE idea. So you are saying if someone killed an illegal immigrant, he could get of scotch free?????
Heck, it WILL deter the people wanting to get in. Now they actually have to go through the process. If they don't, well, any guy with a ski-mask can come up to him and *start bad gangster accent* put a cap in his ass *end bad gangster accent*.

Yep. Only Americans are people.
Ain't saying that. Just read some of my other responses to my idea.

Heck, it WILL deter the people wanting to get in. Now they actually have to go through the process. If they don't, well, any guy with a ski-mask can come up to him and *start bad gangster accent* put a cap in his ass *end bad gangster accent*.

It's amusing that you look to the criminal element in your society to solve the problems of a crime.

Heck, it WILL deter the people wanting to get in. Now they actually have to go through the process. If they don't, well, any guy with a ski-mask can come up to him and *start bad gangster accent* put a cap in his ass *end bad gangster accent*.

No it won't, and you are suggesting to strip someone of a universal right! These people are going in to the US because they cannot find livelihoods in Mexico. They just want to improve their situations. Do you think the fact that if someone was to commit a crime against them, but not be punished, would deter them? Some of them have reached a point in poverty where not moving would also be death for them.

Exatamundo. They do something illegaly, we get to do something illegal to them.

...have you never, ever in your life done anything illegal?

...have you never, ever in your life done anything illegal?

*listens intently, ski mask at the ready*

...have you never, ever in your life done anything illegal?
I've stolen a pencil. And I'm suprised at you people. Do you actually think I was serious with my idea? If I actually solicited that idea, I'd be a facist pig!

I've stolen a pencil. And I'm suprised at you people. Do you actually think I was serious with my idea? If I actually solicited that idea, I'd be a facist pig!

Yes, I did think you were serious, and I still think you are serious about that idea. Honestly, hon, grow up.

The problem with building a wall on the southern border is it's just a massive waste of taxpayer money, and it WON'T stop illegal immigration.

Do you have any idea how much a big wall would cost?! And immigrants are not stupid. They're resourceful and if they want to get into the country, they'll find a way. Massive waste with little or no gain.

It's reasonable to have immigration laws and try to limit the number of immigrants that come into the country. But, I think if people want to work in the US it shouldn't be too hard to get temporary work permits, so long as the ol' background check checks out.

What we should really do with immigration laws is get our act straight with incentives. Make it really easy to get into the country legally for people who want to come in and work and earn a living. But make it so if you come in illegally, you can't come in legally for some number of years. And make it so you can't employ illegal immigrants without strict penalties.

What we should NOT do is make it illegal for churches to give illegal immigrants food or for doctors to treat them. That's freaking inhuman and unamerican.

I have a better idea. Lets let them come over without documentation. But if they do, they will be stripped of all civil rights, AND any crime commited against them will not be prosecuted.
I think there would be cases were people bring people in undocumented just so thet could kill/molest the person.

I've stolen a pencil. And I'm suprised at you people. Do you actually think I was serious with my idea? If I actually solicited that idea, I'd be a facist pig!

Be honest.

It was at least two pencils.

Yes, I did think you were serious, and I still think you are serious about that idea. Honestly, hon, grow up.
Dah! First Simonist calls me honey, now you call me hon... Jesus Christ... Aren't those words supposed to be used to show affection? But seriously, how many times have you seen people like Fiddlebottoms give equally outrageous ideas and make it seem like they're perfectly serious?

Be honest.

It was at least two pencils.
Actually, it's in excess of thirty.

Dah! First Simonist calls me honey, now you call me hon... Jesus Christ... Aren't those words supposed to be used to show affection? But seriously, how many times have you seen people like Fiddlebottoms give equally outrageous ideas and make it seem like they're perfectly serious?
He gets my demeaning little pet-names all the time, don't worry about Fiddlebottoms.

The other difference is that with him, we're more accustomed to his personality and sense of humour. We can tell when he's kidding because either we know better, he'll make a statement saying so, or he'll just go so far to the edges of outrageous that even he couldn't do it all without smiling. You're a different case -- we don't have the same sort of experience in these issues with you, and so naturally we assume you are being serious if you dont' say otherwise.

Simonist']He gets my demeaning little pet-names all the time, don't worry about Fiddlebottoms.

The other difference is that with him, we're more accustomed to his personality and sense of humour. We can tell when he's kidding because either we know better, he'll make a statement saying so, or he'll just go so far to the edges of outrageous that even he couldn't do it all without smiling. You're a different case -- we don't have the same sort of experience in these issues with you, and so naturally we assume you are being serious if you dont' say otherwise.
Weren't you around when I was Ritlina?

Dah! First Simonist calls me honey, now you call me hon... Jesus Christ... Aren't those words supposed to be used to show affection? But seriously, how many times have you seen people like Fiddlebottoms give equally outrageous ideas and make it seem like they're perfectly serious?

1) you were serious about the idea at first, and your responses also showed you were serious. You might've changed your mind because other people showed you it was ridiculous, but you WERE serious.

2) There are things to joke about and things not to joke about.

3) why are you so touchy about the "hon" thing? Some people don't get called endearing terms even if they wanted to be. Why should you care what I refer to you as? Just be glad I didn't call you something offensive.

Dah! First Simonist calls me honey, now you call me hon... Jesus Christ... Aren't those words supposed to be used to show affection? But seriously, how many times have you seen people like H N Fiddlebottoms VIIIgive equally outrageous ideas and make it seem like they're perfectly serious?
Validish point. First H N Fiddlebottoms VIII's ideas areway more outrageous. Second we do expect some outrageous ideas from him and know that he doesn't really mean all of them. Plus, we barely know you. You have only 117 posts, while H N Fiddlebottoms VIII has none.

1) you were serious about the idea at first, and your responses also showed you were serious. You might've changed your mind because other people showed you it was ridiculous, but you WERE serious.

2) There are things to joke about and things not to joke about.

3) why are you so touchy about the "hon" thing? Some people don't get called endearing terms even if they wanted to be. Why should you care what I refer to you as? Just be glad I didn't call you something offensive.

1. Jeez, did I really seem that serious?

2. Ok, I guess so. But here in California, where we have to deal with most of it, its common to make fun of the country just south of us and its residents (keeping names out so I don't get called racist). Believe me, you deal with it everyday, its the only way to keep from actually killing them.

3. Well, if you don't have affection towards me, what's the point of using a word that shows affection.

Now here's an idea... enforce the current labor laws. Make it so people without papers can't work... and people with papers get paid minimum wage at a minimum, and get all the benefits they are legally entitled to. Prosecute EVERYONE who employs illegal workers.

It'd stop illegal immigration dead in its tracks because there would no longer be an incentive to come illegally. The reason people complain illegals do jobs americans won't is because the businesses are behaving illegally and not treating them right, and the illegals have no way to complain.

THEN allow immigrants (regardless of nationatlity) come over, using the same prerequisites that, say, Mexico uses. They'll say it's unfair, but how they justify that, I'm not sure.

Sounds good to me.


me too

Validish point. First H N Fiddlebottoms VIII's ideas areway more outrageous. Second we do expect some outrageous ideas from him and know that he doesn't really mean all of them. Plus, we barely know you. You have only 117 posts, while H N Fiddlebottoms VIII has none.

maybe he has so many posts that Jolt refuses to show them. The very sight of the number would crash the system! :eek:

Weren't you around when I was Ritlina?
Of course I was. But as I stated before, I was annoyed that every single thread you entered turned into a bitch-fest about the way you typed, so I avoided them like the plague. Ergo, I haven't really figured you out yet, nor have the people who were likely more preoccupied by your typing back then to realize the personality behind it.

Now here's an idea... enforce the current labor laws. Make it so people without papers can't work... and people with papers get paid minimum wage at a minimum, and get all the benefits they are legally entitled to. Prosecute EVERYONE who employs illegal workers.

It'd stop illegal immigration dead in its tracks because there would no longer be an incentive to come illegally. The reason people complain illegals do jobs americans won't is because the businesses are behaving illegally and not treating them right, and the illegals have no way to complain.

THEN allow immigrants (regardless of nationatlity) come over, using the same prerequisites that, say, Mexico uses. They'll say it's unfair, but how they justify that, I'm not sure.
I suppose you will pay for all that yourself?

Dah! First Simonist calls me honey, now you call me hon... Jesus Christ... Aren't those words supposed to be used to show affection?
False affection, if administered sarcastically, or they're used to be patronizing. I think you're getting both, congratulations. (<--More sarcasm, in case you're having a hard time keeping up)
But seriously, how many times have you seen people like Fiddlebottoms give equally outrageous ideas and make it seem like they're perfectly serious?
Yeah, and I catch Hell and "honey" over my proposals just as often. If it weren't for the thrill of defending the indefensible and of getting called pet-names by alleged females, I wouldn't be on the Internets at all. Instead, I'd be forced to resume my letter-bomb campaign against Burger King.
Fucking bastards, I wanted it my way, but they were all like "we can't kill an unchristened infant and pour its blood into our ketchup dispensers for you." FDA regulations, my ass.

maybe he has so many posts that Jolt refuses to show them. The very sight of the number would crash the system! :eek:
Actually, a system crash is what caused it.

We get illegals from other countries as well. There's something like 30,000 or so illegal Chinese.

And then we have the Cubans (Touch foot on US soil, even a broken bridge, and you're homefree).

Honestly, the system needs some serious reforms. To enter into the US, a supposedly immigrant country, takes a lot of time and more money than many foks have. Hell, to inquire about the process will cost you around $17 dollars in JAPAN of all places.

i don't know if this is b.s. or not.

but a friend of mine said he was interested in moving to australia...and looked into it,and was told it would cost him around 50,000.00 usd to live there legally.

i guess my point is,maybe we should look to how other countries handle immigration.

my personal opinion is basically....allow all legal immigration,with a streamlined application process.
i am also for a wall for national security reasons,and the fact that everyone should come here legally,for many reasons(using gov services,paying a fair share in taxes,weeding out terrorists or violent crimminals,etc)
not to mention it is completely unfair to the thousands that go thru the process legally(like my grandparents had too)and then have millions illegally circumvent the law,drain the health/welfare/education budgets and not contribute.

not to mention the little problem of ms13 gangbangers bouncing back and forth across the border to commit crimes and sell drugs(although i think drugs should be legal)the violence associated with ms13 is a real problem.

it has unfortunately come to the point we need a wall...for our safety(pretty easy for a middle eastern terr to pass as a hispanic with basic language skills and slip over the border,and with the catch and release system we have...can try again a few days later.)

also,it is also quite dangerous for the average honest latin trying to sneak in for work...what with crosssing a desert,coyotes and gangs victimizing them or abandoning them in the middle of nowhere.
alot of them die out in the desert,and that is tragic for some guy trying to find work to help his family.

that is why i also support a guest worker program with expedited application process's

have a couple of entry points...proper documentation and a heavily patrolled wall to keep all illegal crossings....everyone is happy...the immigrant that wants work...doesn't have to look over his shoulder every minute wondering if he is gonna get deported,he will have to pay taxes..which is only fair..i do!

and lastly...go after the greedy slobs that employ illegals so they can pay them slave wages and depress real wages of legal people looking for work.

i see it everyday..and the argument does not hold water that they do jobs that americans wont..thats b.s.
they do jobs for slave pay that americans wont.
so some greedy pig or corporation can circumvent disability/social security and unemployment payments to the state..and still pay next to nothing so he pocket a ton of loot.

probably why no political party has wanted to deal with this issue,until the average folks got so pissed and the media got involved have they decided to "look" at the problem they know has been festering yet turned a blind eye too..for political gain or for campaign contributions.

there are places like laredo that are like the wild west now...people are dying in the desert...gangs are running rampant...farmers are having their property vandalized and their families terrorized.

something has to change....and to start..i feel they need to at the least,close the border down until things stabilize somewhat,and implement a program to help immigrants that want to work...be able to do so.

The OP is proposing a terrible idea.

Immigration, whether it is from Mexico, China, or anywhere, is a serious threat to our national identity and the opportunities of our labor force. Not to mention the risks we would take allowing anyone to pass our borders (which would include terrorists). We must construct a physical barrier to immigration. Not just between Mexico and our southern border; it must encircle the entire United States to be effective. Four walls, AND a ceiling. One air hole, to allow the air pollution out and the clean air in, but a metal grate must be installed over it and it must be guarded around the clock by a military task force. This is not only a great plan to keep honest native Americans employed, but it would keep out dangerous terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh.

to me the problem with illegal immigration stems from the fact that it is illegal. now, this argument probably requires a lot of background to put across properly but i'm going to try and put it concisely. so, the world order of nation-states is fundamentally based on the flawed idea of nationalism, the idea that each state comprises a single nation with a common culture, history, language, set of values, etc. Up until maybe a couple of hundred years ago all borders were pretty much open, people were allowed, even welcomed, to come and work in whatever country they chose to live in. the rise of nationalism and the subsequent nation-state system put an end to this. 'foreigners' began to be viewed with suspicion, differences between cultures were emphasized to the point where it became accepted 'knowledge' that the culture on one side of a border was inherently different from that on the other side simply for its geographical situation. consequently borders were closed and patrolled, immigration was formalised and so illegal immigration began. proportionate to local population, immigration has probably not changed an awful lot in the past two hundred years or so. illegal immigration, however, has increased significantly because of the increasingly strict requirements put on eligibility to immigrate. not long ago we used to talk about refugees, now they're assylum seekers, because they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are facing persecution, even when they are coming from a country torn by civil war.

so IMHO the solution to illegal immigration is to make it legal, or better still, just stop regarding migration as something that needs legal speak applied to it. now this could be done before or after dispelling the myths of nationalism, probably better to do it after actually. which wouldn't be hard - it didn't take long to take hold - after perhaps a generation nationalism could become a thing of the past and xenophobic policies like those employed in the immigration debate will be laughed at.

How to solve this (and a lot of other) problem(s):

Create an American Foreign Legion. Non-American citizens give up four to six years of their lives, minimum, serving America's armed forces. This benefits all. How? you may ask. Thus:

-Every immigrant and would-be citizen would have to have good health. During their time in the 'AFL' they would recieve a small wage, in addition to Uncle Sam taking care of all their clothing, housing, and food for six years. If they aren't issued something, they don't need it. The small wage can be spent on either themselves or sent home to their families. At the end of the period they should have: A-Working English, B-Marketable Skills, C-American citizenship (garaunteed upon discharge at the end of six years. If they go career, then they become citizens at the end of four years).

-The President would gain a highly motivated, all-volunteer force that the American people wouldn't give a flying fuck about. Like the French, who don't give a rip about the French Foreign Legion. These soldiers could then be sent to act as bullet-stoppers in Iraq and Afghanistan, allowing the current bullet-stoppers (Reservists and National Guardsmen/women) to return to hearth and home.

In short, everyone wins!

Except for the poor Mexican bastards who get greased by citizen B-52s or insurgents. But they probably would have been claimed by the dessert on their way into the US in the first place.

I say, build a wall...put in the money, even though it will be pricey. It would be nice if the National Guard was actually in the country to help guard the border as well.

Then, make every illegal alien currently in the U.S. into a citizen, then...never allow a single immigrant in from Mexico ever again, legal or illegal.

Nobody should be able to complain, we're keeping out all the ones who aren't already here (satisfying the border-security advocates), we've just made 12 million law-breakers into citizens (satisfying the current immigrant population), and we're keeping the labor force already here intact (satisfying buisnesses who rely on immigrant labor).

If the Mexican government or people complain, simply tell them they had their chance to break our laws, and they'll never, EVER get another.

but wouldn't it be easier to put stricter penalties on people who employ illegal immigrants?
Not if they can afford lobbyists.

to me the problem with illegal immigration stems from the fact that it is illegal. now, this argument probably requires a lot of background to put across properly but i'm going to try and put it concisely. so, the world order of nation-states is fundamentally based on the flawed idea of nationalism, the idea that each state comprises a single nation with a common culture, history, language, set of values, etc. Up until maybe a couple of hundred years ago all borders were pretty much open, people were allowed, even welcomed, to come and work in whatever country they chose to live in. the rise of nationalism and the subsequent nation-state system put an end to this. 'foreigners' began to be viewed with suspicion, differences between cultures were emphasized to the point where it became accepted 'knowledge' that the culture on one side of a border was inherently different from that on the other side simply for its geographical situation. consequently borders were closed and patrolled, immigration was formalised and so illegal immigration began. proportionate to local population, immigration has probably not changed an awful lot in the past two hundred years or so. illegal immigration, however, has increased significantly because of the increasingly strict requirements put on eligibility to immigrate. not long ago we used to talk about refugees, now they're assylum seekers, because they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are facing persecution, even when they are coming from a country torn by civil war.

so IMHO the solution to illegal immigration is to make it legal, or better still, just stop regarding migration as something that needs legal speak applied to it. now this could be done before or after dispelling the myths of nationalism, probably better to do it after actually. which wouldn't be hard - it didn't take long to take hold - after perhaps a generation nationalism could become a thing of the past and xenophobic policies like those employed in the immigration debate will be laughed at.

alot of nation states became nation states after other cultures infiltrated their societies and attacked them.
never under estimate the other guys greed(scarface)

we have had a few wars cause other countries/nations wanted the resources of another..i think it is human nature.

just like sex..power and control dictate a large part of our lives,and to think you can wish human nature away...while noble..is simply...de de dee

i may agrre with you on principle..but have to say nay on the whole reality thing.

maybe i am crazy...but if we had open borders..how do you propose to keep out terrorists and people that mean to take by force what is yours?

and i noticed a tim mcveigh comment somewhere on this thread...and that was also correct...but then again..if you cant stop a homegrown wacko...with all thae peope that new his dysfunction...how are we suppose to protect ourselves from secretive people from abroad with ill intentions?

by opening the borders?:headbang:

I think that with the current situation that you need to control immigration to screen out criminals, but otherwise you should take on what your society can handle within reason. People are always on about how a certain number of people must be unemployed so that the economy grows, because otherwise it won’t be able to find the workers it needs when starting businesses need them. If immigration policies are used to fill up the problems of finding worker pools, then you don’t need to have an economic system that prefers at least a 10% unemployment rate.

As far as keeping out immigrants go, the last people to try that policy were the First Peoples of North America. It worked fine against the Vikings, but things became unraveled after that. I’ve always felt that it was ignorant to be prejudiced against immigration when humanity is about the story of human migration.

I live in the New World and can count many generations of pioneers in the US and Canada, but really unless you materialized from the ether, we all came from somewhere else, somewhere down the line of ancestors. I’ll bet a lot of Mexicans have roots in the New World older than many Americans out there.

You need to keep an immigration policy that is in step with your infrastructure of course and your economic ability to employ them (or their economic ability to employ others). The truth is with lower birthrates in the West we need immigration to sustain population growth. Immigration policies based on race are policies of ignorance.

The Bruce

How to solve this (and a lot of other) problem(s):

Create an American Foreign Legion. Non-American citizens give up four to six years of their lives, minimum, serving America's armed forces. This benefits all.


Now THIS is a sensible idea, as for Naliitr's idea... my mind is already adding tax deductions and a minefield program to it.

As far as the Wall is concerned I don't think its a bad idea, but the cost would leave a mark UNLESS the goverment cuts all funding to animal preservation related programs... Ok, the whole "kill off the endangered species already!" is a bit of a personal goal of mine, ok, back to the wall, I say round up everyone who constantly bitches about needing the wall and have them build AND pay for it.

Oh, and what is that about a "universal right"?

It sounds great but one of the primary reasons for a lot of people fleeing the nations they do is to escape military dictatorships. It’s the reason why immigrants from these nations tend not to pursue careers in the military when they arrive in the West. Sometimes after several generations of people from those nations live in the West they might join the military, but they tend not to. These people have a lot to offer, just in civilian life.

Besides having an American Foreign Legion pretty much guarantees that you get people coming to you that you probably would want to screen out with your immigration process. The current version of the American Foreign Legion are the private security forces that are currently being employed in Iraq. There are soldiers serving with them that are quite literally war criminals from other parts of the world, who go were the money and work is. Those would be the kind of people your American Foreign Legion attracts. Besides, once you start having other people fight all your wars for you it’s the beginning of the end of a society. Just ask the Romans.

The Bruce

It sounds great but one of the primary reasons for a lot of people fleeing the nations they do is to escape military dictatorships. It’s the reason why immigrants from these nations tend not to pursue careers in the military when they arrive in the West. Sometimes after several generations of people from those nations live in the West they might join the military, but they tend not to. These people have a lot to offer, just in civilian life.

Besides having an American Foreign Legion pretty much guarantees that you get people coming to you that you probably would want to screen out with your immigration process. The current version of the American Foreign Legion are the private security forces that are currently being employed in Iraq. There are soldiers serving with them that are quite literally war criminals from other parts of the world, who go were the money and work is. Those would be the kind of people your American Foreign Legion attracts. Besides, once you start having other people fight all your wars for you it’s the beginning of the end of a society. Just ask the Romans.

The BruceThe whole "Foreign Legion" thing isn't very accepted in America, due to the British hiring Hessians during the revolutionary war. The idea of mercenaries tends to get frowned upon. (Unless they're corporate mercenaries :rolleyes: )