NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21364

Brigitte Gabriel
"...America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon.

...Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims.

...If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America’s learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.

...You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam.

...I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted “Allah Akbar!” My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel."

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York, or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon."

Quotes posted in no particular order. Please - share your thoughts.

Meh.

A lot of the stuff coming out of the US these days is the same as the islamic extremist offerings - forcing our culture upon theirs, supremacy of values, being unafraid of openly declaring empire, defining entire peoples as subhuman, threatening the destruction of specific nations.

Might not be the big cheeses saying it, but you know the way the mood is shifting. The quantity of ignorance, hatred and paranoia in the US is just as great. You can see it on display right here.

Someone is over-reacting to events that have personally affected them, colouring their opinions forever. As the article is admittedly not an objective source, all we can do is pity the author and hope we never descend to the same depths of irrationality and subjectivity.

Everyone is biased against Muslims because of the Crusades. Stupid french knights. The stereotypes are overwhelming, like how in France the Muslims can't get good jobs so now some of them are rioting. We need to get over these stereotypes if we ever want to achieve peace.

Everyone is biased against Muslims because of the Crusades. Stupid french knights. The stereotypes are overwhelming, like how in France the Muslims can't get good jobs so now some of them are rioting. We need to get over these stereotypes if we ever want to achieve peace.
Because of the crusades? I don't get it.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21364

Brigitte Gabriel
"...America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon.

...Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims.

...If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America’s learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.

...You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam.

...I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted “Allah Akbar!” My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel."

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York, or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon."

Quotes posted in no particular order. Please - share your thoughts.
Why do you keep referring to America? This is a European problem, for the most part. In America, we had no protests over the cartoons, we had no one threatening violence, and saying "America, this is your next holocaust." We had 9/11, which was really bad, but it was the work of a few nutjobs. Granted, there are probably sleeper cells even right now, but the Muslim community at large doesn't resemble anything like you described. So here's my point: In America, we don't have this problem, so stop referring to America. Europe has this problem, and that's the place you should be discussing.

Personally, I have no answers for you, other than treating a group of people like second-class citizens will only make them more angry and likely to rebel. It seems to me like in every country that has this problem, they have treated their Muslims like this. It hasn't happened in America, because we have a long history of immigration and assimilation.

I hate history but the basics are:
1. Muslims take Jerusalem.
2. French and other europeans :mad:
3. Go to Jerusalem.
4. :sniper:
5. Win:D
6. Lose. :(
7. Lose again:mad:
8. and again...
until the europeans are very pissed at not being able to take Jerusalem
History is better with smileys:D

I hate history but the basics are:
1. Muslims take Jerusalem.
2. French and other europeans :mad:
3. Go to Jerusalem.
4. :sniper:
5. Win:D
6. Lose. :(
7. Lose again:mad:
8. and again...
until the europeans are very pissed at not being able to take Jerusalem
History is better with smileys:D
I know what the crusades were, but I don't get your point about everyone being biased against Muslims because of the crusades. It doesn't make sense to me. Now if you had said that people are biased against Muslims because of Islamist terrorism, I would agree.

I hate history but the basics are:
1. Muslims take Jerusalem.
2. French and other europeans :mad:
3. Go to Jerusalem.
4. :sniper:
5. Win:D
6. Lose. :(
7. Lose again:mad:
8. and again...
until the europeans are very pissed at not being able to take Jerusalem
History is better with smileys:D

Don't forget about the parts like:

European troops slaughtering Jews along the way.
Children being sold into slavery.
Attacking other European cities that had nothing to do w/ the "Holy Land".

Don't forget about the parts like:

European troops slaughtering Jews along the way.
Children being sold into slavery.
Attacking other European cities that had nothing to do w/ the "Holy Land".
I believe Constantinople was technically in Asia, although the point can be argued. Most of the others were European, however. :)

Everyone is biased against Muslims because of the Crusades. Stupid french knights. The stereotypes are overwhelming, like how in France the Muslims can't get good jobs so now some of them are rioting. We need to get over these stereotypes if we ever want to achieve peace.

if you truely beleive it is ever going to be possible to achieve peace, then i must laugh at you uncontrollably

I know what the crusades were, but I don't get your point about everyone being biased against Muslims because of the crusades. It doesn't make sense to me. Now if you had said that people are biased against Muslims because of Islamist terrorism, I would agree.
Because Europeans (no offense) are sore losers. They lost the Crusades 8 or so times so naturally they're going to dislike them. And they killed their men. That might suck. And they invaded their land. Or at least the French, Spaniards, Austrians, Germanics, and other such peoples.

if you truely beleive it is ever going to be possible to achieve peace, then i must laugh at you uncontrollably
Theoretical, my dear friend, theoretical.

Don't forget about the parts like:

European troops slaughtering Jews along the way.
Children being sold into slavery.
Attacking other European cities that had nothing to do w/ the "Holy Land".
That's irrevalent to the Islamic peoples, however, so it was not included.

"Brigitte Gabriel is an expert on the Middle East conflict and lectures nationally and internationally on the subject. She's the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television and the founder of AmericanCongressforTruth.com"

And all that, given the article shes written, is rather hillarious, in a sad way. In what is I suppose reverse racism on my part, I always am suprised when I see a non-white person so fully back an oppressor culture and its lies.

Because Europeans (no offense) are sore losers. They lost the Crusades 8 or so times so naturally they're going to dislike them. And they killed their men. That might suck. And they invaded their land. Or at least the French, Spaniards, Austrians, Germanics, and other such peoples.
I don't think Europeans as a rule dislike Muslims. Most of the ones on this forum tend to defend Islamic cultures and nations whenever the debate comes up.

And all that, given the article shes written, is rather hillarious, in a sad way. In what is I suppose reverse racism on my part, I always am suprised when I see a non-white person so fully back an oppressor culture and its lies.
*Shrugs*

History is full of people who traded their roots for personal gain.

"Brigitte Gabriel is an expert on the Middle East conflict and lectures nationally and internationally on the subject. She's the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television and the founder of AmericanCongressforTruth.com"

And all that, given the article shes written, is rather hillarious, in a sad way. In what is I suppose reverse racism on my part, I always am suprised when I see a non-white person so fully back an oppressor culture and its lies.
Opressor culture? That woman's life experience has made her view Islam as an "opressor culture".

Quotes posted in no particular order. Please - share your thoughts.

LOL.

Red Scare deja vu.

I don't think Europeans as a rule dislike Muslims. Most of the ones on this forum tend to defend Islamic cultures and nations whenever the debate comes up.
Sorry, now I'm being stereotypical. I'm such a hypocrite. It's not likethe Europeans on here are 1 all expressing their views and 2 representative of all of Europe. There still could be people that feel that way.
It feels like everyone's arguing with me today.:(

Islam has to deal with their violent, xenophobic and angry minorities, and we have to deal with ours, it seems.

As for the larger solution to the problem...in the last months it has become obvious to me that this "War on Terror" can only be won in Europe.
The Middle East is in such a mess politically that liberal Islam will have a very hard time there, while in Europe it would find support, the stable religious and political background and so on. And from Europe, a refreshed liberal Islam could spread into other lands over time.

So the key to solving this whole clash of cultures is through the hearts and minds of Europe's Muslim immigrants...sad just that no one knows how to start.

Sorry, now I'm being stereotypical. I'm such a hypocrite. It's not likethe Europeans on here are 1 all expressing their views and 2 representative of all of Europe. There still could be people that feel that way.
It feels like everyone's arguing with me today.:(
Well, people will do that here. It's usually not personal.

Islam has to deal with their violent, xenophobic and angry minorities, and we have to deal with ours, it seems.

As for the larger solution to the problem...in the last months it has become obvious to me that this "War on Terror" can only be won in Europe.
The Middle East is in such a mess politically that liberal Islam will have a very hard time there, while in Europe it would find support, the stable religious and political background and so on. And from Europe, a refreshed liberal Islam could spread into other lands over time.

So the key to solving this whole clash of cultures is through the hearts and minds of Europe's Muslim immigrants...sad just that no one knows how to start.
Pride is the downfall of people. We need to become emotionless to solve our problems.

Pride is the downfall of people. We need to become emotionless to solve our problems.
And we also need to conform to a single atheist culture. We should strive to become more like ants or bees. Each individual but an expendable cell in a superorganism that can accomplish much more than any of it's single parts.

or you know the UN could actually do something...:rolleyes:

And we also need to conform to a single atheist culture. We should strive to become more like ants or bees. Each individual but an expendable cell in a superorganism that can accomplish much more than any of it's single parts.
Or we can become Vulcans. Star Trek!!!:D

Or we can become Vulcans. Star Trek!!!:DMy idea was more like the borg. Unfortunately evolution screwed us over and made us individuals.

My idea was more like the borg. Unfortunately evolution screwed us over and made us individuals.
"Evolution", hey?

Hey, don't we have a way of dealing with that fault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism)?

It's all falling into place now!

The problem is with Islam. If Islam is really a "religion of peace" like they always say, then why do we only see suicide bombers coming out thier religion? You can say it's just a few "fringe radicals" but why do the terrorist consitantly come out of islams? Why do they have so many violent "fringe radicals"? It's because Muhammad founded his religion by waging bloody war on the local people and forcing them to renounce thier old religions or be killed. The whole religion is founded on blood and violence. That's why the middle east and northern africa are the most violent areas in the world. And don't say its violent because America is there. If America made things violent, then there would be war tribes roaming around michigan cutting people's hands off. But there aren't. If America made things violent, there would be people running into coffee houses screaming religious hysteria then blowing themselves and all the women and children around them to pieces. But there aren't. Islam is the only fact that consitantly contributes to the violence.

Actually the Nazis did use suicide bombings. The war ended before the sucide squadren was used very much.

Ok. So your saying the Nazi's were almost as bad as Islam, except they showed more restraint. My point definately still stands.

The problem is with Islam. If Islam is really a "religion of peace" like they always say, then why do we only see suicide bombers coming out thier religion? You can say it's just a few "fringe radicals" but why do the terrorist consitantly come out of islams? Why do they have so many violent "fringe radicals"? It's because Muhammad founded his religion by waging bloody war on the local people and forcing them to renounce thier old religions or be killed. The whole religion is founded on blood and violence. That's why the middle east and northern africa are the most violent areas in the world. And don't say its violent because America is there. If America made things violent, then there would be war tribes roaming around michigan cutting people's hands off. But there aren't. If America made things violent, there would be people running into coffee houses screaming religious hysteria then blowing themselves and all the women and children around them to pieces. But there aren't. Islam is the only fact that consitantly contributes to the violence.

We do not only see violence coming out of Islam; it comes out of Christianity and atheists and everyone else too! Readical Christians want gay people to die, radical Christians held inquisitions and crusades! There are murderers and rebel groups all over the world that aren't Islamic. Drug dealers run around Detroit shooting eachother, I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with Islam. When the Japanese had planes smashing into American ships, where was Islam? Were the Nazis Islamic? Napoleon? Stalin? No... Well, certainly they must have been, because they were all violent people and Islam is the only thing causing any problems in the world. Let's just go round 'em up, and kill them all! In the name of peace, of course. :(

When the Japanese had planes smashing into American ships, where was Islam? Were the Nazis Islamic? <snip>
[smart ass answer] Islam was forming SS units and helping Hitler kill Jews http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_collaboration.htm http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Haj_Amin_El_Husseini.htm [/smart ass answer]

We do not only see violence coming out of Islam; it comes out of Christianity and atheists and everyone else too!

I didn't say it only came out of Islam. I said most of the violence comes out of Islam. Muslim controlled areas are dispaportinately violent to the rest of the world.


Readical Christians want gay people to die, radical Christians held inquisitions and crusades!

So your saying Muslims are as bad as inquistioners and homophobs who tie gays to trees and stone them to death. I'll agree with that.


There are murderers and rebel groups all over the world that aren't Islamic. Drug dealers run around Detroit shooting eachother, I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with Islam.

You're right again. Muslims are violent like drug dealers. Of course drug dealers kill other drug dealers, so no one cares. Muslims kill people who never did anything to them.


When the Japanese had planes smashing into American ships, where was Islam?

No, but they crashed planes into military war ships loaded with soldiers on thier way to invade thier homeland. They didn't crash them into office buildings and coffee shops filled with inocent women and children civilians.


Were the Nazis Islamic? Napoleon? Stalin?

Once again, you're right. Muslims are only slightly worse than the nazis, napoleon, and stalin put together.


No... Well, certainly they must have been, because they were all violent people and Islam is the only thing causing any problems in the world.

Just as bad.


Let's just go round 'em up, and kill them all! In the name of peace, of course.

Sounds like you must be a Muslim.

The problem is with Islam. If Islam is really a "religion of peace" like they always say, then why do we only see suicide bombers coming out thier religion?

I'm not sure whether you're asking "Why are all suicide bombers Muslim?" or "Why are the only Muslims we hear about suicide bombers?" If it's the former, they're not. Even if the majority of suicide bombers are Muslims (which may be true for all I know - I've never seen figures on that), they certainly don't have a monopoly on terrorist activity in general, and I'm going to assume that no one in their right mind considers it a great deal more admirable to kill other people provided you don't kill yourself as well. If it's the latter, this may be because very few news organizations get a lot of attention by broadcasting stories like "Breaking news - local Muslim is nice person" and "Tonight at nine - many people go to mosques, fail to be blown up." Funny how that works.

If America made things violent, then there would be war tribes roaming around michigan cutting people's hands off. But there aren't.

*cough*Michigan militia*cough* :p

Islam is the only fact that consitantly contributes to the violence.

Mm-hmm. And McVeigh is a good Muslim name, right?

I know a great many Muslims. None of them have shown the slightest inclination towards killing people. Similarly, the vast majority of Christians are not Fred Phelps. It's not any religion that's a problem, it's the crazy bastards who use that religion as an excuse for their sociopathy.

I know a great many Muslims. None of them have shown the slightest inclination towards killing people. Similarly, the vast majority of Christians are not Fred Phelps. It's not any religion that's a problem, it's the crazy bastards who use that religion as an excuse for their sociopathy.

Would you feel safer going to Iran (one of the few muslim controlled contries not currently at war) or the Vatican? Or any other Christian controlled country you can name? Nuff' said.

Opressor culture? That woman's life experience has made her view Islam as an "opressor culture".

Yes...however I'd advise you that others experience of her culture has made them think similarily of christianity. And she doesn't stress the obvious problems of women within conservative muslim societies, or make the obvious statements about corrupt Arab regimes...Instead her guff is far more "They're just wrong" orientated,. I also her find her sanctimony rather grating considering that her own faction within Lebanon (the Marionite christians) are not adverse to bomb, massacre and allying with foriegn states to create civil unrest themselves. Not in the slightest bit adverse.

And then theres this kind of thing......

"The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's civilization versus barbarism, democracy versus dictatorship, goodness versus evil. "

http://www.betar.co.uk/articles/betar1098208598.php

Now thats just madness.....particularily when you consider who is rather brutally occupying who. And Ironic, considering who opened certain camp gates to let in marionite christians who then massacred the Palestinians inside. Palestinian civillans who they had agreed to safeguard on the provisio that the PLO withdraw from Beirut. Even more Ironic that its her "hate" thats behind "because they hate".

Would you feel safer going to Iran (one of the few muslim controlled contries not currently at war) or the Vatican? Or any other Christian controlled country you can name? Nuff' said.

Hardly "'nuff said," since you've switched from discssing religion to discussing the ruling bodies of specific countries. A better question would be to ask whether I would feel safer in a room full of Muslims or a room full of Catholics. Having been in rooms and houses of worship full of both, I have to say that I feel pretty damn safe in both cases. I would, likewise, feel equally unsafe in a room full of angry crusaders or a room full of angry jihadists. Religious people = not scary. Angry sociopathic lunatics using religion as an excuse = scary. This really shouldn't be hard to understand...

Might not be the big cheeses saying it, but you know the way the mood is shifting. The quantity of ignorance, hatred and paranoia in the US is just as great. You can see it on display right here.

Yes but I think this really started after the protest over the cartoons and the Chirstian being arrested in Afganastan. Before that I liked Islam except for the few fanatics. Now I'm not sure how few these fanatics really are. I supposed it's the culture more than religion because the bible is filled with kill everyone passages in the old testament and we don't listen to them. All I have to say is Western Civilization hasn't faught a war with itself in 60 years. Sorry Russia but you're not considard Western. Name one other culture that can claim that.

Meh.

A lot of the stuff coming out of the US these days is the same as the islamic extremist offerings - forcing our culture upon theirs, supremacy of values, being unafraid of openly declaring empire, defining entire peoples as subhuman, threatening the destruction of specific nations.

Might not be the big cheeses saying it, but you know the way the mood is shifting. The quantity of ignorance, hatred and paranoia in the US is just as great. You can see it on display right here.

That's funny - I don't remember the last time any religious leaders in the states offered up a cash reward for the death of anyone who offended them over a book or cartoon... Maybe I missed it during one of the "Death to Iran" ralleys. Or maybe it was during the big party when we were celebrating the murder of innocent people... :rolleyes:

We do not only see violence coming out of Islam; it comes out of Christianity and atheists and everyone else too! Readical Christians want gay people to die,

name one. Besides - I've yet to see and of the gay bashers or abortion bombers get a 60% sympathy rate like islamic terrorists enjoy - I don't see people dancing in ther street after one attacks. Maybe your state is different than Florida - but I doubt it. I think your bias is in the way of your perception.


radical Christians held inquisitions and crusades!

Really - can't you stay within the last century or two. Is your best argument something that - just maybe - my grandfathers great-grandfather's great-grandfather may be decended from?


There are murderers and rebel groups all over the world that aren't Islamic.
With popular support from religions and states? Really?

Drug dealers run around Detroit shooting each other, I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with Islam.
operating term - "eachother" And, aside from rap musicians - do these criminals enjoy popular support?

When the Japanese had planes smashing into American ships, where was Islam? [QUOTE=Frostguarde]
AFIK none of those ships were full of families eating pizza or shopping.

Were the Nazis Islamic? Napoleon? Stalin? No... Well, certainly they must have been, because they were all violent people and Islam is the only thing causing any problems in the world. Let's just go round 'em up, and kill them all! In the name of peace, of course. :(

What you have attempted to do, my friend, is rationalize. You may have fooled yourself on your first try - but nobody else. Sorry to burst your bubble.

(and - btw - The Nazis were rounded up and killed. Remember Nuremburg?

I know a great many Muslims. None of them have shown the slightest inclination towards killing people. Similarly, the vast majority of Christians are not Fred Phelps. It's not any religion that's a problem, it's the crazy bastards who use that religion as an excuse for their sociopathy.


AMEN to that brother! THe trouble is - that 60% or more of the people in the middle-east and other muslim regions support and sympathise with the terrorists. At that point the problem is greater than the sociaopaths. The good muslim leaders - if there are any left - are indicted by their profound silence. If some catholic priest statted issuing fatwas asking for death of his enemies in todays modern world - no christians would stand silently by and allow their church (or even a distantly affiliated one) to be co-opted. He would go down hard. At what point is an organization beyond repair or salvage? If the Muslims won't defend their religion from sociopaths why should they deserve it? When Afganistan wanted to murder someone for his religious opinion - no muslim nations stepped up to speak against that embarrasing zealotry. Not one. Thye Muslim nations and religion all experienced a HUGE drop in credibility and respect at that point. They had a point to really demonstrate they were about peace and respect for life. Their silence indicted them.

AMEN to that brother! THe trouble is - that 60% or more of the people in the middle-east and other muslim regions support and sympathise with the terrorists. At that point the problem is greater than the sociaopaths.

You have evidence that 60% of the world's 1.2 billion muslims support and sympathise with the (which?) terrorists?

(and - btw - The Nazis were rounded up and killed. Remember Nuremburg?

Wow? How many people did the execute at Nuremburg? I know of a couple they missed. ;)

Wow? How many people did the execute at Nuremburg? I know of a couple they missed. ;)

point them out to the guys in dark suits who should be knocking on your door...

right...



about...



now.






I'll have to dig up the statistics, but it may have to wait until tomorrow - Idol is almost on - Though it should not be too difficult since one terrorist group recently were voted into office in the Palestinian territories.

(blushes at revelation of my cheezy taste in entertainment)

The problem is with Islam. If Islam is really a "religion of peace" like they always say, then why do we only see suicide bombers coming out thier religion? You can say it's just a few "fringe radicals" but why do the terrorist consitantly come out of islams? Why do they have so many violent "fringe radicals"? It's because Muhammad founded his religion by waging bloody war on the local people and forcing them to renounce thier old religions or be killed. The whole religion is founded on blood and violence. That's why the middle east and northern africa are the most violent areas in the world. And don't say its violent because America is there. If America made things violent, then there would be war tribes roaming around michigan cutting people's hands off. But there aren't. If America made things violent, there would be people running into coffee houses screaming religious hysteria then blowing themselves and all the women and children around them to pieces. But there aren't. Islam is the only fact that consitantly contributes to the violence.
Perhaps a good dose of history will help you to focus on the wherefors and the whys? Reading the whole article might help you answer some of the questions that you asked.

"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War Il and the Folly Of Intervention (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html)

As the United States finds itself in the aftermath of another crisis in the Middle East, it is worth the risk of opprobrium to ask why there should be hostility toward America in that region. Some insight can be gained by surveying official U.S. conduct in the Middle East since the end of World War II.

Acknowledged herein is a fundamental, yet deplorably overlooked, distinction between understanding and excusing. The purpose of this survey is not to pardon acts of violence against innocent people but to understand the reasons that drive people to violent political acts.(2) The stubborn and often self-serving notion that the historical record is irrelevant because political violence is inexcusable ensures that Americans will be caught in crises in the Middle East and elsewhere for many years to come.

You were saying?

Someone is over-reacting to events that have personally affected them, colouring their opinions forever. As the article is admittedly not an objective source, all we can do is pity the author and hope we never descend to the same depths of irrationality and subjectivity.
I agree, with the additional comment regarding the source of the article (FrontPageMagazine) as being biased towards a pro-Israeli agenda.

...Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. No, but they did send them into war against well armed Allied and Soviet troops. Not much of a difference, in my opinion.

Why do you keep referring to America? ...

First the OP gave a URL, then an author's name. After the qotes, B0zzy wrote "Quotes posted in no particular order. ".

OP wasn't referring to anything but some ramblings by some chick named Brigitte.

Sounds like you must be a Muslim.

Sounds like you're in the running to beat UNA for the King of Trolls championship. Either that or you're intelligence is severely lacking.

[QUOTE=B0zzy]That's funny - I don't remember the last time any religious leaders in the states offered up a cash reward for the death of anyone who offended them over a book or cartoon... QUOTE]

No, they just suggested it would be a good idea to kill leader that the US didn't approve of (Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez).

I have a quote, From Edith Cavells statue (which makes her look a lot like a victorian jed) Which stands unremarked just off Trafalger Square in St Martins Lane.

"Patriotism is not enough, i must have no hatred or bitterness for anyone"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/Ac.cavell.JPG/339px-Ac.cavell.JPG

I don't think Europeans as a rule dislike Muslims. Most of the ones on this forum tend to defend Islamic cultures and nations whenever the debate comes up.Very few Europeans that hate other cultures can be bothered to learn English, so that might be why.

I'll have to dig up the statistics, but it may have to wait until tomorrow - Idol is almost on - Though it should not be too difficult since one terrorist group recently were voted into office in the Palestinian territories.

(blushes at revelation of my cheezy taste in entertainment)That may have a bit to do with the fact that Hamas doesn't just engage in terrorist activity. They also fund hospitals and schools, and that got them a big bonus with the population. The people were also yearning for an alternative to the corruption the PLO was pulling off.

I don't think that it was a good choice, but voting for Hamas instead of the PLO had many more reasons than that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

That's funny - I don't remember the last time any religious leaders in the states offered up a cash reward for the death of anyone who offended them over a book or cartoon...

No, they just suggested it would be a good idea to kill leader that the US didn't approve of (Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez).
I do believe that this thread is well named!!

"Because they hate"......indeed!!

That's funny - I don't remember the last time any religious leaders in the states offered up a cash reward for the death of anyone who offended them over a book or cartoon...

Only because Pat Robertson's a cheap bastard.

Also, note how many people actually went for the cash reward...

I do believe that this thread is well named!!

"Because they hate"......indeed!!


*shrug*

The why's and becauses are ( al usual ) irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is how to render our opponents helpless and submissive.

In some 5000-6000 years of human history, we know War to be constant, and Peace to be nothing but an intermission between Wars. That renders the phrase 'lasting peace' as meaningless, and desire for it as impractical.

A lot of the stuff coming out of the US these days is the same as the islamic extremist offerings - forcing our culture upon theirs

Compare the founding documents of America's culture to those of Islam. Contrast.

*shrug*

The why's and becauses are ( al usual ) irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is how to render our opponents helpless and submissive.

In some 5000-6000 years of human history, we know War to be constant, and Peace to be nothing but an intermission between Wars. That renders the phrase 'lasting peace' as meaningless, and desire for it as impractical.
All the more reason to focus on the "impossible dream" rather than get stuck in the perpetual "impossible mission".

If man is to evolve further, he must get past hate.

All the more reason to focus on the "impossible dream" rather than get stuck in the perpetual "impossible mission".

If man is to evolve further, he must get past hate.
Question is, can we do that before we destroy ourselves?

Question is, can we do that before we destroy ourselves?

Well? We survived to world wars and the cold war so there is a good chance.

Because Europeans (no offense) are sore losers. They lost the Crusades 8 or so times so naturally they're going to dislike them. And they killed their men. That might suck. And they invaded their land. Or at least the French, Spaniards, Austrians, Germanics, and other such peoples.

Considering that most persons in the West today hate conservative/traditional Christianity and despise the Christianity of the Crusades, it is highly unlikely that they would be against the Muslims because of the Crusades. Rather, they run to them still crying "Everyone hates the Muslims! We need to love them! Remember how they were persecuted during the Crusades!"

Don't misunderstand me: the Crusades ought not to have happened, and there were many atrocities. But everyone just forgets about the Muslims part in those atrocities: they weren't the victims all the time.

Or we can become Vulcans. Star Trek!!!:D

everyone knows that any jedi could kick Captain Kirks ass.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21364

Brigitte Gabriel
"...America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon.

...Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims.

...If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America’s learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.

...You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam.

...I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted “Allah Akbar!” My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel."

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York, or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon."

Quotes posted in no particular order. Please - share your thoughts.
Wow, you know what this reminds me of-

"The Jews are reponsible for everything bad in our lives! We should kill 'em all!"
-Hitler.

I think most Arabic Muslims are insane. I do, however, have American muslim friends. This lady has every right to be mad, however she is simply spitting out what they left her with: hate. She can't see that she is saying the same as her tormentors.

Question is, can we do that before we destroy ourselves?
Excellent question, but alas no one that I know of, has the answer. At best, all one can do is try to do their part. One day, there will be an answer.

[QUOTE=B0zzy]That's funny - I don't remember the last time any religious leaders in the states offered up a cash reward for the death of anyone who offended them over a book or cartoon... QUOTE]

No, they just suggested it would be a good idea to kill leader that the US didn't approve of (Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez).


And did you see people take to the streets cogratulating him? Passing out candy to children?

Ummm, no.

That may have a bit to do with the fact that Hamas doesn't just engage in terrorist activity. They also fund hospitals and schools, and that got them a big bonus with the population. The people were also yearning for an alternative to the corruption the PLO was pulling off.

I don't think that it was a good choice, but voting for Hamas instead of the PLO had many more reasons than that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

OIC - so as long as someone builds a few clinics and schools you're ok with them targeting and killing jewish schoolchildren. You get no argumen from me about PLO corruption - but that does not excuse voting for murderers. The Palestinian people now will have to live with the concenquences of their decision. They seem amazed that there are any at all.

Compare the founding documents of America's culture to those of Islam. Contrast.

Who the fuck are you - my goddam schoolteacher? Go order some fries - but don't order me to do shit. Do your own fucking contrast. Post it here. Then you can play.

*CanuckHeaven brings marshmallows to appropriately named thread!! :p

I'll have to dig up the statistics, but it may have to wait until tomorrow - Idol is almost on - Though it should not be too difficult since one terrorist group recently were voted into office in the Palestinian territories.

(blushes at revelation of my cheezy taste in entertainment)


I notice it is a day later and you have returned to the thread but without those statistics. Should I infer you didn't find proof that 60% of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims support terrorists?

I notice it is a day later and you have returned to the thread but without those statistics. Should I infer you didn't find proof that 60% of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims support terrorists?
He has been busy getting wasted in his other thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10711512&postcount=104

You are going to have to take a number. It appears that there is a lineup of posters waiting for some kind of proof.

OIC - so as long as someone builds a few clinics and schools you're ok with them targeting and killing jewish schoolchildren. You get no argumen from me about PLO corruption - but that does not excuse voting for murderers. The Palestinian people now will have to live with the concenquences of their decision. They seem amazed that there are any at all.To which I reply with my original post, only with a few bold things:
That may have a bit to do with the fact that Hamas doesn't just engage in terrorist activity. They also fund hospitals and schools, and that got them a big bonus with the population. The people were also yearning for an alternative to the corruption the PLO was pulling off.

I don't think that it was a good choice, but voting for Hamas instead of the PLO had many more reasons than that Hamas is a terrorist organization.I was trying to fool you with that. You guessed correctly; I get out a party hat and confetti whenever innocent Israelis get killed, and I bake a cake when it's children. I'm glad you missed that bold part. :rolleyes:

All the more reason to focus on the "impossible dream" rather than get stuck in the perpetual "impossible mission".

If man is to evolve further, he must get past hate.

Says who?

Man is as he is.
And as an aside - so is Woman.

Fine by me.

Says who?

Man is as he is.
And as an aside - so is Woman.

Fine by me.
I say so. The lyrics to the song "Put a Little Love in Your Heart" comes to mind.

Put A Little Love In Your Heart (http://www.annie-lennox.com/lyricsput.htm)

Until that day, we stay stuck with the "Eve of Destruction".

Eve of Destruction (http://www.letssingit.com/?/barry-mcguire-eve-of-destruction-s1m88lj.html)

I say so. The lyrics to the song "Put a Little Love in Your Heart" comes to mind.

Put A Little Love In Your Heart (http://www.annie-lennox.com/lyricsput.htm)

Until that day, we stay stuck with the "Eve of Destruction".

Eve of Destruction (http://www.letssingit.com/?/barry-mcguire-eve-of-destruction-s1m88lj.html)


OK, my turn for lyrics.

There's colors on the street
Red, white and blue
People shufflin' their feet
People sleepin' in their shoes
But there's a warnin' sign on the road ahead
There's a lot of people sayin' we'd be better off dead
Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them
So I try to forget it, any way I can.

Keep on rockin' in the free world,
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world,
Keep on rockin' in the free world.


or, alternatively:

I got my finger on the trigger
But I don't know who to trust
When I look into your eyes
There's just devils and dust...

pah, she is reacting on personal experience, im sure i would have the same views had it happened to me, however it is because it is not me that i can see how irrational she is being

pah, she is reacting on personal experience, im sure i would have the same views had it happened to me, however it is because it is not me that i can see how irrational she is being


But many people are irrational. It's simply a given fact.

Which leads me to reiterate my position:

the why's and becauses are irrelevant,
the only thing that matters is how to win.

I notice it is a day later and you have returned to the thread but without those statistics. Should I infer you didn't find proof that 60% of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims support terrorists?


#$%%#@@!@#%$%.!!!!!

There - got it out of my system. That was not at you - it was at Jolt. I had a nice and thoughtful reply - hit 'submit' and poof! Gone. THe Jolt login screen appeared.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hit back and it was all goned.

dang dang dang dang dang dang dang!!!!!!!


So here is the considerably-more-brief-not-nearly-so-thought-provoking-as-my-original-response.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/01052006002.htm
http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/article_2298.jsp

You'll have to draw your own conclusions and inferences. It should not be hard - even for you.

Sorry it took the better part of a week - I frankly thought the election results were adequate.

#$%%#@@!@#%$%.!!!!!

There - got it out of my system. That was not at you - it was at Jolt. I had a nice and thoughtful reply - hit 'submit' and poof! Gone. THe Jolt login screen appeared.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hit back and it was all goned.

dang dang dang dang dang dang dang!!!!!!!


So here is the considerably-more-brief-not-nearly-so-thought-provoking-as-my-original-response.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/01052006002.htm
http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/article_2298.jsp

You'll have to draw your own conclusions and inferences. It should not be hard - even for you.

Sorry it took the better part of a week - I frankly thought the election results were adequate.

According to the survey, 72.2 per cent of the polled national sample consider Al Qaeda in Iraq to be a terrorist organisation, while only 6.2 per cent said it was a legitimate resistance movement. A majority of public opinion leaders regarded both Ben Laden and Zarqawi's Al Qaeda as terrorist groups.


After a whole week, the best you could do was proof of the opposite of your assertion?

My hat is off too you for chutzpah.

After a whole week, the best you could do was proof of the opposite of your assertion?

My hat is off too you for chutzpah.


You didn't read very far, did you. Once again I am guilty of overestimating you.

"According to a study published by the University of Jordan's Centre for Strategic Studies (CSS), the percentage of respondents who consider Osama Ben Laden's Al Qaeda organisation as a legitimate resistance group dropped from 66.8 per cent in 2004 to 20 per cent in December 2005. "
"The poll was carried out (in Jordan) between Dec. 1 and 7 to gauge public opinion on the issue of terrorism, especially following the bombings that rocked three Amman hotels and killed 60 people."

Obviously - their support of terrorism changes when THEY are the target. In fact - their entire PERCEPTION of terrorism is contingient on who they perceive is the target - as clarified in the second article; (I know - you have to click twice - I thought you could handle it...)

"The four events listed at the bottom of table 2 (below) were labelled terrorist acts by less than a quarter of respondents, with the exception of the Lebanese national sample. The theme of these four acts is that they were committed against Israelis and Americans in Palestine and Iraq. In contrast, the first four acts listed in the table were seen as terrorist acts by overwhelming majorities in these samples. The theme that runs through these acts is that they were acts committed against Arabs by Israelis and Americans in Palestine and Iraq. "

What is most telling is that your argument is based on the misguided assumption that Al-quaida is the only terrorist organization in the world. You completely ignore The Islamic Jihad Movement, Hamas, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Hizbullah - which On average, across country and sample categories, around 90% of respondents labelled as “legitimate resistance organisations.” The exception here is Lebanon, where a lower but still significant two thirds defined them as “legitimate resistance organisations”.

Once again you have demonstrated not only your very narrow "tunnel vision" line-of-thinking (only within your own agenda), but also your complete lack of ability to construct a logical connection between related facts without someone else laying it out before you.

You didn't read very far, did you. Once again I am guilty of overestimating you.

"According to a study published by the University of Jordan's Centre for Strategic Studies (CSS), the percentage of respondents who consider Osama Ben Laden's Al Qaeda organisation as a legitimate resistance group dropped from 66.8 per cent in 2004 to 20 per cent in December 2005. "
"The poll was carried out (in Jordan) between Dec. 1 and 7 to gauge public opinion on the issue of terrorism, especially following the bombings that rocked three Amman hotels and killed 60 people."

Obviously - their support of terrorism changes when THEY are the target. In fact - their entire PERCEPTION of terrorism is contingient on who they perceive is the target - as clarified in the second article; (I know - you have to click twice - I thought you could handle it...)

"The four events listed at the bottom of table 2 (below) were labelled terrorist acts by less than a quarter of respondents, with the exception of the Lebanese national sample. The theme of these four acts is that they were committed against Israelis and Americans in Palestine and Iraq. In contrast, the first four acts listed in the table were seen as terrorist acts by overwhelming majorities in these samples. The theme that runs through these acts is that they were acts committed against Arabs by Israelis and Americans in Palestine and Iraq. "

What is most telling is that your argument is based on the misguided assumption that Al-quaida is the only terrorist organization in the world. You completely ignore The Islamic Jihad Movement, Hamas, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Hizbullah - which On average, across country and sample categories, around 90% of respondents labelled as “legitimate resistance organisations.” The exception here is Lebanon, where a lower but still significant two thirds defined them as “legitimate resistance organisations”.

Once again you have demonstrated not only your very narrow "tunnel vision" line-of-thinking (only within your own agenda), but also your complete lack of ability to construct a logical connection between related facts without someone else laying it out before you.

This is sad.

You come to the forums every few days to make insults and move the goalposts. I hope this amuses you because it does me.

I read both articles thoroughly. They were rather interesting. They did not support your premise. They showed a disagreement between you and the members of some nations as to what constitutes terrorism. They did not show that 60% of the muslim world supports terrorism as you claimed.

This is sad.

You come to the forums every few days to make insults and move the goalposts. I hope this amuses you because it does me.

I read both articles thoroughly. They were rather interesting. They did not support your premise. They showed a disagreement between you and the members of some nations as to what constitutes terrorism. They did not show that 60% of the muslim world supports terrorism as you claimed.

Wow - your blinders are quite amazing. Do they work well for snowskiing too?

I can't believe you can't even see the light after this;
The Islamic Jihad Movement, Hamas, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Hizbullah - which On average, across country and sample categories, around 90% of respondents labelled as “legitimate resistance organisations.” The exception here is Lebanon, where a lower but still significant two thirds defined them as “legitimate resistance organisations”. I mean - you really have to TRY to miss that one.

BTW - your old bait me then crying "waaa you're insulting me!" to my every reply is not only grossly immature, it is quite stale. Please - find a new and refreshing way to be annoying.