NationStates Jolt Archive


If you don't fight, is the outcome your fault?

Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 19:51
Some of you may remember last week that my five-year-old nephew was denied access to the washroom, and ended up messing himself, then was either ignored or forced to remain soiled until he went home. Well, I wrote a very reasonable letter for my sister-in-law to take to the school, outlining what had happened, why it was unacceptable, and what should be done to rectify the situation. But she won't send the letter.

She is afraid that her son will bear the brunt of any retaliation. So she is dropping it.

In my mind, her failure to act, her failure to fight, makes the outcome of this her fault. The outcome will be that nothing will happen to make this right, and nothing will be done to prevent if from happening in the future.

However, I don't believe that the original event is in any way her fault. Neither her son, nor she, had any power over what happened.

But to what extent must people take responsibility for defending their rights? I know I would fight...but they never do. My in-laws take everything lying down. It's not that they don't see these things as unjust, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. I know it comes from living under a dictatorship for so many years, and I know they are uncertain because they are immigrants, and not comfortable with the language. But I still can not understand how a mother could not raise a finger to defend her child. Intellectually I get it. Emotionally I just can't.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 19:53
I guess my associated question is, "how much can you or I do to defend the rights of someone who is afraid (or powerless) to defend themselves".
Romanar
05-04-2006, 19:57
I guess my associated question is, "how much can you or I do to defend the rights of someone who is afraid (or powerless) to defend themselves".

Probably not much. I agree that your SIL should send the letter, but it's up to her to do so.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 19:59
Probably not much. I agree that your SIL should send the letter, but it's up to her to do so.
However, in this particular case, a minor is involved. Situations involving minors and abuse or neglect, under law, must be reported.

And yet I can't very well go and do that.
Sumamba Buwhan
05-04-2006, 20:02
If you dont take steps to create the world you want to live in you deserve what comes your way. Of course the kid doesnt deserve the consequences of the parents inaction.
Smunkeeville
05-04-2006, 20:02
I see what you are trying to say Sinuhue.

I used to have a bookmark in my Bible that said "evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing"

it always bothered people when they read it, they would say "so, if I see something is wrong and I don't do anything to fix it then it's my fault that it happens?" and I would say "no, it's your fault that it continues to happen"
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:05
If you dont take steps to create the world you want to live in you deserve what comes your way. Of course the kid doesnt deserve the consequences of the parents inaction.
They believe the outcome will be better because of their inaction.

I'm just tired of trying to help them. I have to accept that they have, through their inaction, helped to create the problems they encounter. They choose to live in a poor neighbourhood, and have their children attend substandard schools. My husband could have bought them a house anywhere else, but they stayed there. When they get screwed out of wages, I do up all the paperwork to get it back...and they don't bother pursuing it. I'm sick of it all...they need help getting jobs so I do up their resumes, help them job search, send out applications for them...and then they never ever follow up on things. Why the hell do they keep asking then?
Carisbrooke
05-04-2006, 20:05
I think that the incident is terrible, I am totally appaled that this should happen to a child. It is the sort of thing that leaves me very angry.

That said, I can kind of see where your sister-in-law is coming from by being concerned about rocking the boat, but there is a line that gets crossed over which you HAVE to act, I am a fairly passive person and take a whole lot of crap before I get really mad. But this situation is unnaceptable, it is abusive and damaging to prevent a child access to a toilet. I would be making sure that something was done, I have to say that by doing nothing, you make the action seem acceptable in some perverse way. I am a Mum first and foremost and my children come first for me, I fought against the school because of issues with my son, I felt that as though I owed him that. He never did suffer as a consequence, because at all times I remained calm, reasonable, rational and polite, but I did not back down because I KNEW I was in the right.

I would be tempted to send the letter myself, if it was my nephew and this happened. It is the most horrible thing for the poor boy to endure and it must never happen again.

I am so sorry for him.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:06
I see what you are trying to say Sinuhue.

I used to have a bookmark in my Bible that said "evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing"

it always bothered people when they read it, they would say "so, if I see something is wrong and I don't do anything to fix it then it's my fault that it happens?" and I would say "no, it's your fault that it continues to happen"
That's exactly it. Nothing has been done to ensure this won't happen to some other child. When people stand by and do nothing, they can actually be putting others in danger. To me, it's totally irresponsible. With rights, come responsibilities.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:10
I would be tempted to send the letter myself, if it was my nephew and this happened. It is the most horrible thing for the poor boy to endure and it must never happen again.

I am so sorry for him.
I've considered it...but they'll be the ones contacted, and there will be no hiding what I did. Right now, I don't even think I can talk to them. I know, I KNOW I shouldn't judge...they think they are doing the right thing...but I'm disgusted. Disgusted, and angry, because that school is full of children with parents who are too scared to do anything...and this family at least has me to help stick up for them. Hmmm. I guess I feel a bit betrayed that they don't trust me enough to have me stick up for them? That might be part of why I'm so upset.
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 20:10
I certainly wouldn't consider it her fault if she didn't complain. It's STILL the schools fault, but they are now getting away with it, and it will probably happen to some other kid at some point. And, to be honest with you, I hope some kid feels sick and pukes all the way up and down the hallway, all over the classroom floor and then right over the teacher, filling her shoes with vomit. Only when nature retaliates like that will ignorant people like that learn.

Hope your nephew is feeling better and is getting over his unfortunate, and embarrassing situation.
Smunkeeville
05-04-2006, 20:11
They believe the outcome will be better because of their inaction.

I'm just tired of trying to help them. I have to accept that they have, through their inaction, helped to create the problems they encounter. They choose to live in a poor neighbourhood, and have their children attend substandard schools. My husband could have bought them a house anywhere else, but they stayed there. When they get screwed out of wages, I do up all the paperwork to get it back...and they don't bother pursuing it. I'm sick of it all...they need help getting jobs so I do up their resumes, help them job search, send out applications for them...and then they never ever follow up on things. Why the hell do they keep asking then?

I have people in my family like that and they annoy the crap out of me. My aunt for example does my granfather's financial stuff, and she bitches a lot about how much his medication costs, and even bullied his doctor into letting him take half doses so that a months prescription would last 2 months, so now he is sick and she is still pissed off about how much his meds cost. I filled out the paperwork for him to get the meds free from the drug company, it was a one page form with his name, address, social security number, how much money he gets a month, and how much his bills are, I put it in an envelope, I stamped it, and she won't send it in. She doesn't want "charity", it's bullshit. Why whine about a situation and then when a solution comes to you, refuse to take action?! I don't understand.

although I am not much of a whiner anymore, since N.A., that serinity prayer has really helped me keep prospective. (probably she is one of those things I can't control though right?...........it's the wisdom thing that I need to work on.)
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 20:12
I'd still make it public (not mentioning his name of course), by writing a very angry letter to the local newspaper
Vittos Ordination2
05-04-2006, 20:13
I guess my associated question is, "how much can you or I do to defend the rights of someone who is afraid (or powerless) to defend themselves".

In this situation, not much. In a sense, the mother is taking this one on the child to further protect the child's rights. So there is action there, regardless if you agree with the situation.

I think the best action is to appeal to someone who can actually win the fight. Whether that be the public or a superior, they will fare much better than you, your sister, or your nephew.

With that said, I do believe there is an obligation to defend those who are afraid to defend themselves. Just in this situation, presumably you can offer no defense that the woman cannot provide herself.
Sumamba Buwhan
05-04-2006, 20:14
They believe the outcome will be better because of their inaction.

I'm just tired of trying to help them. I have to accept that they have, through their inaction, helped to create the problems they encounter. They choose to live in a poor neighbourhood, and have their children attend substandard schools. My husband could have bought them a house anywhere else, but they stayed there. When they get screwed out of wages, I do up all the paperwork to get it back...and they don't bother pursuing it. I'm sick of it all...they need help getting jobs so I do up their resumes, help them job search, send out applications for them...and then they never ever follow up on things. Why the hell do they keep asking then?

right, I understand the fear of becoming a target when questioning authority, and it doesnt matter if you are in a third world dictator ship or a 1st world democracy... you can still be put thru a lot fo shit.

With you helping them though, being a good example of what one can accomplish when one works and fights for it, they really have no excuse to do nothing at all.

If I were you I would let them fail on their own if they constantly refused the help I provided for them. WHen they asked again for help I would give an ultimatum... take action ont eh help I give you or do it yoruself as I cite past examples.
Carisbrooke
05-04-2006, 20:18
What exactly do they think is going to happen if they do complain and stand up for their child? I mean to say, the school already treated him in an inhuman manner and forced him into a humiliating and horrible situation, what do they think will happen to him if they complain about this?
something bad will happen to their son? wake up people! it already did.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:20
I'd still make it public (not mentioning his name of course), by writing a very angry letter to the local newspaper
Coincidentally, something has come up to quash any thoughts of such an action. Three Alberta parents and an educational consulting group were fined more than $51,000 in damages to several teachers and the teacher's association after found guilty of defamation. In the judgment it was noted that reasonable steps must be attempted first, and that malicious damage of the reputation of a teacher is not allowed. Going straight to a newspaper without first raising the concerns properly could be construed as malicious.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:21
What exactly do they think is going to happen if they do complain and stand up for their child? I mean to say, the school already treated him in an inhuman manner and forced him into a humiliating and horrible situation, what do they think will happen to him if they complain about this?
something bad will happen to their son? wake up people! it already did.
They believe the teacher will treat their son badly. And they have a point. One of their children had a teacher who refused to answer any of her questions. This teacher flat out ignored her. They complained many times to the school, and tried to get their child moved to another class, all with no result.

It is certainly possible, that the teacher could make life hard for this child...and proving it would be difficult.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:26
In this situation, not much. In a sense, the mother is taking this one on the child to further protect the child's rights. So there is action there, regardless if you agree with the situation. You're right. They do really believe this is the best course of action. I see it as inaction because of my belief in what should be done.

I think the best action is to appeal to someone who can actually win the fight. Whether that be the public or a superior, they will fare much better than you, your sister, or your nephew. There is no one else. Concerns must first be raised by the parents. I am intimately acquainted with the process:( Even if they had a lawyer, the lawyer would have to compell her to initiate the process herself, and move in only after appropriate steps had been taken.

With that said, I do believe there is an obligation to defend those who are afraid to defend themselves. Just in this situation, presumably you can offer no defense that the woman cannot provide herself.
I guess that is true. But that is true in many cases. The responsibility for protecting your rights falls mainly on you. You can have someone act on your behalf, but you must consent to that. And if people are too afraid to consent...what then? They wait for someone else to fight a similar battle, and hope things will change for all.
OceanDrive2
05-04-2006, 20:28
I certainly wouldn't consider it her fault if she didn't complain. I agree 100%.. It's STILL the schools fault...I wont advance a Judgment until I know the details..
What is the version of the School? what is the background of this incident? etc..
*edit*
<< I would side against the school only because the kid is 5.. (my post would apply more to 8-17 years olds) And, to be honest with you, I hope some kid feels sick and pukes all the way up and down the hallway, all over the classroom floor and then right over the teacher, filling her shoes with vomit. Only when nature retaliates like that will ignorant people like that learn....depending on the Geographical Legislation.. I Would ask the parents to pay for the cleaning.
Carnivorous Lickers
05-04-2006, 20:28
Some of you may remember last week that my five-year-old nephew was denied access to the washroom, and ended up messing himself, then was either ignored or forced to remain soiled until he went home. Well, I wrote a very reasonable letter for my sister-in-law to take to the school, outlining what had happened, why it was unacceptable, and what should be done to rectify the situation. But she won't send the letter.

She is afraid that her son will bear the brunt of any retaliation. So she is dropping it.

In my mind, her failure to act, her failure to fight, makes the outcome of this her fault. The outcome will be that nothing will happen to make this right, and nothing will be done to prevent if from happening in the future.

However, I don't believe that the original event is in any way her fault. Neither her son, nor she, had any power over what happened.

But to what extent must people take responsibility for defending their rights? I know I would fight...but they never do. My in-laws take everything lying down. It's not that they don't see these things as unjust, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. I know it comes from living under a dictatorship for so many years, and I know they are uncertain because they are immigrants, and not comfortable with the language. But I still can not understand how a mother could not raise a finger to defend her child. Intellectually I get it. Emotionally I just can't.


Sin- "The Meek will inherit the Earth" and all that. I dont really agree with that.

Some people fight and some dont. You know I would have been there in person immediately and the first person that spoke out of turn to me would have been dropped like a bad habit. I always deal proactively with most things-people get the impression I mean business and in my opinion, it saves me further grief down the road.
I'm no one's door mat-and I'm not rainsing my kids to be that way either.

Do I like confrontations and adversarial relationships- No! But when some of these officials and administrators see they have bold, unflinching people to answer to, they more often than not, manage to do the right thing.

I hope for your nephew and his parent's sake- this just goes away as a bad and rapidly fading memory. they've made their choice.

I'd say let it die now.
Pompous Windbags
05-04-2006, 20:29
When I was in Grade 1 we had a lousy teacher. One day a little girl asked if she could be excused to go to the washroom and was told no. A few minutes later she asked again, stressing that she 'really had to go'. Again the teacher said no. A few minutes later my classmate wet her pants while quietly sobbing at her desk. The poor girl was humiliated, and what for? So someone could prove they had power over her? I'm 50 years old, so this happened some 45 years ago, and I still vividly remember how bad I felt for my classmate. Gives you some idea how damaging the incident could be.

The letter should be sent. If nothing happens go higher. Go to the media. Scream bloody murder. This was child abuse.

More to the point, if you see something wrong and do nothing to prevent it, if it happens again you are culpable.
Vittos Ordination2
05-04-2006, 20:30
You're right. They do really believe this is the best course of action. I see it as inaction because of my belief in what should be done.

There is no one else. Concerns must first be raised by the parents. I am intimately acquainted with the process:( Even if they had a lawyer, the lawyer would have to compell her to initiate the process herself, and move in only after appropriate steps had been taken.


I guess that is true. But that is true in many cases. The responsibility for protecting your rights falls mainly on you. You can have someone act on your behalf, but you must consent to that. And if people are too afraid to consent...what then? They wait for someone else to fight a similar battle, and hope things will change for all.

Yes, all agreed. These people need to get out and let this abuse known, the reaction here shows that they would recieve public backing.

The worse thing about this is that they are conditioning the child to take abuse as well. If he is made hopeless as a child, he will assume that role as an adult.:(
Carnivorous Lickers
05-04-2006, 20:33
They believe the teacher will treat their son badly. And they have a point. One of their children had a teacher who refused to answer any of her questions. This teacher flat out ignored her. They complained many times to the school, and tried to get their child moved to another class, all with no result.

It is certainly possible, that the teacher could make life hard for this child...and proving it would be difficult.


Your inlaws, unfortunately, have valid concerns.

I still say-any teacher that can - 1. Leave a child in their own filth such as your nephew or - 2. ignore a child as retribution, is a reprehensible scum bag and should not have any position where they are responsible for reasonable care and custody of children.

They should be selling tickets in an adult XXX theatre-or cleaning its bathrooms.

These teachers wont have a rock to hide under when internet cameras become more prevalent in schools.

Fuck them.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:35
I'd say let it die now.
As with so many battles they've involved me in, then let drop, I have no choice. Dead it is.
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 20:40
I agree 100%..I wont advance a Judgment until I know the details..
What is the version of the School? what is the background of this incident? etc..

Here ( http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=474872) is the original thread, detailing what happened. The thread also includes all the things people thought I should do, so we don't need a bunch of that here. No further action is going to be taken, so that part of the conversation doesn't need to flow-over into this thread.

Instead, we can focus on what can be done to help advocate for the rights of those who are unwilling, for whatever reason, to do it themselves.
Asbena
05-04-2006, 20:42
I had a terrible 3rd grade teacher named Mrs. Simpson. She thought I lied and was a tattle-tail (Even after being hurt and downright abused) and threatened to put a donkey tail on me and make me walk around with it all day.

I told mom and the school was PISSED at her. She later got her teaching license removed because of the sheer number of complaints and problems. My brother was supposed to have this teacher, as soon as my mother made a call the office said they would switch him out of her class, before she even said what teacher he was going to have.

You may not see a change immediately....but oh boy can it sure bring down a teacher when combined. This thing though is so bad that it could get her license suspended.
Kibolonia
05-04-2006, 20:49
You should send the letter. If this kid doesn't have parents who will stand up for him when he's a small child, the last thing he needs is someone else abdicating their responsibility to him, however tenuious it might be. The fact of the matter is that you're not his parent isn't an issue in this case. How he was treated was patently unacceptable for anyone's child, irrespective of familial relationships. People's health and well being were put in jepordey for, at best, the emotional convience of another trusted with their care. People who are too small and inexperienced to assert their own rights, which are incidentaly inate, and what are at issue. Will you be the last person who should have stood up for him and failed to? Is that the kind of person you want to be?
Balipo
05-04-2006, 20:53
I see what you are trying to say Sinuhue.

I used to have a bookmark in my Bible that said "evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing"

it always bothered people when they read it, they would say "so, if I see something is wrong and I don't do anything to fix it then it's my fault that it happens?" and I would say "no, it's your fault that it continues to happen"

How odd that this was the premise to the movie Boondock Saints?

At any rate. I think a major part of this issue is a person's perception of their position in the pecking order </alliteration>.

I have been in similar situations where it seemed like leaving well enough alone was the better option. However, if she doesn't stand up for a child, that child will not be prepared to stand up for themselves as an adult.

Giving kids the tools they need is often best done by example. IF she explains to her son (although he is a tiny tot) that this needs to be done, he will see the importance of it eventually.

A letter is a good way to handle it. I like it better than frivolous law suits and big media campaigns. Most organizations respond well to letter writing. It shows you took the time to address the issue and expect a proper response.
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 21:05
Coincidentally, something has come up to quash any thoughts of such an action. Three Alberta parents and an educational consulting group were fined more than $51,000 in damages to several teachers and the teacher's association after found guilty of defamation. In the judgment it was noted that reasonable steps must be attempted first, and that malicious damage of the reputation of a teacher is not allowed. Going straight to a newspaper without first raising the concerns properly could be construed as malicious.

OK, they do things differently in Canada than they do in Ireland. Back home, you have a right to tell people if you've been mistreated without fear of a backlash.

Something needs to be done, otherwise this will happen again. And it might happen to your nephew again, distroying what little confidence he has left. Can you ask your sister in law to give you permission to talk to the school about this? Then she doesn't have to deal with them, and they go through you. Tell the school you were watching him afterwards because your sister in law had an appointment or something, tell them that you know more than she does about the situation (even if you don't, who's going to know), and therefore, everything is to go through you. Either that or tell them that your sister in law doesn't speak very good English or something and that you're helping out
Sinuhue
05-04-2006, 21:09
OK, they do things differently in Canada than they do in Ireland. Back home, you have a right to tell people if you've been mistreated without fear of a backlash. You have that right here too. That doesn't mean that right will be respected...and it is very difficult to prove any sort of harassment or discrimination when it is manifested in slightly lower grades on subjective assignments, or a lack of extra help, or even a cold attitude.

Something needs to be done, otherwise this will happen again. And it might happen to your nephew again, distroying what little confidence he has left. Can you ask your sister in law to give you permission to talk to the school about this? Then she doesn't have to deal with them, and they go through you. Tell the school you were watching him afterwards because your sister in law had an appointment or something, tell them that you know more than she does about the situation (even if you don't, who's going to know), and therefore, everything is to go through you. Either that or tell them that your sister in law doesn't speak very good English or something and that you're helping out
I've already asked, and she refused, because regardless of who the school deals with, my sister-in-law believes her son will suffer for any boat rocking. I'd be more than willing to be their advocate and do all the work. But they fear the consequences. That fear outweighs their anger. Without their consent, I haven't a leg to stand on.
The Chosen of Hastur
05-04-2006, 21:10
Some of you may remember last week that my five-year-old nephew was denied access to the washroom, and ended up messing himself, then was either ignored or forced to remain soiled until he went home. Well, I wrote a very reasonable letter for my sister-in-law to take to the school, outlining what had happened, why it was unacceptable, and what should be done to rectify the situation. But she won't send the letter.

She is afraid that her son will bear the brunt of any retaliation. So she is dropping it.

In my mind, her failure to act, her failure to fight, makes the outcome of this her fault. The outcome will be that nothing will happen to make this right, and nothing will be done to prevent if from happening in the future.

However, I don't believe that the original event is in any way her fault. Neither her son, nor she, had any power over what happened.

But to what extent must people take responsibility for defending their rights? I know I would fight...but they never do. My in-laws take everything lying down. It's not that they don't see these things as unjust, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. I know it comes from living under a dictatorship for so many years, and I know they are uncertain because they are immigrants, and not comfortable with the language. But I still can not understand how a mother could not raise a finger to defend her child. Intellectually I get it. Emotionally I just can't.

:headbang:

I have a daughter who is also in Senior Kindergarten.
Most of her fellow students are either first generation Canadians or landed immigrants.

I'm surprised that his teacher didn't notice he had soiled himself.
I think you should email a letter to his teacher and the school principal's attention, explaining the situation as you have described above and why you are involved.
They need to be made aware of this as it may not be the only instance this has occured. Ensure your nephew gets recognition for his contribution to raise his self-esteem and a public formal appology from those involved in the act.

I usually set a respond time of 7 working days for items like this.
Then, if I find the answer is not satisfactory, then I escalate it to the next higher authority and C.C. those involved.

Recently, I had a problem with a service I recently purchased.
They were not billing me in the method I had directed them to use.
I tracked all my correspondance, including the initial purchase agreement
and ended up with not having to pay for the service for three months AND getting and personal MP3 player as well.
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 21:12
...depending on the Geographical Legislation.. I Would ask the parents to pay for the cleaning.

And as a parent, I would refuse if the bathrooms were locked, and tell them that my child had no other choice. If they're willing to let a child sit in his own waste for several hours, I'm willing to let them clean up the vomit he had no choice other than to leave on the floor. Locking bathrooms in a school is criminal. If they're worried about kids causing trouble in there, station someone in there during breaks so that trouble can be averted. The very least they could have done was made it clear to kids on where to go and what to do in case they needed the bathroom during break times. It's fine to keep all but one bathroom closed, or two if it's a co-ed school, as ong as the kids know which was to go and who to ask if they're in trouble.
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 21:17
Recently, I had a problem with a service I recently purchased.
They were not billing me in the method I had directed them to use.
I tracked all my correspondance, including the initial purchase agreement
and ended up with not having to pay for the service for three months AND getting and personal MP3 player as well.

Kick ass girl! I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to argue for what they want. It takes guts, but you always end up getting more than what you originally asked for if you point out how they screwed up!
Krakozha
05-04-2006, 21:20
I've already asked, and she refused, because regardless of who the school deals with, my sister-in-law believes her son will suffer for any boat rocking. I'd be more than willing to be their advocate and do all the work. But they fear the consequences. That fear outweighs their anger. Without their consent, I haven't a leg to stand on.

It's sad to say that it looks like you might not have any other choices then. Try to talk your sister in law into complaining to the school, not the teacher, but the school itself, take the matter to the principle, surely the teacher herself didn't decide that the bathrooms would be locked (unless it's a school that caters for a small number of kids, only enough to fill one class). If you know, professionally speaking, how the situation will be handled (at least roughly), tell them what they can expect, and tell them how issuing a complaint will benefit their son in the long run.
OceanDrive2
05-04-2006, 22:37
And as a parent, I would refuse if the bathrooms were locked, and tell them that my child had no other choice. If they're willing to let a child sit in his own waste for several hours, I'm willing to let them clean up the vomit he had no choice other than to leave on the floor. Locking bathrooms in a school is criminal. If they're worried about kids causing trouble in there, station someone in there during breaks so that trouble can be averted. The very least they could have done was made it clear to kids on where to go and what to do in case they needed the bathroom during break times. It's fine to keep all but one bathroom closed, or two if it's a co-ed school, as ong as the kids know which was to go and who to ask if they're in trouble.Like I said I wont defend the School.. Only because The kid is 5 years old.

If the Kid was a teen.. I would probably take the argument (If nobody else does)..
Tekania
05-04-2006, 22:42
Some of you may remember last week that my five-year-old nephew was denied access to the washroom, and ended up messing himself, then was either ignored or forced to remain soiled until he went home. Well, I wrote a very reasonable letter for my sister-in-law to take to the school, outlining what had happened, why it was unacceptable, and what should be done to rectify the situation. But she won't send the letter.

She is afraid that her son will bear the brunt of any retaliation. So she is dropping it.

In my mind, her failure to act, her failure to fight, makes the outcome of this her fault. The outcome will be that nothing will happen to make this right, and nothing will be done to prevent if from happening in the future.

However, I don't believe that the original event is in any way her fault. Neither her son, nor she, had any power over what happened.

But to what extent must people take responsibility for defending their rights? I know I would fight...but they never do. My in-laws take everything lying down. It's not that they don't see these things as unjust, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. I know it comes from living under a dictatorship for so many years, and I know they are uncertain because they are immigrants, and not comfortable with the language. But I still can not understand how a mother could not raise a finger to defend her child. Intellectually I get it. Emotionally I just can't.

Extremely logical... Failure to act against a wrong is supporting the future commital of the wrong by other parties, thus the person who does not act to prevent it, while knowing about it, is as guilty as the one actually performing the wrongful act.
Jocabia
05-04-2006, 23:32
I guess my associated question is, "how much can you or I do to defend the rights of someone who is afraid (or powerless) to defend themselves".

Go to the school and address it yourself. If they are flippant about your apporaching them, approach the media. Go to the board. Go to the local government. Go to activist groups. Do something.

The answer is YES, a thousand times yes. When people refuse to stand up for themselves, it's actually a selfish act. When you or I don't stop injustice then we leave it to others to deal with.

You know about it. It's your problem now. You're not powerless. ACT!
Jocabia
05-04-2006, 23:37
You have that right here too. That doesn't mean that right will be respected...and it is very difficult to prove any sort of harassment or discrimination when it is manifested in slightly lower grades on subjective assignments, or a lack of extra help, or even a cold attitude.


I've already asked, and she refused, because regardless of who the school deals with, my sister-in-law believes her son will suffer for any boat rocking. I'd be more than willing to be their advocate and do all the work. But they fear the consequences. That fear outweighs their anger. Without their consent, I haven't a leg to stand on.

Bullocks. You are a citizen of the community. Your money goes to the school. You have every right to be concerned and your sister-in-law is being selfish by leaving this problem to someone else to solve. This is the problem with much of the western world - our lives are too good. We accept the these indignities because addressing them doesn't seem worth it when our lives are so good. And, unfortunately, the people whose lives are not so good general don't have the ability or the power to address the problems.

Your sister-in-law's decision to not act is unfortunate, but I believe there is a decision for you to make as well. Are you willing to support injustice or are you willing to stand up and end it?
Evenrue
06-04-2006, 18:34
Yes, it is. Not completely but undeniably yes. I would send it for her. Call the news stations! Call the mayor! It doesn't matter if it is your own child or not. This can not be allowed to happen. This is abuse and legally you are supposed to report it.
Jocabia
06-04-2006, 18:44
Yes, it is. Not completely but undeniably yes. I would send it for her. Call the news stations! Call the mayor! It doesn't matter if it is your own child or not. This can not be allowed to happen. This is abuse and legally you are supposed to report it.

Exactly. There is no question that the behavior of the school was abusive. How can one turn a blind eye to it?