NationStates Jolt Archive

Interesting
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/05/maryland-countys-red-light-cameras-net-2-85-million-increase/

Camera's increase ticket income 2.85 million but there also has been a major increase in accidents (from what I can see 10-50 percent increase)

tailgating is the real cause but that's not going to stop soon so they should get rid of the cameras.

Interesting
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/05/maryland-countys-red-light-cameras-net-2-85-million-increase/

Camera's increase ticket income 2.85 million but there also has been a major increase in accidents (from what I can see 10-50 percent increase)
Surely rear-end collisions from stopping abruptly are quite a bit less deadly than head-on collisions caused by jumping traffic lights?

Surely rear-end collisions from stopping abruptly are quite a bit less deadly than head-on collisions caused by jumping traffic lights?
Exactly. I would rather be rear ended then T-boned. Of course I'm not stupid enough to run a red light so...
I would be soooo evil if I were a cop. NO MERCY!

Surely rear-end collisions from stopping abruptly are quite a bit less deadly than head-on collisions caused by jumping traffic lights?
Not sure ... in fact I have not seen any good stats that show that these in fact reduce head on collisions (though really are "head on" collisions what really happens when running a read light ... I would guess more side swipe collisions)

People should just learn to drive. If you can't drive at a safe distance from another vehicle your license should be taken. If you see the light changing to yellow when you still have enough room to stop before the intersection but decide to floor it instead, your license should be taken.

People should just learn to drive. If you can't drive at a safe distance from another vehicle your license should be taken. If you see the light changing to yellow when you still have enough room to stop before the intersection but decide to floor it instead, your license should be taken.
For the most part I agree

But I seem to remember a few people deciding to make last second lane changes and cut me off as we are stoping for a light

For the most part I agree

But I seem to remember a few people deciding to make last second lane changes and cut me off as we are stoping for a light
Oh, yeah, that's also true. You're not tailgating, but some person who's had about 2km to decide where he has to go next thinks it's ok to make the change in the last 30m. I hate those people.

Surely rear-end collisions from stopping abruptly are quite a bit less deadly than head-on collisions caused by jumping traffic lights?

However the number of accidents that were not rear-end collisions were 54 at the beginning of the study and 60 at the end of the study, so there is no evidence in an overall decrease in the more deadly accidents. There is, however, a large increase in rear-end collisions from 53 at the beginning of the study to 74 at the end with total accidents up from 107 to 134. Considering the non-rear-end accidents are up 10% in accordance with the increase in accidents it would appear all that has been affected is the rear-end collisions which are disproportionate to the increase in traffic.

However the number of accidents that were not rear-end collisions were 54 at the beginning of the study and 60 at the end of the study, so there is no evidence in an overall decrease in the more deadly accidents. There is, however, a large increase in rear-end collisions from 53 at the beginning of the study to 74 at the end with total accidents up from 107 to 134. Considering the non-rear-end accidents are up 10% in accordance with the increase in accidents it would appear all that has been affected is the rear-end collisions which are disproportionate to the increase in traffic.
Much more well stated then my answer lol

Much more well stated then my answer lol

It links to the actual numbers from the study. One can't really make the argument that public safety has increased. It's quite clear that the opposite has occurred. I wonder what the cost to the county has been for these increased accidents. I'd wager even financially they didn't come out ahead by much.

I find that the increase in traffic is more responsible for this then the stupid cameras. Its not like a camera affects your driving ability in a negative way.

I agree. I have to brake on a fairly regular basis for people who overtake me, pull away, realise there's a speed camera ahead and abruptly drop their speed to well below the limit.

Dumbasses.

Why can't they just stay 30m behind me? We are supposed to get to where we are going alive, not on time.

People should just learn to drive. If you can't drive at a safe distance from another vehicle your license should be taken. If you see the light changing to yellow when you still have enough room to stop before the intersection but decide to floor it instead, your license should be taken.
I've been tailgated by 18 wheelers. Needless to say I didn't slam on my brakes to send them a message. Those fuckers drive for a living and they know that their trucks don't stop on a dime. Police officers should be allowed to pull them over and execute them on the side of the road when they present that much of a danger.

I find that the increase in traffic is more responsible for this then the stupid cameras. Its not like a camera affects your driving ability in a negative way.
There was only a 10% increase in traffic.

I find that the increase in traffic is more responsible for this then the stupid cameras. Its not like a camera affects your driving ability in a negative way.
As stated there was only a 10% increase in traffic

It may not effect your driving ability but it does re-arrange some peoples driving priority, adding another factor in there changes the ultimate outcome to their decisions in some way. The idea is to effect it in a positive way (which is what they were going for ... making more people conscious of their actions) but they misjudged the consequences of adding another factor.

I find that the increase in traffic is more responsible for this then the stupid cameras. Its not like a camera affects your driving ability in a negative way.

Yes, and don't let the facts get in the way of your assertion. Carry on.

I find that the increase in traffic is more responsible for this then the stupid cameras. Its not like a camera affects your driving ability in a negative way.

The problem isnt the cameras. Its peoples thought that they can speed whenever a camera isnt present. When a camera is put on a section of road where people useally race down, and then people see the camera sign they rapidly slow down. However then the next person is still speeding, doesnt have time to slow down and hits their rear bumper. The problem in that situation isnt the camera, its the fact that the people are speeding in the first place and have to slow down to get to 30mph

The problem isnt the cameras. Its peoples thought that they can speed whenever a camera isnt present. When a camera is put on a section of road where people useally race down, and then people see the camera sign they rapidly slow down. However then the next person is still speeding, doesnt have time to slow down and hits their rear bumper. The problem in that situation isnt the camera, its the fact that the people are speeding in the first place and have to slow down to get to 30mph

Yay, we get to agree right as I take my leave of the forums.

I think the speeding is the problem, but we have to analyze whether the cameras are a threat to public safety. They appear to be.

The REAL problem is that we will quickly and easily certify people to operate multi-ton conglomerations of steel and glass on public streets with thousand of other people around at all times of day and under all weather conditions.

When I worked at a gas station one year to help put me through college, I was stunned at how many drivers couldn't figure out how to operate an automatic car wash. Or even a fuel pump! And yet they drive. :eek:

Hah, you think you have it bad...

We have cameras on the freeways, both spot check and trip distance/timer cameras (so you cant speed at all on them) as well as random spot check and trip cameras available on all other roads in the state. All of these are unmarked... Oh and it costs the drivers a shitload...


The Government is forecasting a 15 per cent jump in fines and regulatory fees, to $727 million, in 2005-06. http://www.policespeedcameras.info/news_vic1.html#3

The REAL problem is that we will quickly and easily certify people to operate multi-ton conglomerations of steel and glass on public streets with thousand of other people around at all times of day and under all weather conditions.

When I worked at a gas station one year to help put me through college, I was stunned at how many drivers couldn't figure out how to operate an automatic car wash. Or even a fuel pump! And yet they drive. :eek:

I was renewing my license once and watching the guy ahead of me trying to pass the eye test. Here is a transcript of the interaction.

Old man: L - D - R - J - S - T - Q
DL Man (patiently): No, not Q.
OM: R - P....
DL Man: No, the rest were correct. What's the last letter?
OM: Q?
DLM: No, not Q.
OM: C?
DLM: No, not C.
OM: Q?
DLM (exasperated but patient): No, not Q.
OM: L - D - P - J - S - T - Q
DLM: The R was right when you read the letters the first time, but it's not Q. Can you see what it is?
OM: Q?

I am not exaggerating. He must have guessed Q ten times. I wanted just grab him by the collar and yell in his face, "IT'S O!!! O!!! IT LOOKS LIKE A Q AND A C AND IT'S REALLY THE ONLY CHOICE LEFT!!!! HE TOLD YOU IT'S NOT Q SO STOP SAYING IT BEFORE I GO ON A KILLING SPREE!!!" But he finally guessed O, so I just went up and did my test and then went to tutor some children.

I was renewing my license once and watching the guy ahead of me trying to pass the eye test. Here is a transcript of the interaction.

Old man: L - D - R - J - S - T - Q
DL Man (patiently): No, not Q.
OM: R - P....
DL Man: No, the rest were correct. What's the last letter?
OM: Q?
DLM: No, not Q.
OM: C?
DLM: No, not C.
OM: Q?
DLM (exasperated but patient): No, not Q.
OM: L - D - P - J - S - T - Q
DLM: The R was right when you read the letters the first time, but it's not Q. Can you see what it is?
OM: Q?

I am not exaggerating. He must have guessed Q ten times. I wanted just grab him by the collar and yell in his face, "IT'S O!!! O!!! IT LOOKS LIKE A Q AND A C AND IT'S REALLY THE ONLY CHOICE LEFT!!!! HE TOLD YOU IT'S NOT Q SO STOP SAYING IT BEFORE I GO ON A KILLING SPREE!!!" But he finally guessed O, so I just went up and did my test and then went to tutor some children.

That man is behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Probably A nice heavy SUV. :)

Yay, we get to agree right as I take my leave of the forums.

I think the speeding is the problem, but we have to analyze whether the cameras are a threat to public safety. They appear to be.

I think camera's are not the apropriate solution in all places but they themselves are not a problem. One solution is those speed checker things, which work like speed camera's but instead of taking your picture and fining you, they simmply show you your current speed to make you more aware.

I think camera's are not the apropriate solution in all places but they themselves are not a problem. One solution is those speed checker things, which work like speed camera's but instead of taking your picture and fining you, they simmply show you your current speed to make you more aware.

Yeah, I like those. And again, while the cameras are not responsible, their presence has been shown to decrease public safety. No camera, less accidents. Camera, more accidents. It's clear that the cameras should go in the interest of public safety, which is the reason for traffic laws anyway.

When I worked at a gas station one year to help put me through college, I was stunned at how many drivers couldn't figure out how to operate an automatic car wash. Or even a fuel pump! And yet they drive. :eek:
And what do these two things have in common with being a good driver? I could be the best driver ever and still not know how to check the oil or use a fuel pump.

And what do these two things have in common with being a good driver? I could be the best driver ever and still not know how to check the oil or use a fuel pump.

No you can't. :p

And could you also go into that a little deeper?
Good behavior on the road has NOTHING to do with the knowledge of operating anything, for example a car wash or whatever.

And could you also go into that a little deeper?
Good behavior on the road has NOTHING to do with the knowledge of operating anything, for example a car wash or whatever.

Good behavior has nothing to do with driving skill. The question is would you trust someone to set up your company's database that struggled with turning your computer on?

Old man: L - D - R - J - S - T - Q
DL Man (patiently): No, not Q.
OM: R - P....
DL Man: No, the rest were correct. What's the last letter?
OM: Q?
DLM: No, not Q.
OM: C?
DLM: No, not C.
OM: Q?
DLM (exasperated but patient): No, not Q.
OM: L - D - P - J - S - T - Q
DLM: The R was right when you read the letters the first time, but it's not Q. Can you see what it is?
OM: Q?

And in the words of Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert: "and then he voted"

Good behavior has nothing to do with driving skill. The question is would you trust someone to set up your company's database that struggled with turning your computer on?
You don't have to know how to use a car wash in order to drive well.
You DO have to know how to turn the computer on in order to be good technician.

Now can anyone give an actual answer?

You don't have to know how to use a car wash in order to drive well.
You DO have to know how to turn the computer on in order to be good technician.

Now can anyone give an actual answer?

Turning on a computer is not a part of working on a database. The point is that understanding your vehicle is a part of being a good driver. In the case of a carwash, my friends who have worked there talk about the difficulty people have in maneuvering their cars properly in order to use them. And if you can't maneuvering your car well enough to get through a car wash, well, yeah, you shouldn't be driving.

And if a person doesn't have the necessary G2 to operate a gas pump, yes, I question their ability to understand the road signs and make the rapid decisions driving requires. I guarantee you no one has ever been a spectacular driver or "the best driver in the world" and couldn't figure out a fuel pump. If you can't operate a fuel pump you should probably be in assisted living.


When my father stops being able to operate the VCR, I intend to make sure he quits driving. A certain level of brain function is required in order to be a safe driver.

These people just suck at driving. They put red light cameras all around the St. Louis metro east. You could cruise through yellow lights, even having them turn red as you pass through, and I never once got a ticket. They are not as sensitive as people make them seem. They are there to catch the idiots who go crusing through 5 seconds after the light turned red.

The problem isnt the cameras. Its peoples thought that they can speed whenever a camera isnt present. When a camera is put on a section of road where people useally race down, and then people see the camera sign they rapidly slow down. However then the next person is still speeding, doesnt have time to slow down and hits their rear bumper. The problem in that situation isnt the camera, its the fact that the people are speeding in the first place and have to slow down to get to 30mph
I agree

The problem is as is the cameras are apparently a hazard ... whatever the other effects how the cameras deployed now are making the streats in that area less safe. If so why are they there?

Turning on a computer is not a part of working on a database. The point is that understanding your vehicle is a part of being a good driver. In the case of a carwash, my friends who have worked there talk about the difficulty people have in maneuvering their cars properly in order to use them. And if you can't maneuvering your car well enough to get through a car wash, well, yeah, you shouldn't be driving.
I am not talking about knowing how to operate the car, that of course is a necessity. I never disputed that.
But knowing how to use a car wash is not related to operating the car itself, whereas knowing how to fix the database and using a computer is directly related. It may just be that no one told them how to use a car wash, but it's still POSSIBLE (not likely, but _possible_) that they are a good driver.

I guarantee you no one has ever been a spectacular driver or "the best driver in the world" and couldn't figure out a fuel pump. If you can't operate a fuel pump you should probably be in assisted living.
Again, I am not saying that it's likely, just that it's possible, meaning both issues are not DIRECTLY related to each other. That's all I'm saying here.

The cameras make people more paranoid and make them speed up when they get to a amber light for fear of running a red, but this causes more traffic accidents. Just increase the length of the amber light to allow people to slow down, and get rid of the Big Brother-esque cameras. After all, if we can put them on traffic lights, why not in other places, too?

I am not talking about knowing how to operate the car, that of course is a necessity. I never disputed that.
But knowing how to use a car wash is not related to operating the car itself, whereas knowing how to fix the database and using a computer is directly related. It may just be that no one told them how to use a car wash, but it's still POSSIBLE (not likely, but _possible_) that they are a good driver.


Again, I am not saying that it's likely, just that it's possible, meaning both issues are not DIRECTLY related to each other. That's all I'm saying here.
Naw database work can be done on paper as well

It does not mean I want that person managing my database but it CAN be designed and written in paper.

Someone else would just have to code it (big databases Do have people desinging them like that)

The cameras make people more paranoid and make them speed up when they get to a amber light for fear of running a red, but this causes more traffic accidents. Just increase the length of the amber light to allow people to slow down, and get rid of the Big Brother-esque cameras. After all, if we can put them on traffic lights, why not in other places, too?

Its a scientific fact that the yellow light encourages people to speed. Maybe just having green and red would be a solution. :p

Its a scientific fact that the yellow light encourages people to speed. Maybe just having green and red would be a solution. :p

The reason they installed the amber light was because people were cruising into the street just as the other side was allowed to go, causing car accidents. The problem with the amber light is that it is so quick, and because of the brevity it seems to have more of an effect of "GO GO GO!" than "You should speed down." If the length was increased, people would know that they have enough time to get through, or that they don't have a reason to go much faster.

Naw database work can be done on paper as well

It does not mean I want that person managing my database but it CAN be designed and written in paper.

Someone else would just have to code it (big databases Do have people desinging them like that)
So we went from traffic accidents to designing databases in just three pages? That's awesome / horrible / whatever ;) .

Naw database work can be done on paper as well

It does not mean I want that person managing my database but it CAN be designed and written in paper.

Someone else would just have to code it (big databases Do have people desinging them like that)

Not to mention that being able to turn on or maintain a computer has NOTHING to do with database work. However, if you were doing a demo of a your database skills for me and you couldn't get your computer to work. you're out of here. I think to be good at anything you have to intimately understand your tools.