NationStates Jolt Archive

But then, being Chicago her ability to defend herself from predators is limited... :rolleyes:

She fights off coyote to rescue her pooch

By Josh Noel
Tribune staff reporter
Published April 4, 2006


Cissy Lacks was heading toward an afternoon of shopping in a Lincolnwood mall parking lot when she saw what she thought was a skinny, ragged dog slinking between the cars.

Suddenly the animal--a wild-eyed, snarling coyote--lunged for her 4-year-old miniature poodle, Annie.

Without thinking, so did Lacks.

The 60-year-old retired high school English teacher found herself in a tug of war with the coyote over her dog. She had hold of Annie's front end while the coyote clamped its jaws around the dog's hind quarters.

The contest lasted 15 brutally long seconds, but the coyote gave up after Lacks chucked a bag of clothes at it.

"The first day [after the incident], Annie was very, very sad, but now she's in great sprits," said Lacks, of St. Louis, who was in town visiting family. "But I still get a little edgy thinking about what could have happened."

The parking lot showdown was among the most brazen in a series of recent coyote attacks in the Chicago suburbs, and, experts say, a rare case of a coyote taking on a person, albeit over a dog. Coyotes have recently killed a terrier on a Northfield front lawn, a beagle in a Glencoe back yard and a 3 1/2-pound Yorkshire terrier snatched in front of its owner outside an Arlington Heights home.

Thanks to Lacks, Annie fared much better, left only with a small gash on her left hind leg, several teeth marks and a large plastic cone around her neck to keep her from irritating the wound.

When the attack began outside Lincolnwood Town Center about 2:45 p.m. on March 27, Lacks said she was only able to lift the front of her 20-pound dog because the coyote already had a grip on the back half. Lacks did exactly what coyote experts advise: yell, kick with her boot and throw the bag in her hand.

The coyote retreated, but with an insouciance that still haunts Lacks.

"It sauntered away as if nothing happened," she said. "It just seemed to lose interest. I can't say I was heroic and fought it off. It's even scarier because of that."

Lincolnwood Deputy Police Chief Pete Swanson said Lacks reported the attack to officers at the mall, though the police did not witness the attack. He said officers assume Lacks did indeed come nose-to-nose with a coyote because the department has responded in the last two weeks to two other sightings of such an animal in the northern suburb.

Officers have tried unsuccessfully to catch it.

Armando Gracia, a Lincolnwood police community service officer, said a coyote has been spotted at a construction site near Devon and Lincoln Avenues--just blocks from the mall, which is at Touhy Avenue and McCormick Boulevard.

They tried to lasso it at the construction site but couldn't get close enough.

"As soon as he sees movement he runs away," Gracia said. "Those things are really fast."

Coyotes have been a growing presence in the Chicago area for 20 years, said Bob Bluett, a wildlife biologist with the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. But coyotes usually keep their distance from people, even when the person is walking a dog. An aggressive move like the parking lot battle is rare.

"Usually the incidents aren't that bold," he said. "We're usually talking about the animal getting within 10 feet of a person, not actually getting into a tug of war."

He said the animals seem less wary than ever of humans.

Ten years ago a coyote looked over its shoulder when it entered humans' territory and found a free meal in a bowl of dog food, Bluett said. Now coyotes are "not looking over their shoulder," he said. "It keeps going through the generations until they're just saying, `Well, there's another person.'"

Rob Erickson, a self-employed coyote trapper who recently nabbed seven coyotes for the Village of Arlington Heights, said coyotes are going after pets more often.

"It doesn't seem to be getting rare at all anymore," he said. "It's increasing. It's alarming. They've adapted to suburbia so well."

This is the time of year when coyotes are most likely to come into contact with humans and their pets, he said. Coyote mating season is--coincidentally--around Valentine's Day, which puts most births around mid-April. Until the pups arrive, he said, male coyotes are extremely territorial and itching for a fight.

Another possibility, he said, is that the Lincolnwood coyote is ill. Sick coyotes typically don't have the strength to hunt wild prey and need to go after slower, easier targets.

"Those are the types of animals we recommend be removed," Bluett said. "We don't see all coyotes as evil. There are all sorts in the Chicago area that don't cause problems, but when we see one like that, removal is probably in everyone's best interest."

Since the only physical threats the coyotes face in Chicagoland are Cops who can't catch them & won't shoot them, and really big dogs, why should they be afraid? Wait until one gets a kid. Hopefully there will be a gangbanger close enough to properly shoot the critter since no one else is allowed to be armed. :headbang:

But then, being Chicago her ability to defend herself from predators is limited... :rolleyes:



Since the only physical threats the coyotes face in Chicagoland are Cops who can't catch them & won't shoot them, and really big dogs, why should they be afraid? Wait until one gets a kid. Hopefully there will be a gangbanger close enough to properly shoot the critter since no one else is allowed to be armed. :headbang:
God bless those heroic bloods and crips. *wipes away a tear*

Wait until one gets a kid.

not gonna happen

not gonna happen
Why not?

Next up: Bobcats.

Why not?

cause coyotes are small dogs

Next up: Bobcats.

Bobcats would sometimes come into my little hometown. We'd just take another route to where we were going, as they're most certainly not to be fucked with.

not gonna happen
You are basing this on your vast experience as a Suburban Wildlife Biologist, or the fact that no child has ever been mauled by a tame dog, much less a feral coyote? :rolleyes:

So because of the immediate danger posed by Coyotes we should give guns to everyone who wants them.

Or maybe we should just try and clean the place up and leave less crap lying around for Coyotes and their prey species to live off...

cause coyotes are small dogs
Ah. I see. No child has ever been attacked by a Scottie or Beagle I suppose?

cause coyotes are small dogs
They're big enough to bite the shit out of a toddler. Coyotes can kill whitetail deer. Most kids aren't as tough as a deer.

As winter becomes harder and small mammal populations decline, coyotes turn toward their largest prey - whitetail deer. Deer killed by vehicles and other causes (carrion) can be an important food source for coyotes. Lacking any carrion, coyotes can, will, and do kill healthy adult deer
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/coyinny.htm

So because of the immediate danger posed by Coyotes we should give guns to everyone who wants them.Well, if you are in the mood to "give" guns, I suppose I could stand to have a few more. But most people have to shell out good money to purchase one. :rolleyes:
Or maybe we should just try and clean the place up and leave less crap lying around for Coyotes and their prey species to live off...Like Toy Poodles?

Ah. I see. No child has ever been attacked by a Scottie or Beagle I suppose?

And very few die of it. There are few adults in this world incapable of fending off a scottie.

No child has ever been attacked by a Scottie or Beagle I suppose?

Got any links to a kid being mauled by a Beagle?!

Because there's a world of difference between a Pit Bull and a Beagle.

And very few die of it. There are few adults in this world incapable of fending off a scottie.
How many scotties are tough enough to live in the wilderness without human help, hunt in packs, and occasionally take down prey as large as deer?

Like Toy Poodles?

Obtuseness at it's finest Mr Syniks I congratulate you.

cause coyotes are small dogs
There have been many cases involving dog bite attacks with smaller dogs such as the case involving a family Pomeranian dog and a 6-week old baby.

http://www.dogbitelawcenter.com/pages/DogsMostLikely.cfm

And anyone who would call a Coyote a Dog is a moron. A Coyote is no more a Dog than a Wolf is.

http://www.canids.org/SPPACCTS/coyote.htm

We have coyotes in this area too...it's because of the destruction of their natural habitats.

Bobcats would sometimes come into my little hometown. We'd just take another route to where we were going, as they're most certainly not to be fucked with.
They've been slowly expanding their range ever since we wiped out wolves.
Which is why they suck. One came into our deer hunting grounds, and we were oh so pissed for quite some time.

You are basing this on your vast experience as a Suburban Wildlife Biologist, or the fact that no child has ever been mauled by a tame dog, much less a feral coyote? :rolleyes:

the family dog is a far far far more likely attacker than a coyote. coyote attacks on humans are so rare as to be essentially non-existant. shit, more kids get shot by police than attacked by coyotes.


i wouldn't call it vast, but i've had my share of wildlife courses.

Got any links to a kid being mauled by a Beagle?! Is the pomeranian good enough?

Here is one about a 40lb mixed beagle: http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Feb/25/ln/ln04a.html

Or a Welsh Corgi? http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/March06/Corgi0306.pdf

Because there's a world of difference between a Pit Bull and a Beagle.Yep. But then, either can kill.

the family dog is a far far far more likely attacker than a coyote. coyote attacks on humans are so rare as to be essentially non-existant. shit, more kids get shot by police than attacked by coyotes.


i wouldn't call it vast, but i've had my share of wildlife courses.

But before you said it's "not gonna happen". Now you're saying they do occur. Do you honestly think that wild animals in an urban environment that are becoming accostomed to humans wouldn't attack one?

There have been many cases involving dog bite attacks with smaller dogs such as the case involving a family Pomeranian dog and a 6-week old baby.

http://www.dogbitelawcenter.com/pages/DogsMostLikely.cfm

and that's because infants are left with dogs unattended. this is not typically the case with coyotes.

And anyone who would call a Coyote a Dog is a moron. A Coyote is no more a Dog than a Wolf is.

http://www.canids.org/SPPACCTS/coyote.htm

of course - i was refering to size.

though coyotes can interbreed with wolves and domestic dogs, and wolves can do likewise. so the line is a bit blurry for the entire canis genus, if we go by the biological species concept.

Yep. But then, either can kill.

A) thank you for the links.

B) Yes either can kill; so can a bumblebee. Are you saying we should arm the populace against bees now? :rolleyes:

How many scotties are tough enough to live in the wilderness without human help, hunt in packs, and occasionally take down prey as large as deer?
Depends.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

http://texnat.tamu.edu/ranchref/predator/dogs/t-dogs.htm

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

But before you said it's "not gonna happen". Now you're saying they do occur. Do you honestly think that wild animals in an urban environment that are becoming accostomed to humans wouldn't attack one?

a robin might attack some kid somewhere. so what?

B) Yes either can kill; so can a bumblebee. Are you saying we should arm the populace against bees now? :rolleyes:

Here I must follow Anarchic Christians' lead.

Obtuseness at it's finest, Rikki Tiki, I congratulate you. :rolleyes:

a robin might attack some kid somewhere. so what?

So robins are predatory now? They can kill dogs, cats, and small children?

You brought up the point of interbreeding.

The mix is commonly called a "Coydog". They're even more dangerous than Coyotes and are becoming more common.

and that's because infants are left with dogs unattended. this is not typically the case with coyotes. Uh huh. How many unattended children are out on the street/in parks/wherever on any given day?

So robins are predatory now?
Are Pomeranians?


Here I must follow Anarchic Christians' lead.

Obtuseness at it's finest, Rikki Tiki, I congratulate you.

Only responding in kind. ;)

Are Pomeranians?By definition, if not in general practice.

And Robins, being Thrushes, are predatory... but I wouldn't worry too much unless you are an invertabrate.

Are Pomeranians?



Technically, yes. They're just not very good at it. :)

Depends.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

http://texnat.tamu.edu/ranchref/predator/dogs/t-dogs.htm

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
While I'd love to see a pack of feral scottys take down a big whitetail buck I'm not holding my breath until it happens. Point taken on feral dogs though.

Uh huh. How many unattended children are out on the street/in parks/wherever on any given day?

lots. all of them larger than coyotes.

don't let your infant or toddler hang out in the woods alone after you've been feeding a coyote for months and everything will be fine. and even if you do, it is terrifically unlikely that a coyote would attack.

lots. all of them larger than coyotes.

don't let your infant or toddler hang out in the woods alone after you've been feeding a coyote for months and everything will be fine. and even if you do, it is terrifically unlikely that a coyote would attack.
Does the size difference really matter? Coyotes can kill healthy adult whitetail deer. Deer are bigger and much stronger than a toddler. In a fight I'd put my money on a 30 pound coyote over a 60 pound kid.

lots. all of them larger than coyotes.

don't let your infant or toddler hang out in the woods alone after you've been feeding a coyote for months and everything will be fine. and even if you do, it is terrifically unlikely that a coyote would attack.

Wrong again. I've had coyotes turn on me several times. I've also seen a pack go after a fully grown male St Bernard.

Does the size difference really matter? Coyotes can kill healthy adult whitetail deer. Deer are bigger and much stronger than a toddler. In a fight I'd put my money on a 30 pound coyote over a 60 pound kid.

actually, the vast majority of deer that they kill are fawns. they do take down the occassional adult deer, but only by hunting as a pack (and usually only the old or sick - like every other predator around). i don't think anyone has ever reported a coyote pack attack on a human, because they don't actively seek out encounters with us.

Wrong again. I've had coyotes turn on me several times.

what were you doing to them? all the coyotes i've encountered (in the chicago suburbs and various places in michigan and wisconsin) have been more than willing to run away as soon as they knew i was there.

what were you doing to them? all the coyotes i've encountered (in the chicago suburbs and various places in michigan and wisconsin) have been more than willing to run away as soon as they knew i was there.That's because you were throwing firebombs and screaming about the bourgeoise. :rolleyes:

They know better than to be seen with you.

actually, the vast majority of deer that they kill are fawns. they do take down the occassional adult deer, but only by hunting as a pack (and usually only the old or sick - like every other predator around). i don't think anyone has ever reported a coyote pack attack on a human, because they don't actively seek out encounters with us.
And yet, just what was this article/OP all about? :rolleyes:

actually, the vast majority of deer that they kill are fawns. they do take down the occassional adult deer, but only by hunting as a pack (and usually only the old or sick - like every other predator around). i don't think anyone has ever reported a coyote pack attack on a human, because they don't actively seek out encounters with us.

Usually, coyotes DO avoid people, but it sounds like some of them are starting to get bolder. I wouldn't ignore the danger they present.

And yet, just what was this article/OP all about? :rolleyes:

a coyote going after a tiny little snack sized dog, and giving up once it realized that there actually was a human around?

a coyote going after a tiny little snack sized dog, and giving up once it realized that there actually was a human around?

Or a coyote who wasn't afraid to come near a human to nab a tasty treat. Next time, that treat might be a baby.

Or a coyote who wasn't afraid to come near a human to nab a tasty treat. Next time, that treat might be a baby.

maybe. and maybe next time the squirrels will launch a mass assault some old people in the park. it's just not something to get worked up about.

actually, the vast majority of deer that they kill are fawns. they do take down the occassional adult deer, but only by hunting as a pack (and usually only the old or sick - like every other predator around). i don't think anyone has ever reported a coyote pack attack on a human, because they don't actively seek out encounters with us.
Once again, a 60 pound toddler vs. a 30 pound coyote is no contest. Coyote wins every time. If they do lose fear of humans, pack attacks will occur.

what were you doing to them? all the coyotes i've encountered (in the chicago suburbs and various places in michigan and wisconsin) have been more than willing to run away as soon as they knew i was there.

Going towards it w/ my shotgun. They were either after the chickens or rabbits.

It didn't last too long after that.

maybe. and maybe next time the squirrels will launch a mass assault some old people in the park. it's just not something to get worked up about.For all their inability to deal with it, the Police and Residents seem pretty concerned.

This is at least the 4th such incident in recent months, and the second where a human was in immediate proximity. So much for being rare and unlikely to happen around people.

geee i dont know what y'all are at each other for

coyotes dont belong in the city.

they arent endangered so the best thing to do is to hire a specialist who can capture and/or kill this animal.

its not a good idea to authorize the police to shoot it, it certainly isnt a good idea to allow private citizens to start shooting at it in populated areas. bullets tend to go astray.

geee i dont know what y'all are at each other for

coyotes dont belong in the city.

they arent endangered so the best thing to do is to hire a specialist who can capture and/or kill this animal.

its not a good idea to authorize the police to shoot it, it certainly isnt a good idea to allow private citizens to start shooting at it in populated areas. bullets tend to go astray.
Since when? I've been shooting for over20 years and never had a bullet "go astray". They have all hit within at most 4" of point of aim - regardless of distance. The only bullets that "go astray" are those fired randomly by Gangbangers, Incompetents or Cops (who have a lower accuracy/hit rate than CCW civilians).

Since when? I've been shooting for over20 years and never had a bullet "go astray". They have all hit within at most 4" of point of aim - regardless of distance. The only bullets that "go astray" are those fired randomly by Gangbangers, Incompetents or Cops (who have a lower accuracy/hit rate than CCW civilians).
What about drunk hunters?

What about drunk hunters?
Drunk "hunters" aren't hunters and should be treated every bit as, or more, harshly than Drunk Drivers.

Besides, you know I'm not talking about "hunting" coyotes in town - just lamenting not being allowed to defend yourself or kid from them (or any attacking canid for that matter).

What about drunk hunters?

I would file that under "Incompentant".

Drunk "hunters" aren't hunters and should be treated every bit as, or more, harshly than Drunk Drivers.

Besides, you know I'm not talking about "hunting" coyotes in town - just lamenting not being allowed to defend yourself or kid from them (or any attacking canid for that matter).
I know. I just act morbidly obtuse at times.

I know. I just act morbidly obtuse at times.
Well, as long as you are not morbidly obese.... :p

Well, as long as you are not morbidly obese.... :p
I'm trying not to be, but since I quit going to martial arts classes and hitting the weight room I've packed on a few pounds. Working my current schedule and commuting sucks. Some nights I don't get home until 9 pm.

How many scotties are tough enough to live in the wilderness without human help, hunt in packs, and occasionally take down prey as large as deer?

You are failing to realize that coyotes, almost by nature, are afraid of people, and will generally scare quickly. They avoid coming into contact with people like the devil, and will only attack people if they are seriously threatened. They would rather run than fight with any person. They are able to kill people, it's just rare.

That being said, coyotes still can pose a threat to people. They generally don't attack people, however if the population gets extremely high, then they could become more aggressive with the overcrowding.

I'm trying not to be, but since I quit going to martial arts classes and hitting the weight room I've packed on a few pounds. Working my current schedule and commuting sucks. Some nights I don't get home until 9 pm.
Easy solution. Run home. You will run faster if you have Jersey Gang Bangers chasing you. :eek: :D

For all their inability to deal with it, the Police and Residents seem pretty concerned.

This is at least the 4th such incident in recent months, and the second where a human was in immediate proximity. So much for being rare and unlikely to happen around people.

4th incident in recent "months". This is happening in Chicago, a densely populated city, with several hundred thousand people, and countless dogs, and this is only the fouth incident. I'm quite frankly surprised it hasn't happened more often. And only twice have people been in the immediate proximity. Twice. Hardly something that I would call a serious danger. At my old house, I saw coyotes all the time, and that was in a lightly populated rural area.

Easy solution. Run home. You will run faster if you have Jersey Gang Bangers chasing you. :eek: :D
I was never much for running. Fighting was much less exhausting. :D

4th incident in recent "months". This is happening in Chicago, a densely populated city, with several hundred thousand people, and countless dogs, and this is only the fouth incident. I'm quite frankly surprised it hasn't happened more often. And only twice have people been in the immediate proximity. Twice. Hardly something that I would call a serious danger. At my old house, I saw coyotes all the time, and that was in a lightly populated rural area.
And yet, you had how many attacks on pets with close-proximity humans? I used to hunt 'yotes growing up in Wyoming. They were everywhere, but they didn't attack pets on the leash.

So yes, it's a big deal when they have lost enough fear of humans that there have been this many.

This is at least the 4th such incident in recent months, and the second where a human was in immediate proximity. So much for being rare and unlikely to happen around people.

total population of chicagoland area: nearing 10 million at this point
total number of coyote attacks on humans in chicago area ever: none

might as well throw in the fact that the coyote population is fairly well studied and even managed (350+ killed by the state/county/whatever in the city every year). the only things at any real risk are little tiny dogs and the occassional escaped cat.

And yet, you had how many attacks on pets with close-proximity humans? I used to hunt 'yotes growing up in Wyoming. They were everywhere, but they didn't attack pets on the leash.

So yes, it's a big deal when they have lost enough fear of humans that there have been this many.

Well, taking into consideration the densely populated environment of the area where these have been taking place(coyotes are afraid of people, but know the rewards of living near them), and the rather low population density of rural areas(such as in wyoming), it does not surprising that coyote confrontations will happen more frequently. Also, with the ample food that is provided with such a large population of people around(garbage-a feast for many animals), and as the population of coyotes grows, they will become more and more aggressive with shrinking territory. Also, it is likely that these cases are isolated, with the majority probably avoiding people(And only a handful willing to approach people).

I'm not saying that they pose no threat, just that the threat is not nearly as large as people are making, and that quite frankly the coyotes still pose almost no threat to people.

Since when? I've been shooting for over20 years and never had a bullet "go astray". They have all hit within at most 4" of point of aim - regardless of distance. The only bullets that "go astray" are those fired randomly by Gangbangers, Incompetents or Cops (who have a lower accuracy/hit rate than CCW civilians).
OW! my eyes rolled so hard that it hurt!

since when are we talking about YOU? i believe you mentioned gangbangers and cops as those who would be shooting coyotes. the very people you claim in this post as the most innacurate.

if you want to apply for the contract to be the specialist who would go kill or capture coyotes, go right ahead.

total population of chicagoland area: nearing 10 million at this point
total number of coyote attacks on humans in chicago area ever: none

might as well throw in the fact that the coyote population is fairly well studied and even managed (350+ killed by the state/county/whatever in the city every year). the only things at any real risk are little tiny dogs and the occassional escaped cat.

Exactly. Given the population of people in the area, and how many attacks there are, it is amazingly low. These attacks are so infrequent, especially considering the population of people living in close proximity of the coyotes, that the threat is almost non-existant.

OW! my eyes rolled so hard that it hurt!

since when are we talking about YOU? i believe you mentioned gangbangers and cops as those who would be shooting coyotes. the very people you claim in this post as the most innacurate.

if you want to apply for the contract to be the specialist who would go kill or capture coyotes, go right ahead.
And Yet, the point of my OP was that mightn't it be better if the people had the Choice to do better than the aformentioned incompetents?

You are so busy rolling your eyes that you missed the point entirely.

And Yet, the point of my OP was that mightn't it be better if the people had the Choice to do better than the aformentioned incompetents?

You are so busy rolling your eyes that you missed the point entirely.

I wouldn't call the police incompetent. They aren't trained to deal with coyotes. They are trained to deal with more serious problems, with the high crime rates and all. They are trained to deal with people.

And there is such a thing as animal control. They are trained to deal with this problem, and will likely formulate plans as the problem becomes more serious. It is not serious now, or at least nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Apparently there have been more than "just four" attacks. Those listed are just a few of the ones that have happened RECENTLY. I've found reports of attacks going back to at least '02. There are an estimated 2000 coyotes in the Chicagoland area alone.

There have also been attacks on children in urban areas in Arizona and California.

But it'll never happen in Chicago. :rolleyes:

And Yet, the point of my OP was that mightn't it be better if the people had the Choice to do better than the aformentioned incompetents?

You are so busy rolling your eyes that you missed the point entirely.
ow ow ow ow why did i look at this thread again?? MY EYES!

if "the people" were all clones of you, that would be a great idea. i have no doubt that if you were in the mall parking lot with your little dog and a coyote grabbed it, you would have no problem reaching into the glove compartment, pulling out your gun, and shooting the beast right between the eyes. and that YOUR special bullets would never pass through the coyote to hit a spectator.

but i have severe doubts that a little old lady could reach into her purse, pull out her gun and HIT the coyote rather than the toddler in the next car. she is not YOU.

the people ARE the cops; they ARE the gangbangers; they ARE poorly trained housewives taking the kids to the mall. its a very good idea to do whatever it takes to remove coyotes from populated areas. its a very bad idea to authorize any fool with a gun to shoot at one.

There have also been attacks on children in urban areas in Arizona and California.

how many, over what time period, and across how big a population?

the people ARE the cops; they ARE the gangbangers; they ARE poorly trained housewives taking the kids to the mall. its a very good idea to do whatever it takes to remove coyotes from populated areas. its a very bad idea to authorize any fool with a gun to shoot at one.

Somehow I imagine it's a bit more than "any fool with a gun".