NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=59f1c4ea-dd6f-4243-978b-5311d326321b

I can say that I am surprised by this ruling. I was sure that the US would've been found guilty but apparently the WTO disagreed with my opinion on the issue.

Great. Who needs a free market when you can wave a flag and get everyone to support you, hey?

Yeah, I kinda thought it was a clear cut case. And that they'd have to rule in favour of Canada.

Wait, WTO? I thought this was a Nafta thing... meh...

down with Canada!

Great. The US wins the WTO case. So? The continuous NAFTA cases that Canada has been winning on the issue are legally binding (if the US decides to play by the rules), whereas WTO is not.

Great. The US wins the WTO case. So? The continuous NAFTA cases that Canada has been winning on the issue are legally binding (if the US decides to play by the rules), whereas WTO is not.

This is true. I just found it surprising that the WTO is doing the opposite of what the NAFTA court is doing.

Personally, I think anti-dumping laws are bullshit but I guess this is preferable to a trade war.

Still, I think the US should lift its duties in exchange for the elimination of any subsidies to lumber producers in both US and Canada. We need to eliminate as many restrictions as possible, not maintain them in order to maximize the gains from all involved.

once again, Canada's getting screwed over by the US, and our government still hasn't developed a backbone. wonderful. :rolleyes:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=59f1c4ea-dd6f-4243-978b-5311d326321b

I can say that I am surprised by this ruling. I was sure that the US would've been found guilty but apparently the WTO disagreed with my opinion on the issue.
Anybody with two ounces of brain will tell you that the WTO is the US's protectionist lap dog.

once again, Canada's getting screwed over by the US, and our government still hasn't developed a backbone. wonderful. :rolleyes:

Give it time. Some sort of compromise will come out of this.

And as much as it sucks, a trade war is the last thing either side really wants. Really, Canada, The US and Mexico should all get together and do a big happy trading dance.

Give it time. Some sort of compromise will come out of this.

And as much as it sucks, a trade war is the last thing either side really wants. Really, Canada, The US and Mexico should all get together and do a big happy trading dance.

except they are still doing small talk at the summit right now. They've been doing small talk for more than a year now! Bush is purposefully avoiding the subject, and the last government did not have the backbone to stand up to bush and tell him to fuck off. Now Harper comes in with his US friendly platform, so even more ass-kissing would happen. I doubt the US would let us have the softwood lumber deal back even if we let them build Star Wars into Canada, because then they'd think they can walk all over us.

except they are still doing small talk at the summit right now. They've been doing small talk for more than a year now! Bush is purposefully avoiding the subject, and the last government did not have the backbone to stand up to bush and tell him to fuck off. Now Harper comes in with his US friendly platform, so even more ass-kissing would happen. I doubt the US would let us have the softwood lumber deal back even if we let them build Star Wars into Canada, because then they'd think they can walk all over us.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as George Bush saying 'let there be lumber', and then the seas parted and tarriffs were lifted.

And short of pulling Wayne Gretzky back in, what exactly can we do? Tit for tat trade arguments will only make things worse for both parties in the long run.

But you're right, the US is on the wrong side of this issue, it's time to put this thing to bed.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as George Bush saying 'let there be lumber', and then the seas parted and tarriffs were lifted.

And short of pulling Wayne Gretzky back in, what exactly can we do? Tit for tat trade arguments will only make things worse for both parties in the long run.

But you're right, the US is on the wrong side of this issue, it's time to put this thing to bed.
You'd think that after the spectacular failure of the steel tariffs, our Administration would see the error of tariffs. But that is not the case.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as George Bush saying 'let there be lumber', and then the seas parted and tarriffs were lifted.

And short of pulling Wayne Gretzky back in, what exactly can we do? Tit for tat trade arguments will only make things worse for both parties in the long run.

But you're right, the US is on the wrong side of this issue, it's time to put this thing to bed.

yeah, i know. I'm just saying. The situation is so bad for Canada right now, with the US not admitting that they are wrong and stuff. I mean, even NAFTA ruled that they are wrong, but has the US ever listened to the international community? It's such a huge blow to our economy, especially to B.C.'s that it's painful. The BC government isn't helping with the spendings on the upcoming olympics either. The province's going to bankrupt soon at this rate.

yeah, i know. I'm just saying. The situation is so bad for Canada right now, with the US not admitting that they are wrong and stuff. I mean, even NAFTA ruled that they are wrong, but has the US ever listened to the international community? It's such a huge blow to our economy, especially to B.C.'s that it's painful. The BC government isn't helping with the spendings on the upcoming olympics either. The province's going to bankrupt soon at this rate.

Ah, I wouldn't worry. With the Pacific opening up, you'll see lot's of money flowing in from Asia. BC has nothing to worry about.

And the Olympics is debatable. Big government spending for short term tourism dollars.... yeah I can see why you might not dig that.

Ah, I wouldn't worry. With the Pacific opening up, you'll see lot's of money flowing in from Asia. BC has nothing to worry about.

And the Olympics is debatable. Big government spending for short term tourism dollars.... yeah I can see why you might not dig that.

great, after we get screwed over by the states, we get screwed over by Asia. They are going to take so many jobs away from us.

great, after we get screwed over by the states, we get screwed over by Asia. They are going to take so many jobs away from us.
Well...

a) Nobody owns a job, so nobody can take it away.
b) Shouldn't you be glad? The jobs that will be moved overseas are grubby, physical manufacturing type jobs for the most part.
c) And those would be replaced by better jobs, more service-orientated and focussing on more R&D.
d) The Yanks said the same thing when NAFTA was started. And rather than a job loss, in a matter of a year or two they had a net gain of 3000 jobs. That number is much, much greater in the EU.

The evidence always suggests that free trade has increased the total amount of work available, because it ultimately increased economic performance.

And besides, if this was 1900...would you feel sorry for the poor workers in the horse-and-carriage industry who get thrown out on the street just because some rich bastard starts to build an empire through manufacturing cars?

d) The Yanks said the same thing when NAFTA was started. And rather than a job loss, in a matter of a year or two they had a net gain of 3000 jobs. That number is much, much greater in the EU

Well said, Neu Leonstein. In fact, the period following NAFTA saw a gain of over 20 million jobs and the lowest unemployment rate/highest participation rate and fastest rate of productivity growth since the 1960's.

Interestingly enough, the 1960's growth also followed trade liberalization with the passage of GATT and the formation of the Common Market. I serioudly doubt that this is coincidental.

Ah joy... :rolleyes:

This is only the start. I fully expect the US to get smacked down for the steel protectionism, and for the Euros to get smacked down for Airbus.

once again, Canada's getting screwed over by the US, and our government still hasn't developed a backbone. wonderful. :rolleyes:The government has only been in power a short time for crying out loud! It's going to be a while for the Americans to listen to us again, after many years of trashing and baiting them,Thank You very much Liberals.:upyours: We are going to be smart about what battles we choose to fight, because,sad to say we're not going to win any trade fights unless the Americans feel generous to us,'they are that powerful''. We just need to remind them every once in a while who is their biggest trading partner and we would like some consideration once in a while. LOOK WE HAVE OIL AND WATER . :p

I think that Canada should rip up NAFTA yesterday. If the US don’t feel like Free Trade, unless they are the clear cut winners, and constantly break the treaty, then it’s not worth the ink on the page.

The Bruce

I think if Canada added a huge tax to energy exports to the US then just maybe they might get the message to stop their illegal trade practices.

I think that Canada should rip up NAFTA yesterday. If the US don’t feel like Free Trade, unless they are the clear cut winners, and constantly break the treaty, then it’s not worth the ink on the page.

The Bruce

Good point! I hate the fact that all I can buy is American, and that I never find *any* Mexican or Candian made goods. :rolleyes:

I think if Canada added a huge tax to energy exports to the US then just maybe they might get the message to stop their illegal trade practices.

Wouldn't that be an illegal trade practice in itself?

I think if Canada added a huge tax to energy exports to the US then just maybe they might get the message to stop their illegal trade practices.

You mean, similar to the huge subsidies Canada gives its soft lumber industry?

yeah, i know. I'm just saying. The situation is so bad for Canada right now, with the US not admitting that they are wrong and stuff. I mean, even NAFTA ruled that they are wrong, but has the US ever listened to the international community? It's such a huge blow to our economy, especially to B.C.'s that it's painful. The BC government isn't helping with the spendings on the upcoming olympics either. The province's going to bankrupt soon at this rate.

I actually side with Canada on this issue. I am from Washington state and know first hand how the timber industry can be destroyed. Although it wasn't trade that killed it in Washington state. Enviromentalist destroyed the industry here with the "Spotted Owl" crap. Hopefully this gets resolved soon. I would personally like to see lumber prices drop a bit.

down with Canada!
Up with the lowest common denominator!

You mean, similar to the huge subsidies Canada gives its soft lumber industry?But it doesn't.
The Canadian government owns the majority of the property that Canadian logging companies use, and they charge less per stump than in the US, this is true.

There are, however, three factors that need to get brought into the equation, factors which NAFTA has considered.

1. Canadian lumber companies are required to pay for all the development costs of their activities (building roads, etc) as well as required to replant more trees than they cut down.

2. Canadian lumber companies had to deal with US protectionism for decades before NAFTA, this, coupled with the environmental regulations meant that in order to survive they've needed to take advantage of various advancements in technology and business processes, while the US companies have been under the protection of the US government for so long, they simply aren't competitive.

3. On top of both those things -- we've got more trees in the first place.

Of course, the WTO decision is moot anyway. The US & Canada agreed to abide by the rules of the NAFTA, and those have come down solidly on the Canadian side of the issue.

Continued flaunting of this agreement by the US should encourage us to withdraw from NAFTA, and thus from the requirement that we provide 75% of our exported oil to the US, regardless of the price offered elsewhere.

Given the rapid growth/energy demands of China, and Chavez' announcement of the new target price, it'd probably be better for us if we pulled out of the thing anyway.