NationStates Jolt Archive

Just curious as to everyones pros and cons of legalizing soft drugs like marijuana...

Nah. Just decriminalised. It's got great potential to bring in plenty of revenue. Still, if found to be in connection of other crimes (mostly of negligence I'd imagine, involving driving, etc) it should be prosecuted to the same extent as alcohol or other perception-alterers.

It already is silly. (where I am)

Decriminalised yes. Legalized perhaps not.

It's already legalised for medicinal purposes. I reckon it should only be legalised for recreational purposes after proper testing has been undergone on what officially classifies as a safe amount to take at any one time. After all, it looks as though there is a definite link between its overuse and mental conditions like schizophrenia.

I know it's partially legal, and fully in some places---but I mean international freedom to legalize it.

I think the govt should sell it---tax the sh!t out of it, man.

i heard somewhere that marijuana was actually not as bad for you as cigarettes, if thats the case then why not?

i heard somewhere that marijuana was actually not as bad for you as cigarettes, if thats the case then why not?

Exactly. Even if it is bad for you, what the hell does that have to do with the government?

Well, plenty of other things harmful to your mind are legal, like alcohol, reality TV, and pop music.:D Why not legalize marihuana? If I want to destroy my body and mind in a cloud of smoke rather than a pile of whiskey bottles, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

I find marijuana to be relatively harmless. Still, I'm not so sure legalization would really make much of a difference. The police would be less likely to harass you maybe, but the 'the government can tax it' crowd are forgetting that people have been growing their own for ages. Why stop?

Also, if it were legalized in Canada (home), it wouldn't stop our problem with grow houses and running across the border if the US decided to keep it illegal. It's the huge demand in the States that causes a lot of our marijauna issues up here (or marijuana profits, depending on how you want to look at it.)

IMHO, America needs to legalize and regulate marijauana, and crack down harder on other narcotics. I don't buy into the 'gateway' drug theory.

drugs were big in the 70's

what was accomplished then?

I honestly don't see how it will ever be legalized in light of how hard people are pushing to ban tobbacco.

I really don't think its any better or worse than cigarettes or alcohol, and should be subject to the same restrictions.

drugs were big in the 70's

what was accomplished then?

Killer music, man.

Illegal for recreational purposes, though legal for medical purposes(with a doctor's note)

Yes. If cigarrettes and coffee and alcohol are legal, then why not marijuana? it's a LOT less addictive than the things listed above, and it doesn't affect you nearly as much as alcohol does. The government can regulate the purchase and selling of pot like they do for alcohol, and I don't see how that would impact society so much.

I honestly don't see how it will ever be legalized in light of how hard people are pushing to ban tobbacco.

I really don't think its any better or worse than cigarettes or alcohol, and should be subject to the same restrictions.

alcohol, does not stay in your system as long as some "soft" drugs

Cigarettes, people find them relaxing, can take a break from work for a quick break, go back to work and still be able to do the work

But the fact of the matter is that alcohol kills and debilitates far more people than any legal or ilegal drug. Your logic is faulty.

But the fact of the matter is that alcohol kills and debilitates far more people than any legal or ilegal drug. Your logic is faulty.

how is my logic faulty, i never said alcohol doesnt kill

legalize drugs i garuntee the number of accidents caused by being under the influence will increase by far

how is my logic faulty, i never said alcohol doesnt kill

legalize drugs i garuntee the number of accidents caused by being under the influence will increase by far

do you realize how easily people can get marijuana anyway? Legalizing it would actually have the opposite effect, because the teenagers would think it's no big deal to get high since it's not "rebellious" and illegal anymore.

do you realize how easily people can get marijuana anyway? Legalizing it would actually have the opposite effect, because the teenagers would think it's no big deal to get high since it's not "rebellious" and illegal anymore.

yep that works with tobacco doesnt it?

it is very easy to get drugs at the moment, but there is aslo a fear of getting caught

do you realize how easily people can get marijuana anyway? Legalizing it would actually have the opposite effect, because the teenagers would think it's no big deal to get high since it's not "rebellious" and illegal anymore.

Yay reverse psychology?

do you realize how easily people can get marijuana anyway? Legalizing it would actually have the opposite effect, because the teenagers would think it's no big deal to get high since it's not "rebellious" and illegal anymore.

Smoking is still considered to be rebellious, and the number of people in the music industry that feed that image gets far more kids to smoke than joe camel ever did.

Majurana should be kept illegal. The drug ruins live your inter nueral activity in the brain. Enough will cause you to become brain dead:headbang: . It is a health hazard.

What I do to/with my body is none of the government's business.

Not who I share it with (consenting adults).

Not how I decorate it.

Not what I put in it.

Marijuana is safe in Moderate Quantities, and as long as your use a vaporizer.

Marajuana doesn't harm your brain, the only effects it has is, it makes food taste better, it makes you more playful, and it makes you think unconventionally for difficult subjects.

Actually Marajuana helps you drive better, since it gives you slight paranoia it helps you ensure you use all the signal and go below the speed limit.

Marijuana is safe in Moderate Quantities, and as long as your use a vaporizer.

Marajuana doesn't harm your brain, the only effects it has is, it makes food taste better, it makes you more playful, and it makes you think unconventionally for difficult subjects.

Actually Marajuana helps you drive better, since it gives you slight paranoia it helps you ensure you use all the signal and go below the speed limit.


hmmm?

where do you think this paranoia comes from?

the chance of getting caught?

I don't really understand the general thrust of the "stop people from slowly killing themselves" movement. If people want to smoke, tobacco or marijuana, why not let them... I agree with the philosophy that they should treat it like alcohol in terms of DUI etc. So long as they smoke and don't do something stupid, I'm all for it. Plus, I've never heard of an angry pot head. (as opposed to an angry drunk)

I don't really understand the general thrust of the "stop people from slowly killing themselves" movement. If people want to smoke, tobacco or marijuana, why not let them... I agree with the philosophy that they should treat it like alcohol in terms of DUI etc. So long as they smoke and don't do something stupid, I'm all for it. Plus, I've never heard of an angry pot head. (as opposed to an angry drunk)

Well, there's also the matter of people slowly killing other people. Course, mostly a smoking thing, not so much with marijuana.

Yeah. Go for the legalization. It might fuck up some peoples driving, and it might bring out latent scizophrenic tendencies, and it may cause lots of deaths. I'm down for it. I think the rates of driving deaths and such due to marijuana would not increase much if it was legalised. Besides, I'm down for death.

It's really none of the governments business what people do with their own bodies, as long as they harm no one else in the process (except, of course, in the case of a consenting adult agreeing to be harmed).

It's really none of the governments business what people do with their own bodies, as long as they harm no one else in the process (except, of course, in the case of a consenting adult agreeing to be harmed).

so is suicide okay then?

so is suicide okay then?

Yeah, why not?

Yeah, why not?

i dont know

state of depression, not thinking straight.

i dont know

state of depression, not thinking straight.

Ehh...I don't think it being illegal will do much anyways if'n they aren't thinking straight.

Marijuana should absolutely be legal, but you should only be able to smoke it on the private property of somebody who allows it.

And there should be the same restrictions agianst DUI as there are for alcohol, and it should have the same age limits. And, it should be taxed.

Legalizing marijuana would hugely reduce violent crime, and people wouldn't be buying marijuana that was cut with anything dangerous. It'd also create jobs and free up a lot of space in prisons for the criminals who actually need to be there.

Actually, I would also be in favor of having to buy licenses to smoke cigarettes or marijuana, or drink alcohol. Which you can buy for a reasonable price ($20?), and to acquire you need to take a course that honestly spells out the exact effects of any of them. That way, anybody who uses them is making an informed decision.

Marijuana should absolutely be legal, but you should only be able to smoke it on the private property of somebody who allows it.

And there should be the same restrictions agianst DUI as there are for alcohol, and it should have the same age limits. And, it should be taxed.

Legalizing marijuana would hugely reduce violent crime, and people wouldn't be buying marijuana that was cut with anything dangerous. It'd also create jobs and free up a lot of space in prisons for the criminals who actually need to be there.
It'd also be groovy.

so is suicide okay then?

Well, legally speaking, yeah.

I'm not gonna say its a good idea, or say that people should commit suicide, but its their choice.

Majurana should be kept illegal. The drug ruins live your inter nueral activity in the brain. Enough will cause you to become brain dead:headbang: . It is a health hazard.

How is that different from a legal chemical, such as alcohol? (which also eats up your liver)

For that matter...I enjoy river rafting, but some people have drowned running rivers. Should that be banned?

I enjoy backwoods skiing, but some people get lost, or break bones (haha - my 60yo dad is still in a cast), should that be banned?

And dude, the number of people killed by cars. Them autos need some banning faster than an assult rifle...

Marijuana should absolutely be kept illegal.

1. It kills initiative and motivation, something that is critical for people to have. One of the best (aka "one of the few good") anti-marijuana adds I've ever seen is the one where the pothead is talking about how marijuana hasn't screwed up his life at all. Heck, his life hasn't changed a bit since he had his first joint.
Then hims mom yells at him from downstairs, "Have you even looked for a job today!?"
Potheads may or may not do much active harm, but the drug certainly encourages people to become a drain on those around them, and on society as a whole.

2. People try to use pot to self-medicate for serious problems, and it only makes things worse. It's essentially a paralyzing agent that people use for a pain killer; it numbs you a bit, but you can't actually do anything useful while on it.

3. Some people stay away from pot simply because it is illegal. Sure, people who are somewhat streetwise (or schoolyard-wise) can find as much as they want, but the illegality keeps it out of the hands of timid and/or socially backwards people who might be willing and able to buy it from a store if it were legal, but who don't have the capacity or inclination to seek it out otherwise.

4. Some people smoke pot simply because of "Forbidden Fruit Syndrome". Legalize pot, and these people will then turn to harder drugs to get their "rule-breaking" thrills.

5. Pot makes people really boring. Sure, people who are high can be a bit interesting here or there, but mostly they just latch onto some word, phrase, or concept, and repeat it ad nauseum. People call pot a mind-expanding drug, but all it really does is shrink your mind to the point where everything else seems really big and deep.
Like the Mr. Boffo strip, "How low IQ can make every day new and exciting:"

"WoW! So this is what they mean when they say, 'No Mail'!"

6. People say, "But, but, But, Alcohol and cigarettes are legal!!! They kill many more people than pot does!!"
So what?
Just because those things are bad, that does not mean that pot is somehow good. So we've screwed up and let some bad things slip through the cracks, does that mean that we have to deliberately encourage more of the same?
Not at all. No need to stop bailing just because you're taking on water.
If you can find a feasible way to make alcohol and tobacco illegal, I'll back you 100%.

Also, one of the reasons why there are more tobacco and booze related deaths is precisely because pot is illegal. Make it legal, and more people will start using it, and the death rates associated with it will increase as more people use it, and as the current potheads use it more.

7. Sometimes people say stuff like "But Pot is natural! It's an herb!".
So's Deadly Nightshade. "Natural" does not mean "Healthy".

8. It's not just an issue of "people harming just themselves". DUI under pot is just as dangerous as with alcohol, not just to the person driving and their passengers, but to pedestrians and other drivers. No, I don't buy the "But I drive better stoned!" argument. You don't; it just seems like it at the time because you're high. Sure, there may be a few rare people out there who actually DO drive better stoned, but the laws are made for the majority, not the rare mutant exceptions.
Anyway, people on drugs screw up. There have already been potheads caught getting stoned while driving a train or working at a nuclear power plant, and other dangerous jobs where people's lives are at stake.
Probably because the potheads thought that they could "drive better stoned".
And, of course, there are the more subtle effects of hippy pan-handlers annoying people for weed-money, high teens screwing up orders at fast food places, joblessness, slacking, and all the other crap that goes along with having deliberately mentally impaired people running around loose in the world.
As Robert Benchley once said about alcohol, "Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that its compounding a felony."
True of booze and true of pot.
I'm for the immediate legalization of any recreational drug that gets the user as high as he/she wants, provided that the drug is also 100% fatal.
If it only kills brain cells, I sure as heck don't want you shambling around interfering with my life and cluttering up my planet.

All that being said, I am for medical marijuana use. If it's got a legitimate use, then there's no reason not to have it legal by prescription.
Furthermore, I think that it should be decriminalized to a heavy extent. "Illegal, resulting in a ticket and fine" has all the financial benefit of "legalize and tax" without turning the state into a drug lord, and it keeps our jails and prisons from being cluttered up by people who don't deserve to be there.

Well, legally speaking, yeah.

I'm not gonna say its a good idea, or say that people should commit suicide, but its their choice.

I think that suicide, while not really illegal, is one of the cruellest things you can do to the people who care about you.

I think that suicide, while not really illegal, is one of the cruellest things you can do to the people who care about you.

Like I said, I don't condone suicide.

I do, however, recognize the futility and immorality of making it illegal.

How is that different from a legal chemical, such as alcohol? (which also eats up your liver)

Addressed this argument in my other post.

For that matter...I enjoy river rafting, but some people have drowned running rivers. Should that be banned?

Nope. There are health benefits to rafting, and you're not particularly endangering anybody but yourself. And the danger is obvious, and broken bones aren't that tough to repair.
Rafting does not kill brain cells or impair judgment.
Besides, you're not likely to drive a car while rafting, or to river raft in the work place, or to bother people with "second-hand rafting".
And rafting can be considered a useful skill.

I enjoy backwoods skiing, but some people get lost, or break bones (haha - my 60yo dad is still in a cast), should that be banned?

Nope. Pretty much the same as rafting.
Sports are not drugs.

And dude, the number of people killed by cars. Them autos need some banning faster than an assult rifle...

It's balancing the factors of Usefulness vs. Danger.
Cars are dangerous, but extremely useful.
Pot is useless and dangerous.

Nobody is arguing that ALL dangerous activities be banned.

hmmm?

where do you think this paranoia comes from?

the chance of getting caught?

Hell no. Thats rubbish. Paranoia is a side effect plain and simple.

Majurana should be kept illegal. The drug ruins live your inter nueral activity in the brain. Enough will cause you to become brain dead:headbang: . It is a health hazard.

All you can eat buffets are health hazards. Cars are health hazards. For the record, I have never inhaled anything but second-hand smoke, however, if dumb people want to become dumber, I have no problem with that.

As far as taxing it, yes, there will always be homegrown, but only by poor people. The only downside with tasing the hell out of pot is that the government will squander the revenues like they always do and I'll be no better off for it.

Now, I have read studies that say marijuana does no long-term mental damage, but that is BS. Anyone who used regularly in their youth or anyone who knows someone well who regularly smoked can tell you that you never regain your full mental capacity.

PS I am saying that you should kill yourself. All of you. Suicide is the answer to all of your problems.http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=manly_suicide

Nobody is arguing that ALL dangerous activities be banned.

But why should ANY? I mean, if you don't qualifiably harm anyone but yourself, how is it reasonable to punish you? That's just stupid.

All you can eat buffets are health hazards. Cars are health hazards. For the record, I have never inhaled anything but second-hand smoke, however, if dumb people want to become dumber, I have no problem with that.

Why do some people think your dumb if you smoke pot? It's a nice way to relax, and it's very enlightening too.

Dumb is getting completely drunk and ending up in a police cell riddled with your own blood and vomit.

Marijuana should absolutely be kept illegal.

1. It kills initiative and motivation, something that is critical for people to have. One of the best (aka "one of the few good") anti-marijuana adds I've ever seen is the one where the pothead is talking about how marijuana hasn't screwed up his life at all. Heck, his life hasn't changed a bit since he had his first joint.
Then hims mom yells at him from downstairs, "Have you even looked for a job today!?"
Potheads may or may not do much active harm, but the drug certainly encourages people to become a drain on those around them, and on society as a whole.

2. People try to use pot to self-medicate for serious problems, and it only makes things worse. It's essentially a paralyzing agent that people use for a pain killer; it numbs you a bit, but you can't actually do anything useful while on it.

3. Some people stay away from pot simply because it is illegal. Sure, people who are somewhat streetwise (or schoolyard-wise) can find as much as they want, but the illegality keeps it out of the hands of timid and/or socially backwards people who might be willing and able to buy it from a store if it were legal, but who don't have the capacity or inclination to seek it out otherwise.

4. Some people smoke pot simply because of "Forbidden Fruit Syndrome". Legalize pot, and these people will then turn to harder drugs to get their "rule-breaking" thrills.

5. Pot makes people really boring. Sure, people who are high can be a bit interesting here or there, but mostly they just latch onto some word, phrase, or concept, and repeat it ad nauseum. People call pot a mind-expanding drug, but all it really does is shrink your mind to the point where everything else seems really big and deep.
Like the Mr. Boffo strip, "How low IQ can make every day new and exciting:"

"WoW! So this is what they mean when they say, 'No Mail'!"

6. People say, "But, but, But, Alcohol and cigarettes are legal!!! They kill many more people than pot does!!"
So what?
Just because those things are bad, that does not mean that pot is somehow good. So we've screwed up and let some bad things slip through the cracks, does that mean that we have to deliberately encourage more of the same?
Not at all. No need to stop bailing just because you're taking on water.
If you can find a feasible way to make alcohol and tobacco illegal, I'll back you 100%.

Also, one of the reasons why there are more tobacco and booze related deaths is precisely because pot is illegal. Make it legal, and more people will start using it, and the death rates associated with it will increase as more people use it, and as the current potheads use it more.

7. Sometimes people say stuff like "But Pot is natural! It's an herb!".
So's Deadly Nightshade. "Natural" does not mean "Healthy".

8. It's not just an issue of "people harming just themselves". DUI under pot is just as dangerous as with alcohol, not just to the person driving and their passengers, but to pedestrians and other drivers. No, I don't buy the "But I drive better stoned!" argument. You don't; it just seems like it at the time because you're high. Sure, there may be a few rare people out there who actually DO drive better stoned, but the laws are made for the majority, not the rare mutant exceptions.
Anyway, people on drugs screw up. There have already been potheads caught getting stoned while driving a train or working at a nuclear power plant, and other dangerous jobs where people's lives are at stake.
Probably because the potheads thought that they could "drive better stoned".
And, of course, there are the more subtle effects of hippy pan-handlers annoying people for weed-money, high teens screwing up orders at fast food places, joblessness, slacking, and all the other crap that goes along with having deliberately mentally impaired people running around loose in the world.
As Robert Benchley once said about alcohol, "Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that its compounding a felony."
True of booze and true of pot.
I'm for the immediate legalization of any recreational drug that gets the user as high as he/she wants, provided that the drug is also 100% fatal.
If it only kills brain cells, I sure as heck don't want you shambling around interfering with my life and cluttering up my planet.

All that being said, I am for medical marijuana use. If it's got a legitimate use, then there's no reason not to have it legal by prescription.
Furthermore, I think that it should be decriminalized to a heavy extent. "Illegal, resulting in a ticket and fine" has all the financial benefit of "legalize and tax" without turning the state into a drug lord, and it keeps our jails and prisons from being cluttered up by people who don't deserve to be there.

Know what?riving while too sleepy is just as dangerous as driving stoned.

It's a matter of the person knowing their limits, sober, high, drunk, whatever.

Know what?riving while too sleepy is just as dangerous as driving stoned.

It's a matter of the person knowing their limits, sober, high, drunk, whatever.

Absolutely true, but what are you going to do, outlaw sleep?

Sure, we could try the old "trusting people to behave responsibly" line, but I think that human history has pretty solidly proven that this isn't a viable option.

It's about people knowing their limits, as you say, and most people don't. Or, at least, a large enough percentage are ignorant enough of their limits that certain substances must be controlled.

Absolutely true, but what are you going to do, outlaw sleep?

Sure, we could try the old "trusting people to behave responsibly" line, but I think that human history has pretty solidly proven that this isn't a viable option.

It's about people knowing their limits, as you say, and most people don't. Or, at least, a large enough percentage are ignorant enough of their limits that certain substances must be controlled.

think about the instances of DUI you've heard on the news. THEN think about the BILLIONS of people who drive everyday, to wherever they need to go. The safe drivers FAR outnumber the unsafe ones, so stop being so cynical and pessimistic.

think about the instances of DUI you've heard on the news. THEN think about the BILLIONS of people who drive everyday, to wherever they need to go. The safe drivers FAR outnumber the unsafe ones, so stop being so cynical and pessimistic.

"Billions"? Really?
How many billions do you imagine drive in a given day?

In any case, your argument seems to be that if it won't kill everybody then it's not dangerous.
I don't think I agree with that.

think about the instances of DUI you've heard on the news. THEN think about the BILLIONS of people who drive everyday, to wherever they need to go. The safe drivers FAR outnumber the unsafe ones, so stop being so cynical and pessimistic.
It doesn't take BILLIONS to kill. It takes one. We know we have far more than that. The majority of accidents involve impared drivers. They kill the rest of us. Why would we impare even one more, knowing his odds of killing one of us go vastly up?

Know what?riving while too sleepy is just as dangerous as driving stoned.

It's a matter of the person knowing their limits, sober, high, drunk, whatever.
Just because one thing is dangerous we should allow other things that are dangerous?

Why do some people think your dumb if you smoke pot? It's a nice way to relax, and it's very enlightening too.

Nah smoking pot makes you dumb. Brain cells dying in squadrons. ;)

Why do some people think your dumb if you smoke pot? It's a nice way to relax, and it's very enlightening too.

Dumb is getting completely drunk and ending up in a police cell riddled with your own blood and vomit.
I've known a lot of potheads. Enlightened is not one of their characteristics.

Nah smoking pot makes you dumb. Brain cells dying in squadrons. ;)
yeah, but you've got plenty of spares... ;)

i'm all for legalisation. you can get what you want anyway, let's tax it and get rid of all the crime which comes inevitabily when you foribd sme behaviour that actually peolpe likes. i thought everibody had learnt the lessons back in th 20s when they tried to ban alcohol (weeps in silence).

Absolutely true, but what are you going to do, outlaw sleep?

I wont, but you seem about willing to.

Driving when you're not mentally capapble is the only law needed to cover DUI, driving when you're falling asleep, when you're doped up from legally prescribed and properly used meds, etc (though there's additional laws against DUI...)

No need to ban weed (or alcohol!).

For that matter, a lot of people who are completely sober can't drive worth a damn either... Someone drunk and swerving is almost safer, I know I need to avoid them!

Just because one thing is dangerous we should allow other things that are dangerous?

Um, you got my post ass-backwards.

I was trying to point out to Godweavers that a good portion of his argument for banning weed is rather silly.

I say legalise it, along with all other drugs. Hey, it's your body; do what you want with it.

...I have the odd feeling that I've posted in this thread before...

I think that suicide, while not really illegal, is one of the cruellest things you can do to the people who care about you.

Possibly. Then again, we indeed do not wish to force people to be nice or rational. The inquisition and Soviet Union tried that already and were not that succesful in the long run. Not to mention the fact that there will be somewhat different opinions on what concepts like "nice", rational"" and "useful" actually mean.

hmmm?

where do you think this paranoia comes from?

the chance of getting caught?

The paranoia is a result of being intoxicated from THC. Your brain doesn't care if the THC is from pills or a phat blunt, legal or not, no matter what you're going to be edgier then normal... slightly.

Just curious as to everyones pros and cons of legalizing soft drugs like marijuana...

Absolutly!http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/GSR40ADDICT/STUFF/BANANA.gif

I think that softdrugs should be strictly monitored by the goverment and harddrugs should be banned completely of course. Here in Holland the discussion is should softdrugs be legalized completely or not? Personally I think that our current system works out fine. People who wush to use it can, but still as a society you give a statement that you are against it. I think that is good. I have seen many people around me at young age start to use marijuana and they look awfull now, and they would not have start using if we did not have coffeeshops. So there is a thin line in this, but in a civilized country the choice is king and I believe we should give everyone their own responcibility in this.

Absolutely true, but what are you going to do, outlaw sleep?

Sure, we could try the old "trusting people to behave responsibly" line, but I think that human history has pretty solidly proven that this isn't a viable option.

It's about people knowing their limits, as you say, and most people don't. Or, at least, a large enough percentage are ignorant enough of their limits that certain substances must be controlled.

It is an interesting fact that people act how they are expected to. If you order a child around, as if they cannot think for themselves, they will lose their self control. If you act as if a person with ADD is stupid, then they will lose their ability to think clearly. In our 'father knows best' society, we are ordered and restricted in everything we do. So we act as if we need them, as if we are not responsible enough to think for ourselves. A little experiment was carried out a few years ago. All the traffic lights in a village were taken down. Motor accidents went down, because people were judging for themselves when was the right time to go. The same will be with this. Give people the freedom, and they will most likely make the right choice. Do not, and they will fufill your fantasies of chaos, and disaster. A certain section of the population is ignorant for that reason, they rely on the government to do their thinking for them.

Just a thought.

While I come froma country where marihuana is somewhat decriminalized (though the government seems to do just about everything to muddle up the laws and practices), I think I m still for the legalisation of weed (to which soft-drug I shall currently limit myself), with the taxes, control of usage, the control of quality and what-not. Legalisation could make an end to a large part of illegal home-growing activities, problems with people setting their houses or sheds on fire, taking illegal energy, etc.

It is also a large blow against criminal organisations who have their eye on people with low incomes (often living in the same neighbourhoods). Those poor people get asked by organisations to grow for them in return for a fair amount of money. Most of the home-growing is done through intermediaries and not by the organisations themselves here.

Furthermore, given the recent outcries here in holland by our ever-parental government concerning the rise in the level of thc, the government could use the legalisation as a means to prevent the kind of abuse that will leave many people of the marihuana-persuasion the kind of lame, slow and lazy potheads many people here seem to instantly think of.

Pot can make you lazy, it can be detrimental to the learning proces of children and people of any age as well. BUT (and it's a big one), it is not necessarily so. There are plenty people I know who can smoke weed and have regular jobs, go to school and do well there, who avoid becoming slouchers and moochers, who do have initiative and fresh new ideas - , AND work them out etc.

Like with any drug, the problem is with moderation. I believe pot should be illegal for anyone under the age of 18, beyond that age, if you are old enough to vote you should certainly be old enough to know what your body can and cannot handle. Even though this is a learning proces and people are notorious for going over their limits.

I myself have smoked pot for a few years. I agree it can make you unmotivated at times. I had to learn to smoke it moderately, and like everyone I made mistakes. But to prevent people from learning with the added line of: "it's bad for your body" seems something that governments should not be able to say imho.

I say, if every man and woman has not the right to do to their own bodies as they will, how free are we then? (I know there are many possible arguments against this: stupidity, depression or other mental illnesses, social consequences, etc). Do they have the right to prevent people from experiencing the new and the strange because they might hurt themselves?

I could've typed this better.... I hope some point comes across.

I wont, but you seem about willing to.

Driving when you're not mentally capapble is the only law needed to cover DUI, driving when you're falling asleep, when you're doped up from legally prescribed and properly used meds, etc (though there's additional laws against DUI...)

That would be great, except too many people would screw it up.

No need to ban weed (or alcohol!).

No need to legalize it either.

For that matter, a lot of people who are completely sober can't drive worth a damn either... Someone drunk and swerving is almost safer, I know I need to avoid them!

Not all drunk people swerve around, or carry a bright neon sign on their car that says, "Danger, I'm REALLY drunk!":rolleyes:

It is an interesting fact that people act how they are expected to.

It's mostly interesting because it's not actually a fact.

If you order a child around, as if they cannot think for themselves, they will lose their self control. If you act as if a person with ADD is stupid, then they will lose their ability to think clearly. In our 'father knows best' society, we are ordered and restricted in everything we do. So we act as if we need them, as if we are not responsible enough to think for ourselves. A little experiment was carried out a few years ago. All the traffic lights in a village were taken down. Motor accidents went down, because people were judging for themselves when was the right time to go. The same will be with this. Give people the freedom, and they will most likely make the right choice. Do not, and they will fufill your fantasies of chaos, and disaster. A certain section of the population is ignorant for that reason, they rely on the government to do their thinking for them.

Just a thought.

Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. Not all of the time, and not the majority of the time.
Otherwise we could eliminate crime entirly by applyin the Honor System.

To get back on topic... Marijuana should not be legalized. Its worse then cigarettes or beer on your mind. It is also a gateway drug.

Um, you got my post ass-backwards.

I was trying to point out to Godweavers that a good portion of his argument for banning weed is rather silly.

It seems like he got your post right, and was restating your argument more clearly.

X being dangerous has no bearing on whether Y should be legal.

Unless X is because of Y or is XY.

Algebra solves all.

It is also a gateway drug.

:D hahahaha! The classic claim, with no evidence to back it up.

You do realise most pot users started smoking fags and drinking alcohol before doing pot, should we ban them for fear of being gateway drugs?

To get back on topic... Marijuana should not be legalized. Its worse then cigarettes or beer on your mind.

Not really. I've never blacked-out from smoking pot while there are many nights drinking that I cannot recall.

:D hahahaha! The classic claim, with no evidence to back it up.


Actually smoking pot doesn't make you more likely to take other drugs. However, in order to buy pot, you're going to have know a drug-dealer, and from that you're going to find it easier to get your hands on other drugs.

I've never blacked-out from smoking pot while there are many nights drinking that I cannot recall.

You clearly aren't smoking enough.

Smoke 9 of these (http://gallery.marihemp.com/albums/TaZeRs-Pics/spliff.jpeg) and see me tomorrow morning... well, afternoon.... well, whenever.

Actually smoking pot doesn't make you more likely to take other drugs. However, in order to buy pot, you're going to have know a drug-dealer, and from that you're going to find it easier to get your hands on other drugs.
Doesn't make it a gateway drug though, does it? It just means that you're being forced to go into the criminal underworld where everything else is on offer. Now if it was legal you wouldn't be associating with the dealers would you?

You clearly aren't smoking enough.

Don't I know it.

Now if it was legal you wouldn't be associating with the dealers would you?

No. Which is yet another argument in favor of it's legalization.

No. Which is yet another argument in favor of it's legalization.

Now to work on getting people to think that all drugs should be legalised

It think it ought to be decriminalized, but the government shouldn't get involved in any way with it or its manufacture. That would just result in marijuana becoming more public, which really doesn't help anyone, seeing as people would just keep on buying from cheaper suppliers (as government brands would have the price jacked by purity laws). Criminalizing it, I believe, just makes the available supply more dangerous. Not to mention, there's no real grounds for criminalizing it. Of course, employers would reserve the right to penalize employees for arriving at work under the influence, and driving under the influence ought to be illegal, as well. Just look at alcohol prohibition for a decent comparison.

Now to work on getting people to think that all drugs should be legalised

I guess some people like a paternalistic government that tells them and others what they shouldn't or should do. I'd rather not have that and let people decide themselves what they want to put in their body.

It think it ought to be decriminalized, but the government shouldn't get involved in any way with it or its manufacture.


That would be a mistake. No only would Joe Citizen miss out from the tax revenue generated from the sale of pot, there would continue to be no quality assurance on the pot and the profits of the sale of pot would continue to enrich criminals.


seeing as people would just keep on buying from cheaper suppliers (as government brands would have the price jacked by purity laws).

Government pot would almost defiantly be cheaper, as they would be able to access economies of scale that cannot be reached by criminal endeavor.

:D hahahaha! The classic claim, with no evidence to back it up.

Just the fact that things work that way a lot.

You do realise most pot users started smoking fags and drinking alcohol before doing pot, should we ban them for fear of being gateway drugs?

Okay.

Okay.

How about milk? Most alcoholics started on milk.

How about milk? Most alcoholics started on milk.

Most everybody starts on milk. It's part of being a mammal. :)

1. It kills initiative and motivation, something that is critical for people to have.

It only has that effect when experiencing the high. It is a recreational drug and no one is recommending using recreational drugs at work or school - just decriminalizing this particular one.


Potheads may or may not do much active harm, but the drug certainly encourages people to become a drain on those around them, and on society as a whole.

This would be true if pot's motivational effects were absolute, automatic and irreversible.

2. People try to use pot to self-medicate for serious problems, and it only makes things worse. It's essentially a paralyzing agent that people use for a pain killer; it numbs you a bit, but you can't actually do anything useful while on it.

Some people shop or eat chocolate for the exact same reason.

People try to use anything to self-medicate for their problems. In this case it's the "people" and not the "anything" that is at fault.


3. Some people stay away from pot simply because it is illegal. Sure, people who are somewhat streetwise (or schoolyard-wise) can find as much as they want, but the illegality keeps it out of the hands of timid and/or socially backwards people who might be willing and able to buy it from a store if it were legal, but who don't have the capacity or inclination to seek it out otherwise.

The people who don't have the "inclination to seek it out" are likely those same amotivational drains on society you were talking about.

And how many people are these "some people"?

Because approximately 96.8 million Americans ages 12 and older reported trying marijuana at least once during their lifetimes (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/index.html#extentofuse), despite the fact that it's illegal. Kinda seems to me like it's illegality hasn't really stopped people from doing it!

4. Some people smoke pot simply because of "Forbidden Fruit Syndrome". Legalize pot, and these people will then turn to harder drugs to get their "rule-breaking" thrills.

Oh, but there's the "gateway drug" aspect and those people will turn to harder drugs anyway, so it doesn't seem to make a difference whether marijuana is criminalized or not.

5. Pot makes people really boring. Sure, people who are high can be a bit interesting here or there, but mostly they just latch onto some word, phrase, or concept, and repeat it ad nauseum. People call pot a mind-expanding drug, but all it really does is shrink your mind to the point where everything else seems really big and deep.

So what?

This is your actual reason for wanting to keep it illegal? It makes people boring? Like everyone would be fucking entertaining, charming, witty and clever, if not for that bastardly marijuana?


6. People say, "But, but, But, Alcohol and cigarettes are legal!!! They kill many more people than pot does!!"
So what?
Just because those things are bad, that does not mean that pot is somehow good.

No, but it does mean that the law is inconsistent about illegalizing something because of it's health effects. If health is a reason to criminalize marijuana, it logically follows that you should argue for the criminalization of alcohol and cigarettes too, for that same reason, yes?

So we've screwed up and let some bad things slip through the cracks, does that mean that we have to deliberately encourage more of the same?

It's not more of the same. A drunk driver is much, much more likely to cause an accident than a stoned one. An alcoholic is far more likely to beat his family. Alcohol also causes Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, which has no parallel in marijuana usage.

So yes, actually legalizing marijuana would be encouraging something different and, statistically speaking, much less harmful.


If you can find a feasible way to make alcohol and tobacco illegal, I'll back you 100%.

Yeah, so at least you're consistent.

But how do you plan on *enforcing* another Prohibition on alcohol?

What's your feasible way to *enforce* the illegality of marijuana? Arrest 98 million people?

Also, one of the reasons why there are more tobacco and booze related deaths is precisely because pot is illegal. Make it legal, and more people will start using it, and the death rates associated with it will increase as more people use it, and as the current potheads use it more.

No, booze related deaths happen because alcohol is, quite literally, a poison. (Hence the term, "intoxication," from the word "toxic.") It's why you can overdose on alcohol and die.

On the other hand you can't OD on marijuana, legal or no.

Not to mention those other problems I mentioned with alcohol. Alcohol causes more deaths because it is more dangerous a drug to use, simple as that.

7. Sometimes people say stuff like "But Pot is natural! It's an herb!".
So's Deadly Nightshade. "Natural" does not mean "Healthy".

Oh, I agree.

But this is a strawman. I don't argue marijuana's legality because it's "natural."

8. It's not just an issue of "people harming just themselves". DUI under pot is just as dangerous as with alcohol,

Fact or fiction?

On what do you make this judgement?

No, I don't buy the "But I drive better stoned!" argument. You don't; it just seems like it at the time because you're high. Sure, there may be a few rare people out there who actually DO drive better stoned, but the laws are made for the majority, not the rare mutant exceptions.

I don't buy your "DUI alcohol is just as bad as DUI marijuana" argument.


Anyway, people on drugs screw up. There have already been potheads caught getting stoned while driving a train or working at a nuclear power plant, and other dangerous jobs where people's lives are at stake.

Were they caught doing anything particularly dangerous? Otherwise this only shows that there are people on drugs. ;)


And, of course, there are the more subtle effects of hippy pan-handlers annoying people for weed-money

I thought they pan-handled for alcohol? Guess you know 'em better. ;)

high teens screwing up orders at fast food places

Oh for fucks sake. I had my McDonald's order screwed up (vanila shake instead of chocolate, -4 McNuggets!) and it was neither a teen nor a stoned person to blame.

And even if it was, this is almost as petty as your "pot makes people boring" argument.

, joblessness, slacking, and all the other crap that goes along with having deliberately mentally impaired people running around loose in the world.

I think your extrapolation of the marijuana effects to making a generalization about how anyone who uses marijuana is constantly "mentally impaired" is silly at best.

It only has that effect when experiencing the high. It is a recreational drug and no one is recommending using recreational drugs at work or school - just decriminalizing this particular one.

Decriminalizing is one thing, legalizing is another.
As for the effects of pot, the lack of motivation lasts longer than the high does.

This would be true if pot's motivational effects were absolute, automatic and irreversible.

It's true anyway.

Some people shop or eat chocolate for the exact same reason.

Sure, but shopping is a necessity.
Chocolate isn't harmful.

People try to use anything to self-medicate for their problems. In this case it's the "people" and not the "anything" that is at fault.

Of course it's the people.
Pot by itself does no harm. It's people smoking it that's the problem.

The people who don't have the "inclination to seek it out" are likely those same amotivational drains on society you were talking about.

Nope. Just people who have different, more available hobbies.

And how many people are these "some people"?

Because approximately 96.8 million Americans ages 12 and older reported trying marijuana at least once during their lifetimes (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/index.html#extentofuse), despite the fact that it's illegal. Kinda seems to me like it's illegality hasn't really stopped people from doing it!

It seems to me that it has, or those numbers would be higher.
Compare those numbers to the number of people who have tried alcohol.

There's also a difference between "trying at least once" and using. There are plenty of people who might try it if they bump into it at a party, but who aren't willing to actively seek it out. If it's legal, then it's a lot easier for everybody to bump into.

Oh, but there's the "gateway drug" aspect and those people will turn to harder drugs anyway, so it doesn't seem to make a difference whether marijuana is criminalized or not.

Just because something is a gateway drug doesn't mean that everybody who tries it will always move on to other things.

So what?

This is your actual reason for wanting to keep it illegal? It makes people boring? Like everyone would be fucking entertaining, charming, witty and clever, if not for that bastardly marijuana?

Nah, that's just one of the minor reasons why I don't like the stuff.

No, but it does mean that the law is inconsistent about illegalizing something because of it's health effects. If health is a reason to criminalize marijuana, it logically follows that you should argue for the criminalization of alcohol and cigarettes too, for that same reason, yes?

As I've said; bring it on.
I'll be happy when tobacco is finally removed from society.
Alcohol is simply too tough to get rid of at this point. They tried making it illegal once, and that didn't work very well. Unless they can come up with a more effective strategy to get rid of it, booze will have to stay for a while.

It's not more of the same. A drunk driver is much, much more likely to cause an accident than a stoned one.

I simply disagree there.

An alcoholic is far more likely to beat his family.

Yup.

Alcohol also causes Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, which has no parallel in marijuana usage.

I'll buy that.

So yes, actually legalizing marijuana would be encouraging something different and, statistically speaking, much less harmful.

It's still a "If mugging is legalized, then pickpocketing should be too" argument.
The problem is NOT that the lesser act is illegal. It's that the other act IS legal.
Best case scenario, all you're doing is building a case that alcohol should be illegal. Which I already agree with, IF there's ever a practical way to do it.

Yeah, so at least you're consistent.

But how do you plan on *enforcing* another Prohibition on alcohol?

I don't. Like I said, it can't be done. Not now, anyway.

What's your feasible way to *enforce* the illegality of marijuana? Arrest 98 million people?

Nope. Just arrest and ticket as many of the users as we can, jail the dealers, come up with better anti-drug propaganda, and so on.
We can't arrest all burglars either.

No, booze related deaths happen because alcohol is, quite literally, a poison. (Hence the term, "intoxication," from the word "toxic.") It's why you can overdose on alcohol and die.

Okay, that too. :)

On the other hand you can't OD on marijuana, legal or no.

I'm not sure about that. You can OD on pretty much anything.
Granted, it's not too likely with marijuana.
Of course, smoking causes cancer. Not as quick as alcohol poisoning, but it's not a good thing.

Not to mention those other problems I mentioned with alcohol. Alcohol causes more deaths because it is more dangerous a drug to use, simple as that.

The more common pot is, the higher the pot-related death toll will be. You make a good case for alcohol being deadlier. It doesn't matter much though, because the fact is that pot can still be deadly.
What about tobacco?

Oh, I agree.
But this is a strawman. I don't argue marijuana's legality because it's "natural."

You don't, but other people have.
It's not a strawman, it's a pre-emptive counterpoint to an argument that I've heard all too often.

Fact or fiction?
On what do you make this judgement?

Pot impairs judgement and slows down reflexes. That's a bad thing when you're driving.

I don't buy your "DUI alcohol is just as bad as DUI marijuana" argument.

Okay, don't.

Were they caught doing anything particularly dangerous? Otherwise this only shows that there are people on drugs. ;)

Good point.
Can we agree though, that these are jobs where reflexes and attentiveness can be crucial? Where being chemically impaired could result in mishap?

I thought they pan-handled for alcohol? Guess you know 'em better. ;)

They do that too.

Oh for fucks sake. I had my McDonald's order screwed up (vanila shake instead of chocolate, -4 McNuggets!) and it was neither a teen nor a stoned person to blame.

And even if it was, this is almost as petty as your "pot makes people boring" argument.

Yup.
I'm not hinging my case on either point, just stating my views.


I think your extrapolation of the marijuana effects to making a generalization about how anyone who uses marijuana is constantly "mentally impaired" is silly at best.

For the most part (other than decreased motivation and other subtle changes) people are only impaired while high.
But that's enough, since people (as a whole) cannot be trusted to act responsibly.

Yes.. Yes it should be.

Marijuana is no more addicting than a massage. People that want to keep it a crime argue that it is a detriment to society, and it contributes to what they define as a "bad" lifestyle. Like it's harmful or whatever. But look how many legal and harmful things that millions of americans participate in daily: mainstream media, fast food (clog those arteries, USA) smoking, alcohol, not excersising. Its legal for me to harm myself by eating a big mac every week and never excersising, and smoke cigarettes like a chimney and have a terrible alcohol abuse problem, but god forbid a man ingest a plant on the same level as TEA.

I'd never make anyone's lifestyle illegal no matter how much I hated it. For instance I might dislike your taste in music or the television shows you watch, but I'd never try to ban it, anymore than I would force you to smoke it weed. Leave the people's personal choices with themselves and get the government out of free personal will.

Heh, I once lived in a little part of the world where the possession of marijuana was simply ignored: Bennington College in Bennington, Vermont. And let me tell you, it was awesome. My father was the king of marijuana in the 70s and all of my friends at Bennington are potheads, and from my experience, I find that there's absolutely nothing wrong with marijuana. I was definitely more afraid of all of the alcoholics on campus. All my pothead friends were just chill--they don't want to get up in anyone's grill.

So in short, I'm all for the decriminalisation of marijuana.

Marijuana is no more addicting than a massage. People that want to keep it a crime argue that it is a detriment to society, and it contributes to what they define as a "bad" lifestyle. Like it's harmful or whatever. But look how many legal and harmful things that millions of americans participate in daily:

Doesn't matter.
Just because you do one thing that hurts you doesn't mean that you should compound things.

mainstream media,

:rolleyes:

fast food (clog those arteries, USA)

Yup. It's unhealthy.
Not as unhealthy as not eating, though.
It's the lesser of two evils.

smoking, alcohol,

Fine. Figure out a good way to get rid of those, and I'm all for it.

not excersising.

There's a significant difference between actively harming yourself and in not actively helping yourself.

Its legal for me to harm myself by eating a big mac every week and never excersising, and smoke cigarettes like a chimney and have a terrible alcohol abuse problem, but god forbid a man ingest a plant on the same level as TEA.

Right, that must be it. Pot is on the same level as tea.
Sure. :rolleyes:

I'd never make anyone's lifestyle illegal no matter how much I hated it. For instance I might dislike your taste in music or the television shows you watch, but I'd never try to ban it, anymore than I would force you to smoke it weed. Leave the people's personal choices with themselves and get the government out of free personal will.

I'm sure that sociopathic killers will be glad to hear that you'd never want to make their lifestyle illegal, no matter how much you hate it.

Yes. If cigarrettes and coffee and alcohol are legal, then why not marijuana? it's a LOT less addictive than the things listed above, and it doesn't affect you nearly as much as alcohol does. The government can regulate the purchase and selling of pot like they do for alcohol, and I don't see how that would impact society so much.

No.And while you're at it ban alchool and Tobbaco

Yes, all drugs should be legalized and taxed to pay for consumer awareness programs. That way every person who takes a hit of heroin knows they likely won't be able to go back... plus there can be Surgeon Generals Warnings on each drug sold for recreational use.
If someone wants to buy something, there's nothing wrong with that. They are only hurting themselves.

what if they give it to litle children

what if they give it to litle children

Yes, what if? If they give it to little children, then they should be charged and put in jail. Same as if somebody gave alcohol, rat poison, or TNT to a child.

what if they give it to litle children

Look, most people here are arguing for the legality of marijuana, but not for minors. Therefore, giving a minor drugs would be illegal. Therefore, give a little kid some shit, you go to jail... But for me, I say go for it! Turn 3 year olds into jukies. But I just hate kids...

Decriminalizing is one thing, legalizing is another.
As for the effects of pot, the lack of motivation lasts longer than the high does.

No, it really doesn't.

Sure, but shopping is a necessity.

ORLY?

Shopping is an "event." Its not just going to get some essential supplies necessary for survival. It's milling around the places of shopping like a fucking zombie hen!

Chocolate isn't harmful.

Oh ho, yes it is! It contains caffeine, which is a psychoactive with addictive potential that affects things like heart disease and obesity.


Of course it's the people.
Pot by itself does no harm. It's people smoking it that's the problem.

Right. And chocolate by itself does no harm, it's the fatasses celebrating and buying and munching it down constantly that's the problem. BAN CHOCOLATE NOW!


Nope. Just people who have different, more available hobbies.


No, you actually specified timid or socially backwards people. Those people are actually dysfunctional, not just "different."

It seems to me that it has, or those numbers would be higher.
Compare those numbers to the number of people who have tried alcohol.

Well that's no fair, since certain alcoholic beverages are mandated by religions which do not involve ceremonial or festive marijuana use.

A more useful comparison might be how many people smoked marijuana before the "Reefer Madness" propaganda splurge and how many did afterward.


There's also a difference between "trying at least once" and using. There are plenty of people who might try it if they bump into it at a party, but who aren't willing to actively seek it out. If it's legal, then it's a lot easier for everybody to bump into.

Yes there is - but you don't factor that difference into your paradigm. You seem to assume pot smoking = hippie welfare bum living at home with Ma at age 32. A stereotype which I think is unwarranted given the large numbers of people who have used or use marijuana.

Just because something is a gateway drug doesn't mean that everybody who tries it will always move on to other things.

True, true. And just because something is illegal doesn't mean the "rule breakers" will try it - or that if marijuana was made legal, they would immediately go to more dangerous drugs instead.


As I've said; bring it on.
I'll be happy when tobacco is finally removed from society.
Alcohol is simply too tough to get rid of at this point. They tried making it illegal once, and that didn't work very well. Unless they can come up with a more effective strategy to get rid of it, booze will have to stay for a while.

So you support the prohibition of alcohol, but you realize there is no real way to enforce the ban? So why not realize that there is no real way to enforce marijuana's prohibition either and give up on that "for a while" too?

I simply disagree there.

Well, I can't make you agree. ;)

All I can do is suggest you try walking a straight line after a fifth of vodka... then compare it with walking a straight line after a blunt.


It's still a "If mugging is legalized, then pickpocketing should be too" argument.

What's wrong with that? It makes sense to me. If you're gonna have mugging legalized, it's hypocritical to outlaw pickpocketing, no?

Best case scenario, all you're doing is building a case that alcohol should be illegal. Which I already agree with, IF there's ever a practical way to do it.

Well, there is. Socialist totalitarianism!


Nope. Just arrest and ticket as many of the users as we can, jail the dealers, come up with better anti-drug propaganda, and so on.

But that's what we're doing right now. And the only thing it's really doing is giving the government an excuse to rape each and every one of us up the ass with taxes.


I'm not sure about that. You can OD on pretty much anything.

According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, the LD50, the lethal dose for 50% of rats tested by inhalation, is 42 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. That is equivalent of a 165 lb (75 kg) man ingesting all of the THC in 21 one-gram cigarettes of maximum-potency (15% THC) cannabis buds at once, assuming no THC was lost through burning or exhalation.

So yes, technically there is a lethal dose.

But you'd have to be a demigod to get there.

Of course, smoking causes cancer. Not as quick as alcohol poisoning, but it's not a good thing.

Sunlight causes cancer too, remember.

And yes, I think we should outlaw sunlight. The good point being this would make growing marijuana plants impossible too! ;)


The more common pot is, the higher the pot-related death toll will be. You make a good case for alcohol being deadlier. It doesn't matter much though, because the fact is that pot can still be deadly.

Pretty much anything CAN be deadly.

But the "deadliness" of marijuana comes entirely from the act of smoking it. Trouble is, with it being illegal, smoking it is the easiest and most convinient way of using it. Thus, making marijuana legal would mean more people would simply cook it into food, making it less deadly - I'd venture to say, not deadly at all.

What about tobacco?

I'm against illegalizing that too.


You don't, but other people have.

Maybe they were just stating one of their minor reasons why they personally enjoy marijuana?


Pot impairs judgement and slows down reflexes. That's a bad thing when you're driving.

That doesn't explain why you think DUI marijuana is just as bad as DUI alcohol. The level of impairment is vastly different and the slowed reflexes is debatable.

I could go on about how much worse alcohol is for a driver but I think we're already in agreement on that front.


Good point.
Can we agree though, that these are jobs where reflexes and attentiveness can be crucial? Where being chemically impaired could result in mishap?


Of course! And I don't recommend being stoned at work anymore than I advocate drunk driving. But I do think both alcohol and marijuana should be legal to use recreationally.


For the most part (other than decreased motivation and other subtle changes) people are only impaired while high.
But that's enough, since people (as a whole) cannot be trusted to act responsibly.

I think this last bit is where we differ, then. I believe an individual not only can but must be trusted - to a degree - to act responsible. Until they fuck up.