NationStates Jolt Archive

First off, I'd like to say that my friend James was my roommate at one time, but moved out so he could move in with his girlfriend (which didn't last).

Anyways, I just found this out while reading the paper today. My friend James and I were at a bar on Feb. 19, drinking some beers, watching the Daytona 500. Well, I had a date that night, so after the race I left my friend at the bar. It turns out, he got into a fight with this other guy in the parking lot, and ended up killing him. I guess he got scared, and fled the scene. Well, he was just arrested yesterday, and charged with second degree murder (the other guy was killed with a tire iron, my friends fingerprints are on it, and his wallet is missing). The public defender wants him to plead guilty, in exchange for the reduced charge of voluntary manslaughter. The problem is, James doesn't remember the fight.

I'm really upset by this. I've known James since kindergarten (he's like a brother to me), and this doesn't seem like something he'd do. I know he was buzzed (if not drunk), but he's never been an angry drunk. I've been told that I'm going to be called as a witness, because I was there that day, and as a character witness. I really think James should get another lawyer, as his public defender seems too eager to get the case over and done with.

Does anyone have any advice for my friend? What should he do?

Did your friend actually mean to kill him?

If so...

I want him in jail.

If he didn't...

I wish you the best of luck.

Oh, and everyone, I've checked it for hidden april fools things. This looks true.

Did your friend actually mean to kill him?

If so...

I want him in jail.

If he didn't...

I wish you the best of luck.

Oh, and everyone, I've checked it for hidden april fools things. This looks true.


Like I said, he doesn't even remember the fight, so I doubt he meant to kill him.

If this is true and he doesn't remember what he did, he's well and truly fucked, and the mess is his fault.

Never get so wasted you lose your memory. It's that simple.

He should get a proper lawyer. Oh, and he should take the deal. It's pretty obvious that he's guilty.

First off, I'd like to say that my friend James was my roommate at one time, but moved out so he could move in with his girlfriend (which didn't last).

Anyways, I just found this out while reading the paper today. My friend James and I were at a bar on Feb. 19, drinking some beers, watching the Daytona 500. Well, I had a date that night, so after the race I left my friend at the bar. It turns out, he got into a fight with this other guy in the parking lot, and ended up killing him. I guess he got scared, and fled the scene. Well, he was just arrested yesterday, and charged with second degree murder (the other guy was killed with a tire iron, my friends fingerprints are on it, and his wallet is missing). The public defender wants him to plead guilty, in exchange for the reduced charge of voluntary manslaughter. The problem is, James doesn't remember the fight.

I'm really upset by this. I've known James since kindergarten (he's like a brother to me), and this doesn't seem like something he'd do. I know he was buzzed (if not drunk), but he's never been an angry drunk. I've been told that I'm going to be called as a witness, because I was there that day, and as a character witness. I really think James should get another lawyer, as his public defender seems too eager to get the case over and done with.

Does anyone have any advice for my friend? What should he do?
Try to go with a temporary insanity defense. If he can't remember what happened, that might be his best option. Unless he remembers the night clearly, in which case he should argue that he was not guilty instead.

Well, were there any witnesses on your side?

Well, were there any witnesses on your side?

I don't know, I just found out about this today. I'm hoping that I'll be able to talk to his parents today when they get back from seeing him. Maybe they'll know something that didn't make it into the paper.

Was it his tyre iron? You never know, it could have been the other guy came at him with a tyre iron and they got into a scuffle over it. Do you know whether it was only his fingerprints on it?

Was it his tyre iron? You never know, it could have been the other guy came at him with a tyre iron and they got into a scuffle over it. Do you know whether it was only his fingerprints on it?

Most of my information has come from the newspaper, with a few minutes of added info from his parents. Hopefully, I'll know more in a couple of hours.

I'm going to head to the police station. Maybe I can get the chance to talk to him myself.

Oh fuck, man.

I don't know what to say, I just really hope this turns out as well as possible for everybody involved.

Holy shit.

Try to go with a temporary insanity defense. If he can't remember what happened, that might be his best option. Unless he remembers the night clearly, in which case he should argue that he was not guilty instead.

He can't have a sudden change of heart over his memory now though....that would be fishy and possibly incriminating.

And it's not classified as insanity if you were drunk. Alcohol is viewed, in this case, as the catalyst for the murder, not a sudden fit of rage (as I assume from the description).

And I agree with the others...your friend needs a new lawyer. Or if you have to keep this one, have your friend go through all the possible outcomes with the him/her. Make sure that he understands exactly what is going on, what all of the details in his case are, so he can make an educated(ish) decision on his future.

the best thing he can do is get a "real" lawyer. one that isnt too busy to give his case the attention it deserves.

You do realize that posting this on April Fools makes me seriously doubt the validity of your post, right? The first post sounds exactly like the sort of thing that a good April Fools prankster might pull...

If, and only if I am wrong about this initial assessment, then I will come back with real ideas. :)

If he doesn't remember it, he could claim alcoholism and temporary insanity.

Easy as pie.

6 months in rehab.

A] Get LAWYER - a good one
B] keep trap shut. Forget meaning of words yes and no. In fact, forget everything except 'no coment' and '5th Ammendment'.

Someone i know was recently on the jury for a murder case, and the person got off by claiming self-defense. And if there aren't witnesses, it would be really hard to prove beyond a resonable doubt that the victim wasn't the aggressor.

If this is true and he doesn't remember what he did, he's well and truly fucked, and the mess is his fault.

Never get so wasted you lose your memory. It's that simple.
All too true, but all too seldom followed, sad to say. :(

He could have gotten into a fight with someone who was being really aggressive, and grabbed the first thing that came to hand. Could be self defense. Is it possible that his drink was spiked? It's really strange that he can't remember it at all. Try to get him a proper lawyer, one who's interested in winning this for him. Something funny about the whole thing....

Well, I'm back, and don't have good news. First off, I wasn't allowed to see my friend. Apparently, he's on suicide watch, and not allowed any visitors. I talked with James' parents for a while (they were talking with the public defender when I got there), and found out a few details. Apparently, there is a camera covering the parking lot of the bar, but it didn't capture much. Also, the lighting is pretty bad there, which didn't help. There was someone who saw James' vehicle tearing out of the parking lot, but again, that doesn't help.

The police don't know who the tire iron belonged to. I hope it was the other guys tire iron, and they can make a case for self defense. It will be difficult though, due to lack of witnesses and the fact that James can't remember the fight.

As Tweet Tweet said, being drunk isn't an allowed instance of temporary insanity (according to the public defender). James' parents don't like the public defender either (for the same reason as me), but they can't afford to hire a real attorney. I told them I would contribute what I could, and after I called my folks, they said they'd help out too (James is like a son to them).

If he doesn't remember it, he could claim alcoholism and temporary insanity.

Easy as pie.

6 months in rehab.
You sound really sure about this...killed many people in a drunken rage have you?

Oh fuck, man.

I don't know what to say, I just really hope this turns out as well as possible for everybody involved.

Holy shit.

Well I think since one guy is dead, that ain't gonna happen now.

On the bright side, it's probably better for your friend that the guy is dead instead of maimed and suing him, in addition to assault charges and things. If he did plead guilty of manslaughter, what would the sentance be?

You sound really sure about this...killed many people in a drunken rage have you?

Haven't you?

I don't know, I just found out about this today.
;)

If he was unable to make correct judgements due to alcohol, couldn't he plead innocence on the grounds of impaired judgemental ability (sorry, I'm not fluent in legalese but you know what I mean)

;)

They do put out newspapers 7 days a week/ 365 days a year, you know.

If he was unable to make correct judgements due to alcohol, couldn't he plead innocence on the grounds of impaired judgemental ability (sorry, I'm not fluent in legalese but you know what I mean)

No, alcohol isn't an acceptable reason to claim that, because he should have been in control of his intake of alcohol (according to the public defender).

They do put out newspapers 7 days a week/ 365 days a year, you know.
I do mean something else, you know :rolleyes: .

I do mean something else, you know :rolleyes: .

I know exactly what you meant.

You sound really sure about this...killed many people in a drunken rage have you?

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

No, alcohol isn't an acceptable reason to claim that, because he should have been in control of his intake of alcohol (according to the public defender).

I'm telliln' ya ... have him try the alcoholism thing. Alcoholism is recognized as a disease where the person has no control over their intake of alcohol.

I'd go with it. I'd also fire the Pub Def.

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

LOL!

If your friend started the fight, then its not good. If the other guy started it then I have no problem with killing him. The public defender should try and win though, not just cop out.

Damn, I can't emagion what you must be going through..
Get rid of that pub def..
I really would go with the self defense stuff..

Alright, here's the deal. Probably within the next day or 2, my friend will be taken off suicide watch. Realistically, he's ready to come off suicide watch now. I hope the police can find evidence that exhonorates my friend. Likely however, that will be a long process.

For all the people that have offered advice and comments, thank you. On a good note, my friend will be allowed visitors soon. On a not so good note, he's still got a tough road ahead. Luckily, he's got family and friends that love and support him. Somehow, I hope he and his family will get through this.

:eek:

Well, I'll be damned!

If your friend is as clever as you, I think he'll be fine. ;)

I think all of the advise is certainly well-intentioned; but it is the lawyer who should be trying to think of a reasonable defense. If he isn't GET A NEW ONE. Your friend could well spend years i prison, and if it was self-defense he doesn't need too.

Alright, here's the deal. Probably within the next day or 2, my friend will be taken off suicide watch. Realistically, he's ready to come off suicide watch now. I hope the police can find evidence that exhonorates my friend. Likely however, that will be a long process.

For all the people that have offered advice and comments, thank you. On a good note, my friend will be allowed visitors soon. On a not so good note, he's still got a tough road ahead. Luckily, he's got family and friends that love and support him. Somehow, I hope he and his family will get through this.

Again, I wish both you and him the very best luck there is may whatever diety you believe in smile upon you.

(If you're athiest/agnostic, just very good luck then.)

Just odd... best of luck on it though.

Important to get a timeline here as to when things happened.
How long after you left your mate James, did the fight occur? That's important in working out how much James could have had to drink. Does the bartender remember how much James was drinking? Does the bartender remember any altercation or incident that may have caused the fight? Do they remember if James was aggressive to anyone or vice versa?
These are extremely important to find out.
If James really can't remember anything of the fight, he could claim (which may well be true) that his drink had been spiked. If he'd only had a couple of drinks after you left, it wouldn't have been enough to cause memory-blank. Especially important to point out just how out of character this incident and James' memory-loss is.
If you can get proof that someone was being aggressive towards your mate, that can help the 'self-defence' claim.
Have the fingerprints tested again.
Really, when it comes to something this major, he needs to get himself a decent lawyer. A Public DA has so many cases, they're only interested in clearing them with as little fuss as possible. There's been lots of articles about how DAs pushing for redused sentences have landed innocent ppl into jail.

I actually sent this guy some ideas from my wife that I thought would help. Then I noticed this:

Alright, here's the deal.
Probably within the next day or 2, my friend will be taken off suicide watch.
Realistically, he's ready to come off suicide watch now.
I hope the police can find evidence that exhonorates my friend.
Likely however, that will be a long process.



For all the people that have offered advice and comments, thank you.
On a good note, my friend will be allowed visitors soon.
On a not so good note, he's still got a tough road ahead.
Luckily, he's got family and friends that love and support him.
Somehow, I hope he and his family will get through this.
Look on the left. :p

Does anyone have any advice for my friend? What should he do?
It doesn't matter if he is your friend. He killed someone and deserves no light treatment.

slightly off topic, but I found out the other day that a guy I was friends with in my early high school years has recently been put away for 18 months for arson, and another guy who I went to school with (but wasn't friends with) has been put away for something like 10 years for repeated drug related offences.

It doesn't matter if he is your friend. He killed someone and deserves no light treatment.
Good to see the idea of 'innocent til proven guilty' is alive and well in Ireland. Not like any Irish have ever been wrongly accused of murder now, have they?

Good to see the idea of 'innocent til proven guilty' is alive and well in Ireland. Not like any Irish have ever been wrongly accused of murder now, have they?
Why do people always pick on my nationality?

No, if the guy is innocent he should not go to jail. It just sounds to me like the OP knows that his friend killed a guy, but because he is his friend he wants to minimise his jail time.

I actually sent this guy some ideas from my wife that I thought would help. Then I noticed this:


Look on the left. :p


hahahaaaa

Thats a good one

hahahaaaa

Thats a good one

Possibly the best of the day. Except maybe NationDates. :p

Possibly the best of the day. Except maybe NationDates. :p

Oh, yes! Well done. :D

****DISCLAIMER****

im not a lawyer and im gonna give you some legal advice that might be wrong but you better look into it.


when you go to see your friend, dont talk to him about the case. dont have him tell you what happened. dont talk about that time when you and he went out beating up bums with tire irons.

you are not his lawyer. your communications with him are not "privileged". the jail can listen to what you say to him and use it against him at trial. a joke, a misleading vague statement, even the truth can ruin your friends defense.

Alright, here's the deal.

To Icheb, I give an e-cookie for not falling for it.

To Lunatic Goofballs, thanks for the legal advice, and you get an e-cookie for figuring it out from my last post.

To everyone else, I give these three things:

http://www.tackleshop.co.uk/ProductImages/kamasan-b410.jpg

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/products/images/Fishing%20Line/Trilene%20Big%20Game/Product2.jpg

http://www.mytackle.net/images/Sinkers/TorpedoRingSinker.jpg

Heh, I thought so, hence why I avoided this thread 'till the day was up. Good one, though. :D

I actually sent this guy some ideas from my wife that I thought would help. Then I noticed this:


Look on the left. :p
Ah Ha! An acrostic. kludos to LG for noticing it 1st. Well done to both parties.

Alright, here's the deal.

To Icheb, I give an e-cookie for not falling for it.

To Lunatic Goofballs, thanks for the legal advice, and you get an e-cookie for figuring it out from my last post.

To everyone else, I give these three things:

http://www.tackleshop.co.uk/ProductImages/kamasan-b410.jpg

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/products/images/Fishing%20Line/Trilene%20Big%20Game/Product2.jpg

http://www.mytackle.net/images/Sinkers/TorpedoRingSinker.jpg

And what does Ashmoria get for falling for it after it was busted?

I think it would have worked better if you'd used a genuinely implausible story as the joke. If the story's too humdrum, you don't really overcome the anonymity factor of the message board and can't really tell how far people have been 'sucked in'.

And what does Ashmoria get for falling for it after it was busted?
i get to think that he's an asshole who played a trick thats not funny

i get to think that he's an asshole who played a trick thats not funny

When you posted, the April Fools had already been busted for well over two hours. You should get an extra "award" for falling for it when it's already been busted.

When you posted, the April Fools had already been busted for well over two hours. You should get an extra "award" for falling for it when it's already been busted.
i hate to admit being stupid but i dont have a clue as to what "look to the left" means. *shrug*

since the time limit for april fools jokes generally pass by noon on april first and by any measure its over when april first passes. i gave him the benefit of the doubt

especially since a story about something bad happening to someone else that none of us know is the lamest sort of april fools joke.

i hate to admit being stupid but i dont have a clue as to what "look to the left" means. *shrug*

It wasn't that. At least three people were laughing and saying things like "good one".

since the time limit for april fools jokes generally pass by noon on april first and by any measure its over when april first passes. i gave him the benefit of the doubt

especially since a story about something bad happening to someone else that none of us know is the lamest sort of april fools joke.

The time stamp on the OP is well within the time limits. Personally, I suggest you find your sense of humor or grow a thicker hide. Either way, I'm outta here.

i hate to admit being stupid but i dont have a clue as to what "look to the left" means. *shrug*

since the time limit for april fools jokes generally pass by noon on april first and by any measure its over when april first passes. i gave him the benefit of the doubt

especially since a story about something bad happening to someone else that none of us know is the lamest sort of april fools joke.

The original post was before 12:00 Eastern Standard Time, and I left the revealing message before 8 EST.

And on a related note, I don't know anyone by the name of James, either. :D

The original post was before 12:00 Eastern Standard Time, and I left the revealing message before 8 EST.

And on a related note, I don't know anyone by the name of James, either. :D
i bow before your incredible intelligence in catching me in this wonderfully done aprils fools joke. i feel appropriately stupid for giving advice to someone in need. your mastery of the form leaves me awestruck

now how about you realize that its your duty as a person pulling a prank that it be revealed before the days end?

i bow before your incredible intelligence in catching me in this wonderfully done aprils fools joke. i feel appropriately stupid for giving advice to someone in need. your mastery of the form leaves me awestruck

now how about you realize that its your duty as a person pulling a prank that it be revealed before the days end?

I did. It was posted before 8PM. I even "spelled" it out for you. :D

I did. It was posted before 8PM. I even "spelled" it out for you. :D
then i am going to have to stop being sarcastic and admit that you got me at 8 pm last night because i still have no idea how that spelled it out even though obviously (from their posts) other people did.

congratulations.

then i am going to have to stop being sarcastic and admit that you got me at 8 pm last night because i still have no idea how that spelled it out even though obviously (from their posts) other people did.

congratulations.

Here's how he did it:

Alright, here's the deal.
Probably within the next day or 2, my friend will be taken off suicide watch.
Realistically, he's ready to come off suicide watch now.
I hope the police can find evidence that exhonorates my friend.
Likely however, that will be a long process.

For all the people that have offered advice and comments, thank you.
On a good note, my friend will be allowed visitors soon.
On a not so good note, he's still got a tough road ahead.
Luckily, he's got family and friends that love and support him.
Somehow, I hope he and his family will get through this.

Here's how he did it:
thank you!

Alright, here's the deal.

To Icheb, I give an e-cookie for not falling for it.

To Lunatic Goofballs, thanks for the legal advice, and you get an e-cookie for figuring it out from my last post.

To everyone else, I give these three things:

http://www.tackleshop.co.uk/ProductImages/kamasan-b410.jpg

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/products/images/Fishing%20Line/Trilene%20Big%20Game/Product2.jpg

http://www.mytackle.net/images/Sinkers/TorpedoRingSinker.jpg


You do realize that posting this on April Fools makes me seriously doubt the validity of your post, right? The first post sounds exactly like the sort of thing that a good April Fools prankster might pull...

If, and only if I am wrong about this initial assessment, then I will come back with real ideas. :)

Icheb wasn't the only person who didn't fall for it. :)

I know exactly what you meant.
Then I don't understand your miserably failed attempt at a witty answer :rolleyes: .

Then I don't understand your miserably failed attempt at a witty answer :rolleyes: .

I don't think it was meant to be witty. I think it was meant to be evasive. :)

thank you!

In hindsight, I suppose I could've bolded the first letters too.

It sincerely didn't occur to me. I thought merely adding the carriage returns would be enough to reveal the message.

I wasn't tryng to keep anyone in the dark. :p

You know Gun, If you really wanted to get people all bothered about it, you should have had your bud Cap a tire-iron weilding guy. You know how much people around here like guns & self defense. :rolleyes:

You know Gun, If you really wanted to get people all bothered about it, you should have had your bud Cap a tire-iron weilding guy. You know how much people around here like guns & self defense. :rolleyes:

Maybe we can ban tire irons. :D

Maybe we can ban tire irons. :D
I had someone try to attack me with one once... He stopped when I pointed a .45 at him. He went away and I went away.

No violence done. Score one for the Gun Guys. ;)

Icheb wasn't the only person who didn't fall for it. :)

Doh, I missed that. All right, and e-cookie for you too. :)


Then I don't understand your miserably failed attempt at a witty answer :rolleyes: .

As LG said, I was being evasive.

I had someone try to attack me with one once... He stopped when I pointed a .45 at him. He went away and I went away.

No violence done. Score one for the Gun Guys. ;)

HeHe. Joe Halderman (the SF writer) once wrote a very funny story that ended in a similar fashion.

Doh, I missed that. All right, and e-cookie for you too. :)




As LG said, I was being evasive.

*gratefully accepts and eats the e-cookie*