NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: Although once in a great while, they may come out with a halfway decent movie ( though that seems to be happening with less and less frequency ), there is virtually nothing I like about Hollyweird. Sometimes this has been a bit difficult for me to articlate, since it's more a feeling than anything else. Then along comes Ben Stein, who says it so much better than I probably ever could:


Missed Tributes (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9495)


By Ben Stein
Published 3/6/2006 2:08:21 AM
Now for a few humble thoughts about the Oscars.

I did not see every second of it, but my wife did, and she joins me in noting that there was not one word of tribute, not one breath, to our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan or to their families or their widows or orphans. There were pitifully dishonest calls for peace -- as if the people we are fighting were interested in any peace for us but the peace of the grave. But not one word for the hundreds of thousands who have served and are serving, not one prayer or moment of silence for the dead and maimed.

Basically, the sad truth is that Hollywood does not think of itself as part of America, and so, to Hollywood, the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else. It does not concern them except insofar as it offers occasion to mock or criticize George Bush. They live in dreamland and cannot be gracious enough to thank the men and women who pay with their lives for the stars' ability to live in dreamland. This is shameful.

The idea that it is brave to stand up for gays in Hollywood, to stand up against Joe McCarthy in Hollywood (fifty years after his death), to say that rich white people are bad, that oil companies are evil -- this is nonsense. All of these are mainstream ideas in Hollywood, always have been, always will be. For the people who made movies denouncing Big Oil, worshiping gays, mocking the rich to think of themselves as brave -- this is pathetic, childish narcissism.

The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal. The courageous writer in Hollywood will be the one who says the oil companies do their best in a very hostile world to bring us energy cheaply and efficiently and with a minimum of corruption. The producer who really has guts will be the one who says that Wall Street, despite its flaws, has done the best job of democratizing wealth ever in the history of mankind.

No doubt the men and women who came to the Oscars in gowns that cost more than an Army Sergeant makes in a year, in limousines with champagne in the back seat, think they are working class heroes to attack America -- which has made it all possible for them. They are not. They would be heroes if they said that Moslem extremists are the worst threat to human decency since Hitler and Stalin. But someone might yell at them or even attack them with a knife if they said that, so they never will.

Hollywood is above all about self: self-congratulation, self-promotion, and above all, self-protection. This is human and basic, but let's not kid ourselves. There is no greatness there in the Kodak theater. The greatness is on patrol in Kirkuk. The greatness lies unable to sleep worrying about her man in Mosul. The greatness sleeps at Arlington National Cemetery and lies waiting for death in VA Hospitals. God help us that we have sunk so low as to confuse foolish and petty boasting with the real courage that keeps this nation and the many fools in it alive and flourishing on national TV.


Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He also writes "Ben Stein's Diary" in every issue of The American Spectator. Please click here to subscribe.

i hate india too.

i hate india too.
the mind boggles :rolleyes:

ive always been a fan of Ben Stein...

ive always been a fan of Ben Stein...
As far as I can tell, he's a pretty bright guy.

As far as I can tell, he's a pretty bright guy.

very intelligent. remember the show Win Ben Stein's Money?

Its so true about Hollywood. Though people don't want to focus on it anyways...its iffy material.

I thought "Jarhead" was Hollywood's patriotic movie.

Basically, the sad truth is that Hollywood does not think of itself as part of America, and so, to Hollywood, the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else.
Too bad no one knows where the fuck the wars to save freedom from Christian fundamentalism and from self-righteous, American jingoism are taking place.

Ben Stein was a speech writer for Washington and it is showing.

:rolleyes: Woot for warmongering, xenophobic nonsense.

We treat gays equally... Uhuh... Suuuuuure :rolleyes:

This guy is spewing trash. The military does not need to be worshiped any more than it already is. It deserves funding, it deserves to provide things like care for injured soldiers, pension for retired soldiers, and to have the ability to do it's best by every person who walks in it's doors (and it isn't yet). That does not mean that it's important to get down on our knees and pray to the army five times a day. Moreso, it is more support to every single soldier to fight to get them out of a war where they are being misused for a false pretense, than it is to offer fake worship to them.

Hollywood is fucked up, but not because it is liberal. Hollywood is fucked up because it is all about what you say and not about what you do. It is (like the blocks around the "center" of Hollywood) gilded, and full of lies to hide it's flaws and failings. It is image obsessive. It is exorbidantly rich and full of pretentions about great art (it's a pity it never produces any). It's liberalism is faux-liberalism that's all about pose and not about meaning what you say. However, it should not be criticised for being left wing in any way.

I think that the biggest problem in Hollywood is that its brain trust is so horribly out of step with what it’s capable of creating. Hollywood executives generally pollute any set that they visit and are generally Billy-Bobs unemployable cousin anyways (if you wonder about strange characters that ruined the film or crappy subplots, probably one of these losers put them there).

They’re too concerned with being a parasite of the cult of media personalities and rarely do much to develop serious acting talent. When you are vetting a lead for a movie, the fist thing you look for is a biggest name actor. If that doesn’t work you just scrape whatever celebrity name you can off the bottom of the barrel, no matter if they can act or not (see Paris Hilton). If that doesn’t work then you’re in big trouble because now you have to actually resort to finding someone who’s a good actor (you’d think that would be your first choice but it’s not the way things are done).

Like everything else in society, Hollywood tends to dumb everything down to keep from alienating stupid people (apparently there are a lot of stupid people who go to movies and they want every cent they have). It’s one of the reasons that special effects is always more important than story. If you can sell a script with mindless violence, lots of special effects, a good chase scene, and a role for a scantily clad love interest then you’re a made man (man I hate Peter Jackson).

A few points Eutrusca:

I'm gay yet am a proud right-winger.

I don't see why gay rights have to be equated with the idiots who make up hollywood, though not all in hollywood are idiots.

A useful point to make is that the far-left are janus face. They claimed to be in favour of gay rights yet support Islamist movements like Hamas and AQ.

Hamas made a statement this month calling for a new law in Palestine to execute, via hanging, all homosexuals and bisexual people.

The far-left support Castro, the Cuban tyrant, to the hilt yet Cuba has special concentration camps for homosexuals, yet make a public comparison of that to Nazi Germany and they call you a puppet of Batista, despite the fact that Batsita cannot regain control of Cuba, given the fact that he has been dead since 1971.

The far-left are delusional, in a very literal sense, for they cannot see the double standards that they apply.

Capitalist systems are the most gay friendly societies we have known since the ancient times (prior to the rise of religions like Judaism/Christianity and Islam, all of them barbaric and bigoted in their views).

Gays flourish under capitalism as well, most of them. For they have an economic advantage over the rest in that we don't spend money on children and wives.

The average cost of a child over 18 years in my country, Britain, is £169,000 or about $350,000.

Yes Hollywood is too 'liberal' and more correctly far-left, for liberalism is nothing like what the so-called liberals stand for.

Most gays actually hold right-wing views, the ones I've meet anyways.

Ben Steins movie ideas suck. They'd be major bombs. Hollywood wants to make money.

Ben Stein may be pretty smart, but he's a total jerk. I mean seriously.

And strangely, the Right's criticism and contempt for Hollywood peters down when it comes to The Great Communicator Ronald Reagan, Conan the Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ben Stein.

What does an awards ceremony got to do with honouring the military? Do they have to or something?

"...there was not one word of tribute, not one breath, to our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan or to their families or their widows or orphans."

So? Not every second of every of every day has to be focused on the military. Get over it. Hollywood is supposed to take out minds OFF of our troubles. The Oscars are fluff. Nothing more.

"The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal."

No, that would be the stupid guy. Gays are denied the basic human right of marrage, they can't join the military if they are out of the closet, in many states (including mine) you can still refuse to hire someone or you can fire them because they are gay, and you can deny them an apartment. That is hardly equal!

.

"...there was not one word of tribute, not one breath, to our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan or to their families or their widows or orphans."

So? Not every second of every of every day has to be focused on the military. Get over it. Hollywood is supposed to take out minds OFF of our troubles. The Oscars are fluff. Nothing more.

"The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal."

No, that would be the stupid guy. Gays are denied the basic human right of marrage, they can't join the military if they are out of the closet, in many states (including mine) you can still refuse to hire someone or you can fire them because they are gay, and you can deny them an apartment. That is hardly equal!

.

*claps*

Yep. Damn liberal Hollywood. Full of its "Rules of Engagement", "Windtalkers", "Pearl Harbor" and so on and so forth.

They hate America, that's what it is.

Most gays actually hold right-wing views, the ones I've meet anyways.

ROTFLMAO!!!

What does an awards ceremony got to do with honouring the military? Do they have to or something?
YES

all good americans praise the military 5 times a day. to not mention at every possible opportunity what a great job they are doing means you dont support the troops.

i was at the store the other day buying a masonry chisel and when the clerk praised the advantages of a certain brand i told him that it doesnt do as good a job as our troops in iraq do!

i hate india too.
No that is Moombiwood.

ROTFLMAO!!!

You may get a big laugh out of that, but I was just depressed and utterly frustrated by it. :p

YES

all good americans praise the military 5 times a day. to not mention at every possible opportunity what a great job they are doing means you dont support the troops.

i was at the store the other day buying a masonry chisel and when the clerk praised the advantages of a certain brand i told him that it doesnt do as good a job as our troops in iraq do!
LOL. Now that is what I call sarcasm.

But it does illustrate an important point. What do those people want exactly, a cookie? A daily act of worship? A prayer before dinner and a few words of appreciation even from the atheists around the table? :rolleyes:

They can get bent. One does not idolise the military. It is an unpleasant entity, the very existence of which is a sad comment on our social flaws.

You may get a big laugh out of that, but I was just depressed and utterly frustrated by it. :p

*lol* I guess it goes to show that even gay people can delude themselves.

I've been out for almost twenty years now and have come across *very* few conservative gay folk. And I live in right wing central. There are a few Log Cabin Republicans out there, but they are few and far between.

.

I just wish Windtalkers and Pearl Harbour weren’t among the worse war movies ever made. I liked Jarhead though. http://67.18.37.14/32/176/emo/soldier.gif

*lol* I guess it goes to show that even gay people can delude themselves.

I've been out for almost twenty years now and have come across *very* few conservative gay folk. And I live in right wing central. There are a few Log Cabin Republicans out there, but they are few and far between.

.

Ugh, tell me about it. The satellite towns of Houston are hotbeds for Fascism. Just last year, my town had a New Aryan KKK rally near city hall. And, from what I hear, there were plenty of supporters and very, very few protestors.

They want to bring the boys back home.-Isn't that enough support?

I just wish Windtalkers and Pearl Harbour weren’t among the worse war movies ever made. I liked Jarhead though. http://67.18.37.14/32/176/emo/soldier.gif
But Jarhead could on some level almost be construed to be anti-American. Afterall, none of the soldiers was an awesome, superhuman hero killing a thousand Iraqis while saving white baby kittens.

*lol* I guess it goes to show that even gay people can delude themselves.

History proves that individual members of an oppressed group will sell others of their own kind out for self-preservation and materiel power.

History proves that individual members of an oppressed group will sell others of their own kind out for self-preservation and materiel power.

That's true. Sad, but true.

They don't mean that you have to worship the military, but you should respect them. It's as simple as that. And besides, Jarhead came out in, what, 2003? Windtalkers came out in 2000, or 1999? Also, a military is not a "sad social comment" as whoever said that thinks. If your country has a strong military, your country should be commended. Me, personnaly, I would love a world where we wouldn't need militaries. That would be great. A world where nobody is hungry, nobody is unemployed, everybody ahs a house. Unfortuneately, that world doesn't exist, nor will it exist in the near future.
BTW, Windtalkers was a great movie. It is probably the best action movie I've seen.

They don't mean that you have to worship the military, but you should respect them. It's as simple as that. And besides, Jarhead came out in, what, 2003? Windtalkers came out in 2000, or 1999? Also, a military is not a "sad social comment" as whoever said that thinks. If your country has a strong military, your country should be commended. Me, personnaly, I would love a world where we wouldn't need militaries. That would be great. A world where nobody is hungry, nobody is unemployed, everybody ahs a house. Unfortuneately, that world doesn't exist, nor will it exist in the near future.
BTW, Windtalkers was a great movie. It is probably the best action movie I've seen.

Uh, Jarhead was pretty recent.

Uh, Jarhead was pretty recent.
October of last year.

Jarhead was like 5 months ago...

BTW, Windtalkers was a great movie. It is probably the best action movie I've seen.
It's also shameless propaganda, and the content was dictated by the Pentagon.

http://www.newsmine.org/archive/propoganda/brainwash/windtalkers-censored.txt

Anyways New Zealand was using Maori in its coded Messages during World War Two.:D

Too bad no one knows where the fuck the wars to save freedom from Christian fundamentalism and from self-righteous, American jingoism are taking place.

Ben Stein was a speech writer for Washington and it is showing.
Not just Washington--Stein was a speechwriter for Nixon, and is a Nixon defender to this day, so it's no surprise to me to hear him talking smack like this.

I did not see every second of it, but my wife did, and she joins me in noting that there was not one word of tribute, not one breath, to our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan or to their families or their widows or orphans.

There were also no tributes to police officers, firefighters, teachers, doctors, nurses, people who volunteer at soup kitchens, or, in fact, pretty much anyone who has no involvement whatsoever in making movies. How strange, that in an event specifically designed to honor people involved in the production of movies, they only honored people involved in the production of movies. Those bastards!

The idea that it is brave to stand up for gays in Hollywood, to stand up against Joe McCarthy in Hollywood (fifty years after his death)...

Yes, I can't imagine why anyone would want to point out the problems with McCarthy-esque thinking now. Clearly, this is totally irrelevant to modern politics, in which people who don't interrupt non-political events with war rallies are promptly branded un-American cowards. Yup. Totally irrelevant.

The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal. The courageous writer in Hollywood will be the one who says the oil companies do their best in a very hostile world to bring us energy cheaply and efficiently and with a minimum of corruption. The producer who really has guts will be the one who says that Wall Street, despite its flaws, has done the best job of democratizing wealth ever in the history of mankind.

This would be "brave" in precisely the same sense that shooting oneself in the ass would be brave. It takes a certain amount of guts, true, but it doesn't exactly accomplish much except making you look like an idiot. It would also make for some excruciatingly boring movies. :p

It's also shameless propaganda, and the content was dictated by the Pentagon.
So? Most movies are progandising for someone. The Spiderman movies, for instance, use ridiculous charicatures to oversimplify complex social and ethical issues that surround criminal justice and the limits modern science. V for Vendetta portrayed all men working with the government (with the exception of two detectives) as evil and soulless morons who were overtaken by the super-powered, always right anarchists. Sports movies always have a good team and a bad team, with the bad team representing some social group (generally the wealthy, but the Russians still show up now and again for some retro-Cold War era fun) and the good team representing another.
Something I've never understood, why is it that war movies are "propaganda" when they follow the same plot set-up as every other "Small group overcomes great adversity, defeats demonized bad guys, and saves universe"-style movie?

COMMENTARY: Although once in a great while, they may come out with a halfway decent movie ( though that seems to be happening with less and less frequency

This past year was uncharactaristically good, movie-wise.

Capote and Munich were both excellent, Syriana and others were good too.

He omitted another reason. The wealthy actors who have the ear of the public and proceed to spew political and scientific misinformation into that receptive and unquestioning ear. These frequently appallingly ignorant celebrities who push legislation that we, the already overburdened middle-income taxpayers, and not they, must pay for.

*snip*
...the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else. It does not concern them except insofar as it offers occasion to mock or criticize George Bush. They live in dreamland and cannot be gracious enough to thank the men and women who pay with their lives for the stars' ability to live in dreamland... etc.
*snip*

The whole thing made me snicker. He was funny, though I doubt intentionally. :)

the main problem with 'hollyfeetstuckinthecley' is that it ISN'T 'wierd' enough! not by any even remotest stretch of it.

story telling does indeed subconscously influence people's priorities and that in turn influences everything else. so story telling does have a responsibility to the kind of world we all have to live in.

by being narrowly cleche ridden, generaly in persuit of little green pieces of paper, it influences people to loose touch with reality's unimmagined and underappreciated diversity.

=^^=
.../\...

That article was the biggest load of shit I've read in a long time. Most of what he said was either completely irrelevant or untrue. What a wanker.

That article was the biggest load of shit I've read in a long time. Most of what he said was either completely irrelevant or untrue. What a wanker.

Welcome to a Eutrascan article thread. You've never been before?

Missed Tributes (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9495)


By Ben Stein
Published 3/6/2006 2:08:21 AM
Now for a few humble thoughts about the Oscars.

snip
So what it basically comes down to, is that because they saying things he disagrees with and not saying the things he wants, they're unAmerican.





How delightfully unAmerican of him.

Welcome to a Eutrascan article thread. You've never been before?

Yeah, I've read them before (bikies at military funerals, etc). This one just stood out as truly the worst.

COMMENTARY: Although once in a great while, they may come out with a halfway decent movie ( though that seems to be happening with less and less frequency ), there is virtually nothing I like about Hollyweird. Sometimes this has been a bit difficult for me to articlate, since it's more a feeling than anything else. Then along comes Ben Stein, who says it so much better than I probably ever could:


Missed Tributes (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9495)




Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He also writes "Ben Stein's Diary" in every issue of The American Spectator. Please click here to subscribe.

So you hate Hollywood because you're a crotchety old crank who likes to poison his soul with with the venemous spew of double-talking Hollywood celebrities who try to distinguish themselves by trying to rally the Republican flag, even when it means things like blaming the Cambodian genocide, not on Nixon's crimes, but on the people who made his crimes known and had him punished for them.

I'll bet you tell people that you never really got Dennis Miller until the last couple of years, when his work has really matured.

So you hate Hollywood because you're a crotchety old crank who likes to poison his soul with with the venemous spew of double-talking Hollywood celebrities who try to distinguish themselves by trying to rally the Republican flag, even when it means things like blaming the Cambodian genocide, not on Nixon's crimes, but on the people who made his crimes known and had him punished for them.

I'll bet you tell people that you never really got Dennis Miller until the last couple of years, when his work has really matured.
Ooooo. That's cold. :p

This would be "brave" in precisely the same sense that shooting oneself in the ass would be brave. It takes a certain amount of guts, true, but it doesn't exactly accomplish much except making you look like an idiot. It would also make for some excruciatingly boring movies. :p

You've heard Ben Stein speak, right? He probably doesn't realize that the reason people quote "Bueller... Bueller... Bueller..." to this day is because he captures so completly what it means to be a boring school teacher. He understands entertainment in a way that only a Nixon speech writer can. He thinks it consists of taking something that's untrue and making people believe it by surrounding it with a bunch of almost true things. Like making people think that Nixon was a good president who deserved to stay in office because bad things happened after he left that wouldn't have otherwise, and "what was it he did that was so bad again? oh, yeah... He lied."

Or right here where he said that a function whose only purpose is to honor movie makers pretty much stuck to honoring movie makers, and acting like that's a crime.

Quite the baised article when presenting it's opinions.

But then again, that's so obvious, that I can't really complain. This looks more like an essay than an article though.

very intelligent. remember the show Win Ben Stein's Money?
Yes. And as I recall, even when you won, you didn't win much! :D

I thought "Jarhead" was Hollywood's patriotic movie.
Jarhead sucked. :headbang:

Too bad no one knows where the fuck the wars to save freedom from Christian fundamentalism and from self-righteous, American jingoism are taking place.

Ben Stein was a speech writer for Washington and it is showing.
So he's lying when he says those things? :confused:

Hollywood is fucked up because it is all about what you say and not about what you do. It is (like the blocks around the "center" of Hollywood) gilded, and full of lies to hide it's flaws and failings. It is image obsessive. It is exorbidantly rich and full of pretentions about great art (it's a pity it never produces any). It's liberalism is faux-liberalism that's all about pose and not about meaning what you say.
I agree with this.


However, it should not be criticised for being left wing in any way.
But definitely not this! Why can we not criticise Hollyweird for virtually anything?

A few points Eutrusca:

I'm gay yet am a proud right-winger.

I don't see why gay rights have to be equated with the idiots who make up hollywood, though not all in hollywood are idiots.

A useful point to make is that the far-left are janus face. They claimed to be in favour of gay rights yet support Islamist movements like Hamas and AQ.

Hamas made a statement this month calling for a new law in Palestine to execute, via hanging, all homosexuals and bisexual people.

The far-left support Castro, the Cuban tyrant, to the hilt yet Cuba has special concentration camps for homosexuals, yet make a public comparison of that to Nazi Germany and they call you a puppet of Batista, despite the fact that Batsita cannot regain control of Cuba, given the fact that he has been dead since 1971.

The far-left are delusional, in a very literal sense, for they cannot see the double standards that they apply.

Capitalist systems are the most gay friendly societies we have known since the ancient times (prior to the rise of religions like Judaism/Christianity and Islam, all of them barbaric and bigoted in their views).

Gays flourish under capitalism as well, most of them. For they have an economic advantage over the rest in that we don't spend money on children and wives.

The average cost of a child over 18 years in my country, Britain, is £169,000 or about $350,000.

Yes Hollywood is too 'liberal' and more correctly far-left, for liberalism is nothing like what the so-called liberals stand for.

Most gays actually hold right-wing views, the ones I've meet anyways.
As you may have expected, I agree with everything you have said here. Good post. Thank you! :)

And strangely, the Right's criticism and contempt for Hollywood peters down when it comes to The Great Communicator Ronald Reagan, Conan the Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ben Stein.
There are, after all, exceptions to every rule. :p

COMMENTARY: Although once in a great while, they may come out with a halfway decent movie ( though that seems to be happening with less and less frequency ), there is virtually nothing I like about Hollyweird. Sometimes this has been a bit difficult for me to articlate, since it's more a feeling than anything else. Then along comes Ben Stein, who says it so much better than I probably ever could:
Eutrusca.....boldly changing the definition of "centrist" on a daily basis.

Why do you hate America? :p

Oil companies ARE evil.

Let's face it, they're doing their best to keep us on an oil economy despite the fact that it funds the Islamist terrorism that we're fighting, and despite the fact that oil is in limited supply, highly polluting, and soon will become so expensive as to become a drag on our economy. Of course from the oil company's point of view none of that matters. They're looking foreward to high oil prices in order to make high profits. Meanwhile, their lackeys in Washington are being convinced not to fund different energy technologies like nuclear, solar, and wind, which together might reduce our dependence on oil dramatically.

"...there was not one word of tribute, not one breath, to our fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan or to their families or their widows or orphans."

So? Not every second of every of every day has to be focused on the military. Get over it. Hollywood is supposed to take out minds OFF of our troubles. The Oscars are fluff. Nothing more.

"The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal."

No, that would be the stupid guy. Gays are denied the basic human right of marrage, they can't join the military if they are out of the closet, in many states (including mine) you can still refuse to hire someone or you can fire them because they are gay, and you can deny them an apartment. That is hardly equal!
I agree. That's one of the primary reasons I have real problems with the far right. The obvious solution is to work to get officials elected who recognize that people are just people, whether they're gay or straight or religious or atheistic or one "race" or another.

YES

all good americans praise the military 5 times a day. to not mention at every possible opportunity what a great job they are doing means you dont support the troops.

i was at the store the other day buying a masonry chisel and when the clerk praised the advantages of a certain brand i told him that it doesnt do as good a job as our troops in iraq do!
Very funny. Verily my body is wracked with hysterical laughter. Ha. Ha. It is to laugh. :rolleyes:

LOL. Now that is what I call sarcasm.

But it does illustrate an important point. What do those people want exactly, a cookie? A daily act of worship? A prayer before dinner and a few words of appreciation even from the atheists around the table? :rolleyes:

They can get bent. One does not idolise the military. It is an unpleasant entity, the very existence of which is a sad comment on our social flaws.
All of which completely misses the point. :rolleyes:

History proves that individual members of an oppressed group will sell others of their own kind out for self-preservation and materiel power.
Thinly veiled ad hominem attack. How utterly ... duplicious of you. But then, I've come to expect that sort of thing from you. :rolleyes:

Very funny. Verily my body is wracked with hysterical laughter. Ha. Ha. It is to laugh. :rolleyes:
You ought to be lauging--that post is a damn sight funnier than anything Stein's done in the last five years.

COMMENTARY: Although once in a great while, they may come out with a halfway decent movie ( though that seems to be happening with less and less frequency ), there is virtually nothing I like about Hollyweird. Sometimes this has been a bit difficult for me to articlate, since it's more a feeling than anything else. Then along comes Ben Stein, who says it so much better than I probably ever could:




Wow, me and Eut agree fully on a topic. ;)
That, and Ben Stein is a bloody genius. I want his money!

Not just Washington--Stein was a speechwriter for Nixon, and is a Nixon defender to this day, so it's no surprise to me to hear him talking smack like this.
And your proof of this would be???

Very funny. Verily my body is wracked with hysterical laughter. Ha. Ha. It is to laugh. :rolleyes:
no really, it was funny

its funny enough that i giggle reading it when im the one who wrote it.

loosen up. if you cant laugh at your own side you dont have a sense of humor.

This past year was uncharactaristically good, movie-wise.

Capote and Munich were both excellent, Syriana and others were good too.
"Good" is a highly subjective word.

He omitted another reason. The wealthy actors who have the ear of the public and proceed to spew political and scientific misinformation into that receptive and unquestioning ear. These frequently appallingly ignorant celebrities who push legislation that we, the already overburdened middle-income taxpayers, and not they, must pay for.
Exactly. "Let's pay for all the things we mindlessly conclude America needs with someone else's money." Sigh.

The whole thing made me snicker. He was funny, though I doubt intentionally. :)
You are far too easily amused. :rolleyes:

And your proof of this would be???
Here's something to get you started (http://www.spectator.org/util/print.asp?art_id=8242). When Mark Felt came out as Deep Throat, Stein not only excoriated him as a traitor to Nixon (and by extension, the country), but also blamed him for the Cambodian genocide. Nice guy, that Stein.

That article was the biggest load of shit I've read in a long time. Most of what he said was either completely irrelevant or untrue. What a wanker.
Nice rant. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I've read them before (bikies at military funerals, etc). This one just stood out as truly the worst.
Then don't post in it. ( shrug )

All of which completely misses the point. :rolleyes:
No it does not. It directly addresses it.

The author of the piece whines about how the Oscars were so lavish but not one word was said about the military, as if the ceremony had anything to do with them in the first place. And my reaction to this is, what bullshit. What do Hollywood awards evenings got to do with them? Why do people expect the soldiers to get cookies every time the media is present.

So no, I didn't miss the point at all. I looked at what the author wrote and found it to be a load of pompous sentimental crap.

You ought to be lauging--that post is a damn sight funnier than anything Stein's done in the last five years.
If I had to listen to anything you might consider "funny," I would probably just kill myself and be done with it.

Wow, me and Eut agree fully on a topic. ;)
That, and Ben Stein is a bloody genius. I want his money!
Kewl! Not to mention amazing! :D

Nice rant. :rolleyes:

I think Tactical Grace has pretty much summed it up perfectly.

no really, it was funny

its funny enough that i giggle reading it when im the one who wrote it.

loosen up. if you cant laugh at your own side you dont have a sense of humor.
Uh ... perhaps that would be because I don't have a "side." :p

@ Eutrusca

Two words

Lighten up!

Here's something to get you started (http://www.spectator.org/util/print.asp?art_id=8242). When Mark Felt came out as Deep Throat, Stein not only excoriated him as a traitor to Nixon (and by extension, the country), but also blamed him for the Cambodian genocide. Nice guy, that Stein.
Interesting. All that proves is that Ben Stein is just as human and prone to error as the rest of us. And your point?

No it does not. It directly addresses it.

The author of the piece whines about how the Oscars were so lavish but not one word was said about the military, as if the ceremony had anything to do with them in the first place. And my reaction to this is, what bullshit. What do Hollywood awards evenings got to do with them? Why do people expect the soldiers to get cookies every time the media is present.

So no, I didn't miss the point at all. I looked at what the author wrote and found it to be a load of pompous sentimental crap.
LOL! Ohh-kayy. So you didn't "get" that it was a comparison for argument's sake and a bit hyperbolic. Tsk! :p

I think Tactical Grace has pretty much summed it up perfectly.
You would. :rolleyes:

@ Eutrusca

Two words

Lighten up!
No thank you. I'm on a roll. :p

You would. :rolleyes:

Yep, I do.

Uh ... perhaps that would be because I don't have a "side." :p
if you didnt have a side, you would have found it at least midly amusing.

So he's lying when he says those things? :confused:
He's not lieing, he is being the self-righteous smug asshole that can only be achieved by being a presidential speech writer and then becoming an actor. He is villainizing Hollywood by twisting images and trying to enflame the military. If you want to attack Hollywood, you can do it much better, and I know he is smart enough to do that - but he isn't. He is purposefully only doing this to enflame the military and stir up anti-Hollywood, pro-military sentiment. I would bet my eternal soul he was paid by Bush to do this, or otherwise influenced by him to.

Uh ... perhaps that would be because I don't have a "side."
You are only fooling yourself every time you say that.

Interesting. All that proves is that Ben Stein is just as human and prone to error as the rest of us. And your point?
Here's my point. There are, in my opinion, two undefendable US politicians from the last fifty years, two men who took out the Constitution and shat on it repeatedly, who argued that as President, they were as powerful as any emperor of ancient times. Those two are Richard Milhous Nixon and George Walker Bush.

No matter what else they accomplished, their legacies are tarnished to an unredeemable level because of their desire to retain personal power at the cost of the basis of US government. Anyone who defends those men, as a result, is guilty by association in my eyes.

COMMENTARY:Basically, the sad truth is that Hollywood does not think of itself as part of America, and so, to Hollywood, the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else. It does not concern them except insofar as it offers occasion to mock or criticize George Bush. They live in dreamland and cannot be gracious enough to thank the men and women who pay with their lives for the stars' ability to live in dreamland. This is shameful.
Yes Hollywood lives in a fantasy world in which they are the savoirs of humanity and that their jobs are important. (which they're not) But they are really alone in this blissful ideal. Bush also thinks he's our savior and can't see when he's wrong, or won't. His job is important, and I can't tell what is worse. A person who's incopetant having power, or a moronic person who has no power but for some reason half of the country thinks they do.

I think Tactical Grace has pretty much summed it up perfectly.
Brownoser. :D

COMMENTARY:

Missed Tributes (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9495)


By Ben Stein
Published 3/6/2006 2:08:21 AM
Now for a few humble thoughts about the Oscars.



Basically, the sad truth is that Hollywood does not think of itself as part of America, and so, to Hollywood, the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else. It does not concern them except insofar as it offers occasion to mock or criticize George Bush. They live in dreamland and cannot be gracious enough to thank the men and women who pay with their lives for the stars' ability to live in dreamland. This is shameful.


*sniff....'They just hate FREEDOM'.

What a load of delusional bollocks. A war to secure a fucking country they've no business being in, in the fucking first place. How, pray tell, are Osama and his few other bananas in pyjamas a threat to a nation of 295 million? Spare me the hyperbole.


The idea that it is brave to stand up for gays in Hollywood, to stand up against Joe McCarthy in Hollywood (fifty years after his death), to say that rich white people are bad, that oil companies are evil -- this is nonsense. All of these are mainstream ideas in Hollywood, always have been, always will be. For the people who made movies denouncing Big Oil, worshiping gays, mocking the rich to think of themselves as brave -- this is pathetic, childish narcissism.

The vast majority of movies that come out of "Hollywood" are mainstream pap with any trace of content beaten out of them, less they fail to get another ass on a seat. The fact that a few smaller movies have had the gonads to actually have some fucking content for the first time in years should be lauded. But presumably a right wing crank like this would rather we had a big screen version of "Falcon Crest". And since when have big studios been pumping out movies that 'worship gays'?


The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal.
.

Only brave if he says it in a room full of blacks or gays. Or black gays, for that matter.


The courageous writer in Hollywood will be the one who says the oil companies do their best in a very hostile world to bring us energy cheaply and efficiently and with a minimum of corruption. The producer who really has guts will be the one who says that Wall Street, despite its flaws, has done the best job of democratizing wealth ever in the history of mankind..

Thats just trolling for attention that is.....


They would be heroes if they said that Moslem extremists are the worst threat to human decency since Hitler and Stalin. ..

Thats that hyperbole thing again.


Hollywood is above all about self: self-congratulation, self-promotion, and above all, self-protection. ..

True. And as American as mom, apple pie, and mouthing inanities about freedom while sponsoring coups and death squads.


[I][CENTER]Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. ..

Beverly Hills..isn't that where the "freedom haters" dwell?

if you didnt have a side, you would have found it at least midly amusing.
And you know I didn't ... how?

Brownoser. :D
You would know. :D

You are only fooling yourself every time you say that.
And you, after all, know me soooo well! :rolleyes:

Yes Hollywood lives in a fantasy world in which they are the savoirs of humanity and that their jobs are important. (which they're not) But they are really alone in this blissful ideal. Bush also thinks he's our savior and can't see when he's wrong, or won't. His job is important, and I can't tell what is worse. A person who's incopetant having power, or a moronic person who has no power but for some reason half of the country thinks they do.
Please do not put me in the position of defending GW Bush, for I will not do so. :p

The brave guy in Hollywood will be the one who says that this is a fabulously great country where we treat gays, blacks, and everyone else as equal. The courageous writer in Hollywood will be the one who says the oil companies do their best in a very hostile world to bring us energy cheaply and efficiently and with a minimum of corruption.

They would not be courageous; they would be dishonest.

The producer who really has guts will be the one who says that Wall Street, despite its flaws, has done the best job of democratizing wealth ever in the history of mankind.

Dishonesty strikes again. I will never be convinced that Hollywood is a stronghold of socialism just because it is a bastion of anti-war sentiment. This is why:
No doubt the men and women who came to the Oscars in gowns that cost more than an Army Sergeant makes in a year, in limousines with champagne in the back seat
Does this sound like socialism to you? No, this is the decadence of capitalism. You right-wingers created it, now stop whining about it.

think they are working class heroes to attack America -- which has made it all possible for them.
They're not attacking America so much as ignoring America's military commitments. Which I don't agree with, but to proclaim that they're "attacking America" is a ridiculous accusation.

They would be heroes if they said that Moslem extremists are the worst threat to human decency since Hitler and Stalin.

Why bother? The government is already saying that. What about Mao Tse-Tung and Kim-Jong-Il? Those guys kill more people than Muslim extremists.

And you, after all, know me soooo well! :rolleyes:
Anyone who has read any of your posts would not be convinced that you "have no 'side'" regardless of how many times you say it.

If you think Eutrusca is not a "sideless" neutral, raise your hand.

Thinly veiled ad hominem attack. How utterly ... duplicious of you. But then, I've come to expect that sort of thing from you. :rolleyes:

The foil wrapping starting to peel off your head Forrest? I merely stated an observed historical habit and here you're suddenly seeing an Oh Noes conspiracy theory against Log Cabin Republicans.

Anyone who has read any of your posts would not be convinced that you "have no 'side'" regardless of how many times you say it.

If you think Eutrusca is not a "sideless" neutral, raise your hand.
*raises hand*
And I've only been reading here for 2 months, so it's pretty obvious.

Please do not put me in the position of defending GW Bush, for I will not do so. :p

Funny, you've been doing that with every "Liberals are L00zrs l0l" thread you've started in the history of NS General.

:rolleyes:

LOL! Ohh-kayy. So you didn't "get" that it was a comparison for argument's sake and a bit hyperbolic. Tsk! :p
A comparison for argument's sake? A bit hyperbolic?

The two things he wrote about have nothing to do with each other!

It's like denouncing the Confederation of British Industry or the Wales Tourist Board for failing to mention the British Army at their next AGM. The guy is a bombastic jingoist whining about stuff not being said at an event where it didn't need to be said.

Funny, you've been doing that with every "Liberals are L00zrs l0l" thread you've started in the history of NS General.

:rolleyes:
Prove it.

A comparison for argument's sake? A bit hyperbolic?

The two things he wrote about have nothing to do with each other!

It's like denouncing the Confederation of British Industry or the Wales Tourist Board for failing to mention the British Army at their next AGM. The guy is a bombastic jingoist whining about stuff not being said at an event where it didn't need to be said.

Hollywood is full of self-absorbed hypocrites and Ben Stein's no exception. I mean, if there's such a severe problem with Hollywood not worshipping the military explicitly, he can do it on his next acting gig and thereafter. But does he? Of course not.

But what else to expect from a whole-hearted Nixon supporter?

He is wrong about a lot of the things he says, but he is right in saying that most Hollywood figures are pseudo-activists. It is far more about images than causes.

A comparison for argument's sake? A bit hyperbolic?

The two things he wrote about have nothing to do with each other!

It's like denouncing the Confederation of British Industry or the Wales Tourist Board for failing to mention the British Army at their next AGM. The guy is a bombastic jingoist whining about stuff not being said at an event where it didn't need to be said.
Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion. The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.

Hollywood is full of self-absorbed hypocrites and Ben Stein's no exception. I mean, if there's such a severe problem with Hollywood not worshipping the military explicitly, he can do it on his next acting gig and thereafter. But does he? Of course not.
Who said anything about "worshipping the military," oh clueless one?

Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion. The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.

Yet despite this the Amerikans voted for two terms for Ronnie, one term for Bush snr and two for Junior. Not much influence, if thats anything to go by.

Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion. The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.
Riiiiiiight. Which is why there's a Congress full of baby-killing, homosexual, atheistic, flag-burning commies. If Hollywood is a liberal propaganda machine, it's the least effective one in the history of the fucking world. :rolleyes:

Why should I give a shit - 'cause Ben Stein wrote this bilge?

Think again. People don't tune in to awards shows to get bummed out hearing about the sacrifices of dead people - they tune in for bland entertainment.

Up yours, Eutrusca. If what you seek is a society wherein the fighting man has achieved complete elevation over the concerns of all else, go find it somewhere - because the overall price of making this place into whatever the Hell it is you think it ought to be, with nonstop parades and lifelong adulation for anyone who so much as farted in uniform - is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too steep.

Uh ... perhaps that would be because I don't have a "side." :p
"Militarism is always right" is a side, isn't it?

Interesting. All that proves is that Ben Stein is just as human and prone to error as the rest of us. And your point?
There's a difference between making mistakes and lying.

If you think Eutrusca is not a "sideless" neutral, raise your hand.
His flames are disproportionately directed against left-wingers and anti-war activists.

Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion. The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.
He makes no attempt to make that case.

He begins with an observation that the military was not commemorated at the Oscars (what do they have to do with anything?), denounces Hollywood as being separate from America (wtf, over?), fake heroes (like, duh!), criticises them for not publically denouncing this or that (are they under any obligation?) and finishes off the statement that soldiers in Iraq are "greater" than the celebrities (meh, everyone's shit stinks the same).

Had he made any attempt to argue liberal bias, with references, then he would have been saying that you claim he said. But no. He was having a Hollywood-style ego-wank.

Who said anything about "worshipping the military," oh clueless one?

And you're calling *me* clueless?

Basically, the sad truth is that Hollywood does not think of itself as part of America, and so, to Hollywood, the war to save freedom from Islamic terrorists is happening to someone else. It does not concern them except insofar as it offers occasion to mock or criticize George Bush. They live in dreamland and cannot be gracious enough to thank the men and women who pay with their lives for the stars' ability to live in dreamland. This is shameful.

Riiiiiiight. Which is why there's a Congress full of baby-killing, homosexual, atheistic, flag-burning commies. If Hollywood is a liberal propaganda machine, it's the least effective one in the history of the fucking world. :rolleyes:
You are correct. It is. Thank you. :)

You are correct. It is. Thank you. :)
My reply depends on which part of my response you thought was correct.

If you think my statement about the makeup of the Congress was correct, then you need to start taking your lithium again, because you've obviously crossed over into a scary place.

If you think my statement about the ineffectiveness of Hollywood propaganda is correct, then why are your panties in such a knot over whether they sufficiently fellated the military during the ceremony when they're known for only fellating themselves? On second thought, maybe you ought to play it safe and start taking the lithium again regardless.

Wow, I sure hope they devote the entirety of the next Oscars to putting militarism on a pedestal. Cos every minute of broadcast time, around the clock, ought to be devoted to delineating true-blue Americans (soldiers) from those who simply foot the bills for keeping the grand fantasy institution of hetero-male-bonding-encounter-group-experiences alive.

Prove it.
The consensus of a dozen or so different people should really convince newcomers. Nothing, however, will convince you.

Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion. The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.
I'm sorry, but how many movies/television shows now glorify the military?

Prove it.

You asked for it. Man, the Corneliu disease is spreading.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360983

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361281

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361324

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361487

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361933

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362114

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362859

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=363055

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=363455

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=364395

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=364633

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=365465

And yet, through the entire search, I couldn't find a single thread with the same contemptuous and inflammatory tones aimed at the Right.

Well, I'll tell you what I hate more than Eutrusca does.

I hate it - I really hate it - when right-wing arseholes employ highly unclever, artificial buzzwords in order to promulgate cultural myths and stereotyping about the apparent (negatively connotated) political proclivities of entire geographical areas and all those who live and/or work therein.

It does nothing to further the arguments of sour old men, at the very least - and serves only to incite the virtuous anger of the rest of us. At best.

How divisive. How inegalitarian. How unAmerican.

what? Eut simply wants Hollywood to celebrate the freedoms they are given by NOT EXERCISING THEM AND BEING FORCED TO SAY STUFF THEY DISAGREE WITH. Nothing contradictory with that, eh?

Do we really need Hollywood producing propaganda, too? If you ask me, people are already as pro-government and capitalism as they're going to get. People like me, who reject those things, don't even pay much attention to Hollywood. If you ask me, the job of movie-makers should be to produce art, not propaganda (though they certainly aren't doing the former these days).

what? Eut simply wants Hollywood to celebrate the freedoms they are given by NOT EXERCISING THEM AND BEING FORCED TO SAY STUFF THEY DISAGREE WITH. Nothing contradictory with that, eh?
In Soviet Russia, public denunciations and endorsements of various things were for a long time, compulsory if demanded. I guess Eutrusca has a similar vision. If people like the opinion piece author get their way, his great-grand-children will have to stand up in class and denounce socialism just to stay on the safe side, in the interests of personal security.

I hate seeing threads get this sarcastic and a morass of borderline flamebaiting.

That said, I don't see a need to lock the thread yet. And what exactly was the point of calling for mod attention in a thread TG is already posting in regularly?

In Soviet Russia, public denunciations and endorsements of various things were for a long time, compulsory if demanded. I guess Eutrusca has a similar vision. If people like the opinion piece author get their way, his great-grand-children will have to stand up in class and denounce socialism just to stay on the safe side, in the interests of personal security.

As if reading his posts couldn't give you a hint about his thoughts, Forrest is in clear endorsement for an American Caste System where the military ranks above everyone else in a 21st Century Samurai aristocracy.

In Soviet Russia, public denunciations and endorsements of various things were for a long time, compulsory if demanded. I guess Eutrusca has a similar vision. If people like the opinion piece author get their way, his great-grand-children will have to stand up in class and denounce socialism just to stay on the safe side, in the interests of personal security.

Oh, I see. And here I thought Eut went to Nam to fight AGAINST Soviet Russia.

As if reading his posts couldn't give you a hint about his thoughts, Forrest is in clear endorsement for an American Caste System where the military ranks above everyone else in a 21st Century Samurai aristocracy.
Or perhaps a Heinleinian (try typing that three times quickly) system where military service=citizenship, a la Starship Troopers.

Oh, I see. And here I thought Eut went to Nam to fight AGAINST Soviet Russia.
Fascism and Communism have more in common than most people imagine.

Fascism and Communism have more in common than most people imagine.

Replace "communism" with "fake socialism" and you have a point. Sadly, Eutrusca sees no resemblance...

Fascism and Communism have more in common than most people imagine.
Yep totalitarianism.

Replace "communism" with "fake socialism" and you have a point. Sadly, Eutrusca sees no resemblance...

Finally. Another person who knows his shit about Socialism!

*hands you a cookie*

Finally. Another person who knows his shit about Socialism!

*hands you a cookie*

Yay! Cookie!

And what exactly was the point of calling for mod attention in a thread TG is already posting in regularly?

My apologies, TJHairball, Tactical Grace, thread contributors. I believe it was not so much the perceived slight as it was that I was the one making it. And while yes, it was indeed rude for me to have spoken in this manner, it seemed the least objectionable, expedient way to voice the thought I'd really actually had on the matter.

I'll make more of an effort to refrain from unnecessary rudeness. My apologies to all.

You asked for it. Man, the Corneliu disease is spreading.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360983

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361281

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361324

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361487

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361933

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362114

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362859

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=363055

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=363455

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=364395

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=364633

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=365465

And yet, through the entire search, I couldn't find a single thread with the same contemptuous and inflammatory tones aimed at the Right.
I guess people need to be careful when asking you to prove something huh? :)

"Hollyweird". I like the word. It reminds me of the really cool dudes who wear bow ties, drink milk, and feel their government is keeping the world safe for democracy by fighting them reds.

http://www.laminorul-targoviste.ro/img/otel_patrat.gif

Daddy-o.

"Hollyweird". I like the word. It reminds me of the really cool dudes who wear bow ties, drink milk, and feel their government is keeping the world safe for democracy by fighting them reds.

http://www.laminorul-targoviste.ro/img/otel_patrat.gif

Daddy-o.
Real "L7", huh?

Then along comes Ben Stein, who says it so much better than I probably ever could:

What's Hollywood ever done for America, anyway?

As if reading his posts couldn't give you a hint about his thoughts, Forrest is in clear endorsement for an American Caste System where the military ranks above everyone else in a 21st Century Samurai aristocracy.
Military personnel are ranked above civilians - ! Sheesh.

Yep totalitarianism.
Is that meant to be a dig against G.W. Bush? He was elected, you know - twice.

Is that meant to be a dig against G.W. Bush? He was elected, you know - twice.
So you think Bush is a fascist?

So you think Bush is a fascist?
Personally, I think Bush is a strategically-shaven chimpanzee. A strategically-shaven chimpanzee with an air of entitlement.







Cheney. There's your fascist right there.

There were also no tributes to police officers, firefighters, teachers, doctors, nurses, people who volunteer at soup kitchens, or, in fact, pretty much anyone who has no involvement whatsoever in making movies. How strange, that in an event specifically designed to honor people involved in the production of movies, they only honored people involved in the production of movies. Those bastards!



Yes, I can't imagine why anyone would want to point out the problems with McCarthy-esque thinking now. Clearly, this is totally irrelevant to modern politics, in which people who don't interrupt non-political events with war rallies are promptly branded un-American cowards. Yup. Totally irrelevant.



This would be "brave" in precisely the same sense that shooting oneself in the ass would be brave. It takes a certain amount of guts, true, but it doesn't exactly accomplish much except making you look like an idiot. It would also make for some excruciatingly boring movies. :p


Wow. Well said.

100% Sarcasm Free.

I have four things to say.

1. Why is it either worship Hollywood or hate them, why is there no middle ground? I don't hate Hollywood, i love movies, music and TV, and there are certain celebrities i like because i think they are talented, or hot, or because they just seem cool. I don't worship them though, they aren't my heroes, i just like that they entertain me.

2. As has been mentioned, the Oscars are a night to honor movies and moviemakers, what do people expect? If the company you work for was having a dinner or special event to honor the company and its employees, would you expect people to pay tribute to the military? The Oscars aren't about that, and they don't need to be.

3. Sure, some Hollywood productions are pure fluff, but there is room for that too. Some movies i really like, some of the ones i have seen multiple times, are not box office classics. I love cheeseball romantic comedies for example, i love Pirates of the Caribbean because it makes me laugh. It's entertainment and escapism, not every movie has to have an important message or be out to change the world. That's not to say that social commentary is not a part of art, because it is, and i also love many socially conscious movies. There is good stuff out there, you just have to look. I'm not just talking about Brokeback Mountain and Crash either, though those were both great movies. There are also plenty of independent movies, such as Garden State, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Life is Beautiful, etc. that are either very socially conscious or well acted and well made. Yes, that is all subjective, so then why is it even an argument? It's pointless to argue likes and dislikes.

4. I like Ben Stein, but who is he kidding? He's an actor too and has made plenty of money doing it. It's hypocrtitical of him to criticise that part of it. If he is so morally opposed to the designer gowns and limos, perhaps he should have chosen a different profession.

A few points Eutrusca:
I'm gay yet am a proud right-winger.
I don't see why gay rights have to be equated with the idiots who make up hollywood, though not all in hollywood are idiots.
A useful point to make is that the far-left are janus face. They claimed to be in favour of gay rights yet support Islamist movements like Hamas and AQ.
Hamas made a statement this month calling for a new law in Palestine to execute, via hanging, all homosexuals and bisexual people.
The far-left support Castro, the Cuban tyrant, to the hilt yet Cuba has special concentration camps for homosexuals, yet make a public comparison of that to Nazi Germany and they call you a puppet of Batista, despite the fact that Batsita cannot regain control of Cuba, given the fact that he has been dead since 1971.
The far-left are delusional, in a very literal sense, for they cannot see the double standards that they apply.
Capitalist systems are the most gay friendly societies we have known since the ancient times (prior to the rise of religions like Judaism/Christianity and Islam, all of them barbaric and bigoted in their views).
Gays flourish under capitalism as well, most of them. For they have an economic advantage over the rest in that we don't spend money on children and wives.
The average cost of a child over 18 years in my country, Britain, is £169,000 or about $350,000.
Yes Hollywood is too 'liberal' and more correctly far-left, for liberalism is nothing like what the so-called liberals stand for.
Most gays actually hold right-wing views, the ones I've meet anyways.

As for the Bill Stein article...

I watched the Oscars, every second of it, i was staying in a jumped up holiday inn in Hong Kong and there was nothing else on the poor selection of channels it offers that was in english.

So they didn't hold a minute of silence for the dead and maimed soldiers who fought in a war they protested against begining ? So what, he doesnt put one in all his shows i'm sure, i'm sure the troops serving in iraq and afganistan right now are far more disheartened by the military ineptitude shown by the high level members of this busgh administration who seem to believe they are better at fighting a war than their military commanders.

Hollywood (and it really annoys me when people call it Hollywierd, just as it annoys me when people ay Micro$oft and the Grauniad, because name-calling, which is all Hollywierd amounts to is childish and it annoys me that someone should demean themselves so whilst taking the moral high ground) is not some clone army all championing gay rights, its actually quite duplicitous in that respect, many people support the movemet in word alone and their actual achievements in the field are really in that they affect change in the rest of the country.

More importantly...

"A useful point to make is that the far-left are janus face. They claimed to be in favour of gay rights yet support Islamist movements like Hamas and AQ.
Hamas made a statement this month calling for a new law in Palestine to execute, via hanging, all homosexuals and bisexual people."

An important point eh ? I don't see how a sweeping and generally incorrect generalization is important. I dont know when you were last called a puppet of Bastita but its not exactly been a common phrase since ooh, never. I don't know anyone who support Castro rule of Cuba and it would be foolish to do so, and the fact that you accuse Leftist of being blind to reality and then list a string of believes not generally held by leftists is telling.

The capitalist system is hardly gay freindly considering that its doctrine is based on the moral believes held by those that make up its richest members, who are on the whole not gay freindly. places like Japan prior to catholic interference was gay freindly like many eastern states, given that it did not equate sexuality with some rigid definition of whether youve ever slept with one sex or the other, and were far more concerned with whether or not you conceived an heir rather than what you did in your spare time.

The Real Scandal of the Oscars was that bit where two people (a man and a woman) came up to accept an Oscar and the man gushed for ages thanking everyone in his entire life for so long that the woman had time to say "Tha-" before the mic was cut and the music played.

Military personnel are ranked above civilians - ! Sheesh.

So you'd be thrilled if the United States became a society where the military is the new samurai class with all the perks including the right to honor kill anyone lesser?

So you'd be thrilled if the United States became a society where the military is the new samurai class with all the perks including the right to honor kill anyone lesser?
I don't know hy you're making it sound so Japanese. I said that a soldier outranks a civilian. It's just the truth of the matter. Wha's wrong with giving our soldiers a few perks? It's our freedom they'r defedning after all. We owe them a debt of gratitude.

I guess people need to be careful when asking you to prove something huh? :)

And notice Forrest has been vewy vewy qwiet on this thread since that post.

:D

I don't know hy you're making it sound so Japanese. I said that a soldier outranks a civilian. It's just the truth of the matter. Wha's wrong with giving our soldiers a few perks? It's our freedom they'r defedning after all. We owe them a debt of gratitude.

The military troops do deserve some perks. But that's a far cry from what Forrest would to see, with the United States military becoming the new aristocracy. He'd love more than anything else to make criticizing any military action no matter how out the ass criminal it might be a capital offense. It all goes back to being spit on by batshit insane protestors he's refused to get over.

Why I hate Hollyweird!

You just hate them because they passed you up for the supporting role in Brokeback Mountain.

So?
...
Something I've never understood, why is it that war movies are "propaganda" when they follow the same plot set-up as every other "Small group overcomes great adversity, defeats demonized bad guys, and saves universe"-style movie?
1) One is made by the government, and therefore political in nature.
2) The enemies/bad guys really existed. In war movies it is impossible to create any single character without making comments about that character's army as a whole. By portraying the German as the cheating, lying coward, the Japanese as the incompetent cannon fodder, by taking out the American committing war crimes - you create a generalisation of that army, and by that logic, even of that country.
3) These movies create a heroic image of the army. Of course a superhero picture will create a heroic image of the hero - but the effects on the audience are nonetheless different. Some might be compelled to act on that image, and ultimately the consequences between someone wearing his underpants on the outside to stop crime, and someone joining the army are quite different.

One can probably make many more points on how military propaganda is different from normal action movies, but these are the three that I came up with.

You just hate them because they passed you up for the supporting role in Brokeback Mountain.

LOL....thats the funniest thing I've read all night.

Hollywood will have a chance to buy itself another few years of amnesty in my book, come July of next year.

LOL....thats the funniest thing I've read all night.

Thank you ... *bow* ... thank you ... I'll be here all week ... *bow*

:D

(Eut knows I'm just yankin' his crank)

1) One is made by the government, and therefore political in nature.
When did Warner Brothers become a seperate country?
2) The enemies/bad guys really existed. In war movies it is impossible to create any single character without making comments about that character's army as a whole. By portraying the German as the cheating, lying coward, the Japanese as the incompetent cannon fodder, by taking out the American committing war crimes - you create a generalisation of that army, and by that logic, even of that country.
And there are no criminals who only turned down that path when their other choices were all removed? Or are you implying that the organized crime and police forces don't exist?
And, really, to assume that people are that incapable of telling truth from fiction is fucking insulting.
3) These movies create a heroic image of the army. Of course a superhero picture will create a heroic image of the hero - but the effects on the audience are nonetheless different. Some might be compelled to act on that image, and ultimately the consequences between someone wearing his underpants on the outside to stop crime, and someone joining the army are quite different.
Personally, I'd rather that people join the army than start running about in the streets, looking for "wrongs" to right. In the army, their interests are channeled by a rigid hierarchy with set goals, running loose on the street it is impossible to tell what they'll do.
More importantly, your argument doesn't fly at all. How many millions of people watched the Godfather? How many of them then proceeded to speak incoherently and run criminal empires.
Like with point two, the logic you follow is that people will senselessly replicate whatever action they see on screen. Somehow, though, there aren't hordes of newly minted gang members running around boosting cars (in reaction to GTA), nor are there very many masked vigilantes.
One can probably make many more points on how military propaganda is different from normal action movies, but these are the three that I came up with.
The difference only appears if one is obsessed with the military. Everyone else sees a fun way to waste a Saturday afternoon, that just happens to contain a few uniforms of a certain type in it.

You just hate them because they passed you up for the supporting role in Brokeback Mountain.
:eek:

How did you KNOW! Damn. I wasn't going to come out for at least another six months! :D

When did Warner Brothers become a seperate country?
I don't think you can find a single movie about the military that doesn't get resources from the Pentagon for the battle scenes. And as with Windtalkers, occasionally for that studios have to change things.

And there are no criminals who only turned down that path when their other choices were all removed? Or are you implying that the organized crime and police forces don't exist?
That's not the sort of characters that are being shown in good vs evil action movies though. If you're talking about the Godfather, then that's a different genre in which there are no real good guys or bad guys.

And, really, to assume that people are that incapable of telling truth from fiction is fucking insulting.
I don't have a particularly high opinion of most of my fellow moviegoers, no.

Personally, I'd rather that people join the army than start running about in the streets, looking for "wrongs" to right. In the army, their interests are channeled by a rigid hierarchy with set goals, running loose on the street it is impossible to tell what they'll do.
I was obviously being sarcastic. But the military is a real choice, being a superhero alá True Lies isn't.
And besides, if you acknowledge that people join the military because of what they've seen in the movies, then you acknowledge that it is propaganda. You might agree with its goals, but I don't.

More importantly, your argument doesn't fly at all. How many millions of people watched the Godfather? How many of them then proceeded to speak incoherently and run criminal empires.
Who knows?
But again, joining the military is a realistic choice in life, and movies (I believe) play a part in that.
Being a mafiosi isn't.

Everyone else sees a fun way to waste a Saturday afternoon, that just happens to contain a few uniforms of a certain type in it.
Uniforms that represent things, that people have fought and died for, of course.
It's a topic that warrants at least a little bit of respect and objectivity.

I respect him, although I don't agree with him.

One problem I have with him, though, is that he always says "Moslem" instead of the proper way, "Muslim".

"Muslims do not recommend this spelling because it is often pronounced 'mawzlem' /mɒzlɛm/ which sounds somewhat similar to an Arabic word for 'oppressor'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moslem#Pronunciation_and_spelling

I don't think you can find a single movie about the military that doesn't get resources from the Pentagon for the battle scenes. And as with Windtalkers, occasionally for that studios have to change things.
Well, the Pentagon is the expert authority on how the US Military likes to blow things up, and since action movies are just an excuse to show the heroes (in this case, the US Military) blowing things up it follows that producers might go to the experts.
That's not the sort of characters that are being shown in good vs evil action movies though. If you're talking about the Godfather, then that's a different genre in which there are no real good guys or bad guys.
I was thinking along the lines of Dirty Harry, Face Off, Exit Wounds, etc. All those movies protray the issue as simple and easy, with the good guys carrying badges (though sometimes one of them is crooked) and the bad guys being thugs.
No one cares that the police are glamorized and that law breakers are dehumanized by those movies, yet they are guilty of the same oversimplification.
I don't have a particularly high opinion of most of my fellow moviegoers, no.
Then shouldn't you be more concerned about them seeing a movie where violence is promoted? After all, if they're going to run out and enlist after watching Windtalkers, what's to stop them from opening fire on a nursery during their trip to the recruiter's station?
I was obviously being sarcastic. But the military is a real choice, being a superhero alá True Lies isn't.
And besides, if you acknowledge that people join the military because of what they've seen in the movies, then you acknowledge that it is propaganda. You might agree with its goals, but I don't.
I didn't acknowledge it, I simply said that if they have to be influenced toward a certain career path, I'd prefer it be one that will keep them in line (the police or army). Also, if they do go out and enlist, boot camp might be just what is required to teach them not to believe all the glamour they see.
A hard lesson, yes, but you don't seem to think there is any other way that they can learn.
Who knows?
But again, joining the military is a realistic choice in life, and movies (I believe) play a part in that.
Being a mafiosi isn't.
A lot of people aren't being very realistic, then.
Uniforms that represent things, that people have fought and died for, of course.
It's a topic that warrants at least a little bit of respect and objectivity.
Objectivity is for pinko, commie, america-hating Journalists and the only one who gets my respect is Otis Redding.
The fact is, all issues are ultimately "complicated", but that doesn't mean we have to think in shades of grey all the time. There are occassions when one just wants to see a movie where the good guys are always good, the bad guys are charicatures, and everything ends happily. Sometimes, the setting is a war with Nazis and Americans, and sometimes the setting is LA with FBI agents and bank robbers.

:eek:

How did you KNOW! Damn. I wasn't going to come out for at least another six months! :D
Better announce it. It's not a secret anymore. We all know.

Better announce it. It's not a secret anymore. We all know.
No point now. All the shock value is gone! :(

No point now. All the shock value is gone! :(
pfft. Drama queen. :p

pfft. Drama queen. :p
Yeth! :D

:eek:

How did you KNOW! Damn. I wasn't going to come out for at least another six months! :DSo does your boyfriend say, in a soft southern drawl, "Come, Forrest. Come."?
:D

And notice Forrest has been vewy vewy qwiet on this thread since that post.

:D
I heard that he was hiding in the "closet". :D

So does your boyfriend say, in a soft southern drawl, "Come, Forrest. Come."?
:D


lmao......

lmao......
I'm really glad Eutrusca is taking this so well.

I'm really glad Eutrusca is taking this so well.
You mean that Forrest is the catcher? :eek:

You mean that Forrest is the catcher? :eek:
Not going there. It's bad enough I made a gay porn/Forrest Gump reference. :D

Not going there. It's bad enough I made a gay porn/Forrest Gump reference. :D
awww. You know you loved it. :D :fluffle:

Oil companies ARE evil.

Let's face it, they're doing their best to keep us on an oil economy despite the fact that it funds the Islamist terrorism that we're fighting, and despite the fact that oil is in limited supply, highly polluting, and soon will become so expensive as to become a drag on our economy. Of course from the oil company's point of view none of that matters. They're looking foreward to high oil prices in order to make high profits. Meanwhile, their lackeys in Washington are being convinced not to fund different energy technologies like nuclear, solar, and wind, which together might reduce our dependence on oil dramatically.

Nuclear, solar, and wind? Only one of those is a viable solution, and that's nuclear. I'm pretty sure that there aren't too many people who would want to live anywhere near a nuclear power plant.

Solar? Do you have any idea how many solar panels are needed to power just one house? And let's not forget about what happens when there's an absence of sunlight(storms, night, etc.).

Wind? The amount of energy gained from wind is very little, and people don't realize just how many birds are butchered by those propellers. I mean, I don't really care too much about killing animals, as long as it was for a good reason (food, etc.) but the numbers of dead birds for one propeller is amazingly high and you'd need a lot of propellers to get any sufficient amount of energy.

... and people don't realize just how many birds are butchered by those propellers. I mean, I don't really care too much about killing animals, as long as it was for a good reason (food, etc.) but the numbers of dead birds for one propeller is amazingly high ...

There is little risk to birds from wind farms.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4072756.stm

http://www.windpower.org/en/tour/env/birds.htm

http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/earthwise/sum04-earthwise-wind-turbines-and-birds.html

"A recent study concluded that approximately 33,000 birds were killed at U.S. wind farms in 2001, and the vast majority of fatalities occurred at older sites. Even if wind power supplied all of the United States' energy needs, wind turbines would constitute only a small fraction of the estimated 200 million to 500 million annual bird fatalities attributable to human activity (e.g., vehicles, buildings and windows, power lines, communication towers, airplanes, house cats)."

Not that I believe that wind will ever replace the masive ammount of energy we get from fossil fuels, but the bird thing has been seriously over blown.

.

I'm really glad Eutrusca is taking this so well.


He's a good sport. I'm sure he'll come in and say "frakking" this and that in a minute though.

Oh, I'm sure he'll start foaming at the mouth once he sees I've posted here again.

It doesn't really surprise me that Hollywood failed to recognize the sacrifice of our troops over in Iraq at the Oscars. Nor should it surprise anyone else. As George Clooney said on the Oscar broadcast.....

"We are a little bit out of touch in Hollywood every once in a while,"

"We were the ones who talked about AIDS when it was being whispered. We talked about civil rights when it wasn't really popular,".

"I'm proud to be part of this Academy. I'm proud to be part of this community. I'm proud to be out of touch," Clooney added.

And so he is, indeed.

But, at the same time, it must be said that even if Hollywood did not recognize the sacrifice of our troops at their Oscar night, well, why should they? It isn't Hollywood's job to attempt to right the ills of society or to recognize the sacrifices of our servicemen and women or even to comment on them, by using their awards night show as a bully pulpit to do so. It was, and remains, an entertainment awards show. Political commentary has no place in it. Not really. Sometimes it creeps in there nonetheless. But to condemn it for not taking a political stand is, well, just a little bit silly.

I have four things to say.

1. Why is it either worship Hollywood or hate them, why is there no middle ground? I don't hate Hollywood, i love movies, music and TV, and there are certain celebrities i like because i think they are talented, or hot, or because they just seem cool. I don't worship them though, they aren't my heroes, i just like that they entertain me.
For the vast majority of people it is just that. For Caliphobes like Eutrusca it's just one more representation of a state that allows people to be different with out getting all 'stick up the ass' about it. For some, and I honestly have never met one of these cats, but somebody has got to be buying all those magazines and keeping all those shallow shows on the air, Hollywood culture is a cult of personality. That's a shame, but really not that much different than people who live and die off the exploits of an athlete or commentator on AM radio. A simple loss of scope.

Then there are those with their heads up the dark places of their bodies who harbor some irrational fear of an industry, maybe it's a shortcut to the appearance of intellectualism-akin to wearing a 'kill your television' sticker. Maybe they have a rejected screenplay in their drawer somewhere. Maybe, most ironically, they have fallen to the overstatement that lies in Hollywood's criticism of itself. Who the fuck knows. But for the majority of people, movies are just movies, they like some, they don't like others and the world keeps on spinning.

Hell, I'm in 'the industry' and have worked with and talked to people who have won Oscars and even I don't watch them that often, and rarely end to end, including this year.
2. As has been mentioned, the Oscars are a night to honor movies and moviemakers, what do people expect? If the company you work for was having a dinner or special event to honor the company and its employees, would you expect people to pay tribute to the military? The Oscars aren't about that, and they don't need to be.

Not to mention that if they had mentioned the troops or had a minute of silence they would have been lambasted for being disingenuous. For some people, they can't win for trying...

Three years ago, when the war started, there was mention of the troops at the Oscars and the only person who criticized Bush was booed off the stage. How quickly Ben forgets...

This is why I haven't been commenting.

3. Sure, some Hollywood productions are pure fluff, but there is room for that too. Some movies i really like, some of the ones i have seen multiple times, are not box office classics. I love cheeseball romantic comedies for example, i love Pirates of the Caribbean because it makes me laugh. It's entertainment and escapism, not every movie has to have an important message or be out to change the world. That's not to say that social commentary is not a part of art, because it is, and i also love many socially conscious movies. There is good stuff out there, you just have to look. I'm not just talking about Brokeback Mountain and Crash either, though those were both great movies. There are also plenty of independent movies, such as Garden State, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Life is Beautiful, etc. that are either very socially conscious or well acted and well made. Yes, that is all subjective, so then why is it even an argument? It's pointless to argue likes and dislikes.
As I mentioned earlier, "Hollywood sucks" is the shortcut to the appearances of intellectualism, but in reality shows the weakness of the person saying it. There is plenty of good out there, if one can't find it it speaks more ill of their judgement in what they watch than what is put out. If you watch Dude, Where's My Car, you have only yourself to blame.

4. I like Ben Stein, but who is he kidding? He's an actor too and has made plenty of money doing it. It's hypocrtitical of him to criticise that part of it. If he is so morally opposed to the designer gowns and limos, perhaps he should have chosen a different profession.
And that's the best part, an insider pretending to be an outsider. And his career hasn't been harmed by any of it. He's a cult figure, he had a popular long running game show based on his celebrity-the only other one to have that is Donald Trump. He is the spokesperson for a couple of products. The only thing limiting Stien is range, even R. Lee Ermy is willing to play with his image (for instance, playing a drill sergeant-esque coach who's gay in Saving Silverman...for a character actor that's a stretch...)

Uh ... Hollyweird is in the business of creating "entertainment." While doing so, they influence opinion.
Yes - THey're in the business of ENTERTAINMENT. Not propoganda. OK?
Their sole purpose is to make money. If they thought they could make million$ from telling everyone how 'great' and 'wonderful' and 'noble' military is, they would. end of story.

The preponderance of left-leaning themes in most movies ( and, for the television crowd, most series ) influences opinion in only one direction.
Prove it.

As for the Bill Stein article...

I watched the Oscars, every second of it, i was staying in a jumped up holiday inn in Hong Kong and there was nothing else on the poor selection of channels it offers that was in english.
You were in HK? Shame you didn't pm me. I would have taken you out to show the better parts of HK the tour books don't normally mention.

What's Hollywood ever done for America, anyway?
Umm...off the top of my head, poured million$ upon million$ into the states through it's successful movies.

You are far too easily amused. :rolleyes:
Oh, you have NO idea! That's why I don't complain about Hollywood I guess... And why I ever started reading this thread, even ;)
But that Stein was just silly :)

Finally. Another person who knows his shit about Socialism!

*hands you a cookie*
Where are you getting all these cookies from?

I guess people need to be careful when asking you to prove something huh? :)
Eutrusca was such a troll when he was a n00bie.

What's Hollywood ever done for America, anyway?
Improved its economy and cultural wealth.

Military personnel are ranked above civilians - ! Sheesh.
Not really. They lack certain rights such as the right to a trial in the standard justice system and their freedom of speech is curtailed.

I don't know hy you're making it sound so Japanese. I said that a soldier outranks a civilian. It's just the truth of the matter. Wha's wrong with giving our soldiers a few perks? It's our freedom they'r defedning after all. We owe them a debt of gratitude.
What perks do you have in mind?

You just hate them because they passed you up for the supporting role in Brokeback Mountain.
Looks like Keruvalia has just won another thread!

Wind? The amount of energy gained from wind is very little, and people don't realize just how many birds are butchered by those propellers.
Who cares? A few thousand fucking birds is a small price to pay when there's a planet to save.

Looks like Keruvalia has just won another thread!
Indeed he did!!! :)