NationStates Jolt Archive

I just read a story in todays paper that says the US Army has prohibitted the use of non issue body armour by it's troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Seems that since they were a little tardy in supplying our guys with what they needed to survive many bought or had their families buy them armour from independant companies. Many spent thousands of dollars on this armour. One of the most popular is the Dragon Skin brand whose manufacturer claims it is superior to the Interceptor armour issued by the army. The army claims that since they haven't tested the armour they can't have their guys wearing non standard gear.

Anybody else smell a political motivation...?

There have been a lot of cases of friends and families sending body armour, communications equipment, and night vision kit to loved ones in Iraq because they are in units that aren’t properly equipped. There are a lot of units out there whose only communications on patrol are Motorola’s sent from family’s who want to see their sons come home in one piece. It’s pretty shameful. If you can’t supply and properly equip a unit on the ground overseas as the leading superpower in the World you’ve got a lot to answer for.

This has caused a lot of embarassment at home so their answer is to try to keep troops from using non-issue kit, instead of issuing them with the kit they need.

Personally, I think the answer is to send the Pentagon and White House chicken hawks, who aren’t doing their job to properly kit out the troops, out on patrol in Iraq without the proper kit and then you might see some changes very quickly. After all they are raising the age limit for joining the military.

Actually it sounds like the strangling red tape of bureaucracy. One of those times where proceedure crushes functionality. I never like that as an excuse, since it's people who have to enforce it and they should be able to use their fool heads and decide not to.

There have been a lot of cases of friends and families sending body armour, communications equipment, and night vision kit to loved ones in Iraq because they are in units that aren’t properly equipped. There are a lot of units out there whose only communications on patrol are Motorola’s sent from family’s who want to see their sons come home in one piece. It’s pretty shameful. If you can’t supply and properly equip a unit on the ground overseas as the leading superpower in the World you’ve got a lot to answer for.

This has caused a lot of embarassment at home so their answer is to try to keep troops from using non-issue kit, instead of issuing them with the kit they need.

Personally, I think the answer is to send the Pentagon and White House chicken hawks, who aren’t doing their job to properly kit out the troops, out on patrol in Iraq without the proper kit and then you might see some changes very quickly. After all they are raising the age limit for joining the military.
Such a big change from the WWII attitude, where we where engaged to help out like this, eh?

I'd think more legal and logistical issues. The military tends to prefer standardization of arms and equipment for good reason. It keeps supplying troops with equipment easier, it's generally cheaper to buy gear in larger quantities..... And lets face it, if it turns out that ther IS a problem with the privately bought armor and a soldier gets killed or wounded because of a failure, the Army is the one who is gonna get it in the ass, not the company.

See, it's this type of talk that makes it look like the USA isn't united, and helps the terrorists.

Why do you hate America?

Can't you supoort our brave men and wome....oh...never mind

First of all, Dragon Skin's claims, as far as I know, have not been tested. It could actually be that the armor is inferior for all we know under certain conditions.

It's not just that. A standardization helps maintain order and equality in the military as well. If soldiers could just buy their own weapons and armor, some units could find themselves at a disadvantage. Let's say you have some awesome gun you brought along, and you get killed. I need ammo. How am I supposed to get some off of you if you aren't carrying the same kind as the rest of us? Furthermore, how am I supposed to think a mission is fair if I know half the guys will have a better chance at surviving if we run into trouble?

From a resupply point of view, it makes more sense as well. It's easier to replenish a lot of a single thing than having to make reservations for varieties of equipment.

I'd think more legal and logistical issues. The military tends to prefer standardization of arms and equipment for good reason. It keeps supplying troops with equipment easier, it's generally cheaper to buy gear in larger quantities..... And lets face it, if it turns out that ther IS a problem with the privately bought armor and a soldier gets killed or wounded because of a failure, the Army is the one who is gonna get it in the ass, not the company.
You'd think that the army would have got in in the ass for not having any armor in the first place. Or at least those responsable for sending them that way...but instead they probably got medals...

I was under the impression that funding for that would come through the DOD?

.... Furthermore, how am I supposed to think a mission is fair if I know half the guys will have a better chance at surviving if we run into trouble?
....
level playground is not the issue

First of all, Dragon Skin's claims, as far as I know, have not been tested. It could actually be that the armor is inferior for all we know under certain conditions.

Better than nothing though.

It's not just that. A standardization helps maintain order and equality in the military as well. If soldiers could just buy their own weapons and armor, some units could find themselves at a disadvantage. Let's say you have some awesome gun you brought along, and you get killed. I need ammo. How am I supposed to get some off of you if you aren't carrying the same kind as the rest of us? Furthermore, how am I supposed to think a mission is fair if I know half the guys will have a better chance at surviving if we run into trouble?

Fair? This is a warzone. Fair doesn't come into it. Plus is it fair if half the soldiers have no body armour at all?

From a resupply point of view, it makes more sense as well. It's easier to replenish a lot of a single thing than having to make reservations for varieties of equipment.

Well it seems they need to be supplied in the first place for this to work.

I just feel that if they have nothing else, then that is what they should use.

See, it's this type of talk that makes it look like the USA isn't united, and helps the terrorists.

Why do you hate America?

Can't you supoort our brave men and wome....oh...never mind



So, you're saying, that if we do not support that asshole, Bush, and his Bevis and Butthead cronies over at the Pentagon, that we "hate America" and are "helping the terrorists"? FUCK YOU. :upyours:

For anybody who's interested, the full A.P. story can be read here. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARMY_BODY_ARMOR?SITE=OKTUL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

So, you're saying, that if we do not support that asshole, Bush, and his Bevis and Butthead cronies over at the Pentagon, that we "hate America" and are "helping the terrorists"? FUCK YOU. :upyours:
I think he was being sarcastic, dude.

So, you're saying, that if we do not support that asshole, Bush, and his Bevis and Butthead cronies over at the Pentagon, that we "hate America" and are "helping the terrorists"? FUCK YOU. :upyours:
Why do you dislike bush?:confused:

George W Bush is the man.... My brother is over there in Iraqistan and he feels that the army's armor is superior than most commercial armor. And if any one says anything bad about the troops over there i will have you murdered in your sleep.:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

See, it's this type of talk that makes it look like the USA isn't united, and helps the terrorists.

Why do you hate America?

Can't you supoort our brave men and wome....oh...never mind

The, oh, nevermind sort of brings forth sarcasm.

The same cannot be said about mr. sniper post.

George W Bush is the man.... My brother is over there in Iraqistan and he feels that the army's armor is superior than most commercial armor. And if any one says anything bad about the troops over there i will have you murdered in your sleep.:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

psst... those troops over there are crap. They couldn't even keep themselves from shooting each other because they're so freaking nervous.

George W Bush is the man.... My brother is over there in Iraqistan and he feels that the army's armor is superior than most commercial armor. And if any one says anything bad about the troops over there i will have you murdered in your sleep.:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:
You'll love bush even more at the funeral.

The, oh, nevermind sort of brings forth sarcasm.

The same cannot be said about mr. sniper post.



psst... those troops over there are crap. They couldn't even keep themselves from shooting each other because they're so freaking nervous.

I'm thinking that sniper-boy is being sarcastic as well (Iraqistan), but we've had a glut of puppet/trolls of late, so I could be wrong.

I'm thinking that sniper-boy is being sarcastic as well (Iraqistan), but we've had a glut of puppet/trolls of late, so I could be wrong.

I dunno, all those sniper emotes...

Besides, I just Had to do it.

Sorry about it though :p too tempting!

One of the problems was that the US army wasn’t prepared for a prolonged mission like Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time. The logistics is being stretched because when you use equipment and weapons platforms that much they need more maintenance and more replacement due to breaking down. This is long term employment of expensive materials is costing the US a fortune, especially when some of this kit is crap and doesn’t take well to long term use (like the notorious plastic pins holding US army webbing together for instance). That and you now have a bunch of units being composed of a bunch of desk jockeys tossed out on patrol; while their jobs are being backfilled by reassigned naval staff.

The biggest shortages come from the mobilized Reserve units. These type of units always tended to get the crappy end of the logistics stick and are the last to receive any new shiny kit that gets developed. Until they sent them off to Iraq as regulars it wasn’t as much of a problem. Now they’re there but without the same gear as their Reg force compatriots. I don’t think that when they were blindly backfilling in Reserve units to Reg force taskings that they took into account the need to ensure that all of the Reserve units were properly equipped.

The Bruce

*pimp slaps Bush*

Da ho forgot ma money.

It is a problem, but you don't know about the type of armour and what it could do. Crappy body armour that is tested is better then non-tested body armour?

A secret Pentagon study last year concluded that up to 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from upper-body wounds could have survived had they been given extra body armor.

George W Bush is the man.... My brother is over there in Iraqistan and he feels that the army's armor is superior than most commercial armor. And if any one says anything bad about the troops over there i will have you murdered in your sleep.:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

DOT DOT DOT.

A secret Pentagon study last year concluded that up to 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from upper-body wounds could have survived had they been given extra body armor.

Proof?

A secret Pentagon study last year concluded that up to 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from upper-body wounds could have survived had they been given extra body armor.

Mm, for example if they were incased in impentrable steel when they were shot its unlikey they would have died. >.<

Proof?
it was a secret study

I think he's joking, because its a SECRET study. >.>

Mm, for example if they were incased in impentrable steel when they were shot its unlikey they would have died. >.<
which is why soldiers have been reduced to using garbage can lids for protection

it was a secret study

And that's proof HOW?
He really IS a Gerble, Loopy or Bong.
Also, how did you find this out?

Mm, for example if they were incased in impentrable steel when they were shot its unlikey they would have died. >.<

Which is impossible.

And that's proof HOW?
He really IS a Gerble, Loopy or Bong.
Also, how did you find this out?
the blogosphere

So you have nothing. I suggest you find proof before we all hate you.

the blogosphere

Link?

which is why soldiers have been reduced to using garbage can lids for protection

AND standard issue saucepan helmets.

So you have nothing. I suggest you find proof before we all hate you.
I want to dethrone UNA for the most hated poster:cool:

I want to dethrone UNA for the most hated poster:cool:

You're doing very well.

AND standard issue saucepan helmets.
:D

:D

(lol)

But in all seriousness, they use Kevlar.

Link?
Ill have to get permission

You know our helmets we are planning to have next are the most powerful helmet ever made and will easily deflect most bullets from rifles now?

(lol)

But in all seriousness, they use Kevlar.
is that a form of teflon?

Ill have to get permission

Seeing as your argument will rest on this link, you better get permission.

Ill have to get permission

You don't need permission. Under the 'fair use' law you are allowed to review, post, source and speak about the work. Just post the link.

is that a form of teflon?

Kevlar is a polymer which is very rigid and good at stopping bullets once.

Teflon reduces barrel wear caused by AP rounds in guns.

I emailed him

Kevlar is a polymer which is very rigid and good at stopping bullets once.

Teflon reduces barrel wear caused by AP rounds in guns.
stopping one bullet or stopping a sequence of bullets fired in one round?

stopping one bullet or stopping a sequence of bullets fired in one round/

Basically it protects from a burst of reasonable rounds. NBot AP or machine gun rounds though.

I emailed him

Just post the LINK.

Basically it protects from a burst of reasonable rounds. NBot AP or machine gun rounds though.
how do you know all this

Just post the LINK.
im still waiting for the security clearance

how do you know all this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar

http://www.dupont.com/kevlar/

There.

im still waiting for the security clearance

Anything that needs that much security is not online.

Your argument has failed.

how do you know all this

Anyone who researches military gear would know this.

Anyone who researches military gear would know this.

I happen to qualify under that category.

im still waiting for the security clearance

A blog does not need a security clearance, its fake.

I can't stop laughing. Really, I can't.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_FutureUni,,00.html

Behold the future. :P

OK, continue the argument in the thread I started. No more hijacking.

Oh here is another system: Landwarrior
http://www.mindjack.com/feature/landwarrior.html

Which is what we will be using.

Here is JEDI:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/04/19/jedi.soldier/index.html
Possible successor to Landwarrior.