NationStates Jolt Archive

I watched a show on the History Channel about Benjamin Franklin...and it said quite frankly that he loved the whores, and just whores the less fortunate dirty whores, mainly french.

See one of America's most intelligent and influential founding father was a proud advocate for free sex and loose women, oh and beer also beer..

Damn I love this country!

See one of America's most intelligent and influential founding father was a proud advocate for free sex and loose women, oh and beer also beer..
And explosives, don't forget that. Makes you wonder where it all went wrong.

And Franklin most certainly "tapped more keg than Samuel Adams", I have expert historical testimony on the part of one Stephen Colbert to this effect.

And explosives, don't forget that. Makes you wonder where it all went wrong.

And Franklin most certainly "tapped more keg than Samuel Adams", I have expert historical testimony on the part of one Stephen Colbert to this effect.


But honestly, I just wouldn't feel right turning up a big cold bottle of Ben Franklin's Philly Lager.

Plus we wouldn't have the "Sam Jackson" Chappelle skit which would truly leave a void in many a life.

Just because he was a famous and influential historic figure doesn't necessarily make him an ideal role model. Jefferson knocked up one of his slaves. So? They were men, and men with needs, and men without electronic equipment with multiple buttons to keep them out of mischief!

But honestly, I just wouldn't feel right turning up a big cold bottle of Ben Franklin's Philly Lager.

Plus we wouldn't have the "Sam Jackson" Chappelle skit which would truly leave a void in many a life.

Let's face it --- without Dave Chappelle, we'd be living in a void.

Just because he was a famous and influential historic figure doesn't necessarily make him an ideal role model. Jefferson knocked up one of his slaves. So? They were men, and men with needs, and men without electronic equipment with multiple buttons to keep them out of mischief!


It's the fact that they didn't have people paid to make their mistakes disappear that is the beauty of it all. I mean this country was founded on sex, tobacco, beer, and illegitimate children, and noone cared these people were still icons, Clinton banged his intern and see what happens? And if you leave anyone man in close quarters with a halfway attractive women for an extended period of time and something doesn't transpire then something went wrong somewhere

Just because he was a famous and influential historic figure doesn't necessarily make him an ideal role model.
No, the fact that he was a crazy inventor who could hold his liquor and knew where to find French women of loose morals makes him ideal.
They were men, and men with needs, and men without electronic equipment with multiple buttons to keep them out of mischief!
You say "mischief" like its a bad thing . . .

It's the fact that they didn't have people paid to make their mistakes disappear that is the beauty of it all. I mean this country was founded on sex, tobacco, beer, and illegitimate children, and noone cared these people were still icons, Clinton banged his intern and see what happens? And if you leave anyone man in close quarters with a halfway attractive women for an extended period of time and something doesn't transpire then something went wrong somewhere

True, true! Feel sorry for Clinton, he was good to Ireland, and the Irish people, helping us come to an agreement on Northern Ireland. Just because he liked having his balls licked by his intern isn't reason for impeachment. There were a lot worse than him, Bush should have been gently but firmly nudged out the door a long time ago.

Also, agree about the man in the presence of a woman, but only if he doesn't have an electronic device with a lot of buttons on it. A Nintendo DS or PSP will do nicely. If my hubbie's anything to go by, libido goes out the window in the presence of silicon and solder!

There were a lot worse than him, Bush should have been gently but firmly nudged out the door a long time ago.

Amen!




Also, agree about the man in the presence of a woman, but only if he doesn't have an electronic device with a lot of buttons on it. A Nintendo DS or PSP will do nicely. If my hubbie's anything to go by, libido goes out the window in the presence of silicon and solder!

A man after my own heart.

You say "mischief" like its a bad thing . . .

Wouldn't say 'bad' necessarily. Only 'bad' for him if he arrived home to an irate wife. Mischief is all well and good for a single man with the time and energy and lack of nagging that goes along with having a little lady at home. Plus, the idea of a whole bunch of kids showing up on his door step calling him 'Pa' can't be an attractive thought

Just because he was a famous and influential historic figure doesn't necessarily make him an ideal role model. Jefferson knocked up one of his slaves. So? They were men, and men with needs, and men without electronic equipment with multiple buttons to keep them out of mischief!
I don't see how Ben Franklin being a skirt-chasing party beast makes him a non-ideal role model -- but I'm a bit defensive of Ben. He's my favorite American. As far as I'm concerned, Ben Franklin stands as proof positive that science and technology geeks don't have to be pasty, sexless losers hiding in windowless labs or their parents' basements. If I had a kid who was massively into science AND massively into romance AND massively into having a good time with friends AND massively into making money AND massively into making a difference in the world -- well, hell, I'd pretty much have all my parenting bases covered, wouldn't I?


PS, just because it's a pet peeve: "whoremonger" means "pimp." Franklin didn't pimp whores. He used them, but that would make him a "john" in modern slang. I don't know what the 18th century equivalent of "john" was.

A man after my own heart.
OK, sorry, yep, 'fraid so! Drived me demented! Ever try to get your gf's attention when she's in the middle of a phone call to her best friend who's just broken up with her man and she's in need of a bitching session. Just like that

Wouldn't say 'bad' necessarily. Only 'bad' for him if he arrived home to an irate wife. Mischief is all well and good for a single man with the time and energy and lack of nagging that goes along with having a little lady at home. Plus, the idea of a whole bunch of kids showing up on his door step calling him 'Pa' can't be an attractive thought


His "irate" wife, who hadn't seen him for 7 years wrote to him after she suffered a stroke while he was in Paris winning over the King to our cause in the Revoltionary War and told him that she couldn't bare to live any longer without him by her side, Well lets just say he stuck around won over the Kind helped win the war and ceased to commit adultery due to lack of wife.

I don't see how Ben Franklin being a skirt-chasing party beast makes him a non-ideal role model -- but I'm a bit defensive of Ben. He's my favorite American. As far as I'm concerned, Ben Franklin stands as proof positive that science and technology geeks don't have to be pasty, sexless losers hiding in windowless labs or their parents' basements. If I had a kid who was massively into science AND massively into romance AND massively into having a good time with friends AND massively into making money AND massively into making a difference in the world -- well, hell, I'd pretty much have all my parenting bases covered, wouldn't I?


PS, just because it's a pet peeve: "whoremonger" means "pimp." Franklin didn't pimp whores. He used them, but that would make him a "john" in modern slang. I don't know what the 18th century equivalent of "john" was.


True true, and I'm speaking as a scientist myself! But would you REALLY want your freakishly genius son picking up cheap french whore in this day and age?!? Fine to romance, skirt chasing, and party beast, but find at least a cleaner, safer way to do things! Then again, it's doubtful STD's ever crossed his mind...

His "irate" wife, who hadn't seen him for 7 years wrote to him after she suffered a stroke while he was in Paris winning over the King to our cause in the Revoltionary War and told him that she couldn't bare to live any longer without him by her side, Well lets just say he stuck around won over the Kind helped win the war and ceased to commit adultery due to lack of wife.

Nice guy then! Very family oriented!

I watched a show on the History Channel about Benjamin Franklin...and it said quite frankly that he loved the whores, and just whores the less fortunate dirty whores, mainly french.

See one of America's most intelligent and influential founding father was a proud advocate for free sex and loose women, oh and beer also beer..

Damn I love this country!
ROFLMAO! Me too! Me too! :D

True true, and I'm speaking as a scientist myself! But would you REALLY want your freakishly genius son picking up cheap french whore in this day and age?!? Fine to romance, skirt chasing, and party beast, but find at least a cleaner, safer way to do things! Then again, it's doubtful STD's ever crossed his mind...
Well, when it comes to cheap french whores, I would hope that, as a parent, I would have taught my son the principle that, if he makes his cheap french bed, he'll have to lie in it, cheap french bugs and all, and not come crying to me with his itches. In other words, any son of mine would carry condoms in his wallet.

Besides, whores in Franklin's day were really not that much filthier than "ladies," physically at least. They were just more available. If old Ben were to return today, being the freakish genius that he was, I daresay he'd be able to suss the current scene and adjust his lusts accordingly.

And explosives, don't forget that. Makes you wonder where it all went wrong.

And Franklin most certainly "tapped more keg than Samuel Adams", I have expert historical testimony on the part of one Stephen Colbert to this effect.
That was a fantastic interview.

Colbert: So is it true you died of syphylis?
Franklin: No, I died of pleurisy. It's a lung disease.
Colbert: So you died from syphylis of the lung.

Colbert is hilarious

PS, just because it's a pet peeve: "whoremonger" means "pimp." Franklin didn't pimp whores. He used them, but that would make him a "john" in modern slang. I don't know what the 18th century equivalent of "john" was.

a man

God old Ben, he was a man's man.

a man
Ah, thanks. :D

PS, just because it's a pet peeve: "whoremonger" means "pimp." Franklin didn't pimp whores. He used them, but that would make him a "john" in modern slang. I don't know what the 18th century equivalent of "john" was.
actually it means both pimp and john.

and just because i like you so much, i looked it up in the OED. (more of a bother than it seems because i have the one volume edition and have lost the magnifying glass that came with)

its singularly unhelpful on this issue

a whoremonger is one who has dealings with whores, one who practices whoredom, a fornicator, a letcher.

PS, just because it's a pet peeve: "whoremonger" means "pimp." Franklin didn't pimp whores. He used them, but that would make him a "john" in modern slang. I don't know what the 18th century equivalent of "john" was.

Actually, according to the 1828 Webster Dictionary which directly translates a lot of Bible lexicon, whoremonger means "whoremaster" which is translated as one who practices lewdness. Not as a pimp as one might suspect.

I'd imagine that an 18th century john was called "sir", or "m'lord" or "bloke" or anything else, given the prevalence of prostitution. Why did we ever let the Puritans take control?

Franklin was a member of the Hellfire Club -- hard to get more debauched than that in his day. The phrase he used in Poor Richard's Almanac for pleasurable sex (as opposed to procreative sex) was "using venery", as in "one should be judicious in his use of venery...."

Venery --> venerial. I love my language. I love Ben, too. He an Jefferson are my founding heroes.

actually it means both pimp and john.

and just because i like you so much, i looked it up in the OED. (more of a bother than it seems because i have the one volume edition and have lost the magnifying glass that came with)

its singularly unhelpful on this issue

a whoremonger is one who has dealings with whores, one who practices whoredom, a fornicator, a letcher.
I stand corrected.

Actually, according to the 1828 Webster Dictionary which directly translates a lot of Bible lexicon, whoremonger means "whoremaster" which is translated as one who practices lewdness. Not as a pimp as one might suspect.
I stand corrected twice.

So we all loved a man with a sense of humor and sex to match? Though it is a little odd.

I'd imagine that an 18th century john was called "sir", or "m'lord" or "bloke" or anything else, given the prevalence of prostitution. Why did we ever let the Puritans take control?

Franklin was a member of the Hellfire Club -- hard to get more debauched than that in his day. The phrase he used in Poor Richard's Almanac for pleasurable sex (as opposed to procreative sex) was "using venery", as in "one should be judicious in his use of venery...."

Venery --> venerial. I love my language. I love Ben, too. He an Jefferson are my founding heroes.
They're my favorites, too, but I do love most of the old boys. I love that Franklin was just so into being alive, so into enjoying himself, and he really was a remarkably bullshit-free person.

I love Jefferson mostly for being such an eccentric, out-of-control intellectual. Everything he did was some kind of life experiment. Monticello is like a diarama of his mind -- his experiments with breeding Dutch black hollyhocks; rigging the entrance hall clock to tell the days of the week, only miscalculating the rate of movement and rather than recalibrating the clock he just cut a hole in the floor so you have to go into the cellar to find out if it's Friday or Saturday; and best of all, his insistence on installing unglazed skylights in the dome over his bedroom based solely on reading about such windows somewhere in Italy, and then having to keep reinstalling them to find the right angle to keep rain from wicking into the house. He was such a nut. No wonder he was bankrupt by the time he left the White House.

And then there was my third fave, Hamilton, who so smart and so competent and so effective, I believe he could crush Donald Trump and Bill Gates today, in the same week. Plus he was one of those arrogant bastards who thought everyone else was stupid and slow, and he used to write letters complaining about what idiots all the Continental Congress delegates were. He was destined to be shot in a duel. No other possible end for him.

Oh, man, if only we had guys like that in government today.

They're my favorites, too, but I do love most of the old boys. I love that Franklin was just so into being alive, so into enjoying himself, and he really was a remarkably bullshit-free person.

I love Jefferson mostly for being such an eccentric, out-of-control intellectual. Everything he did was some kind of life experiment. Monticello is like a diarama of his mind -- his experiments with breeding Dutch black hollyhocks; rigging the entrance hall clock to tell the days of the week, only miscalculating the rate of movement and rather than recalibrating the clock he just cut a hole in the floor so you have to go into the cellar to find out if it's Friday or Saturday; and best of all, his insistence on installing unglazed skylights in the dome over his bedroom based solely on reading about such windows somewhere in Italy, and then having to keep reinstalling them to find the right angle to keep rain from wicking into the house. He was such a nut. No wonder he was bankrupt by the time he left the White House.

And then there was my third fave, Hamilton, who so smart and so competent and so effective, I believe he could crush Donald Trump and Bill Gates today, in the same week. Plus he was one of those arrogant bastards who thought everyone else was stupid and slow, and he used to write letters complaining about what idiots all the Continental Congress delegates were. He was destined to be shot in a duel. No other possible end for him.

Oh, man, if only we had guys like that in government today.

i have come to admire george washington. he was born to a slaveholding family, he married a rich widow with many slaves. he was sure of his own superiority and of the vast inferiority of the black race.

and yet his experience with commanding black troops in the revolution (they saved his army at brooklyn, a black man saved his brothers life and they assured victory at yorktown) convinced him that slavery was wrong. he couldnt quite work out how to free his own slaves in his lifetime (most of the slaves at mt vernon were owned by martha not him, and he didnt want to do anything that would break up slave families) but he worked on several plans that might have worked if he had gotten any cooperation from his family.

Ben Franklin was a great man, a great self-promoter, and a great party animal! The only thing missing is that he’s not a member of the Kennedy family. :)

I read “Benjamin Franklin, an American Life” by Walter Isaacson. It’s a well-written biography, but does go a long way out of the way to attempt to dismiss any charges about him being the ladies man. Some historians really do have a problem with historical role models acting human.

i have come to admire george washington. he was born to a slaveholding family, he married a rich widow with many slaves. he was sure of his own superiority and of the vast inferiority of the black race.

and yet his experience with commanding black troops in the revolution (they saved his army at brooklyn, a black man saved his brothers life and they assured victory at yorktown) convinced him that slavery was wrong. he couldnt quite work out how to free his own slaves in his lifetime (most of the slaves at mt vernon were owned by martha not him, and he didnt want to do anything that would break up slave families) but he worked on several plans that might have worked if he had gotten any cooperation from his family.
Yes, and of course, we must remember that he thought he was superior to everyone, not just black people. His snobbery was a byword even among his friends and admirers. I think it makes him seem perversely cute.

Many of the southern Revolutionaries, particularly the ones who, like Washington, were Freemasons, a group that advocated erasing class boundaries, had serious problems with the slave economy they worked in. We may wish they had broken it up in their own time, but I give them credit for wrestling with it at all and as much as they did.

I think Jefferson gets a bum rap for his slave record as well. He gets a lot of blame for his slave mistress, but we must remember that there was no hint of any such scandal about him until several years after his wife died (he never remarried). By several accounts of his own time, his affair with this slave woman (I can't remember her name) was an open secret and it lasted for many years. I have seen no evidence that he did not support her and the child she bore him. From the letters and other sources I've read, I think there's a good chance that, if slavery had not existed and if inter-racial marriages had been permitted then, she might have become the second Mrs. Jefferson.

Yes, and of course, we must remember that he thought he was superior to everyone, not just black people. His snobbery was a byword even among his friends and admirers. I think it makes him seem perversely cute.

Many of the southern Revolutionaries, particularly the ones who, like Washington, were Freemasons, a group that advocated erasing class boundaries, had serious problems with the slave economy they worked in. We may wish they had broken it up in their own time, but I give them credit for wrestling with it at all and as much as they did.

I think Jefferson gets a bum rap for his slave record as well. He gets a lot of blame for his slave mistress, but we must remember that there was no hint of any such scandal about him until several years after his wife died (he never remarried). By several accounts of his own time, his affair with this slave woman (I can't remember her name) was an open secret and it lasted for many years. I have seen no evidence that he did not support her and the child she bore him. From the letters and other sources I've read, I think there's a good chance that, if slavery had not existed and if inter-racial marriages had been permitted then, she might have become the second Mrs. Jefferson.
sally hemmings.

she was his wifes half sister.

since sally wasnt free to decide her own fate, there is no way to know that if race relations had been different she would have had any interest in jefferson whatsoever. or maybe she would have become a great lady of the early republic.

american slavery was so creepy! many people today have half brothers and sisters but imagine finding out that your father has children that he keeps as slaves, that those slaves are your brothers and sisters. *shudder*

Should certainly hope he was, some of our very best leaders were womanizers.

yo yo yo! Philly represent yo! aww ye!!! Ben Daddy Pimp Phranky in da hizouse!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/philly/f7f869e5.jpg

sally hemmings.

she was his wifes half sister.

since sally wasnt free to decide her own fate, there is no way to know that if race relations had been different she would have had any interest in jefferson whatsoever. or maybe she would have become a great lady of the early republic.

american slavery was so creepy! many people today have half brothers and sisters but imagine finding out that your father has children that he keeps as slaves, that those slaves are your brothers and sisters. *shudder*
Thanks. I kept thinking it was Sally Hanson, and I knew I was wrong.

True, we can never know for certain, so it's just speculation. I'm merely suggesting that there was slightly more chance of a marriage between her and Jefferson than in other such situations. I base that only on the few personal observations of Jefferson's acquaintances as recorded in their letters and gossip about him and Sally Hemmings. It was apparently a bit more than just an affair. At least it was an affair that lasted a good long time. It just gets on my nerves that people denounce Jefferson as if he went about raping his slaves. Slavery was an abomination and atrocity, but within that hellish system, Jefferson and Washington were not among the villains. It may be a stain on their souls, but I don't think it should be a stain on their histories.

yo yo yo! Philly represent yo! aww ye!!! Ben Daddy Pimp Phranky in da hizouse!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/philly/f7f869e5.jpg
yeah, yo, whatever. It kind of pisses me off that Franklin is so tied in with Philly. He's from Boston, for crying out loud. But Boston -- those dumbasses -- couldn't keep him here then and nowadays -- can you believe it -- they get all snippy and hissy about him. Like they try to pretend he's not important. Jerks. I hate this town.

Except that Ben Franklin still lives here in Boston. We've got this fabulous impersonator. He doesn't work for anybody. He just happens to be the spitting image of Franklin, so he dresses the part, every single day. It's kind of freaky, because he's an old man and he really looks like Ben Franklin. You get on the subway and there he is -- Ben Franklin -- in the clothes and everything -- reading the newspaper. Weird. Cool.

yeah, yo, whatever. It kind of pisses me off that Franklin is so tied in with Philly. He's from Boston, for crying out loud. But Boston -- those dumbasses -- couldn't keep him here then and nowadays -- can you believe it -- they get all snippy and hissy about him. Like they try to pretend he's not important. Jerks. I hate this town.

Except that Ben Franklin still lives here in Boston. We've got this fabulous impersonator. He doesn't work for anybody. He just happens to be the spitting image of Franklin, so he dresses the part, every single day. It's kind of freaky, because he's an old man and he really looks like Ben Franklin. You get on the subway and there he is -- Ben Franklin -- in the clothes and everything -- reading the newspaper. Weird. Cool.
Silly Boston! When I was in Boston we ate at this.. building.. a pigeon flew in and took one of my fries.. :eek: Bostoners are freaks.

This time when I was in Philly we drove past a Ben impersonater talking on a pay phone, all dressed up in costume... I just had to laugh.. God I love Philly.

Wow...>.>
I go to Boston every year now....it rocks. They aren't weird.