NationStates Jolt Archive

I was on a message board on imdb and i found this post on V for Vendetta. It's by a man named Gary Sundt and I think he does make an excellent and provoking point.



There was a time in the 1950s when Americans were afraid. Afraid to speak, write, illustrate, or even think of critiquing a certain Senator Joseph McCarthy. In this time, people were accused of being a communist, to be against the American way of life. The Red Scare! What an epidemic that was! America was sick with it. Sick with fear. Because of that fear, the aforementioned Senator McCarthy took hold of America, and almost took away completely the freedoms that Americans were attempting to protect from communists in the first place. There was an iron fist over the United States.

Cut to the New Millennium. New technology. New president. New world.

Well, on September 11th, 2001, what was brought to Americans was a whole new fear.

This fear was something that, even though it had been an issue before, never seemed to worry anybody any more than "New Millennium Communists" did. That all changed when two 747 aircrafts slammed into the World Trade Center buildings. People watched as their fears were actualized. Whether you were wrapped around CNN's words and images of the planes hitting and the chaos that engulfed New York City, or you were one of those who watched on the streets of the Big Apple and wondered if you and everyone you loved was safe anymore, it changed you. It made you afraid. It made you vulnerable.

I, like most Americans, had no qualm with then allowing the Patriot Act to become the new American way of life. I didn’t know what it actually said, but they promised protection, and I wanted protection. Hell, I craved it. To feel safe. To keep myself, my family, my friends, my acquaintances, hell, people I didn't know under the watchful and secure wing of an invisible Eagle who would protect us all through thick and thin.

Who thought it wasn't an Eagle? It took years of watching and learning for me to even realize it. I now know what the Patriot Act has done. I now know that it isn't an Eagle's wing. It's a Vultures eye. And it's watching. It's waiting for us to be ourselves. Then the vulture will open its jaws and snap us up. Not now, but when we are afraid enough. When fear has blinded us enough. And if you think we aren't afraid, just look at what happened when a simple attempt to make port trade easier turned all Americans against everything...

“V for Vendetta” is the future. It is a glimpse at our path. If we look closely at the Patriot Act, we realize that those wiretaps are not necessarily illegal. America all stood behind and pushed this document. For protection. Because of fear. The government can now come in and put the black bag over your head, did you know that? They can accuse you of being a communist... er, I mean terrorist. We allow this. Because of fear. Because we are afraid. But, what are we more afraid of?

I am not saying "Down with Republicans!" I am not saying "Down with Democrats!" I am not suggesting that we screw the poor, the rich, the old, or the young. I ask America to wonder if maybe movies are an art form. And that in this piece of art can be found a reminder to Americans just how free we should be. Remember, Remember the 4th of July. Hell, even if you aren't American, know how free you are, or how free you should be. Terrorism isn't the answer, and that isn't what “V for Vendetta” is suggesting, and neither am I. But, whatever the process, just know the potential end result: Freedom.

Think now. Or Freedom WILL become a memory. Justice WILL be outlawed. Don't be afraid of terrorism or the Middle East. Don't be afraid of homosexuality. Don't be afraid of liberals or conservatives. And don't be afraid of race, poverty, abortions, or even life and death.

Be afraid of yellow-coated curfews. Be afraid of governments who tell you what to think. Be afraid of a world without art, where you don't have the chance to read, sing, write, draw, or watch something, and then form an opinion on it. Be afraid of lying news media. Be afraid of the memory of freedom. Be afraid of the Vulture, and accordingly, work toward seeing the Eagle.

What has happened has happened. We can't change that. But we can change the future.

- Gary Sundt http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/board/nest/38712407

Commendable. And, of course, i recommend the flick, which was recommended specifically to me by Sarkhaan (*bows*).

What the hell, this thread is as good as any to throw this in:
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/td/2006/td060325.gif

To show equality here is a counter article by Front Page magazine

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21621

To show equality here is a counter article by Front Page magazine

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21621
Yeah, nothing screams equality like a tasteful, tight, bosom-articulating flash-ad saying "the gear that liberals fear".
Sounds like someone choking one out. I'd lay off that a smidge, though, since it costs valuable brain cells, and the link is an example of too many strokes.

V for Vendetta is a glimpse at a potential path, much in the same way that Orwell's 1984 was a glimpse at a potential path (only less articulate, and far shinier). To say that the world of V is the path down which the US is heading is far, far, far too simple of a conclusion to draw.

To show equality here is a counter article by Front Page magazine

that's like demanding equality for the view that 2+2=5

V for Vendetta is a glimpse at a potential path, much in the same way that Orwell's 1984 was a glimpse at a potential path (only less articulate, and far shinier). To say that the world of V is the path down which the US is heading is far, far, far too simple of a conclusion to draw.

V's world is more of a glimpse into what things would be like had Germany won the second world war and their ideals had been spread than a potential path, because the movie's view of America as a civil war intanced nation is more than a far cry form possible,

V's world is more of a glimpse into what things would be like had Germany won the second world war

not according to alan moore

To show equality here is a counter article by Front Page magazine

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21621

Under religious Christian zealot Sutler, gays are rounded up, imprisoned, tortured, and executed. Ditto for any dissidents, any left-wing activists, anyone who dares speak out against or flout the Chancellor's actions. Tell that to the ACLU, which seems to be running legal policy in our country, these days, and its partner in crime, the Southern Poverty Law Center, the wealthiest "public interest" group in the U.S., to the tune of hundreds of millions. We don't see any prospect of them being rounded up by the government anytime soon, unfortunately.

And thus, with a pair of sentences, any point this article is trying to make can be thrown out the window. The author, in a single paragraph, makes it clear that they would be more than happy to live in a world such as that depicted in "V for Vendetta"...as long as it's her own opinions that hold power and quash dissent. :rolleyes:

And thus, with a pair of sentences, any point this article is trying to make can be thrown out the window. The author, in a single paragraph, makes it clear that they would be more than happy to live in a world such as that depicted in "V for Vendetta"...as long as it's her own opinions that hold power and quash dissent. :rolleyes:
Like i was saying, too precious few brain cells to function with. :(

And thus, with a pair of sentences, any point this article is trying to make can be thrown out the window. The author, in a single paragraph, makes it clear that they would be more than happy to live in a world such as that depicted in "V for Vendetta"...as long as it's her own opinions that hold power and quash dissent. :rolleyes:

hell, they can't even bring themselves to oppose a fictitious openly fascist state:

Overall, the most outrageous thing about "V" is the ending. Instead of vanquishing terror, all of Britain sides with the terrorist hero of this movie. They celebrate his murder of all the top officials in government, his blowing up of the Houses of Parliament and other government buildings.

Terrorists and terrorism are the heroes, the government fighting them and trying to keep us safe are the enemy.

This is the glorious revolution? Osama Bin Laden must be very proud.

rightwingers scare me

rightwingers scare me
Ahh yes, agreed.

I'm not big on the whole forum deal, but I just saw the movie and figured I'd drop my 2 cents in...

Movie was decent, not as good as I was hoping, but I still enjoyed watching it. The point of the movie was blatent, and almost felt a bit dumbed down to make it enjoyable for the mainstream audience.

The portrayal of this world of the future was one of many paths I can see the world heading down, but lets face it, the Republicans are out of office in '08 unless the Democrats end up with another John Kerry type figure to completely blow the campaign. But anyways, how do you think the Democrats will ensure their victory? Promises to repeal the many things that Bush has done, such as the Patriot Act, and promising to get us out of Iraq...

The people are fed up, look at their approval ratings, they're screwed, and they know it. The people are also armed, Bush can't simply declare himself emporer without inciting revolt, and of course the general populance has no chance against trained soldiers, but remember that soldiers are also part of the general populance. The administration knows this, America will shift to the left until the problems that come with the left begin to return, and then it will pick up its things and move back to the right. It's always been this way, we've just shifted a bit further toward the authoritarian chunk of the Republican party than usual this time.

It's not as if it makes a difference, the government has always had wire taps, secret prisons, etc, this administration just did a crappy job of covering it up. Face the truth, and understand that there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats, and that they're both just representatives of the same corporations. They tell you how and what to think before you're even old enough to understand it. The left restricts bussiness, and the right opens up enough holes for the large corporations to get past them, all the while leaving small bussiness behind. The black bags have been pulled over our heads and we don't even realize it. Understand that they control the corporations, from the media to defence, distracting us with trivial debates while they get richer and richer. They rule through fear, whether it be fear of terrorism, or fear of a fascist future, wake up and realize that there is no longer any such thing as democracy in the West, that it has been replaced by corpratocracy.

Well that turned out longer than I expected, oh well[/end rant]

I'm not big on the whole forum deal, but I just saw the movie and figured I'd drop my 2 cents in...

Movie was decent, not as good as I was hoping, but I still enjoyed watching it. The point of the movie was blatent, and almost felt a bit dumbed down to make it enjoyable for the mainstream audience.

The portrayal of this world of the future was one of many paths I can see the world heading down, but lets face it, the Republicans are out of office in '08 unless the Democrats end up with another John Kerry type figure to completely blow the campaign. But anyways, how do you think the Democrats will ensure their victory? Promises to repeal the many things that Bush has done, such as the Patriot Act, and promising to get us out of Iraq...

The people are fed up, look at their approval ratings, they're screwed, and they know it. The people are also armed, Bush can't simply declare himself emporer without inciting revolt, and of course the general populance has no chance against trained soldiers, but remember that soldiers are also part of the general populance. The administration knows this, America will shift to the left until the problems that come with the left begin to return, and then it will pick up its things and move back to the right. It's always been this way, we've just shifted a bit further toward the authoritarian chunk of the Republican party than usual this time.

It's not as if it makes a difference, the government has always had wire taps, secret prisons, etc, this administration just did a crappy job of covering it up. Face the truth, and understand that there is no difference between the Republicans and Democrats, and that they're both just representatives of the same corporations. They tell you how and what to think before you're even old enough to understand it. The left restricts bussiness, and the right opens up enough holes for the large corporations to get past them, all the while leaving small bussiness behind. The black bags have been pulled over our heads and we don't even realize it. Understand that they control the corporations, from the media to defence, distracting us with trivial debates while they get richer and richer. They rule through fear, whether it be fear of terrorism, or fear of a fascist future, wake up and realize that there is no longer any such thing as democracy in the West, that it has been replaced by corpratocracy.

Well that turned out longer than I expected, oh well[/end rant]
Not bad for what is professed to be a first post here.
Welcome to NS.

Commendable. And, of course, i recommend the flick, which was recommended specifically to me by Sarkhaan (*bows*).
thats what I'm here for. Movie suggestions and hijacks and spam. Oh my.

thats what I'm here for. Movie suggestions and hijacks and spam. Oh my.
And i'm *supposed* to be here for my vocal contribution, i imagine ;)
Yes, i'll do it. I just don't get enough alone time of late for me to do it well.

if 200o's are the new 50's
cant wait for 2010 and the start of the new 60's

And i'm *supposed* to be here for my vocal contribution, i imagine ;)
Yes, i'll do it. I just don't get enough alone time of late for me to do it well.haha...yes, you are;)

ohh...we get StraughnJohn Silver alone time? I demand a pirate impression.

haha...yes, you are;)

ohh...we get StraughnJohn Silver alone time? I demand a pirate impression.
I was walking and it occurred to me that was the first thing i'd need to do.
What do you want to wager on guessing which line i'll use to do it?
Hint: I've mentioned the setting here before.

I was walking and it occurred to me that was the first thing i'd need to do.
What do you want to wager on guessing which line i'll use to do it?
Hint: I've mentioned the setting here before.
haha...since I have no idea..i'll wager this shiny new penny. (cut me some slack...its 2:30 haha)

haha...since I have no idea..i'll wager this shiny new penny. (cut me some slack...its 2:30 haha)
M'kay .... a penny (mostly zinc) ...
Another hint: it's on The Simpsons.

I was walking and it occurred to me that was the first thing i'd need to do.
What do you want to wager on guessing which line i'll use to do it?
Hint: I've mentioned the setting here before.
argh matey? or YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIP, or UNO, or freedom for my people you oppresive slores ?

M'kay .... a penny (mostly zinc) ...
Another hint: it's on The Simpsons.
haha...I know I've read you post things from the simpsons. So why can't I think of it?
*offers a shot of Cutty Sark for good measure*

wow...that takes on a whole new, slightly twisted, connotation on this forum.

argh matey? or YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIP, or UNO, or freedom for my people you oppresive slores ?
Battleship! Good answer! *knocks his head back to settle the thought*
Otherwise, no i wasn't thinking those. But thanks again for the battleship!

wow...that takes on a whole new, slightly twisted, connotation on this forum.
Not really TOO far to go, given the last couple of days' doozies ...
like The UN abassadorship's "Cheney's nipple" riff and that doozie about fellating Bush ...
and another one ...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10665805&postcount=12

and this one

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10659616&postcount=91

That frontpage article is right! Damn that movie! How dare it imply that a people rebel against a totalitarian government? By force even? How incredibly un-American...

if 200o's are the new 50's
cant wait for 2010 and the start of the new 60's
Start growing your hair and sideburns now and dust off your 'keep on trucking' buttons.

Seriously though, It's just a movie. People need to calm down.

That frontpage article is right! Damn that movie! How dare it imply that a people rebel against a totalitarian government? By force even? How incredibly un-American...
Damn pinko liberal terrorists!

V's world is more of a glimpse into what things would be like had Germany won the second world war and their ideals had been spread than a potential path, because the movie's view of America as a civil war intanced nation is more than a far cry form possible,
No, V depicts what the grim future of Iran might be like, provided they lose all sense of public sanity and start trying to make superbeings. For the Civilized Western world (and, out of charity, I think we can submit to include the US under that heading) Sulter-esque leaders will be limited to getting 2-3% of the North Dakota vote.
The Wacowskis' "future government" is a parody of a charicature, with no bearing on reality.

For the Civilized Western world (and, out of charity, I think we can submit to include the US under that heading) Sulter-esque leaders will be limited to getting 2-3% of the North Dakota vote.

like, for example, in italy, germany, spain, greece, the former czechoslovakia, austria, etc?

can't happen here, my ass.

I was on a message board on imdb and i found this post on V for Vendetta. It's by a man named Gary Sundt and I think he does make an excellent and provoking point.

< mega-snip >

Be afraid of yellow-coated curfews. Be afraid of governments who tell you what to think. Be afraid of a world without art, where you don't have the chance to read, sing, write, draw, or watch something, and then form an opinion on it. Be afraid of lying news media. Be afraid of the memory of freedom. Be afraid of the Vulture, and accordingly, work toward seeing the Eagle.
Not to put too fine a point on this rant, but ... unadulterated bull-frakking- shit! :headbang:

like, for example, in italy, germany, spain, greece, the former czechoslovakia, austria, etc?
Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, and co didn't run on a Sulter-esque Christian agenda. They grabbed power by appealing to a belief in former nationalistic glories (ie, Hitler's volk or Mussolini's Roman empire) that might salvage their country and rescue it from Communism.
Britain, however, hasn't had a strong Christian cultural element in some time, and there is no major move to return to it. In the US, neocons are rapidly running out of wiggle room as the people start to see their utopia failing to materialise (much like the early 20th century Socialist and Fascist revolutions fell).
Finally (and most importantly) whereas Hitler and Mussolini had national disenfranshisement to play with (WWI wasn't kind to either nation), Britain has had no such recent failings. Hitler also had a fist full of working civil, martial and economic policies that restablized the country (autobahn, repairing the economy, cutting the Allies extortion payments off) while Sultner offers no justification for his purges and seems to have no concept of how to rule. Where Hitler offered fear of the present and hope for a new age, Sultner offered only desperate paranoia without even the vaguest attempt to find logical ground. He was a joke, a parody of parodies who couldn't get a Managerial position at McDonalds, let alont the 80% vote he allegedly got in Britain.

Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, and co didn't run on a Sulter-esque Christian agenda. They grabbed power by appealing to a belief in former nationalistic glories (ie, Hitler's volk or Mussolini's Roman empire) that might salvage their country and rescue it from Communism. Britain, however, hasn't had a strong Christian cultural element in some time, and there is no major move to return to it. In the US, neocons are rapidly running out of wiggle room as the people start to see their utopia failing to materialise (much like the early 20th century Socialist and Fascist revolutions fell).
Finally (and most importantly) whereas Hitler and Mussolini had national disenfranshisement to play with (WWI wasn't kind to either nation), Britain has had no such recent failings. Hitler also had a fist full of working civil, martial and economic policies that restablized the country (autobahn, repairing the economy, cutting the Allies extortion payments off) while Sultner offers no justification for his purges and seems to have no concept of how to rule. Where Hitler offered fear of the present and hope for a new age, Sultner offered only desperate paranoia without even the vaguest attempt to find logical ground. He was a joke, a parody of parodies who couldn't get a Managerial position at McDonalds, let alont the 80% vote he allegedly got in Britain.

It was my understanding that many of the WWII-era fascist states in Europe often used Catholicism as a justification for their rule ... and just because Britain hasn't had a strong Christian cultural element recently doesn't mean it's impossible for them to regain one. You just said in the previous sentence that Mussolini used the glory of the Roman Empire to seize power; seems that's a little LESS recent than the height of Christian influence in Britain.
Anyway, I heard from my history teacher that some Britons were expecting the return of King Arthur when the Germans invaded; not sure if I could confirm it for you, but that's certainly a reach into the past.

At any rate, the movie doesn't really go into detail about how the Norsefire party gets power; it makes some implications that "America's war" spread to reach them in Britain, and then justifies the 80% vote with chemical terrorist attacks or something of that sort. The rest is left to your imagination. After all, the movie has considerably less than two hours to establish the setting, and I'm sure it would be much less popular if it resembled the history channel (as the Wacowskis no doubt knew).

Finally (and most importantly) whereas Hitler and Mussolini had national disenfranshisement to play with (WWI wasn't kind to either nation), Britain has had no such recent failings. Hitler also had a fist full of working civil, martial and economic policies that restablized the country (autobahn, repairing the economy, cutting the Allies extortion payments off) while Sultner offers no justification for his purges and seems to have no concept of how to rule. Where Hitler offered fear of the present and hope for a new age, Sultner offered only desperate paranoia without even the vaguest attempt to find logical ground. He was a joke, a parody of parodies who couldn't get a Managerial position at McDonalds, let alont the 80% vote he allegedly got in Britain.

i don't think we watched the same movie

Not to put too fine a point on this rant, but ... unadulterated bull-frakking- shit! :headbang:
How the f*ck is anything you included in the snip bullsh*t? How? Do the honour of explaining that, per favore?

Not to put too fine a point on this rant, but ... unadulterated bull-frakking- shit! :headbang:

You lost a lot of the respect I had for you with this comment...unless you care to elaborate? :confused: