NationStates Jolt Archive

I couldn't really do this in a poll form, but I wanted to run this by y'all. Let's keep on topic, too (I know how hard that is for some of you!)!

So, what is your definition of a man, excluding anatomy?

To me, a real man is one who don't have to rely on others for decision-making, whose wife and kids can look to him for security and guidance without fear of him being unfaithful and unloving (meaning, he is more concerned with his family's spiritual and emotional well-being above padding the bank account or having the "un-necessary" material things). A real man is sure of himself, and isn't afraid to admit he is wrong; and helpless to save his eternal soul.

Ok, it's late and my brain is fried after a LOOOOOOONG day. Pitch in!

To quote for you:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Religion aside, because, frankly I am not religious. I pretty much agree. A real man takes care of his family and himself. He's not afraid to be loving. He doesn't feel the need to be "macho". He's not afraid if his wife and kids disagree with him. Basically he's kind, compassionate, secure in himself, unthreatened by others, not intimidated by emotion and able to look at people as individuals not as members of some stereotypical group.

So, what is your definition of a man, excluding anatomy?


Someone who can cook, sew, clean, and take care of children, and run every single aspect of a household without ever once having to rely on a woman.

In short, I am a man.

I'm not sure about Ted Nugent.

A human or a manly man?

A man is somebody who works hard and stimulates the economy through somewhat unnecessary and vain purchases, and who teaches his children to do the same.
Also, he takes every opportunity to get laid as long as it doesn’t unreasonably put himself or his finances at risk.

A man is someone who has a willy.

A man is someone who has a willy.

He said excluding anatomy.

I know, they always disqualify the most logical answers.

im sorry, a man is a person with male genetalia. the rest is society

well ok in certain cases i can be convinced that someone who lacks the required parts has a mental identification so strong that they are a "man in a woman's body" but ill take those on a case by case basis (since someone might be lying to me about it eh?)

whether he is a takecharge macho fool or a hide in the corner wimp, he is still a man.

A man is something death goats eat

A man is someone who has a willy.

Willy Nelson?

He said excluding anatomy.

I know, they always disqualify the most logical answers.

im sorry but there is no other reasonable answer

otherwise his question really is "how must a man behave in order for me to respect him?"

im sorry but there is no other reasonable answer

otherwise his question really is "how must a man behave in order for me to respect him?"

Actually I'm trying to determine just how deep anatomy goes. If it bridges into Genetics, then there is no good answer, but if it doesn't, then we can reasonably say that a man is a member of the species Homo Sapiens who has two different sex chromosomes, commonly referred to as 'X' and 'Y'.

A human or a manly man?
It appears we are talking about manly men, so disregard my question.

Anyway, a man (well, any one who is an adult) is someone who doesn't need others to follow, support, or lead him. If you rely on the charity of others or needing anothers guidance is a sign of childishness.

Actually I'm trying to determine just how deep anatomy goes.
Well men tend to have fewer corpus callosom fibers in their brain, which is why women tend to be better multi-taskers, and has something to do with them tending to be more empathetic too.

Well men tend to have fewer corpus callosom fibers in their brain, which is why women tend to be better multi-taskers, and has something to do with them tending to be more empathetic too.

If I wasn't working on something else, I would take offense at that statement.

If I wasn't working on something else, I would take offense at that statement.
Too bad it’s a scientific fact. Notice I said “tend to.” It is not universal.

Too bad it’s a scientific fact. Notice I said “tend to.” It is not universal.

I take it you didn't notice my satire.

Actually I'm trying to determine just how deep anatomy goes. If it bridges into Genetics, then there is no good answer, but if it doesn't, then we can reasonably say that a man is a member of the species Homo Sapiens who has two different sex chromosomes, commonly referred to as 'X' and 'Y'.
no
if there is anything less worth debating than how a man should behave to be considered "A MAN" its what genetic qualifications he must have.

i covered it in the second part of my original post, if you identify as a man and so desire to BE a man that you would get the surgery if you could afford it, then thats good enough for me. youre a man.

no
if there is anything less worth debating than how a man should behave to be considered "A MAN" its what genetic qualifications he must have.

i covered it in the second part of my original post, if you identify as a man and so desire to BE a man that you would get the surgery if you could afford it, then thats good enough for me. youre a man.

And the thread evolves....

I take it you didn't notice my satire.
Guess not.

A real man is not afraid of anything, and if he is, then he carries a gun to kill it with.

A real man doesn't want to wear that sweater his girlfriend got him (sorry ladies, purple is no straight man's color).

A real man can wear a flannel shirt and a business suit, and look natural in both.

A real man doesn't hit women. He beats up the jerk that does.

A real man will grow a full beard at some point in his life.

A real man will always own at least one dog.

A real man does his own lawn, car, and home maintenance.

A real man does not feel threatened by homosexuality (more women for him!).

And, most importantly, a real man will always put taking care of his family ahead of all other goals.

excluding anatomy a 'man' is an invention, a social construct devoloped in opposition to 'woman' through the tens of thousands of years of human history, brought to extremes in the last 200 years, and now in the process of deconstruction.

A real man to me is...

Independent
Honest
Mentally tough
Takes responsibility
Stands up for what he believes in without forcing his views on others
Doesn't have to show off how manly he is

Being manly has nothing to do with strutting around in a flannel jacket, speaking in a gruff voice boasting about his SUV. Nor does a real man have to be the 1950's stereotype of 'Father knows best'.

A real man lives in the 21st century and treats men with respect, and women as equals, with respect.

Edit: And responding to arguably anatomy related differences between genders.

'Men have fewer corpus collosum fibers' is a fact. Any conclusions you draw from it are just theories, and it's a bit convenient that your conclusions happen to be consistent with gender stereotypes.

But, even if there is a tendency, it's still not an excuse to make the leap from judging groups based on averages to judging individuals in those groups. Many people cite generalizations such as those to justify giving differential treatment to members of different groups. (Not that I'm saying anyone here is...just, some people do.)

Guess not.

My humour is lost on the masses.

"It's smart. It's a smart line, and a smart crowd will appreciate it. And, I'm not gonna dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!" - George

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!

A real man doesn't hit women. He beats up the jerk that does.
Double standard, much?

Not really, because if a real man sticks up for people, that includes women.

A man is a human male with an age greater than or equal to 18 years.

Not really, because if a real man sticks up for people, that includes women.
No, you said that you can't hit a woman, period, and then proscribe attacking certain kinds of men. Double standard.

excluding anatomy a 'man' is an invention, a social construct devoloped in opposition to 'woman' through the tens of thousands of years of human history, brought to extremes in the last 200 years, and now in the process of deconstruction.

So the psychological and emotional differences between men and women are grounded purely in society and have nothing to do with, say, increased testosterone, or any of the other hundreds of minute but dramatic genetic differences between male and female dna? I mean, c'mon... :confused:

My humour is lost on the masses.

"It's smart. It's a smart line, and a smart crowd will appreciate it. And, I'm not gonna dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!" - George

I got it. :p Not a multitasker, eh?

All silly posturing aside, a man is anyone who identifies themselves witha sense of being male in gender. Anatomy, biology, personality, and sexuality be damned, because they only allow for more judgemental nonsense.

If you want to ask what makes a good person, I suppose that's a different question altogether.

What makes a man?
Is it the woman in his arms,
just cuz she's got big titties?
Or is it the way that he fights everyday?
Nah, it’s probably the titties!

Sorry, couldnt help it.

"What is a man?" in entirely dependent on your societal framework.
The behaviour that constitutes appropriate 'manly' behavour varies greatly.

Basically it takes maturity to be a man. Accepting personal responsibility for ones life and actions. Standing up for what you believe in, while respecting others for doing the same. Not be too arrogant or egotistical to admit that he is wrong. Put his obligations before his desires. Etc. etc.

A Man is a confident, driven personality that you may shake hands with or kill.

What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason.
In form and movement how express and admirable.
In action how like an angel, in aprehension how like a god.

A Man is a confident, driven personality that you may shake hands with or kill.
But killing is so messy! How about I just ridicule him until he develops an eating disorder?

So the psychological and emotional differences between men and women are grounded purely in society and have nothing to do with, say, increased testosterone, or any of the other hundreds of minute but dramatic genetic differences between male and female dna? I mean, c'mon... :confused:

no, the strict dichotomy between 'man' and 'woman' is a social construction. everyone has different psychological and emotional makeups dependent on many things besides dna and brain chemical levels. it has just been convenient up to now to lump people with one overall appearence into one group and the other into another while ignoring the vast similarities in appearence and character of individuals between groups and emphasizing differences between groups and similarities within them.

Short for Metropolitan Area Network, a data network designed for a town or city. In terms of geographic breadth, MANs are larger than local-area networks (LANs), but smaller than wide-area networks (WANs). MANs are usually characterized by very high-speed connections using fiber optical cable or other digital media.

MANs are usually characterized by very high-speed connections using fiber optical cable or other digital media.
Uh-huh. :p 'M.A.N.' no equal 'man'.

Religion aside, because, frankly I am not religious. I pretty much agree. A real man takes care of his family and himself. He's not afraid to be loving. He doesn't feel the need to be "macho". He's not afraid if his wife and kids disagree with him. Basically he's kind, compassionate, secure in himself, unthreatened by others, not intimidated by emotion and able to look at people as individuals not as members of some stereotypical group.

This is a good definition! I especially like the part about "he is not afraid if his wife and kids disagree with him." Good job!

Uh-huh. :p 'M.A.N.' no equal 'man'.
Then explain this cable thingy.

Then explain this cable thingy.
I don't have to as you did that. You're just ignorant of, or playfully ignoring, the difference between the acronymn 'M.A.N.' and the improper noun 'man'.
Then again, if you've somehow created a metaphor for the male reproductive organ through M.A.N. your efforts are lost on me.

A man is someone who can write his name in the snow and has the willingness to try. :)

Aww come on everyone knows a man is:
-The one who goes into a clean kitchen to get a snack and a beer and leaves once the room looks like armagedon and the fridge door is left open.
-Considers a case of beer is a household shopping essential along with bread, milk, etc.
-Figures that the washing machine has 1 setting for all items and they can all go in together, feelin that a hint of grey/blue/pink to the white items adds character.
-Considers that beer bottles/cans scattered around the place provides converstonal centre-pieces or useful ashtrays, paperweights, etc.
-Is a master at DIY in a modern-art type format with some interesting perspectives, ie, not really level.
-Is able to have several hundred projects on the go at all times, although completion is something that a man finds elusive.
-Considers natural body odour a sign of virility that should be shared with those closest and dearest.
-Is able to take the finest ingredients (that could produce a fabulous gourmet meal) and produce something that looks like baked beans in tomato sauce with a damn good dose of that special extra hot chilli sauce and a bit of cheese on top.
-Has a dress style that is based on what was found scattered around the floor or on furniture.
-Is a power tool demon, coveting hedge-trimmers even if he lives in a 6th floor apartment.

heck but we all love em for it:D

A Man™ is a person who have walked down enough roads in his life. And just how many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a Man?
The answer, my friends, is... Nah, I'm not going to give you that one, you'll have to figure it out for yourselves ;)

I take it you didn't notice my satire.
Of course she didn't. Women have less developed sense of humour than men.
It's a scientific fact!

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!

:D Your words are as empty as your soul. Mankind ill-needs a savior such as you! :D

As I mentioned in an earlier thread about manliness, a true man is not afraid to wear satin blue ribbons on his ugg boats, a silky blue kilt and get into a fight with a big ape.
To wit:
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/080652720X.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V56138536_.jpg

I got it. :p Not a multitasker, eh?

Thank you! :cool:

I have to concur with those posters who said that the only differences between men and women are biological. I can't think of one non-biological trait in men that isn't also admirable in women, and vice versa.

To me, a real man is one who don't have to rely on others for decision-making, whose wife and kids can look to him for security and guidance without fear of him being unfaithful and unloving (meaning, he is more concerned with his family's spiritual and emotional well-being above padding the bank account or having the "un-necessary" material things). A real man is sure of himself, and isn't afraid to admit he is wrong; and helpless to save his eternal soul.

So only heterosexuals can be men?

Too bad it’s a scientific fact. Notice I said “tend to.” It is not universal.

It appears to be a scientific debate, anyway. Some studies/literature claim that the trait/effect in question does not exist at all.


The relationship between known gender-specific biology (such as males having, in general, higher testosterone levels than females) and claims about behaviour (such as human males being more competitive) remains a highly contested one. Unusually, the scientific dispute in the case of the corpus callosum is not about the implications of biological difference, but whether such a difference actually exists. A substantial review paper (Bishop and Wahlsten, 1997) performed a meta-analysis of 49 studies and found, contrary to de Lacoste-Utamsing and Holloway, that males have a larger corpus callosum, a relationship that is true whether or not account is taken of larger male brain size. Bishop and Wahlstein found that "(t)he widespread belief that women have a larger splenium than men and consequently think differently is untenable."

There is no current evidence that difference in male and female cognitive behaviour can be explained by differences in the size of the corpus callosum.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum


It has been claimed that the human corpus callosum shows sex differences, and in particular that the splenium (the posterior portion) is larger in women than in men. Data collected before 1910 from cadavers indicate that, on average, males have larger brains than females and that the average size of their corpus callosum is larger. A meta-analysis of 49 studies published since 1980 reveals no significant sex difference in the size or shape of the splenium of the corpus callosum, whether or not an appropriate adjustment is made for brain size using analysis of covariance or linear regression. It is argued that a simple ratio of corpus callosum size to whole brain size is not an appropriate way to analyse the data and can create a false impression of a sex difference in the corpus callosum. The recent studies, most of which used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), confirm the earlier findings of larger average brain size and overall corpus callosum size for males. The widespread belief that women have a larger splenium than men and consequently think differently is untenable.


Bishop, K.M., & Wahlsten, D. (1997). Sex differences in the human corpus callosum: myth or reality? Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews. 21(5), 581–601.

So only heterosexuals can be men?
Of course he isn't. Read it again - Sexual orientation is not a factor. The requirement is only that he is a married man who have spawned progeny, and that they can live without fearing that he would ever be unfaithful... See? So if homosexuals are willing to repress their sexual urges and engage in just one heterosexual (childbearing) relationship for the rest of their lives, they can be Men™ as well!

...

Oh, wait, maybe you're on to something.
(And I won't even touch that "eternal soul"-thingy)

I couldn't really do this in a poll form, but I wanted to run this by y'all. Let's keep on topic, too (I know how hard that is for some of you!)!

So, what is your definition of a man, excluding anatomy?

To me, a real man is one who don't have to rely on others for decision-making, whose wife and kids can look to him for security and guidance without fear of him being unfaithful and unloving (meaning, he is more concerned with his family's spiritual and emotional well-being above padding the bank account or having the "un-necessary" material things). A real man is sure of himself, and isn't afraid to admit he is wrong; and helpless to save his eternal soul.

Ok, it's late and my brain is fried after a LOOOOOOONG day. Pitch in!

Yeah,

But REAL man also knows when he is in over his head and he gets help before he needs it so it doesnt place himslef in the failure circle unduely.

I dont know the spiritual thing--that is relative tothe reader so I wont touch that.

I real man, will never use the phrase "I'm a real man".

Being a provider is a real man's job so he had better be a little concerned about that bank account.

Of course if the woman is more capable of bringing down the dough then it is also his job to respect that she is better at that role and allow her to be so without resentment.

So only heterosexuals can be men?
Fass, he is speaking from his perspective.

Of course Homosexuals can be real men, even the flaming finger snapping raging fags that embarrass most of the homosexuals I know can.

The SHE is simply the place holder for a real man's partner---feel free to sustitute the pronoun with one important and representative of your particular lifestyle.

I couldn't really do this in a poll form, but I wanted to run this by y'all. Let's keep on topic, too (I know how hard that is for some of you!)!

So, what is your definition of a man, excluding anatomy?

To me, a real man is one who don't have to rely on others for decision-making, whose wife and kids can look to him for security and guidance without fear of him being unfaithful and unloving (meaning, he is more concerned with his family's spiritual and emotional well-being above padding the bank account or having the "un-necessary" material things). A real man is sure of himself, and isn't afraid to admit he is wrong; and helpless to save his eternal soul.

Ok, it's late and my brain is fried after a LOOOOOOONG day. Pitch in!
I guess as far as I am concerned a "real man" is a male human who isn't interested in trying to define himself based on his maleness. Any human, male or female, who feels the need to prove that they are worthy of their own gonads isn't a grown-up yet.

I believe humans are reflections of the labor they produce. :D

To me, a real man is one who don't have to rely on others for decision-making, whose wife and kids can look to him for...

So, a real man is heterosexual?

EDIT: Nevermind, Fass got there first.

A rational animal :D

A little humour there for those among you cultured enough to get the reference.

A rational animal :D

A featherless biped.

A featherless biped.

So, like a plucked ostrich? 'Coz that'd be awesome!

gender, aside from physiological polarity, is nothing but psychopolitical flimfalm. an awairness is an awairness is an awairness. and that is all that your true self is. you were born into the body you were born into and that's all that is.

there are perhapse responsibilities that come with being an awairness living in a tangable life form. these are not however directly related to gender or even life form outside of the very narrow context of procreation itself.

there is certainly a self intrest to avoid increasing ambient levels of harm and suffering causing aggressiveness.

man as in huMAN as in creative sentient being, certainly means being awaire of one's influences on one's environment and choosing one's priorities on the basis of one's preferences for the nature of that environment.

it also means creating and exploring, as these are the foundation of all that gratifies any truely awaire being.

then there is of course the concept of honor. in reality this is neither more nor less then putting these longer term intrests ahead of one's own immedieate comfort, convience or 'personal gain'.

that is where real honor legitimately lays, there and nowhere else.

=^^=
.../\...

So only heterosexuals can be men?
Of course gays can be real men. But they do need to punch more apes to prove it.

Fass, he is speaking from his perspective.

His heterosexist and heteronormative perspective, yes. The very perspective I challenge. So, duh!

Of course Homosexuals can be real men, even the flaming finger snapping raging fags that embarrass most of the homosexuals I know can.

I am not the least bit embarrassed. What I'm embarrassed of are those people so self-loathing to find "flaming finger snapping raging fags" embarrassing.

The SHE is simply the place holder for a real man's partner---feel free to sustitute the pronoun with one important and representative of your particular lifestyle.

Or he really is that much of a heterosexist that he thinks only those with a "wife and kids" can be men.

If a man can be measured by his testorone levels, then this guy is the maniest man who ever walked the man-earth:
http://freaks.davezilla.com/images/American_SunBear1.jpg

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who idenifies as a man is a man.

Sorry, a man is just a genetic distinction. What you are describing is a mature human being.

So, like a plucked ostrich? 'Coz that'd be awesome!

Congratulations: that joke* is only about 2,400 years old.


* although in the original it was a chicken, not an ostrich. So much for progress.

Congratulations: that joke* is only about 2,400 years old.


* although in the original it was a chicken, not an ostrich. So much for progress.

It is *blush* Whoops. I feel so unoriginal. But at least I'm developing the joke - chicken to ostrich isn't bad for only 2,400 years.

It is *blush* Whoops. I feel so unoriginal. But at least I'm developing the joke - chicken to ostrich isn't bad for only 2,400 years.

...to say nothing of the logical fallacy:


Man is a featherless biped,
A plucked ostrich is a featherless biped,
Ergo, A plucked ostrich is a man.

Compare with:

Steam trains whistle,
Socrates whistles,
Ergo, Socrates is a steam train.

I am not the least bit embarrassed. What I'm embarrassed of are those people so self-loathing to find "flaming finger snapping raging fags" embarrassing.I find that to be rather odd, myself. I mean, a homosexual man (in this instance we were talking about homosexual men) isn't the way the traditional-he-man-with-woman is, so it strikes me as total hypocrisy to expect that men should conform to gender roles.

I find that to be rather odd, myself. I mean, a homosexual man (in this instance we were talking about homosexual men) isn't the way the traditional-he-man-with-woman is, so it strikes me as total hypocrisy to expect that men should conform to gender roles.

It has a lot to do with internalised homophobia.

It has a lot to do with internalised homophobia.That's true, a lot of those men will consider themselves to be "straight acting", a quite obviously self-loathing term.

A man is someone who can take all the shit that life shovels out, make a compost heap of it, plant a garden in it, and realize a profit. A man is one who can "take the hits" and keep his sense of humor. A man is someone who realizes his strength and never, ever abuse or misuse it. A man is one who can love and comfort and care for and live for the ones he chooses to love, have them reject him, and still carry on without becoming bitter. A man is someone who never gives up, never surrenders, will never say "die," and ( when appropriate ) takes no prisoners.

DISCLAIMER: I realize that many women can do much the same things, but the original poster asked about men. :)

I don't have to as you did that. You're just ignorant of, or playfully ignoring, the difference between the acronymn 'M.A.N.' and the improper noun 'man'.
Then again, if you've somehow created a metaphor for the male reproductive organ through M.A.N. your efforts are lost on me.
I tried...