NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063255/

Kudos Italia.

*claps*

It's nice to know that someone in Europe still has guts to stand up for freedom.

I hope he speaks out in the Italian press and shames the Afghan people into abandoning the barbaric practice of executing people for their religious beliefs.

I hope he speaks out in the Italian pres and shames the Afghan people into abandoning the barbaric practice of executing people for their religious beliefs.

Amen to that.

Now he'll also get to know the wonders of wine and you know not be put to death that's probably also a plus.

*claps*
*joins Potarius in clapping.*

I hope he speaks out in the Italian pres and shames the Afghan people into abandoning the barbaric practice of executing people for their religious beliefs.

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.

I'm going to laugh if it was a clever ruse to become a terrorist bomber in a foreign country.
Not a happy laugh, mind you.. more the sarcastic, biting type.

"Oh, he's fine! Great guy! Converted to Christianity and almost died for it. We all love him."
"Allah allah! Jihad!" *boom*

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.
that's what the people wanted. however, the real test of Democracy is when the people want change, will the Government listen?

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.
Yeah. That's why I believe in the future if we must take military action against another nation we shouldn't try to occupy, rebuild and reform them, just punish them severely with our military might and make an example of them.

that's what the people wanted. however, the real test of Democracy is when the people want change, will the Government listen?

That's what I hate about Democracy. If 51% of the people want to oppress the shit out of the minority, then they get their wish (unless there are many checks and balances).

I hope he speaks out in the Italian press and shames the Afghan people into abandoning the barbaric practice of executing people for their religious beliefs.
And the odds of the latter happening are...?

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.

Why doesn't anyone understand that maybe the western media is making stuff up and finding minorities who yell and cheer that America is saving them from oppressors? I mean... maybe those gov'ts are in power for a reason.
I say it should be up to the people who live their to change their gov't, not the US. Dictating how to use Democracy is just stupid on too many levels.

Why doesn't anyone understand that maybe the western media is making stuff up and finding minorities who yell and cheer that America is saving them from oppressors? I mean... maybe those gov'ts are in power for a reason.
I say it should be up to the people who live their to change their gov't, not the US. Dictating how to use Democracy is just stupid on too many levels.

I agree with that, for the most part.

But I like to play the advocate of the little guy who's being oppressed by everyone else. I don't think it should be up to other nations to change one nation's government, but I do feel for the people who are in a very bad place because of said form of government.

That's what I hate about Democracy. If 51% of the people want to oppress the shit out of the minority, then they get their wish (unless there are many checks and balances).
yep... the other side of the spectrum is that 51% of the people are oppressed by the Minority.

and I hope there are Checks and Balances in place...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063255/

Kudos Italia.

Jolly Good Show!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063255/

Kudos Italia.
[ applauds Italia! ] Yayyy! :)

That's what I hate about Democracy. If 51% of the people want to oppress the shit out of the minority, then they get their wish (unless there are many checks and balances).

That's why it's folly to call the U.S. a Democracy, and why it is foolish to try and spread it.

The only thing democratic in the US is the way we elect our leaders. Everything else is bound by the Constitution.

The people of the Middle East want democracy so they can elect their own Islamic Republic.

They don't like freedom, or dictators. They don't want either freedom or Sharia forced on them. They want to choose Sharia on their own.

It's screwed up, but that's how it is.

yep... the other side of the spectrum is that 51% of the people are oppressed by the Minority.

and I hope there are Checks and Balances in place...

Depends on what you mean by "oppression". Is it "oppressive" to stop 51% of the people from taking away the rights of the other 49%?

That's why it's folly to call the U.S. a Democracy, and why it is foolish to try and spread it.

The only thing democratic in the US is the way we elect our leaders. Everything else is bound by the Constitution.

The people of the Middle East want democracy so they can elect their own Islamic Republic.

They don't like freedom, or dictators. They don't want either freedom or Sharia forced on them. They want to choose Sharia on their own.

It's screwed up, but that's how it is.

Sadly, that's true.

I agree with that, for the most part.

But I like to play the advocate of the little guy who's being oppressed by everyone else. I don't think it should be up to other nations to change one nation's government, but I do feel for the people who are in a very bad place because of said form of government.

But... there's always going to be a "little guy" who doesn't benefit from a gov't. You can't get a gov't that's realistically totally comprehensive, and takes care of everyone's needs all the time.
Granted, the Taliban was harbouring terrorists, and needed to be dealt with. But "giving" the country democracy, and then complaining that they're not turning into Americans is... silly.

That's why it's folly to call the U.S. a Democracy, and why it is foolish to try and spread it.

The only thing democratic in the US is the way we elect our leaders. Everything else is bound by the Constitution.

The people of the Middle East want democracy so they can elect their own Islamic Republic.

They don't like freedom, or dictators. They don't want either freedom or Sharia forced on them. They want to choose Sharia on their own.

It's screwed up, but that's how it is.
[ Refuses to allow innane and inaccurate slurs against his Country to bring him down ... does a happy dance instead. ] :p

But "giving" the country democracy, and then complaining that they're not turning into Americans is... silly.

Oh, that's what I was doing, is it?

I was criticising my country for doing what it did. I was pointing out the irony in giving them Democracy.

Depends on what you mean by "oppression". Is it "oppressive" to stop 51% of the people from taking away the rights of the other 49%?
is it democracy to have 49% dictate what rights the 51% can and should have?

before this turns into a debate about the Good and bad of Democracy, and derails this happy topic of one man escaping execution to pursue the religion of his choice. I suggest we agree that it is a knife's edge and that a careful balancing act is required, no matter what Nation it be about.

is it democracy to have 49% dictate what rights the 51% can and should have?

before this turns into a debate about the Good and bad of Democracy, and derails this happy topic of one man escaping execution to pursue the religion of his choice. I suggest we agree that it is a knife's edge and that a careful balancing act is required, no matter what Nation it be about.

Agreed. :p

Depends on what you mean by "oppression". Is it "oppressive" to stop 51% of the people from taking away the rights of the other 49%?

I'd go so far as to say it's always oppressive to take away rights from people, no matter what percentage of the population they make up.
But I'm also not a fan of special treatment BECAUSE someone belongs to a minority group, either. Alas, special treatments are sometimes needed because those of the majority treat the minority unfairly, no matter what the laws dictate.

[ Refuses to allow innane and inaccurate slurs against his Country to bring him down ... does a happy dance instead. ] :p

But he's right. The U.S isn't a democracy... it's a Republic ;)

Oh, that's what I was doing, is it?

I was criticising my country for doing what it did. I was pointing out the irony in giving them Democracy.

No, no. I wasn't aiming that at anyone in particular. Just stating that I've seen people complain that they're "not progressing" or don't appear "free" but there are other styles of freedom other than the American version. It wasn't intended as a personal shot of any kind.

No, no. I wasn't aiming that at anyone in particular. Just stating that I've seen people complain that they're "not progressing" or don't appear "free" but there are other styles of freedom other than the American version. It wasn't intended as a personal shot of any kind.

Good, good.

[ Refuses to allow innane and inaccurate slurs against his Country to bring him down ... does a happy dance instead. ] :p
Congrats on not following that potential hijack.

*Joins in on the Happy Dance.*

God bless Italy. Destroy all Islam theocracit states! CRUSADE

[ Refuses to allow innane and inaccurate slurs against his Country to bring him down ... does a happy dance instead. ] :p

I'm not slurring your country. I'd never slur my country. I Love my country and our freedom. It's just technical details and terminality and jargon definitions that I disagree with.

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.
To be fair, the government wanted to find a way to get him off the hook, it's the people who wanted him tried for it.

To be fair, the government wanted to find a way to get him off the hook, it's the people who wanted him tried for it.

Heh. I really should stop watching the news, then.

Heh. I really should stop watching the news, then.

Me too.

It's nice to know that someone in Europe still has guts to stand up for freedom.
Good logic.

Good logic.
Sarcasm? Or not? :p

Sarcasm? Or not? :p
Sarcasm.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063255/

Kudos Italia.
Good on them. :)

I hope he speaks out in the Italian press and shames the Afghan people into abandoning the barbaric practice of executing people for their religious beliefs.
Hmm one can hope, but I think that would be overly optimistic.

It's nice to know that someone in Europe still has guts to stand up for freedom.
:rolleyes:

Europeans are standing up for freedom, generally speaking.

I say it should be up to the people who live their to change their gov't, not the US. Dictating how to use Democracy is just stupid on too many levels.
Not that I'm encouraging imperialism, but governments that attack basic human rights should be brought into line.

is it democracy to have 49% dictate what rights the 51% can and should have?
No, I think that minorities should be able to decide what rights they should have in issues that don't affect the minority. You seem to think that everyone who is not being oppressed is oppressing someone else.

Not that I'm encouraging imperialism, but governments that attack basic human rights should be brought into line.
Agreed.

It's nice to know that someone in Europe still has guts to stand up for freedom.

Just because European nation states wern't founded on the priciple of democracy but instead developed it (and exported it to America) we are somehow not standing up for freedom. I'm sorry but why is it America tends to look down its noses at Europe and thinks we're all a bunch of cowards and afraid to stand up for things.

Just because European nation states wern't founded on the priciple of democracy but instead developed it (and exported it to America) we are somehow not standing up for freedom. I'm sorry but why is it America tends to look down its noses at Europe and thinks we're all a bunch of cowards and afraid to stand up for things.
Ignorance. :) There is bliss in it. Why be miserable when you can be blissful and ignorant?

No, I think that minorities should be able to decide what rights they should have in issues that don't affect the minority. You seem to think that everyone who is not being oppressed is oppressing someone else.

I think 100% of the people should enjoy the same identical rights regardless of their minority or majority status.

:headbang: Niaman your such an ASS

Same here.

You know, when we went to Afghanistan to "free" the people, I thought we were going to, you know, free them. Instead, an Islamic government gets voted it (woohoo Democracy), and the people aren't much better off than they were with the Taliban.
Exactly.
It saddens me to see the ignorant blue-collar Republican supporters here write letters to the editor talking about how Saddham Hussein was trying to help Osama turn the Middle East into a Islamic theocracy and have no clue what the fuck is going on right now, or what was going on.

EDIT: Ok, who the fuck gave the trolls shovels now? Well, who did it?

What the hell? What's with the gravedigging?