NationStates Jolt Archive

Just something I was thinking about the other day; I've heard often enough that "there are no wrong opinions" and "your opinion is just as valid as mine" but is this true? Do you believe all opinions are of worth, some of them, none of them?

From my point of view, your opinion is wrong, as only my opinion is right, and your opinion deviates from my opinion

There are no wrong opinions, but not all opinions are of equal worth.

If somone is of the opinion that I am actually (not metaphorically) a hamster, then they are most definitely wrong. It is quite easy to have wrong opinions.

Whoever said that was wrong. :p

Opinions are often wrong when the people holding them ignore facts.

I dont think there are wrong opinions, but of course I think my opinion is right otherwise I wouldnt have it.

From a personal POV: Yes, some opinions are right, some are wrong.

From a metaphysical POV: No, all opinions are of equal value, their validity only comes about through the perception of people.

If somone is of the opinion that I am actually (not metaphorically) a hamster, then they are most definitely wrong. It is quite easy to have wrong opinions.
Actually, I'm of the opinion that everyone on NS is a hamster. Some truly intellectually precocious hamsters, and some...well...intellectually retarded hamsters, but hamsters nonetheless.

On topic, yes there are wrong opinions on basic things (such as whether NSers are all hamsters), but on more complex matters, the validity of an opinion is based on the facts that back up that opinion. If facts provided to back up an opinion are clearly wrong or misinterpreted, it should be easy to prove the opinion wrong. If they're right, then the opinion is, for all intents and purposes, right.

Depends on the opinion.

Every opinion I think is valid in some way, so long as it is logically consistant with itself, it doesn't ignore direct evidence to the contrary, and doesn't apply different standards to everybody else as it does to yourself.

Like, 'A baby is a full fledged human being starting from conception'. This is an opinion I do not agree with, but it's perfectly valid, because it doesn't go against logic or available evidence in any convincing way.

But, 'Women are intellectually inferior to men'. You might as well say 'In my opinion, 2 + 2 = 5'. Because the presence of brilliant women everywhere in society directly disproves that statement.

'People should not have to pay any taxes to help the poor because it's their money and they earned it' is an opinion I disagree with, but it's a perfectly logically valid one.

'Everybody should have to pay taxes except me, because I'm me and I kick more ass than anyone else' is not a valid opinion.

Depends on the opinion.

Every opinion I think is valid in some way, so long as it is logically consistant with itself, it doesn't ignore direct evidence to the contrary, and doesn't apply different standards to everybody else as it does to yourself.

Like, 'A baby is a full fledged human being starting from conception'. This is an opinion I do not agree with, but it's perfectly valid, because it doesn't go against logic or available evidence in any convincing way.

But, 'Women are intellectually inferior to men'. You might as well say 'In my opinion, 2 + 2 = 5'. Because the presence of brilliant women everywhere in society directly disproves that statement.

'People should not have to pay any taxes to help the poor because it's their money and they earned it' is an opinion I disagree with, but it's a perfectly logically valid one.

'Everybody should have to pay taxes except me, because I'm me and I kick more ass than anyone else' is not a valid opinion.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but you put it so much better.

If somone is of the opinion that I am actually (not metaphorically) a hamster, then they are most definitely wrong.

In order for them to be most definately wrong you would have to offer some definitive evidence proving that you are not, in fact, a hampster. You cannot possibly do this because the definition of a hamster is not something firmly agreed upon in all circles and furthermore you would have no way of proving that you a not a hampster disguising itself with means beyond our comprehension. Because if the means are beyond our comprehension then you cannot understand them well enough to prove that you are not using them.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but you put it so much better.
Indeed.

If you restrict the word "opinion" to what I would call its proper use - using it only to describe those things which cannot be verified one way or another, then yes, there are no "wrong" opinions.

However, when someone essentially says, "2+2=8, and you can't say I'm wrong, because that's just my opinion," they're definitely full of crap. They are wrong.

what heyrelax said

some opinions are just ignorant. the person hasnt done his homework and just has an opinion fly out of his ass. that opinion is worthless

but if you look into a subject, think about it, and come to a different opinion that mine, its equal to mine. sometimes better since there are things i cant be bothered to do my own homework on.

From my point of view, your opinion is wrong, as only my opinion is right, and your opinion deviates from my opinion
the answer is here!

But, 'Women are intellectually inferior to men'. You might as well say 'In my opinion, 2 + 2 = 5'. Because the presence of brilliant women everywhere in society directly disproves that statement.

You cannot prove that 2+2=4 anymore than you can disprove 2+2=5. If you say that opinions that go against logic are invalid, then the idea that the earth is round is invalid along with the idea that the earth revolves around the sun.

The presence of brillent women in society cannot be proven. You could point out a particular woman and find her to be brilliant while I might find nothing remarkable about her. You cannot disprove the opinion that women are intellectually inferior to men. All you are able to do is hold a different opinion, and believe that your opinion is closer to whatever absolute truth there is in this world, based off of your personal analysis of the issue.

You cannot prove that 2+2=4

Of course you can. They are defined as such.

anymore than you can disprove 2+2=5. If you say that opinions that go against logic are invalid, then the idea that the earth is round is invalid along with the idea that the earth revolves around the sun.

There is nothing illogical about either of those statements, considering that all available evidence backs them up.

You cannot disprove the opinion that women are intellectually inferior to men.

Of course you can. All you need is a measure of intellect.

Not all opinions are right. Consider this one, for example:

"I believe the earth is flat because I said so."

Is that correct? Not at all. We've seen Earth from space, and it's a sphere.

Now, an opinion like this:

"George Bush is a good president because of the war on terror."

That has worth (and I don't even agree with it.) Some believe that the war on terror/in Iraq/in Afghanistan is a good idea.

It all depends.

You cannot prove that 2+2=4 anymore than you can disprove 2+2=5. If you say that opinions that go against logic are invalid, then the idea that the earth is round is invalid along with the idea that the earth revolves around the sun.

The presence of brillent women in society cannot be proven. You could point out a particular woman and find her to be brilliant while I might find nothing remarkable about her. You cannot disprove the opinion that women are intellectually inferior to men. All you are able to do is hold a different opinion, and believe that your opinion is closer to whatever absolute truth there is in this world, based off of your personal analysis of the issue.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

If you mean that we have differing definitions of our terms, then it might be possible to opine that Elenor Roosevelt was and was not a brilliant woman, because in your view skill in music might be a prerequisite and Elanor was not IIRC a gifted musician, whereas I have a different definition. If you, however, opine that a triangle's interior angles add up to 360 degrees, then it is not a difference of opinion; you are simply opining wrongly, because it is a necessary part of the term "triangle" that the objects interior angles add up to 180 degrees. I would say further that we can even in the case of an individual woman's brilliance debate whether you are opining correctly, because we can debate whether or not skill in music is a necessary part of the term "brilliance".

If you instead mean that we lack the epistemic means to determining conclusively that a woman is or is not brilliant, then I would simply say that you have an absurdly high standard of knowledge, and that by the standard you imply we cannot know anything.

eugh.

in response to any argument by person Y that person X cannot be bothered to refute:

"but that's just you opinion" (must be said in whiney voice)

worst argument ever.

Any position is an opinion simply by virtue of sombody holding it. That makes it neither valid or invalid.

From my point of view, your opinion is wrong, as only my opinion is right, and your opinion deviates from my opinion
Exactly. As long as you agree with my opinion you are always right.

An opinion can be "wrong" from within a framework

But they can be right in another.

I voted all are right but thats with the proviso we are not talking about a defined framework

Don't mess around with math and opinions. There are definately triangles with more than 180° in them, for example try and paint an triangle on the earth, beginning at the north pole with an angle of 90°, down to the equator, another angle with 90°, round the equator until you meet the third line, and again an angle with 90° --> therefore there is an triangle with 270° interior angles.

Sorry for my bad english, i am a german.

So, if I have the opinion that there are triangles with mor than 180° interieur angles, I am as right as you are - because of our different views of the world. In your flat world, your 180° Triangles are the only ones to exist rightfully, in my positively round world ther can be more degrees, in a negatively round world there are less degrees in that triangle.

So you always have to take a look at the view of the world when somebody has a different opinion. Right-winged people and their view of the world normally have the absolute correct opinion in letting poor people starve... while left winged people have the opposite opinion because of an other view of the world, and it ist also correct - for them.

If these World-views are wrong in some facts, for example if someone states that the earth is a rectangular qubus instead of a sphere, the resulting opinion is naturally wrong. But there are actually as many correct views of the world as there are people, so most opinions are worth listening to, if only to get another angle of view on the world than you had so long and to expand your own horizon.

But there are actually as many correct views of the world as there are people, so most opinions are worth listening to, if only to get another angle of view on the world than you had so long and to expand your own horizon.
Exactically.

That is a very good first post. Didn't have any gun-smilies in it. :D

So you always have to take a look at the view of the world when somebody has a different opinion. Right-winged people and their view of the world normally have the absolute correct opinion in letting poor people starve... while left winged people have the opposite opinion because of an other view of the world, and it ist also correct - for them.
Not all right-wing individuals think that way, and neither do all left-wing ones. Although I do realise you are merely constrasting two extremes.

If these World-views are wrong in some facts, for example if someone states that the earth is a rectangular qubus instead of a sphere, the resulting opinion is naturally wrong. But there are actually as many correct views of the world as there are people, so most opinions are worth listening to, if only to get another angle of view on the world than you had so long and to expand your own horizon.
Quite true.

Don't mess around with math and opinions. There are definately triangles with more than 180° in them, for example try and paint an triangle on the earth, beginning at the north pole with an angle of 90°, down to the equator, another angle with 90°, round the equator until you meet the third line, and again an angle with 90° --> therefore there is an triangle with 270° interior angles.

Sorry for my bad english, i am a german.

So, if I have the opinion that there are triangles with mor than 180° interieur angles, I am as right as you are - because of our different views of the world. In your flat world, your 180° Triangles are the only ones to exist rightfully, in my positively round world ther can be more degrees, in a negatively round world there are less degrees in that triangle.

So you always have to take a look at the view of the world when somebody has a different opinion. Right-winged people and their view of the world normally have the absolute correct opinion in letting poor people starve... while left winged people have the opposite opinion because of an other view of the world, and it ist also correct - for them.

If these World-views are wrong in some facts, for example if someone states that the earth is a rectangular qubus instead of a sphere, the resulting opinion is naturally wrong. But there are actually as many correct views of the world as there are people, so most opinions are worth listening to, if only to get another angle of view on the world than you had so long and to expand your own horizon.

What you have just described is not a triangle. It's a three-dimensional contour over the side of an ovoid. Triangles are necessarily two-dimensional. That isn't a matter of opinion; it's a matter of what necessarily constitutes a triangle.

I don't believe all opinions are of equal worth, no. Some are based on reason, and knowledge, are well thought-out and well-informed, whereas most are little more than unthinking gut reactions based on simplistic ignorance, prejudice and emotionalism. The former are, of course, instrinsically more worthy, whatever else their respective merits (or lack thereof) may be.

I don't believe all opinions are of equal worth, no. Some are based on reason, and knowledge, are well thought-out and well-informed, whereas most are little more than unthinking gut reactions based on simplistic ignorance, prejudice and emotionalism. The former are, of course, instrinsically more worthy, whatever else their respective merits (or lack thereof) may be.
Which is why it pays to be careful what you take in, and what you choose to disregard.

all opinions are valid
unfortunatly those opinions which have a popular backing or powerful backing are the one that are subjected on to all of us.

eg. my opinion 'the war in Iraq is wrong.'
GWB opinion 'the war in iraq is correct.

neither opinion is right or wrong, however GWB has a more powerful voice and therefore his opinion is carried forward..

everyone fight for your opinions (not nec. with guns though)

opinions are like assholes - everybody has one...

I don't believe all opinions are of equal worth, no. Some are based on reason, and knowledge, are well thought-out and well-informed, whereas most are little more than unthinking gut reactions based on simplistic ignorance, prejudice and emotionalism. The former are, of course, instrinsically more worthy, whatever else their respective merits (or lack thereof) may be.
yea, like I just said...

What you have just described is not a triangle. It's a three-dimensional contour over the side of an ovoid. Triangles are necessarily two-dimensional. That isn't a matter of opinion; it's a matter of what necessarily constitutes a triangle.
Ok, you're right. Your flat triangle behaves just like my round contour, if you paint your flat triangle in a round DIMENSION, like it sometimes happens in reality if you believe Einstein.

That's what I ment when I said: It's just your view of the world that forms your opinion.


greets!
Calli
(I like Gunsmileys, but they don't fit here)

I think Hitler was a black man from Mars who was very fond of Jewish people. That's my opinion, and since opinions can't be wrong, it's true.

I think Hitler was a black man from Mars who was very fond of Jewish people. That's my opinion, and since opinions can't be wrong, it's true.

is that your opinion or sarcasm? hard to tell you know.

Ok, you're right. Your flat triangle behaves just like my round contour, if you paint your flat triangle in a round DIMENSION, like it sometimes happens in reality if you believe Einstein.

That's what I ment when I said: It's just your view of the world that forms your opinion.


greets!
Calli
(I like Gunsmileys, but they don't fit here)

I never said that my knowledge of a triangle has to conform with empirical examples. In point of fact, I readily acknowledge that because of space-time curvature, I've never seen a triangle in the official sense of the term in my life. But I still have knowledge of what a triangle is, and so long as I have that knowledge, I thereby also know in each individual case whether or not someone's opinion of whether one or another instantiation is a triangle or not. In other words, it isn't a matter of whether someone opines something that makes it valid, but how accurately their opinion corresponds to what they are referring to.

As far as Im concerned, opinons do not matter. What matters are rhetoric, logic and a dazzaling smile.

Opinions are pointless unless you can bend the minds of others to your will to put them into effect, and then you have a bunch of stupid brainwashed people, and they're no fun. Instead we should be like the Vulcans and cast them out as illogical.

There's no wrong opinions. However, there are odd opinions, ill informed opinions, and downright stupid opinions. In addition, there are wrong beliefs.

Your right to your opinion is as good as mine. Your opinion is only as good as the facts that back it up.

I chose the fourth option. I will always maintain that my opinion is right and another differing one is wrong, but I will also always remain knowledgeable of the fact that I don’t know everything and that i may change an opinion if confronted with new evidence that I consider to be reliable.

First, I believe that there is no such thing as truism.

So let's bring up a scenerio. I see a person, and I think it's a boy.
So she brings up
"What about my voice?"
I just say, "You havn't hit puberty yet. You could just be a boy."
"Hair?"
I've seen some guys with long hair. And man do some of them look like girls.
"Well, what about my breasts?"
*points to a fat guy*
Actually, I really can't tell. I mean, the only way I really can tell is if you take off your pants. Why? Because girls don't have penises.
::The girl walks away, and I have a handprint on my face::

What does this mean?
Not all opinions are valid.

there can be off topic opinions, such as an arguement over what movie to see. person X has an opinion to go see a comedy. person Y has an opinion to see a horror. Person Z (usually me) has the opinion that Hillary Clinton is a whore

now person z's opinion is not wrong, but it is off topic

No opinion is wrong, but most opinions are based upon facts, and those facts that people have based their opinions on can sometimes be wrong.

I'm sure that plenty of opinions are wrong and plenty are right. But who can tell?

Until someone figures out how, I'll stick to my own.

First, I believe that there is no such thing as truism.

So let's bring up a scenerio. I see a person, and I think it's a boy.
So she brings up
"What about my voice?"
I just say, "You havn't hit puberty yet. You could just be a boy."
"Hair?"
I've seen some guys with long hair. And man do some of them look like girls.
"Well, what about my breasts?"
*points to a fat guy*
Actually, I really can't tell. I mean, the only way I really can tell is if you take off your pants. Why? Because girls don't have penises.
::The girl walks away, and I have a handprint on my face::

What does this mean?
Not all opinions are valid.

Greatest pick-up line ever. :D

Oh, and the problem with holding any other opinion than 'there are no wrong opinons' is that you're essentially admitting that that opinon could be wrong too (unless you believe that any opinon other that yours is wrong, but then that just opens up a whole 'nother bag o' paradoxes (paradoxi?)).