NationStates Jolt Archive

The Smoking Ban is now up and running in scotland.

I wondered what other NSers thought of the ban.

as a smoker who is constantly trying to quit, I am in two minds about the ban.

In offices and food outlets I can see the reasons for, but in Public Houses, I am not too sure. I feel the Breweries who own the pubs could do more, exclusive smoking rooms, better air conditioning etc.

Any thoughts ?

I hate smoking, I hate the smell and don't want to have to eat in a place where people smoke, its like eating in a place where people fart all the time...yuk. But that said, my boyfriend smokes, and he always goes outside to do it and I think that as long as there are people who have to smoke because giving up is REAL hard, then there needs to be provision for it, even if its outside in a kind of shelter...wow that sounds so harsh! lol

Well the scottish MP's have their own shelter for smokers outside their Parliament building so it could work. lol

"When They Came for the Smokers ..."

by L. Neil Smith

A friend of mine calls himself a "political smoker".

He doesn't smoke. He never has.

But told some time ago at a Los Angeles supper club that he and other members would henceforward be forbidden to smoke, his immediate reaction was to borrow a cigarette from somebody sitting nearby, stand, and light it up in protest. As he sees it, his interests, in terms of his individual and civil rights, run parallel with those of smokers who are being increasingly stripped of theirs.

I am a former smoker.

I quit cold more than a year ago, after suffering a heart attack. Even before that, I never claimed that smoking is good for anybody, just that I had always enjoyed doing it -- and that a great many lies were being told about it by individuals and groups who had gone beyond non-smoking to become anti- smokers.

But I, too, remain a political smoker.

Exactly like many another do-gooder-targetted group, smokers today are well along in the process of losing their human rights -- and more and more, it seems, their very humanity -- to social parasites who, as H.L. Mencken is reputed to have put it long ago, awaken in the middle of the night, sweat- drenched and trembling with the morbid fear that somewhere, someone might be happy. Until now, there hasn't been an effective way to crush these lice on the American body politic -- and their bloodsucking symbionts in media and government -- between the thumb of the Ninth Amendment and the forefinger of the First.

Until now.

Let me suggest a couple of ways to begin dealing with them. Of course you're free to employ one or the other, or both, or go off and think something up yourself ...

Although I smoked two packs of Marlboros a day for 30 years, I indulged in cigars and pipes, as well. One thing I still haven't been able to do is dispose of my collection of the latter. Some I inherited from my father and an uncle. They're pretty, they were chosen to express my personality -- the same way you buy a hat -- and they still smell wonderful. I keep my ancient favorite on my desktop to this day, and although I'll never put tobacco in it again and light it, I still pick it up -- it feels comfortingly familiar in my hand -- fondle it, and hang it off my lower teeth for a contemplative moment or two.

Drug paraphernalia.

So far, it hasn't left the house since that night last summer when I was rushed to the emergency room with unbearable pains in my chest and left arm. But I'm thinking of taking it on a field trip to the non-smoking section of a restaurant or two. I know what will happen, and so, if you think about it, do you.

There are non-smokers like me, and then there are anti-smokers.

The anti-smokers all around me will begin to fidget.

They'll mutter to themselves and each other.

They'll glare at me.

Because what they're all about -- what they've always been all about -- has absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of first- or second- or third-hand smoke and whether it harms anybody or not. That's only their excuse.

What it has to do with is the complete unsuitability, in their twisted minds, of simple human pleasure in the lives of everyone around them. This used to be the preoccupation of Puritanical religions. Today, most of the people of this bent have abandoned religion, but they haven't abandoned the demented ecstasy they experience by shouting "Thou shalt not!" at everyone in sight -- and being able to back it up with the brute force of governmental edict.

If I'm especially lucky, they'll complain to the management who'll be forced to confront me and my empty, tobaccoless pipe and ask me to put it back in my pocket or leave the restaurant. Either that or, at my suggestion, the management will go back to the nicotine Nazis at the next table and tell them where to put their complaints -- not in their pockets, but where the sun never shines.

So ... My first suggestion is that you become a political smoker. Go to the nearest drugstore and pick out an inexpensive pipe, a pipe that's never had tobacco in it, a pipe that likely never will, a pipe that strikes you as attractive or expresses some aspect of your personality. They make all kinds of pretty ones, not only briar, but gold, silver, inlaid, or enameled. Think of it as a fashion accessory or an item of jewelry. Don't worry that it serves no practical purpose. What practical purpose does an earring or a necktie serve?

Display it in your favorite restaurant, on the bus, at the theater, at a children's daycare center. What your empty pipe will accomplish is to inform beleaguered smokers that they're not alone, as media and government would have them believe. It will inform Prohibitionists that their reign of terror is coming to a long-overdue end, that they're up against a civilized solidarity that maintains the human, Constitutional, and American right to go to hell in your own way.

There used to be a certain class of people -- people of a certain color -- who by longstanding evil custom were forbidden to sit anywhere on a bus but at the back. After a century or so of such nonsense, one of them courageously refused to abide by this evil custom, and she changed the course of American history forever.

On another occasion, another class of people -- those who for reasons of their own enjoy nicotine in its many forms -- were also limited to the back of the bus.

Today, even that has been taken away.

My second suggestion to you is that we call such people "niccers" -- after their recreational drug of choice -- as loudly and as often as we can, so that the average tobacco Prohibitionist -- say, California Congressman Henry Waxman, as nasty a piece of work as I've ever seen in more than three decades of political observation -- will realize precisely who and what he has become.

I'm a political niccer.

Are you one, too?

By L.Neil Smith

...
He doesn't smoke. He never has.

But told some time ago at a Los Angeles supper club that he and other members would henceforward be forbidden to smoke, his immediate reaction was to borrow a cigarette from somebody sitting nearby, stand, and light it up in protest. As he sees it, his interests, in terms of his individual and civil rights, run parallel with those of smokers who are being increasingly stripped of theirs.
By L.Neil SmithI call contradiction.

well said, very nice and concise, I wonder if I can copy it to my blog?

well said, very nice and concise, I wonder if I can copy it to my blog?

I'm sure Neil Smith would not mind.

"smokers today are well along in the process of losing their human rights "

Well I'm a smoker and in my country, Spain, we've got also a new smoking law, so things are becoming harder and harder for us but I don't think smoking is a Human right. I think drug consumation (all of them) should be legal but not freely, maybe like in Holland, just in the streets, at home and in some specially made places (Coffe shops and so). If there is a human right in risk here is, and has always been, the non somokers right to breath clean air. Of course, there are many others reasons 'cause the air is not clean, but that's not a reason to start protecting this right.

"smokers today are well along in the process of losing their human rights "

Well I'm a smoker and in my country, Spain, we've got also a new smoking law, so things are becoming harder and harder for us but I don't think smoking is a Human right. I think drug consumation (all of them) should be legal but not freely, maybe like in Holland, just in the streets, at home and in some specially made places (Coffe shops and so). If there is a human right in risk here is, and has always been, the non somokers right to breath clean air. Of course, there are many others reasons 'cause the air is not clean, but that's not a reason to start protecting this right.

I personally am not saying it is a fundimental right, or that banning it is against those rights. But I am wondering if there could not have been more compromise, after all the biggest gainer from smoking is the Government with taxation. It just strikes me as if they are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Could the breweries have done more within the format of smoking and non smoking rooms, and better air conditioning?

In the early 70's and 80's working Mens clubs were popular in the UK.

They had cheap beers and members only rooms, usually the games rooms, where men could be men, swear, laugh, joke, play snooker, darts etc....

Then the Womens rights movement jumped on this anomoly, saying it was sexual discrimination, demanding entry.

The Clubs capitualted, woman were allowed in, they then banned swearing as they (women) found it offensive.

Now the working mens clubs are dying out, men just are not going into them anymore as they are too politically correct, is this a sign of the times, is this the future with pubs and the smoking ban?

To be honest, when people smoke around me I dont really care about the smoke itself. I thikn the rick of cancer is close to non existent from a bit of cesond hand smoke, its more the smell. I dont know if smokers become desensitized to it but every time i come back from the pub, or a restaurant where i've sat with friends who smoke, i totally reek of it, like i've had ash smeard all over my clothes. Thats what i cant stand.

So I'm in two minds about it, I dont think it should be banned for the "political smoker" reasons in the posts above but i absolutely hate the smell so I wont protest too much if it does go.

To be honest, when people smoke around me I dont really care about the smoke itself. I thikn the rick of cancer is close to non existent from a bit of cesond hand smoke, its more the smell. I dont know if smokers become desensitized to it but every time i come back from the pub, or a restaurant where i've sat with friends who smoke, i totally reek of it, like i've had ash smeard all over my clothes. Thats what i cant stand.

So I'm in two minds about it, I dont think it should be banned for the "political smoker" reasons in the posts above but i absolutely hate the smell so I wont protest too much if it does go.

But surley if the ventilation was good, so as to suck all the fumes out of the air around you, you wouldnt be smelling of smoke?

as I said earlier I think that the government is throwing out the baby with the bath water, they are not willing to compromise. Yet they are willing to take all the tax income they can get from cigarettes and drink, and I fear that pubs will close, people will lose their jobs, and taxation will rise in other areas to compensate for the losses.

But surley if the ventilation was good, so as to suck all the fumes out of the air around you, you wouldnt be smelling of smoke?A ventilation system that could accomplish that would most likely suck the napkins and coasters from the bar or restaurant tables...

A ventilation system that could accomplish that would most likely suck the napkins and coasters from the bar or restaurant tables...

True, either that or it would have to be so powerful that the noise of its motor would drown out any conversation. Smoke sticks to clothes very well.

True, either that or it would have to be so powerful that the noise of its motor would drown out any conversation. Smoke sticks to clothes very well.

I agree with the ban in food outlets etc, and on pubs serving food, but I meant adequate ventilation in smoking rooms seperate from other areas of the pub.

I’ve never considered inhaling toxic chemicals to be an unassailable human right. On the other hand the right not to be assailed by toxic chemicals might be a bit more of a real issue. They’ve had the ban for a while in British Columbia and while there was a lot of griping by bar and restaurant owners about anything that might affect business, the line ups to get in night clubs aren’t any shorter.

People working at those places no longer have to choke on second hand smoke whether they like it or not. When you come home from a club you now smell like perfume instead of tobacco, which is a bit easier to take.

I remember going to a hotel restaurant in neighbouring Alberta, a few years ago, and couldn’t believe how smoky it was during breakfast. I had to go change afterwards because my clothes smelled like an ashtray.

What needs to be done is for the Government to levy some sort of purity laws against the tobacco industry to keep them from putting things like arsenic (among other overtly toxic substances) in cigarettes, things wouldn’t be as bad. There shouldn’t be anything other than tobacco in tobacco, and there should be measures to ensure that they don’t use overly dangerous pesticides that would further endanger smokers. It’s pretty obvious that left unregulated the cigarette companies have put everything but plutonium in their products without any regard to their customer, other than they get addicted to the product of course.

The Bruce

I think it's idiotic.

I’ve never considered inhaling toxic chemicals to be an unassailable human right. On the other hand the right not to be assailed by toxic chemicals might be a bit more of a real issue. They’ve had the ban for a while in British Columbia and while there was a lot of griping by bar and restaurant owners about anything that might affect business, the line ups to get in night clubs aren’t any shorter.

People working at those places no longer have to choke on second hand smoke whether they like it or not. When you come home from a club you now smell like perfume instead of tobacco, which is a bit easier to take.

I remember going to a hotel restaurant in neighbouring Alberta, a few years ago, and couldn’t believe how smoky it was during breakfast. I had to go change afterwards because my clothes smelled like an ashtray.

What needs to be done is for the Government to levy some sort of purity laws against the tobacco industry to keep them from putting things like arsenic (among other overtly toxic substances) in cigarettes, things wouldn’t be as bad. There shouldn’t be anything other than tobacco in tobacco, and there should be measures to ensure that they don’t use overly dangerous pesticides that would further endanger smokers. It’s pretty obvious that left unregulated the cigarette companies have put everything but plutonium in their products without any regard to their customer, other than they get addicted to the product of course.

The BruceAgreed

Anything that has over 590 chemicals and additives in it is something to be wary of. Some of the things in Cigarettes include Hydrogen Cyanide. for those who don't recognize it... it was once called Zyklon B.

Formaldehyde, Ammonia, Tar (yes, that stuff you see people slopping on their rooftops.) all that in Cigarettes... and most of those 590+ chemicals change properties after burning them, creating over 4000 chemical compounds after you "light up."

I think it's idiotic.
The ban?

or Smoking itself?

The ban?

or Smoking itself?
The ban.

A general ban is ok in public places. Smokers ought to be provided separate spaces, though. They do have the right to commit suicide in slow-motion.

Now the working mens clubs are dying out, men just are not going into them anymore as they are too politically correct, is this a sign of the times, is this the future with pubs and the smoking ban?
Pubs are doing great over here despite the smoking ban. People still come out in droves, some bars have specially ventillated rooms for smokers separate from the rest of the bar (they tend to look like giant aquariums full of people and smoke) and us non-smokers don't have to come home stinking of smoke. I actually know people who go to bars more because they don't stink upon their return.

A general ban is ok in public places. Smokers ought to be provided separate spaces, though. They do have the right to commit suicide in slow-motion.


I always wonder about all the furor over these laws then think-How come it against the law to smoke in a bar/pub-where presumably most people there will be adults that can leave or relocate if they dont like the smoke, BUT, there is no law against smoking in a car or your own home with children present, who CANNOT choose to leave?

I dont smoke, neither does my wife. When I did go to a bar, I just expected to deal with it-many places in the US that allowed smoking usually had a fairly adequate ventalation system that kept the air moving-while distasteful to me, it was bareable.

I just always wonder about kids in the car with an adult smoking. And I've never heard anyone else mention it.

I always wonder about all the furor over these laws then think-How come it against the law to smoke in a bar/pub-where presumably most people there will be adults that can leave or relocate if they dont like the smoke, BUT, there is no law against smoking in a car or your own home with children present, who CANNOT choose to leave?

I dont smoke, neither does my wife. When I did go to a bar, I just expected to deal with it-many places in the US that allowed smoking usually had a fairly adequate ventalation system that kept the air moving-while distasteful to me, it was bareable.

I just always wonder about kids in the car with an adult smoking. And I've never heard anyone else mention it.
Because technically, a car is private property. you can smoke in your home as well.

Because technically, a car is private property. you can smoke in your home as well.


I know-and I'm very much against laws intruding into a man's castle/car.

Smoking is now outlawed in bars/restaurants in NJ under the guise of pritecting the employees from the second hand smoke.
The law doesnt apply to casinos, however. Maybe casino employees are much tougher.