NationStates Jolt Archive

It's been many years since I first pointed out that those who do not believe in birth control are liable to outbreed those who do - and since most people follow what their parents taught them, it seems like population control is a doomed concept.

Today, I am reminded (http://sorethumbsonline.com/d/20060320.html) of this phenomenon and its applicability to politics in general. So, how many of you think evolutionary dynamics really do apply to long-term political change?

This kind of reminds me of the ending of Dr Stangelove. We must outbreed the enemy!

This kind of reminds me of the ending of Dr Stangelove. We must outbreed the enemy!Ah, yes.

Kooky character, but perhaps touching on the truth there.

This kind of reminds me of the ending of Dr Stangelove. We must outbreed the enemy!
Such a great movie :)
"Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!"

So right now, I'm surprised - only 40% say they hold similar political views as their parents. Interesting.

So right now, I'm surprised - only 40% say they hold similar political views as their parents. Interesting.

I'm willing to bet that there is a correlation between age and the similarity between the political views of the children and the parents.

I'm willing to bet that there is a correlation between age and the similarity between the political views of the children and the parents.Yeah? My political views are distinctly different than both my parents even now. I'm 45.


Maybe the views of my kids will fit better into your theory.

Rats. I thought this post was about offering sexual favours in exchange for votes :eek:

It's been many years since I first pointed out that those who do not believe in birth control are liable to outbreed those who do - and since most people follow what their parents taught them, it seems like population control is a doomed concept.

Today, I am reminded (http://sorethumbsonline.com/d/20060320.html) of this phenomenon and its applicability to politics in general. So, how many of you think evolutionary dynamics really do apply to long-term political change?

I don't buy into the whole those-who-are-against-abortion-will-outnumber-those-who-are-for-it argument. By your reasoning, abortion in Europe should be illegal by now because the pro-lifers would have outbred the pro-choicers. However, abortion isn't even an issue (as far as I can tell) in Europe.

There must be other forces at work.

I don't buy into the whole those-who-are-against-abortion-will-outnumber-those-who-are-for-it argument. By your reasoning, abortion in Europe should be illegal by now because the pro-lifers would have outbred the pro-choicers. However, abortion isn't even an issue (as far as I can tell) in Europe.

There must be other forces at work.Well.... that's not really a good test. First - at the outside, it would take several generations to notice any shift on this account. Second, it's not abortion in and of itself, but birth control that requires opposition. Abortion doesn't significantly alter the population dynamic the way voluntary birth control measures (or voluntarily not reproducing oodles) will.

But I am very encouraged by the figures I'm getting back on this poll. They suggest not too much correlation between parental indoctrination and children's adult beliefs.

Rats. I thought this post was about offering sexual favours in exchange for votes :eek:
i was sorta hoping for a future population war between catholics (represented by illegal aliens from latin america) and mormons after the slowbreeding protestants die out.

i hold a mix of political opinions some the same as my moms, some the same as my dads, some of my very own.

The problem is Liberals tend to be both the most educated and the poorest. Conservatives tend to be middle management and religious conservatives. Both have this divide that doesn't put them in a block of breeding or not breeding. The most educated tend not to breed but the poorest tend to breed. Middle management tends not to breed, but religious conservatives tend to breed.

GW is still over 50% in Utah. Maybe that's where all those breeders are that put him in office.

My parents are crazy left wing Moore loving pussies.

...I do a lot of reading. It was either read or Everquest, and I like living more.

The problem is Liberals tend to be both the most educated and the poorest. Conservatives tend to be middle management and religious conservatives. Both have this divide that doesn't put them in a block of breeding or not breeding. The most educated tend not to breed but the poorest tend to breed. Middle management tends not to breed, but religious conservatives tend to breed.

GW is still over 50% in Utah. Maybe that's where all those breeders are that put him in office.


Hurray for random generalizations.

My parents are crazy left wing Moore loving pussies.

...I do a lot of reading. It was either read or Everquest, and I like living more.So your choices were a game or reading? But you like living...



So...

why

not

get

a

life!?!

Y'know a real life... not a RPG life.

It's been many years since I first pointed out that those who do not believe in birth control are liable to outbreed those who do - and since most people follow what their parents taught them, it seems like population control is a doomed concept.

Today, I am reminded (http://sorethumbsonline.com/d/20060320.html) of this phenomenon and its applicability to politics in general. So, how many of you think evolutionary dynamics really do apply to long-term political change?

Actually, it won't quite work that way. Take a look at generations in history.
What you'll find is that no matter what the parent's generation did, the next generation was rebelling against it. Not the entire generation, not every single individual, but a vast majority. To take a look at the past few generations (and I'm looking at Germany here, as I'm most familiar with its history, at least moreso than with any other country), there's been the generation that grew up under Hitler and was largely conservative in its values. That was followed by a radical liberal and socialist generation, advocating equality and getting rid of old and outdated moral and political values. Which, in turn, was followed by a generation of individualists, "each on his own", set on making the most out of their lives and completely career-orientated.
It's everybody's guess what the next generation will be like...

Hurray for random generalizations.
Generalizations are by definition generally correct. Generally people with nothing to say complain about the manner in which someone else said something

Generalizations are by definition generally correct. Generally people with nothing to say complain about the manner in which someone else said something

Generalizations are always wrong! (haha)

Actually, it won't quite work that way. Take a look at generations in history.
What you'll find is that no matter what the parent's generation did, the next generation was rebelling against it. Not the entire generation, not every single individual, but a vast majority. To take a look at the past few generations (and I'm looking at Germany here, as I'm most familiar with its history, at least moreso than with any other country), there's been the generation that grew up under Hitler and was largely conservative in its values. That was followed by a radical liberal and socialist generation, advocating equality and getting rid of old and outdated moral and political values. Which, in turn, was followed by a generation of individualists, "each on his own", set on making the most out of their lives and completely career-orientated.
It's everybody's guess what the next generation will be like...The poll is bearing that out so far. I wasn't sure, but it looks like it is, which is encouraging. Periodic change is a good thing.

I find it vaguely surprising. Ah well, my parents aren't especially right-wing, so they're harder to rebel against politically, if I ever felt the urge to do so.

The problem is Liberals tend to be both the most educated and the poorest.
Not really. Statistically, one's chances of voting republican go up with the education they receive. All those Masters degrees in Business, and the such.

So your choices were a game or reading? But you like living...



So...

why

not

get

a

life!?!

Y'know a real life... not a RPG life.

I don't play Everquest. Also, have you been outside lately? The air is poison, you get cancer from the sunlight. I like my room. I'm safe here.

During an election a few months ago (I cannot remember which it was, I think a provincial one) it would have been appropriate for my family's lawn to have a sign for every candidate on it. I think the four people in my house (One of my siblings had moved out by that point, and now I too have flown the coop) each supported a different candidate, and there were only four running where I was.

It seems logical based on that point to assume that my parents, my siblings, and I are all vastly different when it comes to political leanings. It is not so, though. We simply interpreted our beliefs through different political parties. In the most recent election, after re-evaluating, my father, sister, and brother all voted for the same party (Although again, my brother was in a different riding, and my father, who is in the military, cast his vote elsewhere as well). I now live in a different constituency as well. In any case, my Mother's party won the seat anyway (I do not mean to turn this thread into one debating proportional representation, but my family's experience seems to support it). I voted for a fringe party without honestly expecting a victory (Although they did very well where I am), but otherwise I would have sided with my father and siblings.

In the end, however, I am not sure that tells the entire story either. My brother does not agree with my parents on many things, nor does my sister, and neither do I. We each pick and choose what we keep. I suppose one could argue that being raised in a similar environment may have disposed us to certain beliefs, but even among those there are variations within my family.

Unlike in the world of genetics, one's political influences are based on the entire surroundings, not just the parents (Unless there is a left-right gene of which I am unaware). I think evolutionary principles are therefore less applicable to political change than they are to the physical attribures of folks. Sure I have my mother's hair, but her fondness for wacky politicians? Nope.

Not really. Statistically, one's chances of voting republican go up with the education they receive. All those Masters degrees in Business, and the such.

Simply look at the map of the last pres. election. The states with the most educated people voted Dem. The states with the least educated people voted Rep.

Simply look at the map of the last pres. election. The states with the most educated people voted Dem. The states with the least educated people voted Rep.
Simply quit relying on clichés and pulling numbers out of your ass, and find the numbers (people do surveys with this stuff). People with more education go Republican more often

Simply quit relying on clichés and pulling numbers out of your ass, and find the numbers (people do surveys with this stuff). People with more education go Republican more often
Here's a survey (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html) since neither of you is bothering to provide one. In 2004, Kerry beat Bush among post-grads 55-44, while Bush beat Kerry among college grads 52-46.

Here's a survey (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html) since neither of you is bothering to provide one. In 2004, Kerry beat Bush among post-grads 55-44, while Bush beat Kerry among college grads 52-46.
Thank you. Exactly as my first post on this subject.
The problem is Liberals tend to be both the most educated and the poorest. Conservatives tend to be middle management and religious conservatives. Both have this divide that doesn't put them in a block of breeding or not breeding. The most educated tend not to breed but the poorest tend to breed. Middle management tends not to breed, but religious conservatives tend to breed.

GW is still over 50% in Utah. Maybe that's where all those breeders are that put him in office.

Oh crap, I never thought of that.

I wish we could enforce population control. My ideal world:

- people are mandated to use birth control until they are a good age to be a parent (here I'm thinking using IUDs until minimum age of 22)
- you'd have to take a battery of tests to see if you would be a fit parent physically and mentally...parenting classes would be provided, and people who failed five times (one test per year) would be sterilized
- no more than 4 children allowed per mother (if one died you would be allowed to try to have another one to replace it if you still can)
- if somebody managed to break the rules by accident or on purpose, their options are abortion or adoption

Seems a little strict, but I am pretty sick and tired of dealing with all these crappy parents at my job.

It's been many years since I first pointed out that those who do not believe in birth control are liable to outbreed those who do - and since most people follow what their parents taught them, it seems like population control is a doomed concept.
I'm rather surprised by that statement. I would have expected the opposite to be true. And not even only among those of the typical "teenage rebellion" age. I for one have been holding political views that are quite different from those of my parents ever since I've been holding any at all. And I'm way beyond that age and I can't see them changing any time soon. :p

I used to follow what my dad said, though it was mainly because he was the only person who ever told me anything.

A few years ago, I realised that he pulled mostly everything he said out of his ass. I decided to figure things out for myself, and as a result, I'm much, much farther Left of him.

This reminds me of that whole CrimethInc collective and they're obsession with free love and polygamy.. maybe them crazy anarchists are trying to outbreed us..

Oh crap, I never thought of that.

I wish we could enforce population control. My ideal world:

- people are mandated to use birth control until they are a good age to be a parent (here I'm thinking using IUDs until minimum age of 22)
- you'd have to take a battery of tests to see if you would be a fit parent physically and mentally...parenting classes would be provided, and people who failed five times (one test per year) would be sterilized
- no more than 4 children allowed per mother (if one died you would be allowed to try to have another one to replace it if you still can)
- if somebody managed to break the rules by accident or on purpose, their options are abortion or adoption

Seems a little strict, but I am pretty sick and tired of dealing with all these crappy parents at my job.

Eeep... Seems a bit like eugenics to me. I thought we got beyond that after WWII, but it seems not...

Oh crap, I never thought of that.

I wish we could enforce population control. My ideal world:

- people are mandated to use birth control until they are a good age to be a parent (here I'm thinking using IUDs until minimum age of 22)
- you'd have to take a battery of tests to see if you would be a fit parent physically and mentally...parenting classes would be provided, and people who failed five times (one test per year) would be sterilized
- no more than 4 children allowed per mother (if one died you would be allowed to try to have another one to replace it if you still can)
- if somebody managed to break the rules by accident or on purpose, their options are abortion or adoption

Seems a little strict, but I am pretty sick and tired of dealing with all these crappy parents at my job.

Eeep... Seems a bit like eugenics to me. I thought we got beyond that after WWII, but it seems not...

It's been many years since I first pointed out that those who do not believe in birth control are liable to outbreed those who do - and since most people follow what their parents taught them, it seems like population control is a doomed concept.

Today, I am reminded (http://sorethumbsonline.com/d/20060320.html) of this phenomenon and its applicability to politics in general. So, how many of you think evolutionary dynamics really do apply to long-term political change?

Your theory doesn't account for the Alex P. Keaton effect.

Guess not. My poll seems to suggest that I'm horribly wrong, anyway - over 50% now say they have very different views from their parents.

Mandatory birth control has sent the Chinese economy booming. Rather than dividing the wealth it has consolidated it. That has given them the opportunity to start businesses.

The same thing happened in Europe with the Black Plague. The survivors had the money to bring a new economy and end the Middle Ages.

The rich get richer, the poor get children.

Mandatory birth control has sent the Chinese economy booming. Rather than dividing the wealth it has consolidated it. That has given them the opportunity to start businesses.

The same thing happened in Europe with the Black Plague. The survivors had the money to bring a new economy and end the Middle Ages.

The rich get richer, the poor get children.
It's also given them a surplus of something like 30 million men who will likely never have a shot at marriage thanks to messed up attitudes about the value of male children over female children.

This kind of reminds me of the ending of Dr Stangelove. We must outbreed the enemy!

YEEHAAAW...YEEHAAAW...YEEHAAAW...

Your theory doesn't account for the Alex P. Keaton effect.

So you mean all these Bible-Thumping NeoCons will have offspring that turn out to be Blatant Secular Liberal Flower Children?

:D

YEEHAAAW...YEEHAAAW...YEEHAAAW...

Gentlemen, please no fighting in the war room!