NationStates Jolt Archive


Is Google making research skills disappear? How do YOU measure up?

Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:00
COMMENTARY: This article suggests that the ease with which search engines such as Google find adequate ( although not always the best ) information has caused a decrease in skills needed for effective research. What do you think? There's an exercise near the bottom of the article that you can do to see how you measure up against graduate students from the University of Tel Aviv.


Searching for Dummies (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/opinion/26tenner.html?th&emc=th)


By EDWARD TENNER
Published: March 26, 2006
Plainsboro, N.J.

TALK of decline was old news in academia even in 1898, when traditionalists blasted Harvard for ending its Greek entrance requirement. But today there's a new twist in the story: Are search engines making today's students dumber?

In December, the National Center for Education Statistics published a report on adult literacy revealing that the number of college graduates able to interpret complex texts proficiently had dropped since 1992 from 40 percent to 31 percent. As Mark S. Schneider, the center's commissioner of education statistics, put it, "What's disturbing is that the assessment is not designed to test your understanding of Proust, but to test your ability to read labels."

The Higher Education Supplement of The Times of London reports that a British survey also finds that the ability of undergraduates to read critically and write cogently has fallen significantly since 1992. Students are not just more poorly prepared, a majority of queried faculty members believe, but less teachable.

While some blame reality television, MP3 players, cellphones or the multitasking that juggles them all, the big change has been the Web. Beginning in the early 1990's, schools, libraries and governments embraced the Internet as the long promised portal to information access for all. And at the heart of their hopes for a cultural and educational breakthrough were superbly efficient search engines like Google and those of its rivals Yahoo and MSN. The new search engines not only find more, they are more likely to present usable information on the first screen.

Google modestly declares its mission "to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful." But convenience may be part of the problem. In the Web's early days, the most serious search engine was AltaVista. To use it well, a searcher had to learn how to construct a search statement, like, say, "Engelbert Humperdinck and not Las Vegas" for the opera composer rather than the contemporary singer. It took practice to produce usable results. Now, thanks to brilliant programming, a simple query usually produces a first page that's at least adequate — "satisficing," as the economist Herbert Simon called it.

The efficiency of today's search engines arises from their ability to analyze links among Web sites. Google led in ranking sites by how often they are linked to other highly ranked sites. It did so using an elaborate variation of a concept familiar in natural science, citation analysis. Instead of looking at which papers are cited most often in the most influential journals, it measures how often Web pages are linked to highly ranked sites — ranked by links to themselves.

Citation analysis has been attacked in library circles for inflating the ratings (and indirectly the subscription prices) of certain journals. Search engines have the opposite problem: dispersion rather than concentration of interest. Despite constant tweaking, their formulas display irrelevant or mediocre sites on a par with truly expert ones.

Curious about the academic field of world history? A neophyte would find little help entering "world history" in Google. When I tried, the only article on the world history movement, from the open-source Wikipedia project, didn't appear until the fifth screen and was brief and eccentric, erroneously dating the field from the 1980's. (In fairness to Wikipedia, that entry has since been corrected and improved; moreover, the paid-access Encyclopaedia Britannica site has no specific article at all.) Only on the seventh screen did I find the World History Network site, financed by the National Endowment for the Humanities, and it is not yet a good portal for beginners.

Many students seem to lack the skills to structure their searches so they can find useful information quickly. In 2002, graduate students at Tel Aviv University were asked to find on the Web, with no time limit, a picture of the Mona Lisa; the complete text of either "Robinson Crusoe" or "David Copperfield"; and a recipe for apple pie accompanied by a photograph. Only 15 percent succeeded at all three assignments. [ Try this yourself and post your findings, please! ]

Today, Google may have expedited such tasks, but the malaise remains. In the February newsletter of the American Historical Association, the reference librarian Lynn D. Lampert notes the prevalence of "ill-conceived (or often nonexistent) student research practices." As another university librarian, Pamela Martin, observed, "Google's simplicity and impressive search prowess trick students into thinking they are good all-around searchers, and when they fail in library searches, they are ashamed as well as confused."

Higher education is fighting back. Librarians are teaching "information literacy" and establishing alternative Web indexes. Graduate students, in the front lines as teaching assistants, are starting to discuss joining Wikipedia rather than fighting it, as many instructors still, quixotically, do.

Can better information in the classroom produce the literate, numerate society the Web once promised? There are two ways to proceed. More owners of free high-quality content should learn the tradecraft of tweaking their sites to improve search engine rankings. And Google can do more to educate users about the power — and frequent advisability — of its advanced search options. It would be a shame if brilliant technology were to end up threatening the kind of intellect that produced it.

Edward Tenner, the author most recently of "Our Own Devices: How Technology Remakes Humanity," is working on a book about positive unintended consequences.
Seosavists
26-03-2006, 22:04
It's probably right but it's not a problem, it's like having a calculator, it means you're not as good at math without it but you don't need to be.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
26-03-2006, 22:07
Voilà :)

1)http://www.brc.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~actan/gallery/Mona-Lisa.jpg
2) http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe6a.shtml
3)http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://img.timeinc.net/food/channel/images/0917is_apple_pie_xl.jpg&imgrefurl=http://food.aol.com/food/channel/recipeideas/inseason/photogallery/0,18887,696948,00.html&h=195&w=188&sz=20&tbnid=Hp_WYJPWv8Xn7M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=94&hl=de&start=20&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dapple%2Bpie%2Brecipe%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Took about 3 minutes to find. (and another 3 to post :rolleyes:)



That wasn't the point, you say? Ah well, too bad. ;)
Nadkor
26-03-2006, 22:08
Many students seem to lack the skills to structure their searches so they can find useful information quickly. In 2002, graduate students at Tel Aviv University were asked to find on the Web, with no time limit, a picture of the Mona Lisa; the complete text of either "Robinson Crusoe" or "David Copperfield"; and a recipe for apple pie accompanied by a photograph. Only 15 percent succeeded at all three assignments. [ Try this yourself and post your findings, please! ]
Mona Lisa (http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Exempla/Davinci-mona-lisa-1503-06.jpg)

Complete text of Robinsin Crusoe (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/17/31/frameset.html) (and, just for good measure, David Copperfield (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/19/1992/frameset.html).)

Apple Pie recipe, complete with picture (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/maryhenrysproperappl_67463.shtml)

Took about a minute.
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:09
Voilà :)

1)http://www.brc.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~actan/gallery/Mona-Lisa.jpg
2) http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe6a.shtml
3)http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://img.timeinc.net/food/channel/images/0917is_apple_pie_xl.jpg&imgrefurl=http://food.aol.com/food/channel/recipeideas/inseason/photogallery/0,18887,696948,00.html&h=195&w=188&sz=20&tbnid=Hp_WYJPWv8Xn7M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=94&hl=de&start=20&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dapple%2Bpie%2Brecipe%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
Kewl! You win! :D
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:10
Mona Lisa (http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Exempla/Davinci-mona-lisa-1503-06.jpg)

Complete text of Robinsin Crusoe (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/17/31/frameset.html) (and, just for good measure, David Copperfield (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/19/1992/frameset.html).)

Apple Pie recipe, complete with picture (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/maryhenrysproperappl_67463.shtml)

Took about a minute.
You win too, but not the same thing Whereyouthinkyougoing wins. :D
Whereyouthinkyougoing
26-03-2006, 22:11
Took about a minute.
*shakes fist at Nadkor & keeps missing the point completely :p *


ETA: You win too, but not the same thing Whereyouthinkyougoing wins. :D :eek:
Nadkor
26-03-2006, 22:11
You win too, but not the same thing Whereyouthinkyougoing wins. :D
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing :p
The Bruce
26-03-2006, 22:12
I think that there is a certain amount of truth in this. People use Google as a superficial crutch, without ever reading a book or scientific magazine to look further into a topic. The truth is that you can do a lot of really good research online, if you make certain to use multiple sources. Yes there is going to be some author bias to wade through, but you have exactly the same problem with books ad magazines to deal with.

What Google can do is to provide quick reference to obscure material that would take you forever to find in a library, since there are no guarantees of the library having anything about the subject you are looking for. Wikipedia is an excellent online resource. I wouldn’t use it for my complete education on a subject, but like any encyclopedia it gives you some base points to begin research from.

I don’t think that I’d ever write a paper purely from Googled research, but I wouldn’t completely discount it either. What Google is probably best for is to clear up misunderstandings you might have on something very specific, like the origins of something peculiar, or to use as a spellchecker searching for the name of a politician (something regular spellcheckers aren’t up to). Google is very insidious. I remember that our Wysterian Invision forum was only up a couple days before the google bots were crawling all over the place…

The Bruce
Seosavists
26-03-2006, 22:13
It took me 4 minutes and I didn't keep them open.

http://www.pastrywiz.com/cakes/applepie.htm
http://beverly2005wp.tripod.com/monalisa.jpg

http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/17/31/frameset.html
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:14
ETA: :eek:
ROFL!! Mwahahaha! :D
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:16
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing :p
For you ... a good thing. For her ... an even better thing! :D
German Nightmare
26-03-2006, 22:16
Mmh.

I have a postcard of the Mona Lisa, I own a copy of Robinson Crusoe, and when I need a recipe of apple pie, I call my Mom. (I might even receive a parcel with apple pie three days later!).

How's that?
Whereyouthinkyougoing
26-03-2006, 22:16
@ Nadkor: Hey, I didn't know that Bibliomania site before - that could become a really useful resource, I already bookmarked it. Thanks for posting it. :)

And I love how of course the BBC's apple pie is all "proper" and whatnot. Hee. Silly Brits.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
26-03-2006, 22:18
Mmh.

I have a postcard of the Mona Lisa, I own a copy of Robinson Crusoe, and when I need a recipe of apple pie, I call my Mom. (I might even receive a parcel with apple pie three days later!).

How's that?
Considering the bolded part, that seems eminently smart to me. *nods*
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:18
Mmh.

I have a postcard of the Mona Lisa, I own a copy of Robinson Crusoe, and when I need a recipe of apple pie, I call my Mom. (I might even receive a parcel with apple pie three days later!).

How's that?
Not bad, for RL. But this is teh internets, ja?
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:20
"Cherman engineering, inna howwwse!" :D
Gargantua City State
26-03-2006, 22:20
Hmm... I wouldn't trust just any website spouting crap for my own research as a grad student... but we do have online catalogues from refereed journals. I HATE the library. Spending hours hunting down books in a musty building isn't my idea of fun. Why wade through all that crap when I can turn on my computer, go to the university website, and look at psychological journals through PsychInfo?
What's that? My university hasn't scanned in that book? Well then, I'll just log onto the province-wide initiative and check THEIR online resources!
What would take me literally days in a library takes me a couple hours at home.

Does doing work in the comfort of your own home make you stupid?
Hah! I think not. Wasting hours hunting when there's a faster, more convenient option is the stupid thing to do.
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 22:21
Does doing work in the comfort of your own home make you stupid? Hah! I think not. Wasting hours hunting when there's a faster, more convenient option is the stupid thing to do.
Um ... wouldn't it be best if you could do both? :confused:
IL Ruffino
26-03-2006, 22:23
Eut.. I seriously have no idea what all those blobs of letters you posted meant.. But I'll stick with google.

***AMAZING IDEA***

Google should offer a recipy search where they don't show links, but show the recipy.

***BACK TO STUPIDITY***
Ipods listeners
26-03-2006, 22:24
http://www.brc.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~actan/gallery/Mona-Lisa.jpg
http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe.shtml
http://pie.allrecipes.com/az/ApplePiebyGrandmaOple.asp
five mins
German Nightmare
26-03-2006, 22:24
"Cherman engineering, inna howwwse!" :D
*lacht lauthals*
Nadkor
26-03-2006, 22:26
@ Nadkor: Hey, I didn't know that Bibliomania site before - that could become a really useful resource, I already bookmarked it. Thanks for posting it. :)

Neither did I, but it's amazing what Google can bring up :)

And I love how of course the BBC's apple pie is all "proper" and whatnot. Hee. Silly Brits.
Oh yes, it has to be "Proper Apple Pie" in the British Broadcasting Corporation.
Gargantua City State
26-03-2006, 22:28
Um ... wouldn't it be best if you could do both? :confused:

Ummm... I would be fine with libraries (the buildings) being torn down, or used for something else. I like the approach some of my prof's have taken where they give assignments in lower year courses to students to use computers to find articles, to get them used to using the system.
I really don't see any point in keeping libraries around, except maybe as back-up museums for books, in case there was a massive EMP blast that wiped out all electronic records/devices.
If I had an employee/student who was wasting their time hunting around for books to get one article in the time I can get 10, I would teach them about the electronic system to make their lives easier.
Save time so you can do things you enjoy. :) Unless you enjoy libraries... but I haven't met many people who do. ;)
Seosavists
26-03-2006, 22:34
Ummm... I would be fine with libraries (the buildings) being torn down, or used for something else. I like the approach some of my prof's have taken where they give assignments in lower year courses to students to use computers to find articles, to get them used to using the system.
I really don't see any point in keeping libraries around, except maybe as back-up museums for books, in case there was a massive EMP blast that wiped out all electronic records/devices.
If I had an employee/student who was wasting their time hunting around for books to get one article in the time I can get 10, I would teach them about the electronic system to make their lives easier.
Save time so you can do things you enjoy. :) Unless you enjoy libraries... but I haven't met many people who do. ;)
Libraries now adays have internet access, so people who don't have it at home or if you're temporarily offline can use it for free. Plus I and lots of other people don't like reading whole books on a screen. (I know you can print it out but that takes longer then going to the library and costs more money!)


EDIT:
Also most books aren't on the net!
Desperate Measures
26-03-2006, 22:38
Many students seem to lack the skills to structure their searches so they can find useful information quickly. In 2002, graduate students at Tel Aviv University were asked to find on the Web, with no time limit, a picture of the Mona Lisa; the complete text of either "Robinson Crusoe" or "David Copperfield"; and a recipe for apple pie accompanied by a photograph. Only 15 percent succeeded at all three assignments.[/B] [ Try this yourself and post your findings, please! ]


http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vinci/joconde/joconde.jpg
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=DefCru1.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=all
http://pie.allrecipes.com/az/AmericanApplePie.asp
Soviet Haaregrad
26-03-2006, 22:41
I found all the items through Wikipedia, they link to eBooks for free versions of most classic literature and Wikibooks has a more recipes then you could ever make in a lifetime.

It is mankind's highest achievement.
Dakini
26-03-2006, 23:00
1. Mona Lisa
http://www.brc.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~actan/gallery.html

2. Robinson Crusoe
http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe6a.shtml

3. Apple Pie recipe with photograph.
http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Canning/pie-apple.html

1. First link on google images
2. First link that comes up after inputing Robinson Crusoe
3. Third link in google images, also first link in a regular search had an image of an apple pie, but I didn't like it very much, so I found another one.

How lazy were these people who didn't do this assignment? It took me less than two minutes.

It's almost as sad as hearing about the MIT graduates who coudln't figure out how to make a lightbulb glow with some wire, a lightbulb and a battery.
Dakini
26-03-2006, 23:05
Ummm... I would be fine with libraries (the buildings) being torn down, or used for something else. I like the approach some of my prof's have taken where they give assignments in lower year courses to students to use computers to find articles, to get them used to using the system.
I really don't see any point in keeping libraries around, except maybe as back-up museums for books, in case there was a massive EMP blast that wiped out all electronic records/devices.
If I had an employee/student who was wasting their time hunting around for books to get one article in the time I can get 10, I would teach them about the electronic system to make their lives easier.
Save time so you can do things you enjoy. :) Unless you enjoy libraries... but I haven't met many people who do. ;)
Libraries are a good place to study and are filled with books and many journal articles that aren't always available online. While my school gives me electronic access to many journals, there are many journals that don't put any article written before 1990 online and on occasion, articles before 1990 are useful.
Also, reading books online sucks donkey balls and books are excellent sources of information as well. So you find your one article, I'll find several spanning a number of years as well as a number of books written on the subject and get a more comprehensive view of the subject.
Oxfordland
26-03-2006, 23:07
Mona Lisa (http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Exempla/Davinci-mona-lisa-1503-06.jpg)

Complete text of Robinsin Crusoe (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/17/31/frameset.html) (and, just for good measure, David Copperfield (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/19/1992/frameset.html).)

Apple Pie recipe, complete with picture (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/maryhenrysproperappl_67463.shtml)

Took about a minute.

It took me about two seconds. I just scrolled down and found your links.

I win! :)
Eutrusca
26-03-2006, 23:12
*lacht lauthals*
Translation?
Luna Amore
26-03-2006, 23:21
http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Exempla/Davinci-mona-lisa-1503-06.jpg
http://www.learnlibrary.com/rob-crusoe/
http://pie.allrecipes.com/az/AmericanApplePie.asp

Am I missing something? It took a minute. I worry for those graduate students.
Nadkor
26-03-2006, 23:21
It took me about two seconds. I just scrolled down and found your links.

I win! :)
Cheat! :p
Luna Amore
26-03-2006, 23:22
http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Exempla/Davinci-mona-lisa-1503-06.jpg
http://www.learnlibrary.com/rob-crusoe/
http://pie.allrecipes.com/az/AmericanApplePie.asp

Am I missing something? It took a minute. I worry for those graduate students.And for kicks and five seconds more here's David Copperfield:
http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/19/1992/frameset.html
Whereyouthinkyougoing
26-03-2006, 23:26
Translation?
*laughs out loud* (like "throws his head back and laughs out loud" kind of loud)
Dissonant Cognition
26-03-2006, 23:54
Many students seem to lack the skills to structure their searches so they can find useful information quickly. In 2002, graduate students at Tel Aviv University were asked to find on the Web, with no time limit, a picture of the Mona Lisa; the complete text of either "Robinson Crusoe" or "David Copperfield"; and a recipe for apple pie accompanied by a photograph. Only 15 percent succeeded at all three assignments. [ Try this yourself and post your findings, please! ]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_lisa

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/David_Copperfield


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pie (See also "External Links" at the bottom of that page)
Even Better: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Apple_pie



Wikis are good. With their own built-in search engines too!