NationStates Jolt Archive

Which do you prefer?

personally, I've only once been to a sweat lodge. I was sure I'd die there. Can't wait to go again:)

I've never been to either, so I have no idea.

You thieved what we were talking about, you discussion topic thief, you!

Spa, as in hottub? I love them! Always wanted to put one in the middle of my backyard in winter and take a nudy-dip, wannna help make my dream come true?

I am known in my house for clogging every possible hole (hehe) in the bathroom (hehe) and turning the shower on the hottest possible. I likeh teh steam baths.

You thieved what we were talking about, you discussion topic thief, you!
You were already thieving the thread, you thread thieving waffler!

Those familiar with the sweat lodge, do you have visions and stuff? Or just pain and ground-biting?

Sweat lodge? Is that the Native American sauna?

Sweat lodge? Is that the Native American sauna?
yes

Therapeutic mudbaths.

:)

You were already thieving the thread, you thread thieving waffler!

It was a Deep Kimchi thread. Someone had to be merciful to it.

Bathing .... what is?

I voted "spa" assuming you meant hot tub, but in case I'm wrong and you mean the full spa experience, I stand behind my vote at least nine times stronger.

Spa-treatment is God's gift to....me.

Just FYI, a sweatlodge is a Native American purification rite that has signifigant religious meaning. The spa and the sauna are great for sweating out toxins, but the sweatlodge is for ridding yourself of the mental and spiritual toxins more than the physical ones.

Theatricalis']The spa and the sauna are great for sweating out toxins, but the sweatlodge is for ridding yourself of the mental and spiritual toxins more than the physical ones.
Talk to an übernationalist Finn and they'll say the same! ;)

Theatricalis']Just FYI, a sweatlodge is a Native American purification rite that has signifigant religious meaning. The spa and the sauna are great for sweating out toxins, but the sweatlodge is for ridding yourself of the mental and spiritual toxins more than the physical ones.

PowerDeTox

Talk to an übernationalist Finn and they'll say the same! ;)

Many Yoopers will make similar statements. But since many Yoopers are Finns, I guess it's a moot point.

I've been to all three and I'll say sweat lodge.

A nice cedar sauna is verrry relaxing

Though it's been pointed out, I'd like to reiterate. Sweat lodges are very spiritual events. Likely, if you've gone to one, it's been as a 'tourist'. But please don't class it in with saunas and spas. It's like saying that sitting inside a building is the same as praying in a church.

It's like saying that sitting inside a building is the same as praying in a church.

It's not? They're both kind of futile things in and of themselves.

It's not? They're both kind of futile things in and of themselves.
It'd be futile for us, as atheists, and both would have about the same level of importance. But for those people that believe in a God, sitting in a building is not equal to sitting in a church.

For most native people, a sweat lodge is not something you do 'just because', and it certainly isn't the same as a sauna. Just because it is meaningless for those people who go into a sweat lodge with no cultural conception of what a sweat is, that does not mean the sweat lodge itself is meaningless. If you're not one for sitting in churches, when it means nothing to you, then don't sit in on a sweat. Not only is it pointless, it's insulting to those of us who consider the sweat to be an important event.

It'd be futile for us, as atheists, and both would have about the same level of importance. But for those people that believe in a God, sitting in a building is not equal to sitting in a church.

*wonders why that matters*

For most native people, a sweat lodge is not something you do 'just because', and it certainly isn't the same as a sauna. Just because it is meaningless for those people who go into a sweat lodge with no cultural conception of what a sweat is, that does not mean the sweat lodge itself is meaningless. If you're not one for sitting in churches, when it means nothing to you, then don't sit in on a sweat. Not only is it pointless, it's insulting to those of us who consider the sweat to be an important event.

If I can go and take flash photos in Notre Dame, I'll bloody well spend some time in a Sweat Lodge and defile their culture with my debauched tourism, thank yee.

Many Yoopers will make similar statements. But since many Yoopers are Finns, I guess it's a moot point.
Yes, yes it is. :)

*wonders why that matters* I'm just pointing out that what is true for you, is not true for others. If you don't respect that difference, that's fine.


If I can go and take flash photos in Notre Dame, I'll bloody well spend some time in a Sweat Lodge and defile their culture with my debauched tourism, thank yee. Ah well, since you'll likely be spending time in a Sweat Lodge directed by some bohunk whitey posing as an Iroquois, I'm not too worried about you defiling an actual sweat:)

I've never been in any of them.

*weeps*

I'm just pointing out that what is true for you, is not true for others. If you don't respect that difference, that's fine.

Goody.

Ah well, since you'll likely be spending time in a Sweat Lodge directed by some bohunk whitey posing as an Iroquois, I'm not too worried about you defiling an actual sweat:)

Yes, because it's not like Native Americans sell their culture for some trinkets and casino vouchers already, just like everyone else.

I've never been in any of them.

*weeps*
Enter bathroom. Close door. Put a towel against the bottom of the door to prevent heat from escaping. Turn on shower, full blast, on the hottest setting you have. Voila. You have a sauna.

"Spa, Sauna, or SweatLodge?"

Yes! :)

You have a sauna.
No, no you don't have sauna. You have shower steam.

Yes, because it's not like Native Americans sell their culture for some trinkets and casino vouchers already, just like everyone else.
Yes, well, that is certainly more true of some of the US 'tribes' whose members are made up of mostly blond-haired, blue eyed folk...buy a dream-catcher on your way out...

But selling little tourist packages does not mean you're getting the real deal. Maybe you can buy an Indian name too...

Somehow, Fass, you don't strike me as a 'cultural' tourist.

Enter bathroom. Close door. Put a towel against the bottom of the door to prevent heat from escaping. Turn on shower, full blast, on the hottest setting you have. Voila. You have a sauna.

I may just try this when I get home. Thank you.

No, no you don't have sauna. You have shower steam.
Shhh. I can't afford the other, so I have to make believe a little. This balogna sandwich is actually braised lobster. Alright?

Sweat lodge? Is that the Native American sauna?

No it is NOT. It is a very solemn ceremony of prayer and meditation. It is done in 4 or 5 parts depending on what it is for. It is not done "just to sweat" like in a sauna.

the Grokdoc

Though it's been pointed out, I'd like to reiterate. Sweat lodges are very spiritual events. Likely, if you've gone to one, it's been as a 'tourist'. But please don't class it in with saunas and spas. It's like saying that sitting inside a building is the same as praying in a church.
Reason for classing it in with sauna: Uncomfortably hot, makes you sweat, lots of ritual to it. (no, not that circle, go clockwise)

Chocolate drinking used to be an exclusively spiritual thing to do. Resistance is futile. I shall go again tomorrow.:)

I may just try this when I get home. Thank you.
You are only cheating yourself. (http://cankar.org/sauna/index.html)
Shhh. I can't afford the other, so I have to make believe a little. This balogna sandwich is actually braised lobster. Alright?
Who came up with the word 'balogna'? That word is such crap. It misrepresents itself to my eyes.

Who came up with the word 'balogna'? That word is such crap. It misrepresents itself to my eyes.
It's Italian, is it not? But some people have chosen to spell it baloney...balogna is too confusing. But baloney? Why not call it what it is? Lips and a**holes...

Yes, well, that is certainly more true of some of the US 'tribes' whose members are made up of mostly blond-haired, blue eyed folk...buy a dream-catcher on your way out...

Oh, please, look at you, acting all holier than thou. Your culture is just as much for sale as anyone else's.

But selling little tourist packages does not mean you're getting the real deal. Maybe you can buy an Indian name too...

Two Dogs Fucking isn't? Hopes you've seen Priscilla - Queen of the Desert to catch that reference.

Somehow, Fass, you don't strike me as a 'cultural' tourist.

No, I'm pretty much a drunk one.

No it is NOT. It is a very solemn ceremony of prayer and meditation. It is done in 4 or 5 parts depending on what it is for. It is not done "just to sweat" like in a sauna.
Sauna has history (http://cankar.org/sauna/origins/culture_main.html) as well. Its not just to sweat.

Oh, please, look at you, acting all holier than thou. Your culture is just as much for sale as anyone else's. And just like all other cultures, there are those of us to object to those of us who sell trinkets and 'real life Indian spiritual practices' to tourists. And just getting your hands painted with Henna completely misses the cultural point of doing so, going to a 'real life Indian sweat lodge' does too. If you're into cheap (or sometimes overpriced) imitations, you're welcome to them.


Two Dogs Fucking isn't? Hopes you've seen Priscilla - Queen of the Desert to catch that reference.
Buffalo Shit Foot actually:) I expect a check for $125 Canadian for the 'real life Indian naming ceremony'. Seen it? I own a very worn out copy!

No, I'm pretty much a drunk one.
Good...I was picturing you in one of those horrid US-tourist getups...with the loud 'hawaiin' print T-shirts, zinc oxide on your nose, large floppy hat, shorts and socks with sandals, and a camera hung around your neck. *shudders*

Good...I was picturing you in one of those horrid US-tourist getups...with the loud 'hawaiin' print T-shirts, zinc oxide on your nose, large floppy hat, shorts and socks with sandals, and a camera hung around your neck.
Oh, wow. That's terrible.

Oh, wow. That's terrible.
And the pasty white skin...oh, the horror!

And just like all other cultures, there are those of us to object to those of us who sell trinkets and 'real life Indian spiritual practices' to tourists. And just getting your hands painted with Henna completely misses the cultural point of doing so, going to a 'real life Indian sweat lodge' does too. If you're into cheap (or sometimes overpriced) imitations, you're welcome to them.

That is the same for everyone else. I, however, do not see what's so bad with sharing parts of ones culture and profiting off it to be able to carry that culture on.

Buffalo Shit Foot actually:) I expect a check for $125 Canadian for the 'real life Indian naming ceremony'. [COLOR="White"]Seen it? I own a very worn out copy!

What is that, like €2 in real money? Kudos. You just grew even more in my esteem.

Good...I was picturing you in one of those horrid US-tourist getups...with the loud 'hawaiin' print T-shirts, zinc oxide on your nose, large floppy hat, shorts and socks with sandals, and a camera hung around your neck. *shudders*

I like to pretend I'm one of the locals and act all rude towards the US tourists. They tend to know so little about the country they're in, that they fall for it.

That is the same for everyone else. I, however, do not see what's so bad with sharing parts of ones culture and profiting off it to be able to carry that culture on. Sharing our culture is a lot different than profiting of fake imitations of our culture...which does nothing to help preserve our culture. I can guarantee you this...if you meet a native person who is willing to sell you spiritual or medicinal 'traditional' information, you'll be buying a load of shit. We take these things very seriously, and because of past encounters, avoid anthropological tourists. We're done with being studied...because it has always been used against us. Cultural preservation is something we fight for everyday...not something we need to comercialise.


What is that, like €2 in real money? Kudos. You just grew even more in my esteem.
I'm not sure...that might be a little high right now:) My brother created an outfit very similar to the one worn during the scene atop the bus. That movie is fantastic!
I like to pretend I'm one of the locals and act all rude towards the US tourists. They tend to know so little about the country they're in, that they fall for it.
That won't work in Canada...we have a reputation for being ridiculously polite:) You'll stick out like a sore thumb if you act like a jerk!

Sharing our culture is a lot different than profiting of fake imitations of our culture...which does nothing to help preserve our culture...

Do you really want your culture preserved??

Because that is the first step towards the museum, which equals stagnation and death.

Do you really want your culture preserved??Yes. In formaldehyde.

Because that is the first step towards the museum, which equals stagnation and death.
No, by the preservation of culture, I mean the refusal to allow it to be stripped away, piece by piece, and relegated to the domain of kitch. Preserve, in this sense, does not mean 'keep in stasis'.

I had an interesting thought during the lunch break. Perhaps we should start a series of tours through Reservation lands for interested folks. We'd put them in a big bus with windows, and they could view, without having to actually get close to, our people in their natural habitat:)

No, by the preservation of culture, I mean the refusal to allow it to be stripped away, piece by piece, and relegated to the domain of kitch.

Oh, bitch didn't just diss kitch! *pulls his clip-ons off one at a time, dramatically*

Oh, bitch didn't just diss kitch!
Bitch did. Z-snap me all you want. And put the clip-ons back on...I'm a pacifist, remember?

Bitch did. Z-snap me all you want. And put the clip-ons back on...I'm a pacifist, remember?

I'mma pacify yo' skanky ass, that's what I'mma do, for bein' all ignant like that. Kitch is the hight of culture, foo'.

I'mma pacify yo' skanky ass, that's what I'mma do, for bein' all ignant like that. Kitch is the hight of culture, foo'.
Careful...you're slipping into gay jive talking. I only speak a minor variant of tranny jive.

Careful...you're slipping into gay jive talking. I only speak a minor variant of tranny jive.

Honey, you all had to go there, mmmhhmm. You know what to talk to. I'm off to sleep. Early morning, like evrey other morning in this wretched life I like to call my own.

Yes. In formaldehyde.


No, by the preservation of culture, I mean the refusal to allow it to be stripped away, piece by piece, and relegated to the domain of kitch. Preserve, in this sense, does not mean 'keep in stasis'.

I had an interesting thought during the lunch break. Perhaps we should start a series of tours through Reservation lands for interested folks. We'd put them in a big bus with windows, and they could view, without having to actually get close to, our people in their natural habitat:)

Everything goes through kitch phases. It is like global digestion.

As for that bus idea...it brings up so many non pc thoughts and visions...