NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you trust Russia? It is know they still have tons of nukes and things hidden from the world. ready to go! Also Putin has recently started closeing News agencies that talked badly about him.I dont call that free! And just in the news yestersay is Russia gave Iraq, allied troop movements during the Iraq 2003 war.

So I dont at all.

What a weird question! Yes, they have shitloads of n00ks that they don't speak about but that crime is comitted by numerous nations, USA included. Have they used them? Nope. Is there any reason to think that they would? Nope.

I trust USA much less than the current Russia... Though you are right about the declining democracy. It's not a good sign. In any case, they aren't stupid enough to start trying to invade anyone (something you can't say about USA...) beyond their natural sphere of influence.

EDIT: You have too big signature, BTW. Check the stickies, I believe it is mentioned there.

I certainly trust Russia. I don't trust the Russian government. It's an important distinction to make.

Yes, I trust any nation to do what they percieve is in their own best interest, Russia included.

* I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.
o Speech broadcast on (1 October 1939)

Winston Churchill.

Yes, for the same reason as Eutrusca

I believe that his question ment the predictability (sp?) of the Russian foreign policy. In my opinion, if that's really what was asked, Russia is very reliable in comparison to many others.

The only reason we wouldn't trust them is because of how the American government treated Communist nations way long ago which has left many people believing commies to be evil zombie people. (Even if they aren't), it's not so much if we trust Russia, it's so much if the world trusts the U.S.

Woah, that's deep..
Anyways, I trust Russia.

In diplomatic matters, such as our recent scandal, no. But in economic and strategic matters, especially those that benefit them, yes.

I trust Russia to look out after its interests, just as the U.S. looks after its interests.

Now, ask me if I trust Shrub.

I trust Russia to look out after its interests, just as the U.S. looks after its interests.

Now, ask me if I trust Shrub.
No.

I trust Russia to look out after its interests, just as the U.S. looks after its interests.

Now, ask me if I trust Shrub.


Do you?

*giggles*

I can't say I trust any nation, really. Russia? Yes it has nukes, but so does France. North Korea has nukes and nobody is building bomb shelters. The USA has nukes too, and so far, only they have the precedent of ever using them. Russia may have nukes, but even the most crazy-ass dictator knows that the second he pushed the big red button, everybody else will too.

Russia, as a huge-ass state that it is, needs to be governed by a centralized strong leader, and not necessarily a democratic one. It's gone from Tsarism to Communist Tsarism (where the Tsar was just the head of the communist party) to "democracy", which as we all know is just the dictatorship of the majority. If Russia goes back to a non-democracy, I'll be about as surprised as I'd be if China went back to being an empire. The alternative is to cut up Russia into a bunch of smaller countries and organize them well to become real countries.

Of course, only Chechnyans and other such groups really want that.

As much as I trust any other country.

I trust Russia as far as I can throw it. It's led by a guy who, while not a dictator, isn't exactly a peaceful, democratic leader.

I don't particularly trust the Russian government, for several reasons. Beyond the obvious fact that their President is Vlad Putin, who spent his days under the Soviet regime as a KGB officer, and continues to make undemocratic steps, they also have the mob/corruption problem. It's tough to consider anything regarding the Russian government as trustworthy.

I don't trust any government.

No, I don't trust Russia. Putin has said that he's not particularly interested in making Russia a liberal democracy, and his actions have shown so. He has also been meddling in the affairs of local countries, such as the Ukraine, to bend those nations to his will. He's also had people arrested for little reason, often for simply being Jewish. So no, I don't trust Russia.

Russia, as a huge-ass state that it is, needs to be governed by a centralized strong leader, and not necessarily a democratic one. It's gone from Tsarism to Communist Tsarism (where the Tsar was just the head of the communist party) to "democracy", which as we all know is just the dictatorship of the majority. If Russia goes back to a non-democracy, I'll be about as surprised as I'd be if China went back to being an empire. The alternative is to cut up Russia into a bunch of smaller countries and organize them well to become real countries.

Of course, only Chechnyans and other such groups really want that.

Well, there has been a surge of state-sponsered nationalism in Russia the last few years, which pretty much started when Putin came to power. If this continues I'd see Russia slowly revolving back into a tsarism of some sort.

And the recent hassle about Russia is caused by their renewed nationalism which is reaffirming the russian identity. After their communist system collapsed they didn't really have a position left in world politics, at the moment they are creating some space for themselves again in the world politics.

It's not often that someone annoys me so much that I actually say something about it, in fact this is only the second time I have ever done this. Firstly anyone who believes that america has ever been a true democracy and has ever been uncorrupt is a fool as is anyone who likes bush. Secondly america during the cold war said that Communism was evil and had to be contained and that it was undemocratic and all that. Of course you have to question why in Vietnam the americans held elections in the south whilst the Rusiians just installed a Communist government but in Korea in the same situation the americans refused to hold elections because they were afraid that the Communists would win. Thirdly someone said the Russians had Communist Tsarism. No they did not they shot him and his entire family in a cellar in the woods. Also as everyone knows the Russians never had true Communism or Marxism they had Leninism and Stalinism. True Communism does NOT have a dictator.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

56% dont trust Russia. Well, thats gotta mean something.

56% dont trust Russia. Well, thats gotta mean something.

Depends on the source of that statistic. If it's http://www.anti-russia.org, I wouldn't put too much faith into that number.

56% dont trust Russia. Well, thats gotta mean something.

Yes, it means that there are plenty of fools around. It has nothing to do with the reliability of Russia... :rolleyes:

It's not often that someone annoys me so much that I actually say something about it, in fact this is only the second time I have ever done this. Firstly anyone who believes that america has ever been a true democracy and has ever been uncorrupt is a fool as is anyone who likes bush. Secondly america during the cold war said that Communism was evil and had to be contained and that it was undemocratic and all that. Of course you have to question why in Vietnam the americans held elections in the south whilst the Rusiians just installed a Communist government but in Korea in the same situation the americans refused to hold elections because they were afraid that the Communists would win. Thirdly someone said the Russians had Communist Tsarism. No they did not they shot him and his entire family in a cellar in the woods. Also as everyone knows the Russians never had true Communism or Marxism they had Leninism and Stalinism. True Communism does NOT have a dictator.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

Unfortunately, most communist leaders have taken a step away from the communism of the cold war era. That's because they disagreed with the dictatorship. Supporting Russia's communism/stalinism doesn't help matters.

And I am not sure whether to trust Russia or not. I guess you can trust them, but chances are they won't tell you anything that you wouldn't trust.

Depends on the source of that statistic. If it's http://www.anti-russia.org, I wouldn't put too much faith into that number.

It's from the Poll :D

It's true that the Russian government has done a lot of crap, but so has the US government.
On the whole, I'd say that the US government is clearly worse and less trustworthy, so I answered "Yes".

What a weird question! Yes, they have shitloads of n00ks that they don't speak about but that crime is comitted by numerous nations, USA included. Have they used them? Nope. Is there any reason to think that they would? Nope.

I trust USA much less than the current Russia... Though you are right about the declining democracy. It's not a good sign. In any case, they aren't stupid enough to start trying to invade anyone (something you can't say about USA...) beyond their natural sphere of influence.
I fully agree there. US has a declining democracy as well, with more and more freaky laws coming up limiting the rights... also, it's not quite proper to call US a democracy since Bush faked the last two elections :rolleyes:
Quite obvious with the first, less obvious with the second - but once you're in power, you have all the means to cheat less obviously.

@Nostveria:
True, most people have no idea what true comminism actually is. It has only little to do with what Russia currently practices, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what China does!

I don't trust any national government, i'm afraid.

Well, I suppose the Andorrans are pretty harmless, and Bhutan ain't hurt me none.

It's from the Poll :D
Oh well, I guess in that case, it's totally reliable. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The alternative is to cut up Russia into a bunch of smaller countries and organize them well to become real countries.

That was the idea I had in my imaginary conquest of the world. I carved Russia into 16 states (or Hexters, as I've called them) in my empire.

Wanna see a map?

Do you trust Russia? It is know they still have tons of nukes and things hidden from the world. ready to go! Also Putin has recently started closeing News agencies that talked badly about him.I dont call that free! And just in the news yestersay is Russia gave Iraq, allied troop movements during the Iraq 2003 war.

Do I trust Russia? Depends what I'm trusting them with. I would trust them to build a sturdy jet fighter.

But I'd probably shy away from letting them handle hostage situations in schools. :p

I trust Putin's Russia more than Bush's USsia.

Do you trust Russia? It is know they still have tons of nukes and things hidden from the world. ready to go! Also Putin has recently started closeing News agencies that talked badly about him.I dont call that free! And just in the news yestersay is Russia gave Iraq, allied troop movements during the Iraq 2003 war.

I think that Putin is trying to Rebuild Russia internally and using the only successful tactics to do this that have worked before (i.e United Socialist States of Russian). He is also trying to get more International recognition by opposing the US Invasion of Iraq and now trying to get Iran to stop Nuclear development (basiclly folowing world opinion). Although the Russian state at the moment is generally in poor health with Chechens, 'Rouge' Oil owners and the Ukrainian 'Orange Revolt' Russia will one day rise with after China as a World Oil Giant after the middle-east runs out of Oil.

I am not sure of his Putins Intentions but as long as he doesnt start invading Middle-eastern nations or the 'Rouge' Baltic nations or kill thousends or even millions of his own people I say let him carry on rebuilding Russia.

I trust Russia

I wouldn't trust Russia if the apocalypse came and it was up to them to save the human race.

I trust Putin's Russia more than Bush's USsia.
hear hear!

I don't trust any state, especially not powerful ones.

Nope, I don't trust Russia. I don't really trust any government, including my own.

Soomeone said that Communism today has fortunately moved away from dictatorship. Thats the oppisite of what I was saying. True Communism is the only way forward. Also if anyone thinks that the Irish Communist Party is something on nationstates then you are wrong. It is an actual party and will contest elections in the next decade. I absolutley trust Russia. Its america you have to watch out for.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

Soomeone said that Communism today has fortunately moved away from dictatorship. Thats the oppisite of what I was saying. True Communism is the only way forward. Also if anyone thinks that the Irish Communist Party is something on nationstates then you are wrong. It is an actual party and will contest elections in the next decade. I absolutley trust Russia. Its america you have to watch out for.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

I have a question, maybe the word Communist is loosing you votes so why not rename your selfs "The Irish Socialist Party" (Just a though)

Kievan-prussia: Sure, why not?

Mc Carthy: Sorry you misunderstood my post, what I meant to say was that the leaders of "communist" Russia (read my sig) had pretty much the same system in place the tsar had in 1916. The Tsar, his family, friends, and their friends lived extremely well, and made sure that anybody useful lived well too (Mostly Generals and powerful aristocrats), while the rest of society was pretty much on their own while Alex was partying in Paris.

Under the Communists, it was the same thing, it was now military, scientists and people of the party had privileges, and the average guy got a soup bowl a day instead of a big pile of nothing.

I have a question, maybe the word Communist is loosing you votes so why not rename your selfs "The Irish Socialist Party" (Just a though)
There is already a different party with the name socialist party. "The Irish communist party" I haven't heard of before and has no seats in the dáil(parlimint) or the Senad(senate)

I trust them as much as I trust the US.

It's gone from Tsarism to Communist Tsarism (where the Tsar was just the head of the communist party)
Not really. There were a huge amount of differences between the USSR and the Russian Empire, especially before Stalin took control.

Also as everyone knows the Russians never had true Communism or Marxism they had Leninism and Stalinism. True Communism does NOT have a dictator.

Brian McCarthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party
It's an honour to have a leader of a political party on here. (no matter how small)

It's true that the Russian government has done a lot of crap, but so has the US government.
On the whole, I'd say that the US government is clearly worse and less trustworthy, so I answered "Yes".
Why do you have to trust Russia if you don't trust America? Can you not trust neither country's government?

I trust Putin's Russia more than Bush's USsia.
Why is that? It doesn't surprise me that most people voting "Yes" couldn't defend their position without mentioning Bush or America.

Putin is more authoritarian than Bush. His war in Chechnya has killed over ten times more people than Bush's wars. The only thing I can think of where he is better than Bush is his ratification of the Kyoto protocol.

I don't trust either country.

Also if anyone thinks that the Irish Communist Party is something on nationstates then you are wrong. It is an actual party and will contest elections in the next decade. I absolutley trust Russia. Its america you have to watch out for.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party
I look forward to watching the ICP enter mainstream consciousness in this country. I wasn't aware of you til very recently. Is your party Trotskyist or what?

On topic, would you be able to give reasons for trusting Russia other than "America is worse?"

Do you trust Russia? It is know they still have tons of nukes and things hidden from the world. ready to go! Also Putin has recently started closeing News agencies that talked badly about him.I dont call that free! And just in the news yestersay is Russia gave Iraq, allied troop movements during the Iraq 2003 war.
I could care less.

After all, nuermous other nations *cough*US*cough* have massive stockpiles of undisclosed weapons and their own human rights violations.

And you thought the Cold War was over? It's likely all just for good PR.

I have a question, maybe the word Communist is loosing you votes so why not rename your selfs "The Irish Socialist Party" (Just a though)

There is already an Irish Socialist Party, one that is actually socialist, unlike most so-called "socialist" parties.

There is also a Stalinist (at least formerly Stalinist) Communist Party of Ireland.

I could care less.

After all, nuermous other nations *cough*US*cough* have massive stockpiles of undisclosed weapons and their own human rights violations.

Why is everyone bringing up the US as a reason to trust Russia? Why do you assume that everyone who doesn't trust Russia trusts the US?

I trust them in the sense that I trust China; they have everything to lose by attacking the US (economically or militarily) and nothing to gain, so it is naturally going to be in their own best interests to pursue policies and courses of action that would be of benefit to themselves as well as to the United States.

And since that degree of interdependence will only increase as time passes, I will trust them more and more to do what is in our mutual interest rather than individual interests. On the international scale, rational self-interest ultimately requires them to pursue favorable relations with the US, and therefore they will pursue the course of action that maximizes their benefit from such actions.

I trust Russia about as far as I can throw it.
Last time I checked Russia ranked #1 in the world in size.

I trust Russia about as far as I can throw it.
Last time I checked Russia ranked #1 in the world in size.
AHH It's atlas the greek Titan who holds up the world and he trusts Russia a lot!!

Yess, I trust russia. just not its governmint

I think that people really shouldn’t think of Russia the same way they do America. They’re very different cultures with very different histories. Death is viewed very differently in Russia for instance. The US already backed Yeltson, despite knowing he was in league with Russian Mafia. That sort of stupidity should have gone out with Batista. Most of the aid money the US sent during the Clinton years got siphoned off by the Mafia. Putin has put a bit of stability into an unstable nation. As nasty a piece of work he was he’s what they needed after Western interference got us the most corrupt buffoon available.

I wouldn’t trust Putin. I mean this guy ordered his people to carry out bombings of apartment buildings in Russia to justify a renewed war effort against Chechnya. How can you trust someone like that. Putin’s interests are in crushing his rivals and restoring the power of Russia (sort of like just about every other national leader). Sure he has tons of nukes but who exactly is going to go over there and ask very nicely if he would care to disarm? You? The US? It’s not going to happen. You'll get their nukes over their irradiated bodies and nothing less, which of course means your irradiated bodies.

Of course instead of giving Putin a free hand to do whatever he wants by the Americans pursuing questionable foreign policy, if they have a problem with Russia they need to get their own house in order. The War on Terror is being used by a lot more nations that the US to pursue draconian policies against dissidents (like some of the Chinese crackdowns where they referred to groups of people as terrorists and moved on in, in the wake of the US movements).

I actually trust Putin to do more in the interests of his people than Bush would. And that’s a very scary conclusion.

I've got a few more things to say. Someone said we have no seats in the dail or the seanad (you spelled it wrong genius). If you read my post you would have seen the bit about how we won't contest elections until sometime in the next decade. Thank you to the people who complimented me and to whoever asked we are not Trotskyite we are Marxist. A lot of people seem to have a problem spelling the word government, its disgracful spelling it govermint.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

In Soviet Russia, foreigners distrust you!

Thank you to the people who complimented me and to whoever asked we are not Trotskyite we are Marxist. A lot of people seem to have a problem spelling the word government, its disgracful spelling it govermint.

Brian McCarthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party
That's the American "education" system for you!

You don't need to name yourself and your status in every post. People will think you're a blowhard. At least put it in your signature.

I trust Russia in the sense that I don't fear an attack by them, but in other ways they are less predictable and even seek to undermine US efforts. The area of democratization is one example. In many of the former Soviet Republics, Putin and the Kremlin have provided aid to corrupt dictators and supressed revolutionary movements. One example is the Ukraine, where Putin backed Viktor Yannukovych in last years elections despite his obvious corrupt practices. This demonstrates that Russian aims and American aims clash in the area of democracy. Russia wants continued subjugation of the former Soviet Republics, whereas the US wants them to have closer ties to Europe.

I've got a few more things to say. Someone said we have no seats in the dail or the seanad (you spelled it wrong genius). If you read my post you would have seen the bit about how we won't contest elections until sometime in the next decade. Thank you to the people who complimented me and to whoever asked we are not Trotskyite we are Marxist. A lot of people seem to have a problem spelling the word government, its disgracful spelling it govermint.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party
Don't take offence, I was merely replying to why you don't use socialist instead of communist to get more votes, the reason being is there is already another socialist party and they are more widely known.

It's disgraceful not disgracful. (don't you just love irony!)

I dont trust Russia, they are still bunch of Commis if you ask me. Then we find out Russia helped Saddam kill Americans? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave the terrorists the planes they used on 9/11.

Ha ha ha ha.

Wotta maroon...

*slaps knee*

Ha ha ha ha.

Wotta maroon...

*slaps knee*
Ow! My knee! Usually you slap you're own knee not mine!



He's a comedian!

I dont trust Russia, they are still bunch of Commis if you ask me. Then we find out Russia helped Saddam kill Americans? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave the terrorists the planes they used on 9/11.

Just like stinger missiles that the US give various rebel groups to help kill russians, aye?

tool.

Just like stinger missiles that the US give various rebel groups to help kill russians, aye?

tool.
The difference is the Soviets illegally invaded a soveriegn nation without justification, the US as never done any such thing.

The difference is the Soviets illegally invaded a soveriegn nation without justification, the US as never done any such thing.
You're my favorite.

Why would I? Trust one of the most miserable places in the world? How about not.

Do you?

*giggles*

Yes. I trust Shrub to look out after the interests of American business and the wealthy. Next question.

Russians are closet commies.

I dont trust Russia, they are still bunch of Commis if you ask me. Then we find out Russia helped Saddam kill Americans? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave the terrorists the planes they used on 9/11.

Odd. I thought those plans were part of the AMerican and United Airlines fleets.


Russians are closet commies.

Having spent some time in Russia in the last few years, I can assure you, the vast majority of Russian I met are anything but communist, having little good to say of the Soviet Era.

Do you trust Russia? I trust very few people.
It is know they still have tons of nukes and things hidden from the world. ready to go! Not very well hidden if we all know about them. Also Putin has recently started closeing News agencies that talked badly about him.I dont call that free! And just in the news yestersay is Russia gave Iraq, allied troop movements during the Iraq 2003 war.

Provide links for this stuff please.

For all those who have answere "Russia is teh commies" etc., let me point out one essential thing: the only nationalism to play a significant part in the destruction of the USSR was the Russian one. The only constituent country who has shown its will to have the Soviet legacy buried is the Russian Republic - this was voiced eloquently by Yeltsin, and is continued by Putin.

The rise in nationalism in the latter years, which may be borrowing communist rhetoric (but nothing more than a superficial one), is moving Russia further away from the spectre of the USSR. In many ways, this mirrors what happened in Yugoslavia, when Serbia played a major part in tearing up the federation, in the hope that new borders will be created - which would get rid of a plural state and lead to the creation of a Greater Serbia (smaller than Yugoslavia, but larger than Serbia, and driven by a "single identity").

Whether this is good or bad remains to be argued (I, personally, would have preferred Gorbachev). In any case, it is true. Get your definitions/suspicions right.

I don't trust anyone who has enough power to destoy the world. I love the US but our government is just asking for a coup.

The difference is the Soviets illegally invaded a soveriegn nation without justification, the US as never done any such thing.

Thanks for the new sig!

The difference is the Soviets illegally invaded a soveriegn nation without justification, the US as never done any such thing.


Illigal you say, by whom? *thinks of the only orthodox intl body that can give blessings to wars* The United Nations. The Americans did that too. And oddly enough, when the Russians invaded a nation illigaly, the Americans sent stingers and guns and other such things. When America invaded a nation illigaly (I.e. with out the blessing of the UN sec concil) The Russians provide intelligence to said nation.

once again, you come up as a snap on product...tool

I absolutley trust Russia. Its america you have to watch out for.

Brian Mc Carthy, Leader of The Irish Communist Party

Come on, we both fought the British multiple times, can't Ireland and the USA get along? Bobby Sands is to Ireland as George Washington is to America.

I don't trust anyone who has enough power to destoy the world. I love the US but our government is just asking for a coup.

Ehhh... didn't over 50% of the American people vote for the current United States government? :rolleyes:

Twice?

I trust Russia about as far as I can throw it.
Last time I checked Russia ranked #1 in the world in size.

True, they have the most land, but most of it is barren tundra, too cold to ever produce anything useful, let alone house citizens.

I hear that there's oil there, though! (Pulls out cowboy hat and pistols)

OIL!!! Yee-haw! *bang* *bang* Your blood, sweat, and tears fuel my SUV! http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/03/texan.jpg YEE-HAW!

I trust Russia more than I trust China.
Which means, almost zero, as I don't trust China at all.

Trust Russians? Wha?

As much I trust the USA and China - 0.

Kievan-prussia: Sure, why not?

Only 'cause you asked.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3327/russianhexters6po.png

I dont trust Russia, they are still bunch of Commis if you ask me. Then we find out Russia helped Saddam kill Americans? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave the terrorists the planes they used on 9/11.


The Russians did the right thing helping Saddam. Now don't get me wrong I hate Saddam too after all he is a dictator and a maniacal despot but america invaded a country with no provacation whatsoever after making up some bullsh*t story about WMDs just to steal Iraq's oil. War on Terror my ass! bush is the world's biggest and most dangerous terrorist and I can't wait to see the day hes assasinated.

With Putin as premier, I would say I do actually. However, given the capacity of Russia to f*ck up world politics, whilst not being a super power as we percieve, I would be suspicios of any less reputable, more politically extreme regime.

What do people have against Communism anyway? Nothing. You think you hav a problem with Communism or Marxism but you are actually against Leninism and Stalinism as are all true Communists. Either that or you're a corrupt capitalist and if that is the case then i hope you burn on your piles of ill gotten money as the people rise up against you and your evil sickening regime.

Come on, we both fought the British multiple times, can't Ireland and the USA get along? Bobby Sands is to Ireland as George Washington is to America.


You need to read up a bit more on Irish history. Bobby Sands is a hero but there are others from earlier who contributed to our freedom. Micheal Collins, Cathal Brugha, Liam Lynch, Eamonn DeValera, Padraig Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt, James Conolly, Tomas Mac Donagh, Mac Diarmada, Clark, Plunkett, Willy Pearse, Countess Markevciez and countless others. Even though some of these people were on oppisite sides during the Civil War they are all heroes and will never be forgotten in Ireland.

What do people have against Communism anyway?


Either that or you're a corrupt capitalist and if that is the case then i hope you burn on your piles of ill gotten money as the people rise up against you and your evil sickening regime.
That doesn't help.

But you're right most people if they knew what what Marxism was wouldn't hate it, they mightn't want it, agree or prefare it to another system but i don't see them hating the idea of it.

Sure, why not? I'm from New Zealand. We're very trusting people.

Nope. But then I don't trust any other country, either.

When Russia aligns itself ever more closely to the EU, I will begin to trust it. Until then, not likely.

As a whole, I trust Russia.

The Russian government scares the HELL out of me, possibly moreso than the American government.

In Russia... We trust

Ok. Russia is our neigbour (Im Finnish). In WW2 we were in war with them. We lost the war, but after all, we were victorious. Finland is still free democratic country.

After Soviet union, Russia has been more kapitalistic country than most of countries in the world. I cant say I fully trust Russian goverment. They are still very powerful country and no one should underestimate them. Im quite sure that they dont want to start war without any reason. Why? EU is very big trade companion for them. Why stop this with stupid war? They still use power politics to ensure their own benefits. And so does USA. But Russia does it only in those small countries, where USA doesn't have any interest.

Money is power. Russians know it and they have enough power to make sure that no one can step on their toes. This is power politics. And always will be! Its not easy to be big country. They need to show it. If they dont, it is always possible that they lose their power and might even collapse under pressure of inner issues. Thats why they cant take the risk.

My own opinion: I want to trust Russians. They are our biggest trade companions and if there is a war bethween NATO and Russia. Im going to war agains them. Its not easy to be officer (we have conscription army) in land on 5 million people, when Russia is your neihgbour.

The difference is the Soviets illegally invaded a soveriegn nation without justification, the US as never done any such thing.
*roaring laughter can be heard* Now that's really a damn good joke! You should think about becoming a comedian, with all those ridiculous comments you always make :D

What do people have against Communism anyway? Nothing. You think you hav a problem with Communism or Marxism but you are actually against Leninism and Stalinism as are all true Communists. Either that or you're a corrupt capitalist and if that is the case then i hope you burn on your piles of ill gotten money as the people rise up against you and your evil sickening regime.

You need to read up a bit more on Irish history. Bobby Sands is a hero but there are others from earlier who contributed to our freedom. Micheal Collins, Cathal Brugha, Liam Lynch, Eamonn DeValera, Padraig Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt, James Conolly, Tomas Mac Donagh, Mac Diarmada, Clark, Plunkett, Willy Pearse, Countess Markevciez and countless others. Even though some of these people were on oppisite sides during the Civil War they are all heroes and will never be forgotten in Ireland.

Look, I love the Irish people. Never in history has there been a more politically active people who treasure their freedom more.

However, I hate communists. There is a reason that every government that has ever attempted to create a utopian commune has always ended up a corrupt dictatorship. That reason is: communism doesn't work. To say that people can be motivated every day by the idea of helping each-other and closing the economic gap; it is ludicrous. Humans are naturally competitive, and will look for any way to gain an edge on their peers, and in capitalist countries, that edge is usually fiscal.

There is no greater incentive than money, and to try and take that away is to disrupt Darwin's natural selection. Maybe I am one of those fat, monocle-wearing, "corrupt capitalists" you spoke of, but I like it that way, and enjoy having a net worth higher than the fat jobless hobo living on the corner of my street.

-An avid advocate of social darwinism

There is no greater incentive than money, and to try and take that away is to disrupt Darwin's natural selection. Maybe I am one of those fat, monocle-wearing, "corrupt capitalists" you spoke of, but I like it that way, and enjoy having a net worth higher than the fat jobless hobo living on the corner of my street.

-An avid advocate of social darwinism
lol Fat jobless hobo.

Why are you worth more then him? Do you know him or do you just assume that it's his fault for being homeless and jobless?

I don't trust Russia to do my laundry...but I do trust them not to blow it up.

Why are you worth more then him? Do you know him or do you just assume that it's his fault for being homeless and jobless?

Really, I like to not think about the the fat jobless hobos at all. The world would run a lot more smoothly if people didn't concern themselves with others so much.

But the arguement I'm trying to make here is that private charities and churches do a much better job of helping poor people (dishing out cash) than leftist governments do. In addition, I'm not forced to pay for something that I don't necessarily believe in. I have nothing against helping poor people out, I just think that it's not the job of the government. I enjoy the option of keeping my money if I so desire.

Really, I like to not think about the the fat jobless hobos at all. The world would run a lot more smoothly if people didn't concern themselves with others so much.

But the arguement I'm trying to make here is that private charities and churches do a much better job of helping poor people (dishing out cash) than leftist governments do. In addition, I'm not forced to pay for something that I don't necessarily believe in. I have nothing against helping poor people out, I just think that it's not the job of the government. I enjoy the option of keeping my money if I so desire.


You should be shot repeatedly. Its because of people like you that the world is in such a shambles. Its full of selfish greedy capitalists who won't lift a finger to help their fellow man. You make me sick.

Really, I like to not think about the the fat jobless hobos at all. The world would run a lot more smoothly if people didn't concern themselves with others so much.
No it wouldn't! Crime would increase and disease would be more frequent.


But the arguement I'm trying to make here is that private charities and churches do a much better job of helping poor people (dishing out cash) than leftist governments do. In addition, I'm not forced to pay for something that I don't necessarily believe in. I have nothing against helping poor people out, I just think that it's not the job of the government. I enjoy the option of keeping my money if I so desire.
Charities and churches can't teach all the poor people properly, so that means that someone is at a disadvantage just because of who their parents are which creates a class which has crappy jobs and the only way out of it is luck not hard honest work, this leads to more crime which effects everyone. They also can't stop epidemics which then spread to the rich people so it also effects everyone.
The poor going from how it is now to how you want it to be wouldn't accept it and would revolt and probably attempt Communism, which you hate so much.

That's why I'd rather pay taxes.

You should be shot repeatedly. Its because of people like you that the world is in such a shambles. Its full of selfish greedy capitalists who won't lift a finger to help their fellow man. You make me sick.
Talk about prejudice. People living in glass houses should not throw rocks. You are doing just that.

What do people have against Communism anyway? Nothing. You think you hav a problem with Communism or Marxism but you are actually against Leninism and Stalinism as are all true Communists. Either that or you're a corrupt capitalist and if that is the case then i hope you burn on your piles of ill gotten money as the people rise up against you and your evil sickening regime.

Because no one has been able to make it work and it goes against human nature.

The Russians did the right thing helping Saddam. Now don't get me wrong I hate Saddam too after all he is a dictator and a maniacal despot but america invaded a country with no provacation whatsoever after making up some bullsh*t story about WMDs just to steal Iraq's oil. War on Terror my ass! bush is the world's biggest and most dangerous terrorist and I can't wait to see the day hes assasinated.

So they did the right thing even though he is a dictator and a maniacall despot? Nice to know people will support those more then the United States of America.

Really, I like to not think about the the fat jobless hobos at all. The world would run a lot more smoothly if people didn't concern themselves with others so much.

But the arguement I'm trying to make here is that private charities and churches do a much better job of helping poor people (dishing out cash) than leftist governments do. In addition, I'm not forced to pay for something that I don't necessarily believe in. I have nothing against helping poor people out, I just think that it's not the job of the government. I enjoy the option of keeping my money if I so desire.

I agree...while I do donate to charity and feel good about it...I am totally against FORCED charity. I like to help people out but I like even more to be in control of my own funds. You know what I'm saying?

I agree...while I do donate to charity and feel good about it...I am totally against FORCED charity. I like to help people out but I like even more to be in control of my own funds. You know what I'm saying?
Same here.

When Russia aligns itself ever more closely to the EU, I will begin to trust it. Until then, not likely.

Agreed...Even if Russia doesnt cooperate fully with America...I'd feel alot safer if it was under more control by civilized Europe.

So they did the right thing even though he is a dictator and a maniacall despot? Nice to know people will support those more then the United States of America.

Hes just an idiot...hes one of those leftists commies who still thinks America invaded Iraq for oil:p :D

Pleeasseee, that saying is sOoOoOo 2003.

Agreed...Even if Russia doesnt cooperate fully with America...I'd feel alot safer if it was under more control by civilized Europe.
Well it's not like Russia is uncivilised, but it could be doing a lot better.

Well it's not like Russia is uncivilised, but it could be doing a lot better.

Eh...Russia is not exactly matching in my definition of civilized...its got its problems...big problems. Altough, thats expected after a huge empire collapses...so I'm still giving them time to "modernize". In any event I, like you, would sleep alot safer if they moved away from the east and closer to the west. Not too mention the goodies they pack in their land that could be traded with our countries.

Eh...Russia is not exactly matching in my definition of civilized...its got its problems...big problems. Altough, thats expected after a huge empire collapses...so I'm still giving them time to "modernize". In any event I, like you, would sleep alot safer if they moved away from the east and closer to the west. Not too mention the goodies they pack in their land that could be traded with our countries.
Yeah, though they aren't a bunch of savages. :p Hmm well hopefully they won't take too long to wake up and follow the sign that says "Head West".

You should be shot repeatedly. Its because of people like you that the world is in such a shambles. Its full of selfish greedy capitalists who won't lift a finger to help their fellow man. You make me sick.

I would lift a finger, and I often do, it's merely that I don't want the government lifting my fingers for me. As for "selfish greedy capitalists", this is just human nature. Because people can't be changed, and because I dislike government intervention, I am indeed a "selfish greedy capitalist" along with most modern people.

I would lift a finger, and I often do, it's merely that I don't want the government lifting my fingers for me. As for "selfish greedy capitalists", this is just human nature. Because people can't be changed, and because I dislike government intervention, I am indeed a "selfish greedy capitalist" along with most modern people.
This "selfish greedy capitalist" line is getting old and boring, don't you think? We don't call them Communist pigs anymore. Or at least most of us don't. Plus it's a tacky stereotype.

I agree...while I do donate to charity and feel good about it...I am totally against FORCED charity. I like to help people out but I like even more to be in control of my own funds. You know what I'm saying?

Same here.

I like you two.

This "selfish greedy capitalist" line is getting old and boring, don't you think? We don't call them Communist pigs anymore. Or at least most of us don't. Plus it's a tacky stereotype.

Living in Texas, I still know plenty of old geezers who are convinced that Russia (actually still the Soviet Union, just in disguise) is preparing for war at any minute, and that it's God's will to blow all communists back to Moscow. I also know people who still genuinely believe that the South is going to rise agian. And tons of literal creationists.

I'll stop now.

I don't trust Putin. As for the Russian people, I don't know, I haven't met any of them. If I do, I'll decide on a case by case basis, as with everybody I meet.

I agree...while I do donate to charity and feel good about it...I am totally against FORCED charity. I like to help people out but I like even more to be in control of my own funds. You know what I'm saying?

To this I say two things: amen and welcome to capitalism, may I take your order?

Living in Texas, I still know plenty of old geezers who are convinced that Russia (actually still the Soviet Union, just in disguise) is preparing for war at any minute, and that it's God's will to blow all communists back to Moscow. I also know people who still genuinely believe that the South is going to rise agian. And tons of literal creationists.

I'll stop now.
Yeah, but umm these are generally exceptions. The thing is being capitalist in no way means you will be some greedy, selfish, uncaring bastard. Being human already entails all of that. :)

I like you two.

You will find that me and Europa agree on alot of things on this forum...what people do with our money being one of them. But hey! Somebody has got to hold it down for the Right side. Its not a pretty job, defending the forums from all those rampant lefties but somebody has got to do it.

To this I say two things: amen and welcome to capitalism, may I take your order?

Yeah...Capitalism works and its human-like.

Communism fails and its test-rat like.

You will find that me and Europa agree on alot of things on this forum...what people do with our money being one of them. But hey! Somebody has got to hold it down for the Right side. Its not a pretty job, defending the forums from all those rampant lefties but somebody has got to do it.
We get to breathe fire and have scaly wings. All they get are crappy swords to try and slay us with. A losing fight. :)

Yeah, though they aren't a bunch of savages. :p Hmm well hopefully they won't take too long to wake up and follow the sign that says "Head West".

Russians may not be savages...but those blonde North-Western Russia women can 'savage' me any day. ;)

We get to breathe fire and have scaly wings. All they get are crappy swords to try and slay us with. A losing fight. :)

Correction...limp swords. haha.

You know...I have always liked dragons...it would be cool to like genetically engineer one. :p

Russians may not be savages...but those blonde North-Western Russia women can 'savage' me any day. ;)
O rly?

Well, what you said but for the guys. :p

Correction...limp swords. haha.

You know...I have always liked dragons...it would be cool to like genetically engineer one. :p
Or uncover one from the depths of the Earth :eek: It too would be capitalist.

No, I do not trust the Russian government. Vladimir Putin, quite frankly, frightens me exceedingly. Furthermore, the Russian people's democratic rights are slowly but surely being eroded away by the government. It is a well-known fact that Russia possesses nuclear weapons, and that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence regarding the world state of affairs. However, you cannot necessarily say that the government of the United States of America has been any more straightforward, reliable, or honest than the Russian one. It would not an outrageous presumption to compare George W. Bush to Vladimir Putin. The Patriot Act versus arresting at will. Hmmm, Bush barely compares favourably.

Or uncover one from the depths of the Earth :eek: It too would be capitalist.

Lol...yeah we can have it do Ronald Regeans bidding...who we of course resurected. We can sic it on Chavez, Castro and that dipshit in control of Iran.

You will find that me and Europa agree on alot of things on this forum...what people do with our money being one of them. But hey! Somebody has got to hold it down for the Right side. Its not a pretty job, defending the forums from all those rampant lefties but somebody has got to do it.

I'm definatly more a leftie then a rightie (although I really don't like the whole classification thing), and I agree your money is your own and forced chairty is not charity at all. It always factinates me how everyone has a different idea about that the central left v. right conflict is.

I'm definatly more a leftie then a rightie (although I really don't like the whole classification thing), and I agree your money is your own and forced chairty is not charity at all. It always factinates me how everyone has a different idea about that the central left v. right conflict is.

Well then you are fiscally conservative yet socially liberal?

Like a libertarian.

Atleast thats how I see it.

Anyway I tend to look at things in relation to American politics...the Right= your in control of your money...the left = forced charity and social programs.

Yeah, but umm these are generally exceptions. The thing is being capitalist in no way means you will be some greedy, selfish, uncaring bastard. Being human already entails all of that. :)
Yay!

Yeah...Capitalism works and its human-like.

Communism fails and its test-rat like.
Nice.

O rly?
Ya rly.

Or uncover one [dragon] from the depths of the Earth It too would be capitalist.
Considering all dragons do is hoard treasure and eat little people, I think that capitalism suits them well.:)

I trust Russia more and more each day.:)

Yay!


Nice.


Ya rly.


Considering all dragons do is hoard treasure and eat little people, I think that capitalism suits them well.:)

Haha...that last part is funny.

Haha...that last part is funny.
It's the basis of my reasoning. :p Felines are also capitalist by virtue of their nature.

Well then you are fiscally conservative yet socially liberal?

Like a libertarian.
It would seem so. I am one. :p

Well then you are fiscally conservative yet socially liberal?

Like a libertarian.

Atleast thats how I see it.

Anyway I tend to look at things in relation to American politics...the Right= your in control of your money...the left = forced charity and social programs.

I can't stand the Republicans in America. They're against forced charity, but at the same time they take much more of my money and put it into a to-massive military budget, use that military for agressive expansion (I'm sure we'll disagree on this point), give the government much too broad powers, defend corperate power, and invade my personally life and choices.

To me, the right in my country means government control, taking my money for things I'm against, leaving the poor to rot, trying to force their world view on me, and making no attempt to reitfy the inequality of oppertunity in this country. The left is just as bad with curruption, corperate power, but at least they leave me be a bit more on morality and give the money they take from me to (although mostly ineffectual) programs to attempt to help those who need it.

Ya rly.
Looks better if you do it with a "!" and a pic. :p

Although democrates also do bullshit things like try to make me regester a machete ::shakes fist::

I can't stand the Republicans in America. They're against forced charity, but at the same time they take much more of my money and put it into a to-massive military budget, use that military for agressive expansion (I'm sure we'll disagree on this point), give the government much too broad powers, defend corperate power, and invade my personally life and choices.

To me, the right in my country means government control, taking my money for things I'm against, leaving the poor to rot, trying to force their world view on me, and making no attempt to reitfy the inequality of oppertunity in this country. The left is just as bad with curruption, corperate power, but at least they leave me be a bit more on morality and give the money they take from me to (although mostly ineffectual) programs to attempt to help those who need it.

Well...atleast you have valid points....But like you said...we will disagree here.

I dont trust Russia, they are still bunch of Commis if you ask me. Then we find out Russia helped Saddam kill Americans? Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave the terrorists the planes they used on 9/11.


Wow... I'm speechless. Not only are they as far from Communism as you can get (maybe not as far as the US but pretty far.), but the country that gave Saddam all of his weapons was the USA. The US backed Iraq in it's war against Iran, in doing so it provided Iraq with plenty of chemical, biological, and conventional weapons. I think it's safe to say that Russia didn't help the terrorists on 9/11. (and by the way, the terrorists hijacked planes they didn't need someone to [I]give[I] them planes.) If anything the US government aided the attacks on 9/11. Think about it: With the Cold War over, the US needed a new enemy, mainly one without international boarders. The US government flew members of Bin Laden's family out of the country the day of the attacks (before it was announced that Al Queda was involved.). The US military is STILL unable to capture Bin Laden after such a long time, where as the Russian government (with a much poorer intelligence system) was able to capture and... deal with, all who responsible for the attack on the school in southern Russia. I've seen plenty of speculation on what happened about 9/11, but Russia? Comon` next time think of a more viable scapegoat. (Like Bush, he's pretty convieniant to blame anything on.)

It would seem so. I am one. :p

Your a libertarian? hmm...They arnt that big in America...its usually left or right. Are libertarians big in Europe?

Your a libertarian? hmm...They arnt that big in America...its usually left or right. Are libertarians big in Europe?
Ever so slightly more, yes. I am more of a libertarian-liberal than anything. Economically right wing, socially liberal.

Looks better if you do it with a "!" and a pic. :p
No wai! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Birdo90210/nowai.jpg

Ever so slightly more, yes. I am more of a libertarian-liberal than anything. Economically right wing, socially liberal.

Yes...so European liberal = American libertarian. American liberal= European left?

American liberal = economically left and socially left

...and American conservative = Socially and economically right.

Yes...so European liberal = American libertarian. American liberal= European left?

American liberal = economically left and socially left

...and American conservative = Socially and economically right.
More or less correct. :)

like it or not, Russia is a nation in a better postition thatn the US to check Iran and North Korea. The US has to keep its police state status and use the slow arguous process of the democratic route. Russia has no such obligations and can wipe out Iran's military assets(conventional or not) at the drop of a hat, the same with North Korea.:mp5:

Well...atleast you have valid points....But like you said...we will disagree here.

You're one of those people who I'll agree with alot on basic principles, what's right and wrong, metaphicial things like that, but disagree with on facts and application, I think.

I think we hold similar core valuse, but will still end up on opposite sides of most issues, strongly opposed.

No wai! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Birdo90210/nowai.jpg
I had the perfect ZOMG for you, but alas it is lost. :(

You're one of those people who I'll agree with alot on basic principles, what's right and wrong, metaphicial things like that, but disagree with on facts and application, I think.

I think we hold similar core valuse, but will still end up on opposite sides of most issues, strongly opposed.
And you will still both love me for some inexplicable reason. :)

Look, I love the Irish people. Never in history has there been a more politically active people who treasure their freedom more.

However, I hate communists. There is a reason that every government that has ever attempted to create a utopian commune has always ended up a corrupt dictatorship. That reason is: communism doesn't work. To say that people can be motivated every day by the idea of helping each-other and closing the economic gap; it is ludicrous. Humans are naturally competitive, and will look for any way to gain an edge on their peers, and in capitalist countries, that edge is usually fiscal.

There is no greater incentive than money, and to try and take that away is to disrupt Darwin's natural selection. Maybe I am one of those fat, monocle-wearing, "corrupt capitalists" you spoke of, but I like it that way, and enjoy having a net worth higher than the fat jobless hobo living on the corner of my street.

-An avid advocate of social darwinism


Yet ANOTHER "Communism doesn't work! Because of Human nature and blah blah...." defense. (for the record I tend to have a realistic approach to a Communistic style of government. Socialism can work, unfortunatly it is people like yourself who prevent it from doing so. And believe me, not ALL humanity is like you. TRUE Communism cannot be accomplished, because of the few members of society that would exploit the absense of governemnt. However, Socialism can work in the right circumstances, and with the right amount of military power. The reason the Soviet Union fell was not a fault in Socialism itself, but the world-wide resistance to it. The international community was resisting Socialism from day one. It's a wonder Socialism went as far as it did, with "containment", "police actions", trade embargos, and revolts (funded by the west) the opposition to Socialism has been enourmous. Why? Not because of "human nature" but because of the few that twisted the international view of Socialism. You then go to speak of "Social Darwinism", which is one of the most disgusting ideas I have ever heard of. I'm sure you enjoy having a greater net worth than "that fat jobless hobo" down the street. This isn't human nature, this just means you're a bad person. One more thing, there IS a greater incentive than money, that incentive is someone holding a gun to your head because you don't want to help your fellow man. Socialism can work, we just need to deal with the few that try to use the excuse of "human nature" to exploit other people's weaknesses. One last thing, you ARE that monocle-wearing, corrupt capitalist.

Communism deprives no man of the ability to appropriate the fruits of his labour. The only thing it deprives him of is the ability to enslave others by means of such appropriations. - Karl Marx

One last thing, you ARE that monocle-wearing, corrupt capitalist.
And you know this, how...?

Yet ANOTHER "Communism doesn't work! Because of Human nature and blah blah...." defense. (for the record I tend to have a realistic approach to a Communistic style of government. Socialism can work, unfortunatly it is people like yourself who prevent it from doing so. And believe me, not ALL humanity is like you. TRUE Communism cannot be accomplished, because of the few members of society that would exploit the absense of governemnt. However, Socialism can work in the right circumstances, and with the right amount of military power. The reason the Soviet Union fell was not a fault in Socialism itself, but the world-wide resistance to it. The international community was resisting Socialism from day one. It's a wonder Socialism went as far as it did, with "containment", "police actions", trade embargos, and revolts (funded by the west) the opposition to Socialism has been enourmous. Why? Not because of "human nature" but because of the few that twisted the international view of Socialism. You then go to speak of "Social Darwinism", which is one of the most disgusting ideas I have ever heard of. I'm sure you enjoy having a greater net worth than "that fat jobless hobo" down the street. This isn't human nature, this just means you're a bad person. One more thing, there IS a greater incentive than money, that incentive is someone holding a gun to your head because you don't want to help your fellow man. Socialism can work, we just need to deal with the few that try to use the excuse of "human nature" to exploit other people's weaknesses. One last thing, you ARE that monocle-wearing, corrupt capitalist.

Communism deprives no man of the ability to appropriate the fruits of his labour. The only thing it deprives him of is the ability to enslave others by means of such appropriations. - Karl Marx

The Soviets failed because of outside pressure and lack of industrial recources, yes, but it is not enought to survive. You must be worthy of survival. And the Soviet model deserved to fail because it valued indevidual human life at nothing. Stalin had millions starved and killed and thrown in jail. That is the Soviet model deserved to fail. The reason these things happened was statism. If the call of "All Power to the Sovietes!" was true, and didn't accually mean "All Power to the Central Government!" if Kronstat and the Ukraine had been left alone by the cenral "soviet" military power, if the political power was given to the people and not the "vox populi" of the Bolshiviks, it might have been a different matter.


"Dictatorship of the proletariet" is still distatorship. And rarely does it represent the proletariet.

Also, monicles are badass. don't talk no shit about no monicles :p

And you will still both love me for some inexplicable reason. :)

Must be your natural badassness ;)

Must be your natural badassness ;)
That, and the monocle. And the fire breathing powers. :)

That, and the monocle. And the fire breathing powers. :)

Dude, a dragon with a monicle :)

Must be your natural badassness ;)

Must be. :p

Dude, a dragon with a monicle :)
Exactly! Who could hate that? Fear it, yes. Worship it, absolutely. But hate it? :eek:

I laugh at those on here that say they trust Russia more than the US. There are so many different reasons why Russia is a bunch of a lying corrupt group. I don't even know where to start. All I would say is I wouldn't trust the Russian government at all. They rank on my list down with the Iranian and Chinese governments. I also do not consider Russia a democracy.

...there IS a greater incentive than money, that incentive is someone holding a gun to your head because you don't want to help your fellow man. Socialism can work, we just need to deal with the few that try to use the excuse of "human nature" to exploit other people's weaknesses. One last thing, you ARE that monocle-wearing, corrupt capitalist.

Don't worry, the fact that you endorse forced charity scares me just as much as my endorsement of economic and political freedom scares you.

Felines are also capitalist by virtue of their nature.
That's where the term "Wall-Street fat-cat" came from. Here's one with a monocle, too: http://www.scotsindependent.org/2002/020607/fatcat.gif

By the way, I also call myself a libertarian. I guess that makes three of us. I've noticed that more and more old-fashined conservatives (Reaganists) are popping up around America. Soon enough, we'll be back in control of the Republican Party, because the bible-toting nut-jobs running it now don't seem to care too much about the deficit. Or we can form a Libertarian Party that actually has a substantial amount of members. We'll run on the platform of not doing anything! :p

That's where the term "Wall-Street fat-cat" came from. Here's one with a monocle, too: http://www.scotsindependent.org/2002/020607/fatcat.gif
Further proof of my theory! :eek:

By the way, I also call myself a libertarian. I guess that makes three of us. I've noticed that more and more old-fashined conservatives (Reaganists) are popping up around America. Soon enough, we'll be back in control of the Republican Party, because the bible-toting nut-jobs running it now don't seem to care too much about the deficit. Or we can form a Libertarian Party that actually has a substantial amount of members. We'll run on the platform of not doing anything! :p
Silence is golden :) So is inaction at certain times. Hopefully substantial Libertarian parties will show up both in the EU and the USA eventually.

That's where the term "Wall-Street fat-cat" came from. Here's one with a monocle, too: http://www.scotsindependent.org/2002/020607/fatcat.gif

By the way, I also call myself a libertarian. I guess that makes three of us. I've noticed that more and more old-fashined conservatives (Reaganists) are popping up around America. Soon enough, we'll be back in control of the Republican Party, because the bible-toting nut-jobs running it now don't seem to care too much about the deficit. Or we can form a Libertarian Party that actually has a substantial amount of members. We'll run on the platform of not doing anything! :p

Yay for Reaganist! I dont really know what kind of conservative I would be classified as. But I am not a libertarian...I am economically AND socially conservative. I like Bush but I like the Reagan administration more. I dont know if I could be called a neo conservative because I'm not Christian...but I dont know if I can be called a old fashioned conservative (reaganist) because I like Bush.

Wont someone please classify me!

However, I too am in favor of some more Reagan years for America.

Wont someone please classify me!

Compassionate Conservative?

Compassionate Conservative?

Is that a joke...lol?

Is that a joke...lol?
Don't worry; it was. :rolleyes:

I don't trust Russia at all. Their economy is tanking to new extremes, their goverment is so corrupt that it was never funny, they have way to many nukes for me to be comfortable with, and Putin is communist. What is there to like about Russia? They are obvioulsy not at all friendly with U.S.A, everyone knows they are selling all their extra weopons to anyone who can pay (does every third-world army have a Ak-47?!), and I don't want to know who is willing to pay for their nukes. I think Putin is tryng to manuever Russia back to the bad old days, (i.e. USSR). I think a regime change is a order :sniper: . Or maybe ninjas...:mp5: Hmmm....

Originally Posted by The Atlantian islands
I agree...while I do donate to charity and feel good about it...I am totally against FORCED charity. I like to help people out but I like even more to be in control of my own funds. You know what I'm saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Maxima
Same here.I like you two.
Great there's three of you could one of you answer my post then?
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10644086&postcount=96

bump

Great there's three of you could one of you answer my post then?
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10644086&postcount=96

I was originally going to reply, but than that Irish communist guy distracted me, sorry. So anyway, I think it's pretty interesting that you want to divert taxes to the poor in order to keep them from revolting and creating a government that diverts more money to the poor. Maybe that's why the Republican party hasn't stopped welfare yet. But I still disagree with you when you say that the poor would revolt if they didn't get government benefits. I think that in this day and age, they are so uninformed that they wouldn't care either way (or at least in America.) I also think that charities and churches do a much better job of distributing aid to the needy, and having volunteered with both government and private organizations, I can say from experience that private charities are much more direct, efficient, and effective than cumbersome government programs. And, the only people who pay for and fund them are people who want to.

However, I too am in favor of some more Reagan years for America.

I did like the ideology of the government backing off, but that's about where my love for Reagan stops. The Iran-Contra scandle and his treatment of Nicaragua was disgusting. And, like all US presidents, his administration protected corperate power and expanded the military.



I was originally going to reply, but than that Irish communist guy distracted me, sorry. So anyway, I think it's pretty interesting that you want to divert taxes to the poor in order to keep them from revolting and creating a government that diverts more money to the poor. Maybe that's why the Republican party hasn't stopped welfare yet. But I still disagree with you when you say that the poor would revolt if they didn't get government benefits. I think that in this day and age, they are so uninformed that they wouldn't care either way (or at least in America.) I also think that charities and churches do a much better job of distributing aid to the needy, and having volunteered with both government and private organizations, I can say from experience that private charities are much more direct, efficient, and effective than cumbersome government programs. And, the only people who pay for and fund them are people who want to.

But churches and charities cannot improve the schools. I think the governmet can and should be doing alot more to help the poor. And not just doleing out money, which is obviously not effective. This idea that we can help the poor by throwing some money at them is destructive and false. What we should be doing is fixing and improving inner-city and middle-of-nowhere schools so the kids can get an education, and make job training avalible so that people can get the tools to go out and earn a living standing on their own two feet. It'd be cheeper in the long run, too, then just doleing out welfare.

Taxes in this country could be much much lower, the government could back off more out of the indevidual citizen's private life, and we could still have greater oppertunity for equality, less suffering in this country. That's my take anyway.

Something I've never understood is why capitalists comlain so loud against welfare for the poor, which takes a pretty small amount out of your paycheck, yet never say boo about things that take much more, things like corperate welfare, pork barrel politics, $6 million to name a street after yourself, a massivly inflated military budget, and (since we were talking about Reagan) an insepid project to shoot missles with lazers from space. Why is that?

*snip*
I am of similar opinion to you. I am essentially a minarchist libertarian, and I believe the state should provide where the private sector cannot (ie education, health, law and order...whilst still allowing competition in these areas). The more efficiently it does so, the less it will have to tax. So I agree with what you said.

I did like the ideology of the government backing off, but that's about where my love for Reagan stops. The Iran-Contra scandle and his treatment of Nicaragua was disgusting. And, like all US presidents, his administration protected corperate power and expanded the military.





But churches and charities cannot improve the schools. I think the governmet can and should be doing alot more to help the poor. And not just doleing out money, which is obviously not effective. This idea that we can help the poor by throwing some money at them is destructive and false. What we should be doing is fixing and improving inner-city and middle-of-nowhere schools so the kids can get an education, and make job training avalible so that people can get the tools to go out and earn a living standing on their own two feet. It'd be cheeper in the long run, too, then just doleing out welfare.

Taxes in this country could be much much lower, the government could back off more out of the indevidual citizen's private life, and we could still have greater oppertunity for equality, less suffering in this country. That's my take anyway.

Something I've never understood is why capitalists comlain so loud against welfare for the poor, which takes a pretty small amount out of your paycheck, yet never say boo about things that take much more, things like corperate welfare, pork barrel politics, $6 million to name a street after yourself, a massivly inflated military budget, and (since we were talking about Reagan) an insepid project to shoot missles with lazers from space. Why is that?

LOL. As dumb as that project sounds in hind sight, the way I look at it is like this. Who cares if it could never have worked!? The Soviets bought it and were shitting themselves about it. Not too mention the technologies that we obtained through the space funding that was diverted to this cause.

Anyway I dont mind spending taxes on something I view important....I view Military as VERY important...so theres where we part. As for the whol bad welfare, good improving schools....I am with you 100%...my only problem with it is...that in America...I think its a black culture problem more so than anything. Until the Blacks revulate their culture and what its doing to themselves...nothing is going to change, no matter how bad we want it to.

I did like the ideology of the government backing off, but that's about where my love for Reagan stops. The Iran-Contra scandle and his treatment of Nicaragua was disgusting. And, like all US presidents, his administration protected corperate power and expanded the military.


But churches and charities cannot improve the schools. I think the governmet can and should be doing alot more to help the poor. And not just doleing out money, which is obviously not effective. This idea that we can help the poor by throwing some money at them is destructive and false. What we should be doing is fixing and improving inner-city and middle-of-nowhere schools so the kids can get an education, and make job training avalible so that people can get the tools to go out and earn a living standing on their own two feet. It'd be cheeper in the long run, too, then just doleing out welfare.

Taxes in this country could be much much lower, the government could back off more out of the indevidual citizen's private life, and we could still have greater oppertunity for equality, less suffering in this country. That's my take anyway.

Something I've never understood is why capitalists comlain so loud against welfare for the poor, which takes a pretty small amount out of your paycheck, yet never say boo about things that take much more, things like corperate welfare, pork barrel politics, $6 million to name a street after yourself, a massivly inflated military budget, and (since we were talking about Reagan) an insepid project to shoot missles with lazers from space. Why is that?
See, I don't mind military spending. Honestly, I think that the return to the people of the country is greater from the military than the return from many other programs. Besides, it gives the unemployed a job opportunity with a steady income while still benifiting the country in ways that welfare doesn't. I agree with you on this, Atlantian islands.

I agree with you, Katzistanza, when you cite education as the best investment in the poor. Heck, if we could educate Africa, it might rise out of the oblivion that it is in currently. However, I believe that people are better educated when their schools are privatized. Read on:


I believe the state should provide where the private sector cannot (ie education, health, law and order...whilst still allowing competition in these areas)
I think that two of the three services that you mentioned are indeed candidates for privatization.

Health can be privatized, as competition would drive the price of healthcare down, and only the incredibly ill would need to worry about whether they can afford healthcare. (Besides, better health care is another incentive to work hard and invest money)

Education is a great candidate for privatization. Public schools already manage without sapping tax dollars from other government departments; if the taxes people paid to go to public school were instead in their pockets, and if the parents had any sense (or heart) at all, then the kids could be sent to cheap private schools (whose competition would drive the prices down), and because the kids are actually paying money to go to school, they will not slack off and fail like most American students are. Conclusion: Privatized schools would lead to higher IQs in the poor, while saving tax dollars and reducing the size of the government.

P.S. What's wrong with corporate power?;)

I view Military as VERY important...so theres where we part.

Don't get me wrong, of couse a strong military is vital. I just think military spending could be streamlined greatly. Take the Cold War. Numerous scientits, military leaders, and political scientists testified that after a certain amount of nukes, say hypothetically 1000, it really didn't matter. There was very little tactical difference between 1000 and 100000000000 nukes. And a strong, informed president or primer would have said "we're only building 1000, if they build 100,000, to bad, we'll be in the exact same tactical position, and all those extra nukes are nothing but a drain on their recources. Suckers!" But both sides had to keep raising not just the technology level, but the sheer number of bombs. They implemented this money sink so as not to look week, to posture for the other side, and to show off their strength to their own people (such as Russian parrading their nukes down the street in "We love the State day!")

After the Cold War, military spending just kept going up and up, even after we'd won. It is political suicide to suggest a cut, or even a slow in the rate of climb of military spending, as it is to oppose increased military spending.

Many times, once your out of the army, of if you are wounded in combat, the military does little for you once you leave the hospital. This is disgusting the way vets are treated. My friend's fiance has perminant phycological and physical injury from his time in the Gulf War (he has the Golf War Syndrome), and the Marine Corps has pretty much cut him lose. Ever wonder why so many of those homeless people are vets? In many cities there are entire homeless veteren communities. Unless you make the military a career, alot of the recruiter's promises are just smoke on the water. More money should be spent on correcting this, and less on building new nukes, bio-weapons, and chemical weapons.

So, I am of the view that the current military gets more money then it needs to be strong, as also that it is involved in many things other then defence of America that I object to (School of the Americas, training Salvadorian death squads, getting involved in regional civil wars). The military should be limited to defending the US attacks or from proven imminent threats, and possible enforcement of humanitarian relief (a la Somolia).