NationStates Jolt Archive

Jacques Chirac has stormed out of an EU summit because a French business man started to address the conference in English. He refused to accept that English was "the working language of that particular session and the accepted business language of Europe today," as the business leader replied when asked.

I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting a national language and having a bit of pride about your country. However, when dealing with multinational organisations it is obvious that for the sake of simplicity one language is needed. Today, the easiest language is English; tomorrow it may well be Mandarin. Whatever it is, I think it is wrong of Chirac to storm off like this; he speaks perfectly good English, and only did it to look good in his home papers (his approval rating in France is less than 40% so he needs all the help he can get).

Perhaps it is easy for me to say this because I am English, and it may even be slightly hypocritical because I do not speak any other languages. However, French was traditionally the lingua franca and this was widely accepted; it is only since their language dropped out of this role over the last twenty years that the French have had a problem with the idea of a single international language.

Apart from dozens upon dozens of translators (cost to EU: 550 million euros BEFORE enlargement, 800 million budget afterwards), who really gains anything from a refusal to accept an international language? Or was it right for Chirac to storm off like this in defence of his national culture?

Chirac leaves summit link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4840160.stm
Translation costs link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3604069.stm

Et pourquoi ce thread est-il en Anglais?

typical bloody french politicians... empty chair crisis of '65... now this (far more minor, admittedly). it seems the french presidents honestly believe the world revolves around france.
french used to be the official language of courts and government around europe. now replaced by english as a world international language. get over it.

french used to be the official language of courts and government around europe. now replaced by english as a world international language. get over it.
Mandarin might take over from English within the next century though - will we feel the same way when it's our language on the decline?

Still living in the 19th century, is he?

(Anyone knows what became of the well-funded French state project to frenchify the web? Haven't heard about it for a couple of years now, but I'd be surprised if they 'd given up)

Mandarin might take over from English within the next century though - will we feel the same way when it's our language on the decline?
*shrugs* If that happens, I'll start learning mandarin. No big deal.

Pfff. If they'd quit bitching about how everyone tries speak French...

This has been brought to you by the Hack Stereotype Humor Committee, reminding you-"Nothing to see here..."


To make a real response, it does seem ridiculously grandstanding and uselessly obstructive. If everyone understands it, it doesn't matter if the language is Swahili, what language it was being said in wasn't the issue being discussed (well, until Chirac made it that.) But, I haven't really been involved, so there might be things relating to it that I don't know.

Mandarin might take over from English within the next century though - will we feel the same way when it's our language on the decline?
It's not an issue of not being able to speak French to the French-but if you're going to do international business then yeah, learn whatever language everyone else is speaking. It's not that big a deal.

Good for him.

I notice people are critising him for not speaking English even though he has perfectly good English.

How many of your leaders can converse in multiple languages that easily?

Or are we all just pissy because we're too lazy to bother learning another language fluently?

Was it English or Bussiness speak?
I am offended by Bussiness Language.

Was it English or Bussiness speak?
I am offended by Bussiness Language.
Especially when salesmen gather...yikes...

Good for him.

I notice people are critising him for not speaking English even though he has perfectly good English.

How many of your leaders can converse in multiple languages that easily?

Or are we all just pissy because we're too lazy to bother learning another language fluently?

Well some can't converse well in their own language *cough*Bush*cough*

However, the use of English in business is so widespread in Europe, I can see why Mr Seilliere spoke in English. The company I worked at last year in Germany demanded that every one of their employees should be able to speak at least conversational English, due to the fact they were involved in projects all over Europe.

Et pourquoi ce thread est-il en Anglais?

Anglicism warning!

Anglicism warning!
I know. What was I to use? Let them tax me for it.

Jacques Chirac has stormed out of an EU summit because a French business man started to address the conference in English. He refused to accept that English was "the working language of that particular session and the accepted business language of Europe today," as the business leader replied when asked.

I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting a national language and having a bit of pride about your country. However, when dealing with multinational organisations it is obvious that for the sake of simplicity one language is needed. Today, the easiest language is English; tomorrow it may well be Mandarin. Whatever it is, I think it is wrong of Chirac to storm off like this; he speaks perfectly good English, and only did it to look good in his home papers (his approval rating in France is less than 40% so he needs all the help he can get).

Perhaps it is easy for me to say this because I am English, and it may even be slightly hypocritical because I do not speak any other languages. However, French was traditionally the lingua franca and this was widely accepted; it is only since their language dropped out of this role over the last twenty years that the French have had a problem with the idea of a single international language.

Apart from dozens upon dozens of translators (cost to EU: 550 million euros BEFORE enlargement, 800 million budget afterwards), who really gains anything from a refusal to accept an international language? Or was it right for Chirac to storm off like this in defence of his national culture?

Chirac leaves summit link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4840160.stm
Translation costs link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3604069.stm


He wouldn´t really be French if he didn´t do things like this, would he?

Well some can't converse well in their own language *cough*Bush*cough*

However, the use of English in business is so widespread in Europe, I can see why Mr Seilliere spoke in English. The company I worked at last year in Germany demanded that every one of their employees should be able to speak at least conversational English, due to the fact they were involved in projects all over Europe.

Ability to speak multiple languages:
French check
Dutch check
Germans check
Swiss check
Italians check

British ???

Who cries out English has to be spoken?
The British.
Why?

*looks up*
Oh....

Mandarin might take over from English within the next century though - will we feel the same way when it's our language on the decline?
quite probably.
hypocritical, i know... *shrugs*

How many of your leaders can converse in multiple languages that easily?


Bushisms are 100 times funnier in Spanish. Yes, Bush actually does speak rather fluent Spanish. I don't think he knows French, though.

It's not like French is a very good language anyway.

quite probably.
hypocritical, i know... *shrugs*
If Mandarin does become le langue du jour though people will realise it's not as simple as just learning it. It is based on a different alphabet, completely different linguistic origins and different pronunciations. I am not saying that this means they should not learn it were it to become an international language; to the contrary. However, thinking that it is easy to simply pick up a language from a foreign language group is a bit naive. Learning it from a young age is another thing though.

Mandarin might take over from English within the next century though - will we feel the same way when it's our language on the decline?
Not likely. Mandarin uses characters that the majority of people in the world aren't familiar with. English was helped by the fact that most European languages use the same characters, and that non-Europeans had already been exposed to languages like French and Spanish. Printing presses already had most of the letters necessary to print up paperwork in English, and people learning English didn't have to learn how to draw new symbols.

Personally I think the way Mandarin is written will be a big obstacle to it becoming the international language of business.

Not likely. Mandarin uses characters that the majority of people in the world aren't familiar with. English was helped by the fact that most European languages use the same characters, and that non-Europeans had already been exposed to languages like French and Spanish. Printing presses already had most of the letters necessary to print up paperwork in English, and people learning English didn't have to learn how to draw new symbols.

Personally I think the way Mandarin is written will be a big obstacle to it becoming the international language of business.
But with one and a half billion Chinese at the moment, growing rapidly, and the fact that it is also rapidly becoming an economic powerhouse, what the European nations and nations of European decent find easy to adapt to might not be relevant.

But with one and a half billion Chinese at the moment, growing rapidly, and the fact that it is also rapidly becoming an economic powerhouse, what the European nations and nations of European decent find easy to adapt to might not be relevant.
What of the African, South American and Middle Eastern nations which also use European based languages? The total population of all these nations, of other European-descended nations and of the European nations themselves is well in excess of 1 billion.

What of the African, South American and Middle Eastern nations which also use European based languages? The total population of all these nations, of other European-descended nations and of the European nations themselves is well in excess of 1 billion.
True, but then with poverty and the world situation as it is these nations are hardly business powerhouses, so it's hard to see how they would have any more than a side impact on the business language. Add to that the fact that while English is often the official language in these countries, only a minority of the people actually speak it.

But with one and a half billion Chinese at the moment, growing rapidly, and the fact that it is also rapidly becoming an economic powerhouse, what the European nations and nations of European decent find easy to adapt to might not be relevant.
china: 1.3 billion

USA: 300 million
EU: 450 million
Canada: 35 million
total: 0.79 billion

a large discrepancy for sure. but coulpe in the fact that countries like india, also a growing economic powerhouse, has a population of 1.08 billion, the majoirty of the working professional/urban populace are already learning english, also coupled with the language's current world dominance, and i think it'll take some beating for mandarin to replace this language. especially given the considerations of a different alphabet (for one thing the hidden menu costs of converting to mandarin and its alphabet will be huge!)
also factor in that china aren't predicted to catch up with the GDP of the US for another 30 years or so.

i don't think it'll be impossible (perhaps probable in the next 200 to 300 years), but i definatley don't believe it to be a sure thing.

china: 1.3 billion

USA: 300 million
EU: 450 million
Canada: 35 million
total: 0.79 billion
Europe reaches around 700 million if you add in all European nations. Oh and you forgot Australia. As well as South American and African nations which speak European-based languages, even if they are poor.

i don't think it'll be impossible (perhaps probable in the next 200 to 300 years), but i definatley don't believe it to be a sure thing.
Nothing ever is. Agreed on this and the rest.

True, but then with poverty and the world situation as it is these nations are hardly business powerhouses, so it's hard to see how they would have any more than a side impact on the business language. Add to that the fact that while English is often the official language in these countries, only a minority of the people actually speak it.
They do speak Spanish, French, German, Portuguese or some other European language though, depending on the nation in question. Also, remember, Europe in its fullest capacity numbers to about 700 million citizens, and there is also substantial interest in South America (and potentially one day, Africa), enough to justify good communication with these nations. As Pure Metal noted, India (and I am sure Japan as well) both are accustomed to English already.

Europe reaches around 700 million if you add in all European nations. Oh and you forgot Australia. As well as South American and African nations which speak European-based languages, even if they are poor.
oops... yeah, australia... but i was just doing a quick comparison, though you're right: add in those countries (plus the extra population of the EU after the recent enlargement to 25 countries, most of whom teach english as a second language) and the discrepancy between the english speaking world and china becomes far less. there'll be a polarisation, perhaps two international business languages? who knows

oops... yeah, australia... but i was just doing a quick comparison, though you're right: add in those countries (plus the extra population of the EU after the recent enlargement to 25 countries, most of whom teach english as a second language) and the discrepancy between the english speaking world and china becomes far less. there'll be a polarisation, perhaps two international business languages? who knows
Europe's population explodes when you add Russia, the Ukraine and the other European nations who have yet to enter, to around 700 million on a conservative estimate. European-based languages, and especially English, will remain significant for the time being.

Ability to speak multiple languages:
French check
Dutch check
Germans check
Swiss check
Italians check

British ???

Who cries out English has to be spoken?
The British.
Why?

*looks up*
Oh....

That and a few other reasons...although I agree, our ability to speak the languages of our neighbours is pathetic.

Europe's population explodes when you add Russia, the Ukraine and the other European nations who have yet to enter, to around 700 million on a conservative estimate. European-based languages, and especially English, will remain significant for the time being.

But those are based on cyrillic alaphabets though...there is a slight difference, although its still more closely related than Latin based languages and Madarin.

Being Dutch, I hate the fact I have to speak Dutch.
I've compared English and Dutch alot of times and, even though I might not perfectly comprehend it. English is by far the more easier langauge to speak, and more important, To learn.

I wouldnt at all mind if the whole of europe just spoke English. I really dont understand what Chirac's whining about. I also speak french and find it the most difficult langauge that I know. We no longer live in a world where countries are truely unique. Culture is decaying (sadly enough) and the French langauge will not survive.

Being Dutch, I hate the fact I have to speak Dutch.
I've compared English and Dutch alot of times and, even though I might not perfectly comprehend it. English is by far the more easier langauge to speak, and more important, To learn.

What, are you kidding me?!

-ough..... for example.

But those are based on cyrillic alaphabets though...there is a slight difference, although its still more closely related than Latin based languages and Madarin.
No language is based on an alphabet. That would make no sense. Plus, all those languages have confortable transcriptions in the Latin alphabet (by which I mean: "not a contrieved version like Pinyin for Mandarin"). The Latin alphabet is used as a base (in your own terms) for languages as diverse as German, Albanian, and Vietnamese.

This said, I strongly disagree with any notion that "English should be the language of the EU", and I think that Chirac's gesture is taken out of context: while most of the French attitutes revolve around frustration at losing a cultural position (and I must assure that they are not yet as provincial as you'd think), I would welcome the same gesture from, say, the Latvian premier or the Portuguese president.

I would welcome the same gesture from, say, the Latvian premier or the Portuguese president.

Exactly. This has less to do with "teh Frenchies!" and more to do with non-Anglophiles standing up for themselves in a large multinational gathering.

I would expect nothing less from Spain, Poland, Finland etc etc.