NationStates Jolt Archive

First off, I am agnostic. My folks aren't particularly Christian-like, my dad is a lying alcoholic cop who cheats on my mom, and my mom is really vain, wrathful and loves conflict. They all curse like sailors and my dad has definitely killed people in his line of work (ret. military, current police). They've done a lot of bad things in their lives. In the bible, I read some things that confused me.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

Under a christian viewpoint, it seems like I'm doomed for hell (if it exists, which I doubt) whether I believe or not.

True? Untrue?

Why so many hell threads? Everyone got Satan on the brain?

If you are human then you are going to hell. Don't argue about it, it is as inevitable as taxes and corruption in politics.

No. You will not go to Hell. Mainly because it doesn't exist, and secondly... have you done anything severely wrong?

If so...

You aren't, because it doesn't exist anyway!

If not...

You aren't, because God or anyone else would have no reason to put you there if it DID exist!

So there's nothing to worry about. :D

And to those who think Hell exists:

Give me proof about it. I'm not trying to insult any beliefs here.

EDIT:

Also, if you aren't Christian, Hell doesn't apply to you in my understanding.

Yes you're going to hell.

But considering that Cicero, Caesar, Alexander the Great, Aristotle, Confucius, Plato, the Buddha, Muhammad, and Franklin Roosevelt are already there, you'll be in good company.

Yes you're going to hell.

But considering that Cicero, Caesar, Alexander the Great, Aristotle, Confucius, Plato, the Buddha, Muhammad, and Franklin Roosevelt are already there, you'll be in good company.

You really can't be serious about that. I hope that's just kidding.

Don't worry, man.
We all are already living in Hell.

If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for you sins, accept his gift of salvation, admit that you are a sinner and are totaly undeserving of his salvation and belive he conquered death when he rose from the dead you will not go to hell...



If you would like to become a follower of Christ than pray this prayer:
"Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

To clarify, the majority of Christians accept the idea that the sins of the previous generation no longer fall upon the current one. This idea, along with many other Old Testament ideas, was shot down by Jesus through his ministry at one point in which he notes that a man is blamable for his own sins. As such, this Leviticus verse, along with many others (such as the infamous you may not eat the meat of the animal that chews the cud, or has a cleft hoof) were destroyed later on timewise.
I hope this helps inform.
- Veritas

Either you're not going to Hell or you're already in it! ;)

Don't worry, man.
We all are already living in Hell.

Damn you, stealer or my thunder! Damn you to... oh, wait, you're already in Hell. Gah! *shakes fist*

If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for you sins, accept his gift of salvation, admit that you are a sinner and are totaly undeserving of his salvation and belive he conquered death when he rose from the dead you will not go to hell...



If you would like to become a follower of Christ than pray this prayer:
"Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

You bash that Bible brother!

You won't go to hell for your parent's mistakes. Eternal judgement is based on the individual.

nah

the covenant of the old testament covered all jews. all jews were expected to toe the mark in order for the whole group to get the blessings of god.

jesus brought a new covenant which covers the individual (and you dont have to be a jew anymore god will take anyone who signs up) as long as YOU do what needs to be done to get into heaven, youll get in (if god agrees, its not up to me). in the new covenant, the actions of your parents are irrelevant

good thing eh?

not that there IS a hell. but if you come to believe in the christian way of things youll have to actively do things to avoid your own damnation.

First off, I am agnostic. My folks aren't particularly Christian-like, my dad is a lying alcoholic cop who cheats on my mom, and my mom is really vain, wrathful and loves conflict. They all curse like sailors and my dad has definitely killed people in his line of work (ret. military, current police). They've done a lot of bad things in their lives. In the bible, I read some things that confused me.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

Under a christian viewpoint, it seems like I'm doomed for hell (if it exists, which I doubt) whether I believe or not.

True? Untrue?

I always took that verse to mean something along the lines of your parents can screw up so badly that the after effects can be felt for generations....although some might take it to mean that all are born with "original sin" that is passed down from all the way back to Adam and Eve.

I can't say if you will go to hell, I don't know. I can tell you what I believe about heaven and hell.

You really can't be serious about that. I hope that's just kidding.

Strange though it may sound, there are times when I, myself, do not know when I am attempting to be humorous and when I am being serious. This is one of those times.

Bad news: You're going to hell.

Good news: So are all the cool and interesting people.

Strange though it may sound, there are times when I, myself, do not know when I am attempting to be humorous and when I am being serious. This is one of those times.

...

OK, that's wierd...

...

OK, that's wierd...

Not nearly as wierd as the time I... oh. Nevermind. There are children present.

Not nearly as wierd as the time I... oh. Nevermind. There are children present.

Well, if you want you could TG me it whatever it was.

Why so many hell threads? Everyone got Satan on the brain?

The devil's making us do it.

If you're gonig to hell I'll meet you there and we'll form our own club, The Agnostic Hellriders.

yes, but not because of your parents, just because you made a sucky thread.

yes, but not because of your parents, just because you made a sucky thread.

Don't flame.

First off, I am agnostic. My folks aren't particularly Christian-like, my dad is a lying alcoholic cop who cheats on my mom, and my mom is really vain, wrathful and loves conflict. They all curse like sailors and my dad has definitely killed people in his line of work (ret. military, current police). They've done a lot of bad things in their lives. In the bible, I read some things that confused me.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

Under a christian viewpoint, it seems like I'm doomed for hell (if it exists, which I doubt) whether I believe or not.

True? Untrue?



God does not exist. You're not going to hell. I am glad that I solved that for you.

Nah, you're not going to hell because of your parent's actions.

Bad news: You're going to hell.

Good news: So are all the cool and interesting people.

...
ROFL!
FUCKING R-O-F-L!

If you have faith enough to believe in God, Heaven or Hell, then you should have faith that God will judge you fairly when the time comes.

Nah, you're not going to hell because of your parent's actions.

That's what it said...but no.

Bad news: You're going to hell.

Good news: So are all the cool and interesting people.
Thats about as true as you can get.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

True? Untrue?
Yes, you're going to hell. God's just like that. Supposedly Jesus came to clean away all sin, but he also said that the law would remain unchanged forever and ever. I wouldn't worry too much about a god that can't make up its mind.

Jesus got rid of animal sacrifice to for sin...that's the biggest thing.

Bad news: You're going to hell.

Good news: So are all the cool and interesting people.
"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company" - Mark Twain.

First off, I am agnostic. My folks aren't particularly Christian-like, my dad is a lying alcoholic cop who cheats on my mom, and my mom is really vain, wrathful and loves conflict. They all curse like sailors and my dad has definitely killed people in his line of work (ret. military, current police). They've done a lot of bad things in their lives. In the bible, I read some things that confused me.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

Under a christian viewpoint, it seems like I'm doomed for hell (if it exists, which I doubt) whether I believe or not.

True? Untrue?

Don't fear the reaper. Christianity is a self-contradicting religion (multiple times over in some cases, I understand) that few Christians themselves understand. Why do you think there are so many sects?
My beliefs are of Judeo-Christian nature, but only in the sense that I accept the existance of a monotheistic, omnipotent God and I believe in doing good things for others, along with many messages in the Bible. However, I hold no formal opinion of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, or any biblical figures as prophets or saviours. A lot of my current beliefs on everday living and life in general reflect a more Buddhist/Taoist way, where I focus a lot on philosophy and practical spirituality.
The reason I don't believe in Christianity, Judaism, or Islam is perhaps because I find them impractical and that a lot of things they preach just, to me, don't make sense (e.g. homophobia, anti-abortionism, male chauvinism, etc.). I have had brief forays into all three faiths and have not come to accept any of them as a way of life that's meant for me, especially the Christian belief of salvation. I don't believe in original sin to begin with, so that's probably a big reason why.
Jesus was a very wise, caring, and compassionate religious teacher. I wish that today's fundamentalists and average Christians generally reflected that a little more (no offense to Christianity and all Christians, just the ultra-evangelists. Bad experiences...). Peace be with you all.

True....but it should make sense after all. The bible is so complex it infact even tells us that we should question religion cause the original message is lost.

"Hell is other people" Jean-Paul Sartre

I wouldn't worry about it. We're all going to be surprised. And the people who get the most unpleasant surprise of all will be the ones who tried to frighten us all with that "Hell" business.

If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for you sins, accept his gift of salvation, admit that you are a sinner and are totaly undeserving of his salvation and belive he conquered death when he rose from the dead you will not go to hell...



If you would like to become a follower of Christ than pray this prayer:
"Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

This is a good example of modern pop-cultutre Christianity. Early Christians did not believe, nor did they teach, that a confession or faith alone was an assurance of salvation. And neither did the Catholic church as it developed. This belief arose out of the Reformation and really only developed within the last century. Even the early reformers didn't teach a faith alone doctrine.

Some examples from early Christians demonstrate that a belief in an 'assurance' of salvation didn't exist, because it was believed that salvation could be lost. For example, Tertullian wrote, "For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? is not this gift taken away from many?" and Irenaeus wrote, "If we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom."

Some examples from the NT that clearly refute the idea that a profession of faith alone brings salvation, such as praying the prayer above, are as follows:

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven
1 Corinthians 15:1 - By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Just a couple off the top of my head that demonstrate that neither a confession of faith or even a belief alone save. For a more complete list, you could visit my website www.shema.bravehost.com

And for the record, I'm not a Christian and I don't adhere to any Christian concepts of salvation. I simply wanted to note that what Christians believe today regarding being saved is not what early Christians believed, or even what the Bible actually teaches.

Jesus got rid of animal sacrifice to for sin...that's the biggest thing.

If Jesus got rid of animal sacrifice, why did the Temple stand for decades after Jesus and sacrifices continue? And why do sacrifices still continue today among many Torah adherents, such as the Samaritans?

First off, I am agnostic. My folks aren't particularly Christian-like, my dad is a lying alcoholic cop who cheats on my mom, and my mom is really vain, wrathful and loves conflict. They all curse like sailors and my dad has definitely killed people in his line of work (ret. military, current police). They've done a lot of bad things in their lives. In the bible, I read some things that confused me.

Exodus 20:5
"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." and also Exodus 64:6-7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 say very similar things.

Under a christian viewpoint, it seems like I'm doomed for hell (if it exists, which I doubt) whether I believe or not.

True? Untrue?

Yes, your going to Hell. There you will meet me or another Satanist who will be your punisher for all eternally! Mahahahahahaha...

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

If Jesus got rid of animal sacrifice, why did the Temple stand for decades after Jesus and sacrifices continue? And why do sacrifices still continue today among many Torah adherents, such as the Samaritans?

They weren't Christians. I assume Asbena was referring to what he taught to his followers, not to the general situation. The Christians were insignificant until years after the destruction of the Temple, anyway.

Then again, the idea of de-emphasizing animal sacrifice probably wasn't Jesus's anyway, it probably was present among the Pharisees too (especially after the Temple's destruction, naturally.)