NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

Behold...


"We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq. The occupation must end."


The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.

Canada City']http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

Behold...



The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.
Iraq was fine under Saddam. He was about the best leader we can expect from that region. The Canadians are right. The trouble going on there now is a direct result of the invasion and removal of Saddam.

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.

Canada City']The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.
Not really - their argument is that the kidnapping of foreigners is a direct consequence of the removal of Saddam (who did an effective-if-evil job of keeping control of the country).

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.
Take it in context, sonny Jim, given that region, it's the best you could expect. You didn't have all the shit going on there when Saddam was in power.

Iraq was fine under Saddam. He was about the best leader we can expect from that region. The Canadians are right. The trouble going on there now is a direct result of the invasion and removal of Saddam.

Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.

"I still think I could have done a better job."

Not really - their argument is that the kidnapping of foreigners is a direct consequence of the removal of Saddam (who did an effective-if-evil job of keeping control of the country).
Sums him up pretty well.

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.
we get the point, Mr.Sarcasm

(you missed Hitler)

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.
Spot the odd-one-out. (Clue: in one of these, you're more likely to be killed due to your beliefs now than you were under the specified leader.)

Canada City']Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.

Wait till you see the de-dicking one for adultery/rape. You take it out and then they cut it off. :( Public to.

Iraq was fine under Saddam. He was about the best leader we can expect from that region. The Canadians are right. The trouble going on there now is a direct result of the invasion and removal of Saddam.
It is, but I don't think they're advocating Saddam, just the way he was removed and how the occupation has proceeded.

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
South Africa was fine under apartheid.
Uganda was fine under Idi Amin.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.
No comparison between Iraq and most of those other countries. Saddam killed and tortured some people, but how many more people are dying and being tortured now? The rule of law has broken down without Saddam and Iraq has become similar to Afghanistan after the Soviets. Guess who (other than the colaition) weilds power there? Religous militias, like the taliban.

Canada City']Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.
And it promoted stability.

No comparison between Iraq and most of those other countries. Saddam killed and tortured some people, but how many more people are dying and being tortured now? The rule of law has broken down without Saddam and Iraq has become similar to Afghanistan after the Soviets. Guess who (other than the colaition) weilds power there? Religous militias, like the taliban.

What about the government police now?

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.
Yugoslavia was fine under Milosevic.
Afghanistan was fine under the Taliban.They are a lot better now.. are they not? [/sarc.]

Hey.. since Bush armies gave "Freedom" To Afghanistan.. they enjoy Sex-equality and freedom-of-religion. :D :D :p :D

Canada City']Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.
Similar things are being done by Shiite militias that capture Sunnis. We haven't stopped the torture, just switched who's doing it and who's the victim.

Canada City']Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.

Do you want to see the videos I found by Coalition forces? Making Iraqis strip naked and then get beaten?

Yeah we have done a really good job haven't we.

In context Saddam was not as bad as he was made out, yes he was evil but we should not have invaded. There were economic and diplomatic routes still open.

Zimbabwee (u know what I mean) is worse than iraq ever was but we are not charging in there are we?

What about the government police now?
What, like the ones that captured 50 sunni security officers and made them disappear? Wait, that's not fair. Some of them have reappeared as corpses bearing signs of torture.

No comparison between Iraq and most of those other countries. Saddam killed and tortured some people, but how many more people are dying and being tortured now? The rule of law has broken down without Saddam and Iraq has become similar to Afghanistan after the Soviets. Guess who (other than the colaition) weilds power there? Religous militias, like the taliban.

The "rule of law" was kept with fear and terror. The coalition forces + Shiite-dominated government could also establish the "rule of law" by wiping out the Sunni population thus ending the Sunni-dominated insurgency, that doesn't make it okay or desirable.

The "rule of law" was kept with fear and terror. The coalition forces + Shiite-dominated government could also establish the "rule of law" by wiping out the Sunni population thus ending the Sunni-dominated insurgency, that doesn't make it okay or desirable.
You see, the rule of law existed none the less. The Sunnis wouldn't be as big an issue if we didn't parade in there and install an unfamilar and new government.

You see, the rule of law existed none the less. The Sunnis wouldn't be as big an issue if we didn't parade in there and install an unfamilar and new government.

That is true, but I think they are more inclined to like this government with time, since they have a say in it.

Canada City']http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.
Mindless cretins.

Canada was prepared to join in on the Iraq adventure, because most of the time the Liberal Party were towing the US line, but provincial politics was the reason we didn’t go. The Canadians were right there when the call came to push the Taliban out of Afghanistan and the awarded the Canadian snipers with a Congressional Honour. They scared the hell out of the Taliban because they could snipe at 2km and they never knew when they’d be hit.

When the time came to support the Americans in Iraq, Chretien had a provincial election coming up in Quebec and a lot of ridiculous anti-French stupidity in the US whipped up separatist sentiments in that Francophone Province. Chretien had to choose between brassing off the Americans by saying that Canada wouldn’t join them in Iraq to or brass off the Quebec electorate and help the separatists win the Provincial election. Separatists had been gaining a lot of ground in Quebec politics over the years and this would have been just the thing to put them into position to launch another Separation Referendum.

A lot of Canadians want to believe that we didn’t go to Iraq on moral grounds, but moral grounds never stopped Chretien’s Liberal Party from doing anything else before. The sad truth is that we did the right thing for all the wrong reasons. Maybe if the US ideologues hadn’t been so over the top juvenile about the Freedom Fries and worse anti-French rhetoric, and forgotten that there was a substantial French population living in the country to the North, then we’d be slogging it out in the poorly planned Iraq campaign with the other poor saps. Of course it would have resulted in the annihilation of the Liberals in the next Federal election and them being replaced by a Conservative Majority instead of a Minority Government loss over obscene corruption.

Saddam was a brutal dictator, but the US should bear the responsibility for backing him as an unstable puppet as long as they did, to have a presence in the region.

The Bruce

So are you saying that the invasion of Iraq isn't what caused these kidnappings?

Political Prisoners tend to learn to empathize with their captors. Its both a result of brainwashign and a natural survival instint. It take a while for the behavoir to wear off after the stimulus disappears.

Political Prisoners tend to learn to empathize with their captors. Its both a result of brainwashign and a natural survival instint. It take a while for the behavoir to wear off after the stimulus disappears.

Huh... >.>!?

Must crush communism!

The "rule of law" was kept with fear and terror. The coalition forces + Shiite-dominated government could also establish the "rule of law" by wiping out the Sunni population thus ending the Sunni-dominated insurgency, that doesn't make it okay or desirable.
But right now the rule of law is gone and there are few prospects for reestablishing it. At least before we weren't involved and Iraq's problems were of concern only to Iraq. Now Iraq's problems directly impact the USA and it's costing us an arm and a leg (sometimes literally) to prevent that country from falling into anarchy.

Mindless cretins.
Why?

They were against the coalition being there from the start, before they got kidnapped.

They stuck to their position, and now also recognise that the coalition has a huge, huge part of the responsibilty for the current mess in Iraq.

Canada City']http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

First, let's get a few facts straight. The group mentioned, who were captured in Iraq, belong to an organization based in the US that has offices in Canada. Some of their members are from countries like Canada and the UK, but most are American. They weren’t peace protestors either. What they were was a Christian NGO (Christian Peacemaker Teams) who were trying to bring harmony to some shattered settlements. They rendered aid to communities and refused to carry weapons or allow themselves to be escorted by armed troops. This made them easy marks for the kidnapping capital of the world. They have relied on the good will of residents to protect them in the past but the criminal element is just too much for anyone these days in Iraq.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/23/canadian_role060323.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4514966.stm

Take it in context, sonny Jim, given that region, it's the best you could expect. You didn't have all the shit going on there when Saddam was in power.

Sure-considering that anyone that didnt agree with him-or was supsected of not agreeing with him- or was accused of not agreeing with him- was grabbed and never seen again. Sometimes the person's family members dissapeared too. This is documented by thousands of torture/rape/murder videos as well as survivor's accounts.
So- the rest of the world didnt hear about it on such a wide scale as now,when there is some free press. That-and now its called "kidnapping" whereas before it was called "arrested". Arrested sounds legal, huh?.

I understand....but wow....shocking kinda.

Sure-considering that anyone that didnt agree with him-or was supsected of not agreeing with him- or was accused of not agreeing with him- was grabbed and never seen again. Sometimes the person's family members dissapeared too. This is documented by thousands of torture/rape/murder videos as well as survivor's accounts.
So- the rest of the world didnt hear about it on such a wide scale as now,when there is some free press. That-and now its called "kidnapping" whereas before it was called "arrested". Arrested sounds legal, huh?.
So what? The same kinds of things are happening now. It's just that you've got criminals, two kinds of islamists, and saddam supporters doing the same shit. Iraq's more dangerous and less stable than it was under Saddam. Removing Saddam has made the situation worse in Iraq, not better.

So what? The same kinds of things are happening now. It's just that you've got criminals, two kinds of islamists, and saddam supporters doing the same shit. Iraq's more dangerous and less stable than it was under Saddam. Removing Saddam has made the situation worse in Iraq, not better.


Not the same-and the bad stuff is on a drastically smaller scale.

I dont agree. The bad news is just available immediately now and of course makes its way around the world in seconds.
Its not ideal now, but it will improve. It may be as good as say-Camden,soon.
The average Iraqi is still beter off there now.
If the news showed you much of that, hardly anyone would watch.

Not the same-and the bad stuff is on a drastically smaller scale.

I dont agree. The bad news is just available immediately now and of course makes its way around the world in seconds.
Its not ideal now, but it will improve. It may be as good as say-Camden,soon.
The average Iraqi is still beter off there now.
If the news showed you much of that, hardly anyone would watch.
Well I hope it will improve soon. Right now it's a mess. The Iraqi government needs to get it's shit together in a hurry.

Well I hope it will improve soon. Right now it's a mess. The Iraqi government needs to get it's shit together in a hurry.

As do I. I was looking foward to Iraq being friendly with the US, become an active trading partner and become a good example for others in that region.

Canada City']http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

Behold...



The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.

..or the equal of Germans supporting the Allies.

Either comparison is OTT.

we get the point, Mr.Sarcasm

(you missed Hitler)
and Stalin!

but seriously, if we pulled out now millions would die because the only thing holding the government togethar is our troops. I don't like Bush either but I don't want millions of Iraqies to die because we want out. I say we should be out in two years or it's never going to end.

What is even more annoying is that the media is toeing the line of BS that they were "released" - not rescued. :headbang:

These cretins haven't said word one in thanks to the coalition forces that risked their lives for these pathetic peacnicks.

Frankly, I would have written them off and let them meet Allah's Sword.

Huh... >.>!?

It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

They weren’t peace protestors either. What they were was a Christian NGO (Christian Peacemaker Teams) who were trying to bring harmony to some shattered settlements.
CPT are peace protestors. They just try to be constructive at the same time.

These cretins haven't said word one in thanks to the coalition forces that risked their lives for these pathetic peacnicks.

Frankly, I would have written them off and let them meet Allah's Sword.
If this is true, I agree.

Canada City']Shall I link you to the torture videos I found by saddam's men? How would like to have yourself blindfolded then your fingers chopped off?

Yeah, Saddam was such a nice ruler.

And shall I show you the pictures of what the occupiers have done to Iraqis since they took over?

Yeah, America is such a nice oppressor.

As do I. I was looking foward to Iraq being friendly with the US, become an active trading partner and become a good example for others in that region.

Yeah, darn Iraqis having minds of their own, and not doing as America wants them to and being oil puppets... what ARE they thinking?

Yes, Iraq was fine under Saddam.No it wasn't. The war was still ill-conceived nevertheless.

South Africa was fine under apartheid.Of course it wasn't. But you do know that Reagan and Thatcher were very reluctanct in renouncing South Africa while Canada had been a prominent critic of it since the 60's?

Yeah, darn Iraqis having minds of their own, and not doing as America wants them to and being oil puppets... what ARE they thinking?
So almost every nation in Europe is some sort of American puppet? We are all active trading partners, friendly with the US and provide good examples to the world.

So almost every nation in Europe is some sort of American puppet? We are all active trading partners, friendly with the US and provide good examples to the world.

Playing nice with the US doesn't automatically mean they're good examples to the world. THAT is exactly the kind of faulty logic that lead to Bin Laden getting weapons and training, or putting Sadam in power.
And no, just because people trade with the US doesn't make them puppets, either. But taking over a country and trying to force it to be nice and trade with you isn't exactly making them a "willing" trade partner.

That is correct Gargantua City State. Now the next step would be for the GOP and particularly neoconservatives to understand that conducting trade at gun point does nothing but harm and forfeits the future.

That is correct Gargantua City State. Now the next step would be for the GOP and particularly neoconservatives to understand that conducting trade at gun point does nothing but harm and forfeits the future.

I get the feeling they're too focused on short term gains to think about the future very much. They want instant gratification, and that's why some of the Republicans are starting to turn against Bush... they're not getting their oil NOW. The war wasn't finished FAST. They're on the latest bandwagon.

Canada City']http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060323-005/page.asp

The Canadian peace protesters in Iraq, who were held hostage for months, got their own skins saved by the coalition forces. Nevermind the fact that it was their own stupidity in the first place that could've got them killed.

Behold...



The hell? This is equal to a Jew supporting Nazis.

I'm going to have to object to you insinuating that the actions of 4 peace protestors (of which I believe only 2 were Canadian) somehow condemns Canada.

For starters, it's quite obvious that the situation in Iraq today is a result of the American invasion. It's a no-brainer. Also, to equate it with Nazi Germany is a little rediculous as well.

However, a premature evacuation of troops isn't going to turn Iraq into a peaceful kumbaya singin' country either.

And I'm going to have to give a thumbs up to all of The Bruce's posts on this thread so far. Can't agree more.

I know I'm sick when I simply can't muster up the energy to squash Canada City like the bug he is...

*hacks up half a lung*

Oh, Gods... I hate being ill.

we get the point, Mr.Sarcasm

(you missed Hitler)
A lil extreme.

Canada City, quit whining about our country. You whine about Canada while the Liberals are in power, now you whine about Canada when the tories are in power. Instead of whats wrong with Canada, how about what's wrong with you? Is the tories not right-wing enough?

As I said before the people rescued WEREN’T peace protestors, they were members of a Christian NGO (Non Government Organization) that was providing humanitarian relief work to the Iraqi people. The fact is that the whole question of this thread: the Canadians not having any involvement in the rescue of their own citizens is moot. The Canadian government has been under pressure since yesterday to admit that the Joint Task Force (special forces) is in Iraq and involved in the rescue.

It’s also been confirmed that members of the JTF (Canadian SAS equivalent) and the RCMP were involved in the rescue, along with US, British (assume SAS), and Iraqi troops (assume they directed traffic).

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/24/iraqfolo-060324.html

The Bruce