NationStates Jolt Archive

I grew up in a pretty rough and tumble style...I fought from elementary school all the way into University. I rarely provoked physical conflicts, but neither did I stand down...so in a way, the number of fights I've been in is somewhat related to my attitude then. I may not have sought out violence, but I was only too happy to engage in it.

However, over the years I've embraced pacifism. Not the namby-pamby bullshit 'pacifism' that most non-pacifists attribute to the ideology, but rather the real, put yourself in danger, fight for what you believe in WITHOUT violence 'pacifism'. It's fairly simple on a big, political scale, but on a one-to-one individual scale, it can become problematic.

On St. Patrick's Day, I went out to a bar to celebrate the Irish half of me. Rowdy as this day is, I was pretty confident I could avoid trouble, because something about me no longer screams, 'I'm willing to throw down!'. However, as drunken people are wont to do, a simple look snowballed into a mortal insult, and I saw a complete stranger being threatened with a beating by three rather tipsy, large women. The girl being confronted was fairly young, small, and seemed very bookish and shy. I happened to be nearby, and decided to butt in.

Reasoning with drunks is pointless at the best of times, but I tried it. I made it very clear I wasn't looking for trouble, and wasn't about to provide them with entertainment in the form of receiving a beating, but that I also wasn't going to stand by and let someone else be pummeled. It was hard! It was hard not to punch first and reason later...all the times I've been in this situation before, I've reacted before the other person had the chance to initiate the process. I was itching to act. I was literally thrumming with the need to act, but I held myself in check. Not out of fear...even with the odds, I am confident that at least one of them was going to run off the second a punch was thrown, and the other would try to grab my hair, giving me time to get the first one down, likely discouraging the second. It all played out in my head, but I remained calm, and PRACTICED de-escalation on them. When they raised their voices, I lowered mine. When they hurled insults, I kept a straight face, and didn't respond. At all times, I kept myself between them, and the girl, which meant some fast footwork on my part because while one was talking, another one kept trying to edge around me (sometimes over me, I'm pretty short) to get at her. When they asked, 'do you wanna fight', I told them no, and why. When they told me to get out of the way, and that it wasn't my problem, I refused. One by one, they deflated, hurled a few more half-hearted insults, and returned to their table to drink and enjoy themselves.

Let me tell you...I have never felt as awesome as I did at that moment...not even when I'd won against scary odds in a fight. Granted, it could have turned out badly had they had weapons. It would suck to be stabbed in a bar. But I couldn't have stood by and watched this girl get beat up, hoping that bouncers would break up the fight in time to stop her from being seriously hurt.

Well, anyway...this reminded me why I stopped going out on St. Paddy's Day.

I'm proud of you. Quite the image of non-violence:)

So you convinced them to wander off and beat the crap out of someone where it wouldn't interfere with your evening? Very nice, very nice.

So you convinced them to wander off and beat the crap out of someone where it wouldn't interfere with your evening? Very nice, very nice.
Hehehe...no, they didn't wander off to beat on someone else, as far as I could see. They stayed at the same table for the rest of the night. Perhaps they beat someone up afterwards, but I doubt it. One of them ended up puking, and the other two were carrying her out once the lights came on.

If I were going to become a pacifist, I'd just carry a whole lot of nets around with me. Some of them would be tiny. Trapping someone in a net isn't really violent.

Oh, c'mon! What's St Paddy's day without a good drunken brawl?

Now, seriously, you did good, I wish I was so brave.

I'm proud of you. Quite the image of non-violence:)
Well, the thing is, had I just watched this chick get beat up, I could have been 'non-violent' too...but that's not necessarily what pacifism is about. It's not just about standing by and watching violence. Sometimes it means being a witness to it, especially when those perpetrating the violence don't want to be seen doing it...but it can also be about stopping violence if possible, even if that means you yourself are put in danger. Most people assume pacifism means running away. Well, it's more complicated than that.

[snip]
Well, anyway...this reminded me why I stopped going out on St. Paddy's Day.
saving a person from a beating reminded you why you stopped going out? damn, she was lucky you were there. Cheers and good for you! :)

Oh, c'mon! What's St Paddy's day without a good drunken brawl? This is true...and were it clear that all the participants were willing, I'd likely have stayed out of it.

saving a person from a beating reminded you why you stopped going out? damn, she was lucky you were there. Cheers and good for you! :)
No, not 'saving' that girl...but the whole revved up level of violence on St. Paddy's Day. It's like an excuse to 'act Irish', which in the minds of the majority of non-Irish participants means drinking and fighting:).

Verging on the inspirational there. Well done. :)

*is glad he is not Irish and must only participate in Oktoberfest, Polish polka and midsummar*

Kudos to being an angry passive fist. Its a compliment. Really. :)

Good job man

Well, the thing is, had I just watched this chick get beat up, I could have been 'non-violent' too...but that's not necessarily what pacifism is about. It's not just about standing by and watching violence. Sometimes it means being a witness to it, especially when those perpetrating the violence don't want to be seen doing it...but it can also be about stopping violence if possible, even if that means you yourself are put in danger. Most people assume pacifism means running away. Well, it's more complicated than that.
ah yes...you would be correct there. This is what I get for reading Othello, making lunch, and posting all at once.

*is glad he is not Irish and must only participate in Oktoberfest, Polish polka and midsummar*

Kudos to being an angry pacifist or something like that. Its a compliment. Really. :)
Hey, no one else lets a lack of Irish heritage interfere with their enjoyment of St. Paddy's Day (except for an English English teacher I had once, who wore a black armband on March 17th because she'd had a relative die in an IRA bomb attack).

Good job woman
Thanks:)

Hey, no one else lets a lack of Irish heritage interfere with their enjoyment of St. Paddy's Day.
Ah, yes, but I do. I can't prove or disprove I'm Irish, so I just wear green to not get pinched. Yes, people still do that after elementary. Anyhow, Cinco de Mayo is where its all at. ;)
*is not Mexican either, but enjoys the French bashing festivities*

Nice.

Though on the subject of St. Paddies. A few girls (who were going to pinch me) asked if I wore green. I flashed my boxers at them and they went 'Ooooh! Awww' in like 2 seconds. I had green on. :P

St. Patrick's Day; aside form being as bullshit of a holiday promoted by beer and liquor companies as Valentine's Day is promoted by flower, diamond and chocolate companies; is one of a few "Amateur Night" holidays. The others include New Year's Eve and Mardi Gras. An Amateur Night complicates the already dangerous mixture of assholes and alcohol by adding all those who don't normally drink heavily or at all (and save their inebriated escapades for Amateur Nights).

That opinion aside, well done Sinuhue. That just makes you sexier to me by an order of magnitude. Not that it even remotely matters!

For that matter, the Irish in my blood is from Clan MacMurchie, a sub-clan of the Buchanan, many of whom are Scots-Irish Ulstermen. I have to resist the urge to wear orange on March 17th. Thing is, I could care less about the politics or even the history -- whenever religious people wanna kill each other, I'm okay with it. I just sometimes enjoy being contrarian.

That may be true...but sexier just cause of a Gandi like stance?

That opinion aside, well done Sinuhue. That just makes you sexier to me by an order of magnitude. Not that it even remotely matters!
Stroking my ego always matters:)

Stroking my ego always matters:)

Still the same then :p

Stroking my ego always matters:)

O.O
Egos are bad...they cause fights....mostly between males.

Still the same then :p
ALIEN BORN!!!???? Are you back for a while? Wohoo!

And yes, I'm still the same vain little Indian:)

That may be true...but sexier just cause of a Gandi like stance?
Hell, yeah!

Whenever a woman justifiably flouts convention and takes a stand based on her own principles, I'm so pleasantly surprised that the euphoric neurochemicals in my head come out and party! Principled stands are dead sexy.

O.O
Egos are bad...they cause fights....mostly between males.
Ego is only bad when it's in control. That problem is an equal opportunity annoyer. Ego + absence of perspective = problem.

No, not 'saving' that girl...but the whole revved up level of violence on St. Paddy's Day. It's like an excuse to 'act Irish', which in the minds of the majority of non-Irish participants means drinking and fighting:).
nah, that's just the Alcohol. it happens all the time... or at least when the Id10t's have an exscuse to drink mass quantities. :D

I hope the potential victim bought you a beer.

I've talked my way out of situations, but not like that. I was about 22 or 23 was at a club with a friend, nursing a beer and trying to talk over loud pounding music waiting for girls to show up. I suddenly became aware that many people's attention had turned to something behind me- I turned to see a guy I knew-just to say hello- on the floor after being hit in the face. The guy that hit him had returned to the bar for some high fives with his buddies and the victim's girlfriend said they had been picking on the victim for an hour,something to do with her as she had dated one of them previously. As I'm standing there thinking about this, the one that threw the sucker punch, arrogant enough to stay in the bar, swaggers off to the men's room, as everyone eventually does. I gave him maybe ten seconds, walked in after him. He stood at the urinal doing his thing and I said "Wow, you really decked _____." He was pretty happy with himself, so I grabbed a fistfull of the hair on the back of his head and slammed his face into the tile several times and said "Too bad he's got friends too, huh?" I left him in a very sorry state and I WASNT arrogant enough to hang around- I motioned to my friend to follow and walked right out.
I guess the difference was-the person I acted for had already been victimized and humiliated. I'm only a pacifist when conditions for being so are perfect. Like right now.

Sin- how've you been aside from that? Havent seen you in days.

Egos are bad...they cause fights...
Actually, ego is a fight between superego and id.

Actually, ego is a fight between superego and id.


*L*

I hope the potential victim bought you a beer. No, she actually left. She was pretty shaken.

Sin- how've you been aside from that? Havent seen you in days.
The kids have been sick, so I've been at home cleaning up puke and other unmentionable bodily fluids. But I'm fine:)

Most people assume pacifism means running away. Well, it's more complicated than that.
Exactly. Running away is unique to the special French version of pacifism.

No, she actually left. She was pretty shaken.


The kids have been sick, so I've been at home cleaning up puke and other unmentionable bodily fluids. But I'm fine:)


It sounds like she woulda been worse if you werent there-or willing to stick up for her.

Sorry to hear about the kids. Hope they're better now.

Exactly. Running away is unique to the special French version of pacifism.
Badoom doom doom dum.

Pacifism is one of the hardest beliefs to hold on to, and I applaud you for making such an effort. Personally, I'm a huge supporter in Political pacifism, but I've faced lot's of challenges becoming peaceful personally. I haven't reacted with physical violence in many years (other than defending myself jokingly when my friend beats me up), but I'm definately a shouter. I get so frustrated. It's mostly because I'm so easily hurt, and I'm vulnerable in a sense that everyone knows exactly what to say to hit me the hardest. Hearing about your dedication to pacifism is definately inspiring. Stay peaceful!

However, over the years I've embraced pacifism.
I don't have a problem with your beliefs, as long as you don't try to force them on the rest of us. :)

ALIEN BORN!!!???? Are you back for a while? Wohoo!

And yes, I'm still the same vain little Indian:)
*gasp* Alien Born returns? Is he still living in Brazil?

I gave him maybe ten seconds, walked in after him. He stood at the urinal doing his thing and I said "Wow, you really decked _____." He was pretty happy with himself, so I grabbed a fistfull of the hair on the back of his head and slammed his face into the tile several times and said "Too bad he's got friends too, huh?" I left him in a very sorry state and I WASNT arrogant enough to hang around- I motioned to my friend to follow and walked right out.
Fuck yeah! Nice one! Way to show an asshole his limits.

Exactly. Running away is unique to the special French version of pacifism.
Is it even possible for a French person to be pacifist?

It's good to see a story of pacifism as a strength. Reading I completely expected to read, "So, I punched him in the face." I think it's underestimated what good pacifists can do in society.

It's good to see a story of pacifism as a strength. Reading I completely expected to read, "So, I punched him in the face." I think it's underestimated what good pacifists can do in society.
Well, Carnivorous interjected such a story, if you need to slake your thirst for violence:)

Well, Carnivorous interjected such a story, if you need to slake your thirst for violence:)
No... I just got the Godfather game. As a pacifist I feel I need to blow up cartoon characters in order to deal with it.

*gasp* Alien Born returns? Is he still living in Brazil?

See my location data.



Is it even possible for a French person to be pacifist?
First they have to be a person.

Seriously I am a pacifist, but being the size of the average NFL linebacker makes it much easier. I walk up to a problem situation like the one Sinuhue described and people stop stop when I ask them to. I guess it is some compensation for the problems in fitting into public transport etc.

Congratulations on finding a non-violent solution to your problems. Maybe you should talk to Bush? :p