NationStates Jolt Archive


Free Speech vs. Race Relations

Philosopy
23-03-2006, 18:29
A lecturer has just been suspended from a British university for saying that "he supported a theory that white people were generally more intelligent."

I completely disagree with what he is saying, but surely the very point of free speech is that ideas are put forward and, if they are foolish, they can be beaten back with reason and debate?

In this case, I find it an especially peculiar course of action, because I don't actually believe that the chap was being racist; he simply highlighted the work of another survey. There is no evidence he had ever discriminated against students.

Should he have been suspended?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4838498.stm
Drunk commies deleted
23-03-2006, 18:32
Unless he did something discriminatory and unjust, like grading non-white students lower, he should not have been suspended. Everyone is entitled to his or her own views even if they're racist.
Kzord
23-03-2006, 18:33
His university can suspend him if they want. If he doesn't like it he can get a different job.
Righteous Munchee-Love
23-03-2006, 18:34
I´ld argue somewhere along the lines of "Sure, he´s entitled to his own views, but not as a teacher in a place of education, telling bullshit to gullible children" and try to hide the university part - if I where in a mood to argue, that is.
Sinuhue
23-03-2006, 18:36
Ay, so touchy...I am generally against censoring professors, regardless of their personal or political beliefs, as long as those beliefs are presented in a respectful manner. However, some beliefs are inherently disrespectful...this would be one of them. I don't necessarily believe that means this lecturer should lose his job, and I would prefer to see a shitstorm of debate. Maybe through debate, this person could have a change of opinion. If not, at least those who might blindly support him could have their views questioned.

Really, the last place we need to be restricting thought and speech is in our post-secondary institutions.
HeyRelax
23-03-2006, 18:36
I think what he was saying was speaking of averages, and making a statement reflecting his observations.

He wasn't saying 'All white people are smarter than all black people', he was saying something more along the lines of 'Take one white person and one black person, there's a 51% chance the white person will be the smarter of the two'. I disagree with that statement, and if there's any truth in it at all it's in the anti-intellectualism of black culture. But, that's a nurture thing, not a nature.
BogMarsh
23-03-2006, 18:37
He's shouting that the Emperor has no clothes.
I do not know whether the emperor is actually naked or not.
But... I do know that shouting about the clothes of the Emperor isn't necessarily wise.

The equality of all men is problably a fiction without much grounding in reality - but can a Democracy afford not to enforce such a collective fiction?
Sinuhue
23-03-2006, 18:39
His university can suspend him if they want. If he doesn't like it he can get a different job.
I would really hope that Universities would hold themselves to a higher standard of academic freedom. If you have what it takes to make it into post-secondary education, then surely you have the ability to form your own opinions, and engage in some critical thinking? Students SHOULD be exposed to a variety of different viewpoints. Again, were students to be penalised, graded lower, or made to feel threatened by this lecturer, then an investigation would be necessary. Granted, the University can do what it wants (within the law) to its staff, but knee-jerk reactions based on a fear of damage to the University's reputation (for that is what I think motivated this dismissal) should be avoided.
Upper Botswavia
23-03-2006, 18:45
If he said it as a private citizen, unconnected with his job, then no, they should not have fired him.

If he used the pulpit of a classroom lecture, and the university feels this is an inappropriate use of the time they are paying him for, then yes, they have the right to fire him.

It is not a "free speech" issue if he is being paid for it.
GreaterPacificNations
23-03-2006, 18:45
The Uni has every right to suspend him if they don't like it (so long as it's in the contract). If he's unhappy he should find a uni which is cool with racism, or one which will forfeit their ability to suspend him in the employment contract. He should not be discriminated by the government, nor should he lose his job. He should be turkey slapped by a team of well endowed ethnics. Racists suck balls.
HeyRelax
23-03-2006, 18:52
The Uni has every right to suspend him if they don't like it (so long as it's in the contract). If he's unhappy he should find a uni which is cool with racism, or one which will forfeit their ability to suspend him in the employment contract. He should not be discriminated by the government, nor should he lose his job. He should be turkey slapped by a team of well endowed ethnics. Racists suck balls.

There you go, though. Political correctness has come so far that anybody who speaks about any difference between races at all gets labelled a racist. Chris Rock makes millions of dollars of telling us how black people are different than white people, but if white people say it, they get sternly lectured by their boss and threatened to be fired.

Making an academic observation that is wrong, based on empirical unbiased observation, is not racist. Being wrong is not the same as being stupid, or hateful.

And yes, of course they have a *right* to fire him. Just like I have a right to fill my living room with cow manure. It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Philosopy
23-03-2006, 19:09
The Uni has every right to suspend him if they don't like it (so long as it's in the contract). If he's unhappy he should find a uni which is cool with racism, or one which will forfeit their ability to suspend him in the employment contract. He should not be discriminated by the government, nor should he lose his job. He should be turkey slapped by a team of well endowed ethnics. Racists suck balls.
Was he actually racist though? He quoted a study; he never discriminated against different people. Is it wrong to say you agree with someone else's 'facts?'
Keruvalia
23-03-2006, 19:12
So this guy shouldn't be suspended, but profs who espouse a "liberal agenda" should? Hmmm. Nice.
Kzord
23-03-2006, 19:16
I would really hope that Universities would hold themselves to a higher standard of academic freedom. If you have what it takes to make it into post-secondary education, then surely you have the ability to form your own opinions, and engage in some critical thinking? Students SHOULD be exposed to a variety of different viewpoints. Again, were students to be penalised, graded lower, or made to feel threatened by this lecturer, then an investigation would be necessary. Granted, the University can do what it wants (within the law) to its staff, but knee-jerk reactions based on a fear of damage to the University's reputation (for that is what I think motivated this dismissal) should be avoided.

Well, I was being rather idealistic in my post. I don't think people should work for organizations if they disagree with the leadership. You could see it as denying the university freedom if they were forced to let their employee say such things.
Dinaverg
23-03-2006, 19:20
Eh....Whites and asians are about the same, white people don't use it as much, from within the african-american background, I'd say it's just most black people being stupid. Suburban black people anyways....and I have a hypothesis that the way they've been raised has an effect on this. A black girl adopted and raised by white parents isn't nearly as bad as most...but proximity with a number of other black girls tends to accentuate some remaining characteristics common to then race and gender.
Ashmoria
23-03-2006, 19:24
hmmmm

Dr Frank Ellis was suspended from his post as a lecturer at Leeds University pending disciplinary procedures.

The university emphasised that the suspension was not itself a penalty but said it had been deemed appropriate given "the seriousness of the issues".

The lecturer in Russian and Slavonic Studies told a student newspaper there was a "persistent gap" in IQ levels.

More than 500 students signed a petition calling for him to be sacked.

Many of them later demonstrated in Leeds against his views.

Leeds University had previously said that those views were "abhorrent" but there was no evidence he had discriminated against students.


i think they should leave him alone unless he starts talking about race in his classes. to dicipline him for having racists viewpoints is bringing in the thought police.

doesnt he have the right to hold racist opinions? dont we ALL have that right? this is indeed a free speech issue and i have to support him even if i disagree with him.
Dododecapod
23-03-2006, 19:39
Yeah, well, just remember: unless you're in the US, Japan, or France, there is no right to free speech.

If there was such a thing in Britain, then this case would certainly violate it. Especially since he was talking about an OBSERVED PHENOMENA; he's not inciting racial hatred or any of that other bull they try to feed us, just cmmenting on what he sees.
Philosopy
23-03-2006, 22:46
Eh....Whites and asians are about the same, white people don't use it as much, from within the african-american background, I'd say it's just most black people being stupid. Suburban black people anyways....and I have a hypothesis that the way they've been raised has an effect on this. A black girl adopted and raised by white parents isn't nearly as bad as most...but proximity with a number of other black girls tends to accentuate some remaining characteristics common to then race and gender.
So you agree with what the Professor was saying?