NationStates Jolt Archive

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

In my daily coexistance with humans.

In my daily coexistance with humans.

Damn, beat me to it.

Damn, beat me to it.
and me

Damn, beat me to it.
Ditto.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
Well, I just ask myself "if someone else did this would I give a crap?" if the answer is no, I feel I'm morally allowed to do it. For example pre marital sex, I don't give a crap if someone else gets laid, so I feel free to do the same.

I don't have morals, and don't feel any need for them, thank you very much.

From being human. The co-existence with other humans reinforces this, but my moral sentiments are there prior to that fact.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

We find them by deciding on our own what is right or wrong. You don't need a code of arbitrary rules to do that.

Personally, I follow the old code of don't do to others what you'd rather they didn't do to you.

enlightened self interest

We find them by deciding on our own what is right or wrong. You don't need a code of arbitrary rules to do that.

Personally, I follow the old code of don't do to others what you'd rather they didn't do to you.
ok, i was just wondering...

when you say that you get your morals "from Christianity" what exactly do you mean by that?


I am Christian and I get my morals from myself. Common sense and treating others like I would like to be treated has gotten me pretty far in life.

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.

Instead these people rely on the arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational codes of behavior derived from their own subjective wants and desires. Any moral code that coresponds to said wants and desires must, of course, be "reasonable" by definition, otherwise the individual in question would not want or desire it. ;) Edit: "Reason" is just as arbitrary as any religious code of behavior; simply note the vast array of political or moral positions who will all claim to have "reason" on their side.

Untimately, moral behavior comes down to rapidly expanding gasses escaping from the barrel of a gun. Everything else is just a pleasant euphemism.

enlightened self interest

Here's a "hell yes" to that.

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.
amen to that.

thinking about and questioning morality defines my morals.
i'm obviously influenced by religious/christian morality as that's pervasive in western culture, thought, teaching and laws, but i do think outside the box on my own and don't just rely on that arbitary code

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

If there's one bit of Christian teaching that has had any impact on me, it's that. And that, along with what experience I have, is pretty much the basis for my morals and actions towards others.

I got mine as a gift on christmas.


no. I learned it is wrong to lie simply because it is. It is wrong to kill because it is (okay, I could give a better explanation than "it is", but my left hand is numb and I don't want to type it out). I don't need a cosmic smack on the ass to tell me what is right, I can figure that out for myself through reason and logic.

I buy mine from the morals store. They get fresh ones in every week.

Seriously, though, my moral/ethical code comes from reason + observing and interacting with the world around me + enlightened self interest + imagination, i.e. making the effort to imagine what it's like to be the other guy (which seems to have had the effect of making me a humanitarian and a cynic at the same time).

Experiences, common sense, feelings on certain things..

Good question, you get a cookie!

I treat people how i want to be treated, which does come from a Christian ideal, but that's not where i get it from. I feel sad if someone hurts me, i feel betrayed if someone lies to me, i feel insulted if someone hurls some bigotted comment at me, etc. I would never want to make someone feel those things, it's about empathy. I want the freedom to live my life in the way i choose, as long as i'm not hurting anyone, everyone else deserves that as much as i do. Live and let live.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
I'm an atheist with no morals. I'm going to shoot you in the head now, before going off and sleeping with my young sister.

In all seriousness though, most people, Christians, atheists, whatever, get their morals from their culture more than from their religion.

I'm an atheist with no morals. I'm going to shoot you in the head now, before going off and sleeping with my young sister.

*hands you a trophy for making me laugh out loud*

I'm an atheist with no morals. I'm going to shoot you in the head now, before going off and sleeping with my young sister.
hawt.

Most morals are common sense. You don't need religious dogma to tell you killing and stealing are bad.

i get mine from everyday life and being in High School.

*hands you a trophy for making me laugh out loud*

*ahem*


i want cookies

*ahem*


i want cookies

Check the trophy. It has a buttload (yes, a buttload) of cookies in it.

Usually, my moral reasoning involves "Will I go to jail for a long time?"

Here's mine, simplified to its core: Do as you will, but harm none. A most excellent philosophy, if I do say so myself. Which I do. Say so, I mean.

Tally another vote on the "not a dumbshit" column.

Golden Rule, common sense (which may or may not be common), interaction, the ability to observe results of your actions, etc.

All the good parts of Christianity that boil down to "play nice" without the stupid genocidal drawbacks!

In my daily coexistance with humans.

Bingo. The human experience is the best teacher yet.

i was walking down the street and went past a church. the rest of the day i followed the 10 commandments. the next day i walked past a synagogue, and the rest of the day i followed the 10 commandments. the next day i walked past a mosque, and followed the teachings of mohammed. etc etc etc. all religions extoll the same basic moral guiding. these came not from god, but from humans.

note : the best day of last week was when i walked past the strip club.

Most morals are common sense. You don't need religious dogma to tell you killing and stealing are bad.
Well, maybe we don't. I've met supposedly very religious people, of several different religions, who have actually said to me, "If it wasn't for religious faith, what would stop us all from killing each other?"

I get away from those people as fast as I can.

I buy mine from the morals store. They get fresh ones in every week.

Seriously, though, my moral/ethical code comes from reason + observing and interacting with the world around me + enlightened self interest + imagination, i.e. making the effort to imagine what it's like to be the other guy (which seems to have had the effect of making me a humanitarian and a cynic at the same time).
ah yes, compassion and empathy... where would morality be without them?


i was walking down the street and went past a church. the rest of the day i followed the 10 commandments. the next day i walked past a synagogue, and the rest of the day i followed the 10 commandments. the next day i walked past a mosque, and followed the teachings of mohammed. etc etc etc. all religions extoll the same basic moral guiding. these came not from god, but from humans.

note : the best day of last week was when i walked past the strip club.
haha very good :p
(and true!)

all religions extoll the same basic moral guiding. these came not from god, but from humans.
Excepting, of course, those that advocate human sacrifice, animal cruelty, sexual acts with children, sexual acts with animals, sexual acts with relatives, murder, theft, assisination, etc
Just because all people's of the book play by more or less the same rules doesn't mean anything other than that neither Jesus nor Mohammed were willing to stray to far from the game that Abraham set up.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
From understanding that:

* Life is, as far as we know, a relatively rare phenomenon in the universe.

* We are a part of life.

* We are, so far as we know at this point, the only form of life with an ability to plan and execute actions using tools and reason.

* Ergo: a major part of our purpose for existing is to sustain and support life wherever we find it.

All else follows from that.

A combanation of empathy and utilitarianism.

If you are religious, where do you get your morals? Why do you think you should just steal God's?

Here's mine, simplified to its core: Do as you will, but harm none. A most excellent philosophy, if I do say so myself. Which I do. Say so, I mean.

The Wiccan Rede to my mind is a better way to put it than the Golden Rule. The Wiccan Rede is the basic guideline of Wicca, which is often stated thusly "An' harm it none, do what thou will." That is, you have the freedom to make the choices you want to make, provided you are making them with the intent not to cause harm.

The Golden Rule says "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and has more flaws in it, in that it assumes others would WANT done to them what you want done to you.

No morals.

Fuck it.

Do what you like.

I just try not to do things such that I get caught, as from all I hear, prison (Or Juvenile Hall, as the case may be) Is not a fun place to be.

Usually, my moral reasoning involves "Will I go to jail for a long time?"

That is the last thing I would think of. Well, maybe second to last. Dead last would be something about it being ok in the Christian/Muslim moral code.

Laws are completely unapplicable. Sometimes, the law IS moral, such as rape/murder being wrong. Most of the time, the law is arbitrary. For instance, I do not find anything immoral about having a pound of pot in my house.

I get mine from Bill and Ted;

"Be excellent to each other."

Actually, I think the best form of the Golden Rule is "Do not do to others what you wouldn't want done to you". That leaves a whole lot open.

As far as people getting morals from "somewhere", I would say that is delusional. If one has morals, the only way to explain them is "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do". If someone explains their morals as "because God says so", to me, that would infer that they would choose to do differently had God not said otherwise. The very idea of needing a God to establish morals is degrading to the human condition. It would make followers of God to be nothing more than trained animals at the end of a supernatural leash.

It would make followers of God to be nothing more than trained animals at the end of a supernatural leash.

But isn't that true? :p

I once looked in the bottom of a cereal box and there they were!

the basic premise of the first thread in this topic could, cruelly, but honestly, be broken down to:

"I have been told about, but probably only read parts of, a book that has been handed down through many generations of ambitious people since the bronze age who have bent its meaning to their own agendas. This has lead me to believe that I should not rape and murder etc, because the big angry man with the long beard who lives in the sky will punish me if i do.
As an atheist, what is your reason for not raping, stealing and murdering at will without the fear of the big beardy in the sky to keep you in line?"

(yes ok its a bit of a strawman)

I get my morals from the society in which I grew up. That society contained a large proportion of christian ideals, which in turn grew up as a formalisation of simple rules for not getting into lethal conflicts with your neighbours during pre-literate times.
If you want evidence in support of my assertion that christianity is an outgrowth of earlier belief systems just look at the correlation between core values of the three desert monotheisms and try to understand how that is logically a result of the three growing from a common ancestor faith.

From logic and society.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
Saying you get your morals from Christianity doesn't say much considering how many thousands of people have died in the name of that religion over the centuries.

But to answer your question, I get my morals from a much, much higher source: Common Sense.

:cool:

"Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior."

I generally don't rely on it, but... ditto.

I attended bible studies for 5 years. I've seen a bunch of sides of religion, I've had way too many discussions about it. I'm an atheist and proud of it. I got to where I am as far as this subject goes through personal observation. & if you are religious, you have to at least be able to stand back and observe it, and be unafraid of having your beliefs challenged.

In all seriousness though, most people, Christians, atheists, whatever, get their morals from their culture more than from their religion.
Culture and religion generally develop alongside each other

My morals were created by dealing with people whose morals were shaped by religion, which, in turn, was dicitated by the morals and beliefs of others.

I get my morals from beer commercials and the TV Guide "Cheers and Jeers" section.

:p I get my morals from beer commercials and the TV Guide "Cheers and Jeers" section.

Ah. People on here have good humour.

Social evolution of the conscience to keep the human race from going entirely beserk. Being a good person makes you more fulfilled with your conscience, so you're a happier person. It's no more selfish a reason for being good than wanting to go to heaven.

There seem to be a hell of a lot of atheists here (irony very much intended)--hooray!

The Autobot Matrix of Leadership, duh.

So, what is the moral of this thread?

So, what is the moral of this thread?
I think that this thread exists to encourage someone out there in the world to create a shirt that says: "I went to Church and all I got were these stupid morals."

I used to get my morals from the hot end of my crack-pipe. Now, I receive them from God. Funny thing is, they're nearly identical.

I think that this thread exists to encourage someone out there in the world to create a shirt that says: "I went to Church and all I got were these stupid morals."
I'd buy it.

Morality IS deeply rooted in religion, for sure. However, they are no longer defined by belief in those religions. Morality is a byproduct of religion. However, I personally have discarded religion. That doesn't mean I've discarded the morals, too.

Well, I am somewhat religious/spiritual at the moment, but I haven't always been, but my morals have pretty much stayed the same. I suppose ultimately I get my morals from my parents, but doesn't everybody? Even religious people, usually if they consider their morals as coming from their religion, it's because their parents told them the religion had good morals. The way I usually think of it, though, is that my morals come from the desire to have a nice, peaceful world. So I do what I want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. It's pretty close* to the Wiccan Rede, but I felt this way before I found out about that so that's not where it comes from.

*It is not exactly the same, as I'm not averse to hurting myself mildly if that's what I feel like doing. I don't cut or anything serious but I find no moral qualm with cutting off circulation to a finger for an hour to amuse myself, for example. Or attempting to hold my breath until I pass out (I've never succeeded).

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

I hope I'm not reading this correctly, but it sounds like you're assuming that Christianity is the only religion that can be a source of morality.

That aside, my ethics developed out of trying to put myself in the other's place (empathy). If I felt that I wasn't going to like being treated a certain way, then, by extension, the other wasn't going to like it either. By and large, this works. I know very few people who appreciate being robbed, lied to, physically abused, ignored and otherwise injured.

So where does religion get it's morals? Same place that non religious people get theirs. It's really a stupid question. Ethics are derived from inherent characteristics in man, not from some religion,

(anyone who answered "From God" to that rhetorical question should now go slam their head in a door, maybe it'll help... )

I know right from wrong. That simple. I don't need religion to tell me this.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

If there's one bit of Christian teaching that has had any impact on me, it's that.
Really? All that taught this masochist was to become a sadist.
Damn! Now I'm confused!

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.

Hmm, but is this the basis for the argument of C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity" that there is in fact a god? So many people in so many societies/cultures have developed a moral philosphy that recognizes certain, commonly observed behaviours as immoral that the only logical explanation for the phenomina is that God does exist and has created a moral sense in humans? (NOTE: I am not claiming I subscribe to this idea, I'm only pointing out an argument for comment in this thread).

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:I get them by thinking how I would like to be treated in said situation.

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.

Ouch, scathing.
i happen to agree though. just because i am not religious, does that make me immoral, corrupt, and just generally a not very nice person? i think not. look at America for example. it is one of the largest christian/catholic etc... countries in the world, and just look at its immorality and other similar things. You invaded a country, against the better judgement of the UN and alot of your population, just because you suspected there were WMD's hidden somewhere. now before someone bites my head off, i know that large parts of american society did not agree with the invasion.

also, look at the Morals of the KKK. these absolutely disgusting people were Christian, and used the bible to attempt to rationalise and make socially acceptable what they were doing.

i get my morals from being HUMAN. this is basically, however, what the bible preaches. so i guess you could say that all rational people get their morals from being human, and the Bible is only being human put down on paper, with some other things thrown in to reinforce the message. i guess maybe the Koran and other religious texts are the same but i have never read any of these.

Reason. Believe it or not, some people develop their own moral philosophy of what is or is not right, and don't rely on arbitrary, mystical, non-objective, irrational religious codes of behavior.
Same here :D
Of course, "reason" is something totally unknown to the average religious person, so they need their religion to provide them with morals :p

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:


Rolling a couple of special dice.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:


worst place ever, seriously why do you people need scaring into being nice to eachother, just hangout with some hippies for an education in non religious morality

For starters religion hasnt always existed. We don't know when it started. But for thoose of us who believe in evolution there had to be a point of time where humanity had comprehended the idea of morality but had yet developed the capability of religion. Religion of course requires the ability of complex story telling, and even thoose of us who believe in religion have to accept that the first religions were simply wrong and not in any dignified way. However morality just requires the ability not to fuck over your fellow man.

Culture and religion generally develop alongside each other

My morals were created by dealing with people whose morals were shaped by religion, which, in turn, was dicitated by the morals and beliefs of others.
Of course. But think about it. American Christians and European Christians, despite following the same book, typically have different morals. For example, European Christians, especially Catholics, think that no killing is ever justified. However, many American Christians would consider killing someone who was trying to steal your property "justified homocide". These attitudes are shaped by culture not religion. America has a culture more permissive of violence than Europe.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

Funny...I find this phrase somewhat sad.

Millions of people, most of whom will never look beyond the six inches in front of their face and experience life to the point that their own interactions lead them to form morals of their own.

How could one claim to have lived a full life without having developed one's own morals?

I think that this thread exists to encourage someone out there in the world to create a shirt that says: "I went to Church and all I got were these stupid morals."

Awesome shirt.

It's like what Socrates said - Is something right because God says it is right, or does God say it is right because it is right?

In my opinion, religious code of conducts tend to evolve as follows

1. If I steal from my neighbour, he will come and smash my head in with a rock.
2. Stealing means bad things will happen.
3. Stealing is wrong.
4. Thou shalt not steal.

The point is, religious rules tend to evolve along what is best for society (which is why the basic moral code of nearly all major religions is virtually the same). Therefore, they are a pretty good guide to a reasonable social order.

The problem comes when people become completly obsessed with following religious rules - even the relativly minor ones - and decide that everyone who doesn't is evil.

Religious texts are written by men, as a way to spread understanding of the universe. As we find out more about the universe, that understanding evolves too.

There may be a god, there may not. All we can do is interpret the information we have, and hope we get it vaguely right

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:

I stole mine from my slightly senile Grandfather!

I use a crude form of enlightened self-interest - I do what I want, sometimes thinking ahead and considering whether it will benefit me in the long run or not, and all the while trying to stay out of prison.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
The corner convenience store has them on sale 2 for 1.

The problem comes when people become completly obsessed with following religious rules - even the relativly minor ones - and decide that everyone who doesn't is evil.
Aye; at the expense of the religion. When the religion goes from being "I define my relationship with god" to "I must obey the relationship previously laid down for me," the religion is lost.

Religious texts are written by men, as a way to spread understanding of the universe. As we find out more about the universe, that understanding evolves too.

There may be a god, there may not. All we can do is interpret the information we have, and hope we get it vaguely right
Religious texts are not written to "spread understanding," but rather to assist people in finding their own understanding. If all you are doing is spreading someone else's understanding, what someone else laid down, then religion is lost.

I get my morals from beer commercials and the TV Guide "Cheers and Jeers" section.
Then you're not a "real" Muslim. ( shrug )

My "morals" if you would call them that are discoveries and deductions from my experience in the world.

The Marquis de Sade. ;) :D

I get my morals through introspection.

I think about how, if everybody acted, the world would be the happiest place for as many people as possible. And I act that way. My morals come from an honest desire to see people live together peacefully and be happy.

I have a feeling religious people get their morals the same way. They just read religious texts and decide they agree. At least, hopefully. There are some religious people who read religious texts and then dogmatically force their one interpretation of them on everybody. Those people are not very moral people.

I get my morals from christianity, but where do non-relegious people get their morals? :confused:
Why assume that I have a need for morals? Why assume that I even believe in morality at all?

Categorical imperative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_Imperative)

I get mine from wikipedia.

Personally, I go by "Do not cause harm without a good reason"

Why assume that I have a need for morals? Why assume that I even believe in morality at all?
Do the concepts of "right" and "wrong" exist? Do people act in accord with them? If so, then you believe in morality.

the same place you actually get them. Instinct. Its part of being an instinctually social animal.

What the fuck are morals?! :confused:

Well, let's see. Would I like it if someone killed, injured or robbed me? Nope. So I don't do it to others. I didn't need a book of homilies to tell me that. See, that also allows for me to be able to live with anything that other people are okay with so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. That's where religion and I part ways. Me no likey abortions? Me no have one. Simple grammar for a simple idea.

Do the concepts of "right" and "wrong" exist? Do people act in accord with them?
Ask Tammy Bruce. That Neocon dyke thinks she knows all about right and wrong.

My parents taught me better morals than I’d get from watching Pat Robertson, although to be fair he’s a radical prima donna who shouldn’t’ be used to generalize about all Christians. They taught me not to be prejudiced against minorities; to respect everyone as a human being until they prove otherwise; to lend a hand to your neighbour; not to victimize the weak; to work hard; not to trust the word of the Powers that Be; and to do the right thing instead of the easy thing, even when no good deed goes unpunished. It helped me a lot in life and allowed me to see things a bit more clearly. Of course I could have learned a lot of that stuff from watching the movie, Superman, but it was nice to get some of those notions backed up in real life.

It’s not necessary to be religious to have morals and it’s not necessarily the case that people who call themselves religious act in a moral manner.

In my daily coexistance with humans.

...and me.

What the fuck are morals?! :confused:
I think it’s something they do in Europe.

Usually, I try to be as much as possible like people would be in my ideal anarcho-commie state. But sometimes, those few who don't think like I do (ok, so, everybody I have physically met) force me to behave in accord to established social norms like competition.

Damn.