NationStates Jolt Archive

Georgia's legislature has passed a bill to put bible study classes in the state's schools. The law allows students to bring their own version of the bible to the class, but the teacher will use a version voted upon by the town or county. I wonder if they'll allow students to bring the Koran or the Satanic bible if they choose to? After all, we wouldn't want to violate their freedom of religion.

Not sure why anyone would want to bring a Qu'ran to a "Bible Study" class, but whatever. As long as they keep Bible study to a specific class and out of the science classroom, so be it.

Georgia's legislature has passed a bill to put bible study classes in the state's schools. The law allows students to bring their own version of the bible to the class, but the teacher will use a version voted upon by the town or county. I wonder if they'll allow students to bring the Koran or the Satanic bible if they choose to? After all, we wouldn't want to violate their freedom of religion.
it's not a required class is it?

I don't see how it's violating someone's religious freedom to have an elective course that they aren't interested in.

As long as it's an elective, I have no problem w/ it. It would be better IMO if they had made it a "religious studies" class.

If it's mandatory, however, SCOTUS will most likely throw it out on its ear.

it's not a required class is it?

I don't see how it's violating someone's religious freedom to have an elective course that they aren't interested in.
I'd argue that using tax money to fund a class on christianity without funding any other religious classes is a violation of the establishment clause.

I'd argue that using tax money to fund a class on christianity without funding any other religious classes is a violation of the establishment clause.

Good point. However, it could be counter-argued that the class is a comparative study of a piece of classic liturature.

I'd argue that using tax money to fund a class on christianity without funding any other religious classes is a violation of the establishment clause.
interesting.

I am going to have to think on that............uh.......nope, I don't see it, you are going to have to do better than that.

Georgia's legislature has passed a bill to put bible study classes in the state's schools. The law allows students to bring their own version of the bible to the class, but the teacher will use a version voted upon by the town or county. I wonder if they'll allow students to bring the Koran or the Satanic bible if they choose to? After all, we wouldn't want to violate their freedom of religion.
Well at least it is a seperate class

Personally I bet there are going to have a whole rash of issues. I somehow bet there are going to be a few teachers that wont be able to keep grading in the realm of how WELL the students know it, and move on to grading on how much they agree with it.

Georgia's legislature has passed a bill to put bible study classes in the state's schools. The law allows students to bring their own version of the bible to the class, but the teacher will use a version voted upon by the town or county. I wonder if they'll allow students to bring the Koran or the Satanic bible if they choose to? After all, we wouldn't want to violate their freedom of religion.As long as it isn't mandatory to attend, I couldn't care less.

Good point. However, it could be counter-argued that the class is a comparative study of a piece of classic liturature.

I took a bible as lit class ... 5 years ago in highschool
I really dont know why this is news lol

interesting.

I am going to have to think on that............uh.......nope, I don't see it, you are going to have to do better than that.

Not necessarily. It depends on how they teach it. If they teach it as a study of theology or as a comparative study, it could stand, if it's taught as "truth", then it will be thrown out.

Not necessarily. It depends on how they teach it. If they teach it as a study of theology or as a comparative study, it could stand, if it's taught as "truth", then it will be thrown out.
If they're only using the Christian bible what could they be comparing it to?

If they're only using the Christian bible what could they be comparing it to?
We compared it to other literature

Georgia's legislature has passed a bill to put bible study classes in the state's schools. The law allows students to bring their own version of the bible to the class, but the teacher will use a version voted upon by the town or county. I wonder if they'll allow students to bring the Koran or the Satanic bible if they choose to? After all, we wouldn't want to violate their freedom of religion.
If public schools actually included good, thorough, well-taught classes about the Bible, a lot of Christian parents would be shrieking in horror. Critical examination of the Bible, both as a historical and literary work, is something that most religious fundamentalists detest. A good Bible study class would include comparisons with other philosophical and religious works, and that is another thing that most fundies can't handle.

In any other class that focuses on literature, you analyze the work. You examine it critically. You place it in cultural and historical context. That is what it means to really study a book. The reality is that the parents who most strongly oppose REAL study of the Bible are most often Christians. They want children to be taught NOT to study the Bible, but rather to memorize it and obey a particular interpretation of Biblical passages. That ain't study, that's making puppies jump through a hoop.

It is entirely elective.

I have problems with this law, but the elective/compulsary thing is not it.

Okay - here's the problem as I see it:

If we schedule elective bible study, we need to have someone to teach it.

That person should know the material, should have a passing acquanitance (at least) with the history of the text, and of the time.

That person also MUST maintain separation.

And this is where the problem lies... HOW do you ensure separation? How do you ensure that what is (according to the law) SUPPOSED to be a history of the time, DOESN'T turn into preaching, in the hands of the over-zealous?

Only way I can see - it to specifically TRAIN those teachers on 'separation' issues... which adds another requirement, another 'course' that the taxpayers have to pay for.


My other problem, of course, is that Christians don't have to obey the law on this issue... or rather, according to scripture, THEIR law supercedes this 'law'.

Seriously, if there is a Christian leading this class, and 'he/she feels the spirit move him/her to speak on Salvation'...

If they're only using the Christian bible what could they be comparing it to?

Itself. Like the article said, there will be different versions. The whole murder/kill debate alone can get quite lively.

Like I said, I'm not necessarily agreeing w/ the class, just giving it the benefit of the doubt (for now).

I took a "History of Christianity" in college. I spent a semester being preached to. Literally. From the number of complaints the professor recieved due to no "history" actually being taught, they took it away from that professor and gave it to another. The new prof. was a devout Lutheran but taught it has an actual history class and not a sermon. She was nice enough to let me sit in.

If public schools actually included good, thorough, well-taught classes about the Bible, a lot of Christian parents would be shrieking in horror. Critical examination of the Bible, both as a historical and literary work, is something that most religious fundamentalists detest. A good Bible study class would include comparisons with other philosophical and religious works, and that is another thing that most fundies can't handle.

In any other class that focuses on literature, you analyze the work. You examine it critically. You place it in cultural and historical context. That is what it means to really study a book. The reality is that the parents who most strongly oppose REAL study of the Bible are most often Christians. They want children to be taught NOT to study the Bible, but rather to memorize it and obey a particular interpretation of Biblical passages. That ain't study, that's making puppies jump through a hoop.
I've got a feeling that this bible study will be structured in such a way as to make the fundies happy. I can't see the Georgia legislature passing a bill to make the local fundamentalists upset by making their kids question religion.

If public schools actually included good, thorough, well-taught classes about the Bible, a lot of Christian parents would be shrieking in horror. Critical examination of the Bible, both as a historical and literary work, is something that most religious fundamentalists detest. A good Bible study class would include comparisons with other philosophical and religious works, and that is another thing that most fundies can't handle.

In any other class that focuses on literature, you analyze the work. You examine it critically. You place it in cultural and historical context. That is what it means to really study a book. The reality is that the parents who most strongly oppose REAL study of the Bible are most often Christians. They want children to be taught NOT to study the Bible, but rather to memorize it and obey a particular interpretation of Biblical passages. That ain't study, that's making puppies jump through a hoop.
Your reservations are mine as well

As I said we had a bible as lit class ... the teacher was amazing... but I was lucky

I've got a feeling that this bible study will be structured in such a way as to make the fundies happy. I can't see the Georgia legislature passing a bill to make the local fundamentalists upset by making their kids question religion.

You're probably right, but one can keep hoping for enlightenment. I'm sure it will depend on the school that does it which could result in a decision similar to the 10 commandments

Reminds of an "Introduction to God" course at a Uni I used to go to.
I didn't pick it BTW.

Reminds of an "Introduction to God" course at a Uni I used to go to.
So you were actually introduced to God? What's he like?

I've got a feeling that this bible study will be structured in such a way as to make the fundies happy. I can't see the Georgia legislature passing a bill to make the local fundamentalists upset by making their kids question religion.

Supposedly, the Bible is SO important to every aspect of Western life, that it is important that a course explaining the history of the text is necessary (though elective).

Basically, the idea is SUPPOSED to be, that it will discuss the time the text was written, and the culture in which it was written.

ALL of which is bullshit, of course... because we can't nail MOST of the Bible books to a century or a nation, much less anything more 'specific'...

So you were actually introduced to God? What's he like?

He was rather busy to talk to some stupid uni students :D

He was rather busy to talk to some stupid uni students :D
Well that's just lousy customer service.

Your reservations are mine as well

As I said we had a bible as lit class ... the teacher was amazing... but I was lucky
Study of the Bible was also included in my AP Lit class, because so much of Western literature includes Biblical references, Christ figures, and images related to Biblical themes. Understanding the Bible as a work is important for understanding a lot of elements in Western culture, so I do believe that it is important for students to study it. However, I want them to actually STUDY IT, not to be force-fed some nonsense about how a book on talking snakes and magic zombies is the key to the afterlife.

I think most "Bible Study" classes actually trivialize the Bible's importance. The myths contained in the Bible aren't particularly original or useful in and of themselves, and teaching kids to believe in that kind of hokum is like teaching them that Aesop's Fables are important because there really are lots of talking animals in the world.

What is important is the way in which the Bible has influenced the world we live in. What is important is using the Bible as a way to understand our society's morals and foibles. It is even useful in understanding where a lot of misconceptions and tragedies have come from; not that the Bible CAUSED these things, but that the Bible has examples of people expressing the very misconceptions that still plague us to this day.

It's also fascinating from a mass-movement standpoint. Lots of different subjects can get some cool information from a thorough study of the Bible. Psychology, sociology, poli-sci, even advertising.

It's a shame that so many parents are determined to rob their children of the actual benefits that could come from serious Bible study.

Well that's just lousy customer service.

I suspect the Uni forgot to pay God's appearance fees.

I'd argue that using tax money to fund a class on christianity without funding any other religious classes is a violation of the establishment clause.
I agree.

Several excellent points in this thread so far. :)

I thinkthis issue rests on the definition of "Bible studies." If the course treats the Bible as literature and subjects it to critical examination in literary and historical/social contexts as an influential text in Western civilization, then it is a legitimate class for a public school.

But let's be realistic. We're talking about Georgia, USA. And it's happening now, in the midst of this latest great Protestant Reawakening we're all being treated to. The chances that this will not be a class of religious instruction, in effect just a week-day extension of Sunday school, are not worth betting on.

And don't forget, the term "Bible study class" or "Bible study group" is the standard name for when religious believers organize study groups, either in or outside of church, for the specific purpose of developing a religious and spiritual understanding of their holy text according to the tenets of their church. They are for the religious instruction of the readers, not critical examination of the text.

As far as I'm concerned, if the state gives public tax dollars to such a class, that is a violation of separation of church and state because it has the state paying for a religious practice. If the state further uses public tax dollars to fund a class that teaches the beliefs of only one religion, that's a violation of the establishment clause, specifically.

I'd argue that using tax money to fund a class on christianity without funding any other religious classes is a violation of the establishment clause.


It's be far more likely to violate this first.

Separation of church and state.
No money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.

It's be far more likely to violate this first.
Very intresting ... so many states seem to violate their own rules at times

Very intresting ... so many states seem to violate their own rules at times

People seem to forget that states even have constitutions, and that often their Bills of Rights are more comprehensive than what Uncle Sam has.

Georgia's state flag according to an old onion article.

http://i1.tinypic.com/s1miqr.jpg

I know it's got nothing to do with the thread. I just think it's funny.

Bible studies class as an elective? Well okay.

As long as it's not one of those electives you can use to fulfill your science requirements...

Well balls. Today's been a bad day for the good ol' Seperation of Church and State.

Good point. However, it could be counter-argued that the class is a comparative study of a piece of classic liturature.

It's not comparative unless you're reading something else to compare it to. Like the Quran, or the Norse sagas or something.