NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4827248.stm

So, how is it that the head of state can just come out and say, "So... we're reaching our maximums allowed... so I'll just increase them!"

Je ne comprend pas.

When is such massive debts and deficits too much?
I have yet to see any effect on the American economy, despite what appear to be absolutely crippling circumstances.
Who are the idiots continuing to lend them money so they can feed their all consuming war machine?
Seriously, 9 trillion in debt... I fail to understand how every American isn't really concerned about this spending trend of the Bush gov't.

When is it too much? Depends on your point of view. For me, we passed up too much a loooooong time ago and have been venturing into doom and gloom territory ever since, but I'm also the type who feels like we ought to actually plan for the future instead of pretending like we can continue to continue on the current course.

When is it too much? Depends on your point of view. For me, we passed up too much a loooooong time ago and have been venturing into doom and gloom territory ever since, but I'm also the type who feels like we ought to actually plan for the future instead of pretending like we can continue to continue on the current course.

On a bit of a tangent, have you already voted in the NS election?

On a bit of a tangent, have you already voted in the NS election?
Staying out of it--haven't been paying attention to any of the parties or manifestos. I don't have the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4827248.stm

So, how is it that the head of state can just come out and say, "So... we're reaching our maximums allowed... so I'll just increase them!"

Je ne comprend pas.

When is such massive debts and deficits too much?
I have yet to see any effect on the American economy, despite what appear to be absolutely crippling circumstances.
Who are the idiots continuing to lend them money so they can feed their all consuming war machine?
Seriously, 9 trillion in debt... I fail to understand how every American isn't really concerned about this spending trend of the Bush gov't.
We are quite concerned. But our last major effort to stop this resulted in a 51% victory for Bush. For fuck's sake..

We are quite concerned. But our last major effort to stop this resulted in a 51% victory for Bush. For fuck's sake..
Heh. You guys need to blame the nearly 50% americans who didn't bother getting up from the couch to cast their vote. Thanks to them, the whole world suffers for 4 more years. *grumble*

Heh. You guys need to blame the nearly 50% americans who didn't bother getting up from the couch to cast their vote. Thanks to them, the whole world suffers for 4 more years. *grumble*
Actually, I'm glad that those who didn't bother to vote never voted. I hope they never ever vote ever in their lives. If you're too lazy to vote, then I'm scared to think what's going on in your head as your making the important choice in the poll booth.

Heh. You guys need to blame the nearly 50% americans who didn't bother getting up from the couch to cast their vote. Thanks to them, the whole world suffers for 4 more years. *grumble*

For all you know, 99% of that 50% could have voted for Bush. Though, conservatives generally rush to the polls like good little sheep. Kerry probably would have pulled out a victory if every citizen of age voted. I'm not fond of him, but he couldn't have screwed up as bad as Bush.

Actually, I'm glad that those who didn't bother to vote never voted. I hope they never ever vote ever in their lives. If you're too lazy to vote, then I'm scared to think what's going on in your head as your making the important choice in the poll booth.
Heh, there's always the notion that most people thought nobody would be stupid enough to vote this guy into office a second time, and figured s/he might as well stay home. And then buses and buses of conservatives and christian fundies rushing to the booths to avoid losing this election to "liberal rabble".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4827248.stm

So, how is it that the head of state can just come out and say, "So... we're reaching our maximums allowed... so I'll just increase them!"

Je ne comprend pas.

When is such massive debts and deficits too much?
I have yet to see any effect on the American economy, despite what appear to be absolutely crippling circumstances.
Who are the idiots continuing to lend them money so they can feed their all consuming war machine?
Seriously, 9 trillion in debt... I fail to understand how every American isn't really concerned about this spending trend of the Bush gov't.

Blinks. You do realize that most european countries aren't proportionally that much better off. And that Japan is much, much much worse off. The debt was naturally going that way anyway, and would continue to do so without the war, just at a slightly slower pace. Really it has to do with all of the subsidies and things like SocSec and Medicare. As well the various federal health plans and salaries.

Blinks. You do realize that most european countries aren't proportionally that much better off. And that Japan is much, much much worse off. The debt was naturally going that way anyway, and would continue to do so without the war, just at a slightly slower pace. Really it has to do with all of the subsidies and things like SocSec and Medicare. As well the various federal health plans and salaries.
You're kind of right but also wrong at the same time. The debt -- which is a disaster gearing up to happen -- isn't about the war. It's not even really about Bush -- it would have gotten this high eventually anyway, though he is helping it climb as much as he can. But the debt also is not about Social Security or Medicare or any of your favorite knee-jerk demons.

The debt is about too much debt -- government debt, corporate debt, private debt, mortgage debt, credit card debt. Americans don't pay for anything any more. And we don't actually make anything that we could pay for stuff with -- you know, exchanges on open markets. We just do it all on credit. The so-called FIRE sector of the economy -- FIRE = Finance, Insurance, Real Estate -- has outstripped manufacturing to become 25% of our GDP. I learned this on CNN just today. The only thing fueling the FIRE sector is debt management. Millions of consumers have multiple credit card balances and multiple mortages on their properties. Same for millions of American businesses and landlords. Large corporations are all indebted up the wazoo. Do you have any idea of the trillions of dollars changing hands around the world every day just on buying and selling other people's debts? Americans are the biggest debtors in the world, and our government is no different. It borrows like a drunken sailor at the end of the world. Who do you think is paying for the Iraq war? Nobody!! It's all on credit. We're borrowing the money. From whom? China. The UAE (Dubai ports deal, anyone?). The Saudis. Most of Europe. Our boy Wolfowitz at the World Bank (or is it the IMF? Beside the point). Pretty much anyone we can get hold of. Hell, by the time Iraq is put together and the oil fields are back in business, we'll be borrowing from them, too, trust me.

And just for a laugh-happy kicker, the value of the US dollar is based on -- nothing tangible.

It's true. I saw a documentary just last night about the Federal Reserve Bank and how it works and what it does. It was like a bizarre dream.

The US dollar is based on no solid thing. Just an idea. A lovely shining idea = the Faith and Goodwill of the United States Government. Not business, not our enconomy, not gold or anything else. Just the idea that you can trust us. You bet.

And since we obviously have infinite faith and goodwill, well, hell -- why can't we print infinite dollar bills to go with it? It's not like it's ever going to end because -- don't you get it? -- it's faith-based!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! *leaps, laughing, into ocean and swims away*

I'm afraid you are witnessing the downfall of america from its superpower position. If the countries call in their loans now, american society collapses. Then china is in a sticky situation, as a huge amount of their exports go to america, and with the death of the dollar, they lose their market. There will be a few more repercussions around the world, not least that the loaning nations get a huge boost. I assume the debits will begin to be called in when oil starts to run out, and the nations need the money to invest in alternate energy and to get some of the last oil. At the same time america will call in their loans from third world countries, which will stop them from having the money to invest in developing the oil in their countries. Other coutries will get their hands on them, which will time them over until they have got other energy sources. We will come out of it with a strong europe, russia (all the oil they have got), japan (nuclear power stations galore), etc. America will bomb, and loose a lot of its power internationally. China will also, but will soon be able to exploit the new market in the emerging nations and get back on track.


Just my opinion what is going to happen, but could be wrong. Still, its an interesting read :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4827248.stm

So, how is it that the head of state can just come out and say, "So... we're reaching our maximums allowed... so I'll just increase them!"

Je ne comprend pas.
"Hey, I got a 'F'. That sucks. What can I do? I know! I'll just increase the grading sheet to 'H'. That way my 'F' will now look like a 'C'."

I'm afraid you are witnessing the downfall of america from its superpower position. If the countries call in their loans now, american society collapses. Then china is in a sticky situation, as a huge amount of their exports go to america, and with the death of the dollar, they lose their market. There will be a few more repercussions around the world, not least that the loaning nations get a huge boost. I assume the debits will begin to be called in when oil starts to run out, and the nations need the money to invest in alternate energy and to get some of the last oil. At the same time america will call in their loans from third world countries, which will stop them from having the money to invest in developing the oil in their countries. Other coutries will get their hands on them, which will time them over until they have got other energy sources. We will come out of it with a strong europe, russia (all the oil they have got), japan (nuclear power stations galore), etc. America will bomb, and loose a lot of its power internationally. China will also, but will soon be able to exploit the new market in the emerging nations and get back on track.


Just my opinion what is going to happen, but could be wrong. Still, its an interesting read :D
I agree, but I'm not so upset about the downfall of the US. I think being a super-power is a bad idea in today's world. But don't sell China short -- they are already working on other markets and are increasing their exports and manufacturing ownership in Europe. They're still in love with super-power-hood and intend to be the next one, and I think they've got a damned good shot at it. I think that's going to be a bad thing for lots of people.

As for when it's all going to come down -- it may hinge on the oil, or on whether we decide to start another elective war, this time against Iran which has nukes -- and oil. I really don't see the Europeans and Chinese staying laissez-faire for that.

"Hey, I got a 'F'. That sucks. What can I do? I know! I'll just increase the grading sheet to 'H'. That way my 'F' will now look like a 'C'."
Jon Stewart, is that you?

Jon Stewart, is that you?
Mr. Stewart to you.