NationStates Jolt Archive

I saw a bunch of people trying to hate on rap music, but no one really wanted to ID the real garbage of thw music scene: Country

Can you really call that collection of twangy heyseeds "artists?"

I saw a bunch of people trying to hate on rap music, but no one really wanted to ID the real garbage of thw music scene: Country

Can you really call that collection of twangy heyseeds "artists?"

Hell yes. Country's been around far longer than rap. And there are far more country fans than rap fans.

No reason to hate on it if you don't like it.

Unfortunately, country must be admitted to the list of what is music, though I think it is better termed 'muzak' and is a disgrace to better music. Still, it's more musical than rap, at least, though just as reactionary and crass.

You damn yankeey citay-slickerz, you go awey now, stop insultin my musiic, or ill done shoot you wit my boomstick

Hell yes. Country's the best music out there.

Country is music just as much as anything else out there that holds the title. There are a lot of people who hate Rock, or Pop, or Metal, or Classical, or any other form of music for that matter, but it is still music.

Country is kitsch with strings.

Country is kitsch with strings.

Too true.

It's just bad pop, but it is still music.

What Argesia said.

It's just bad pop, but it is still music.
Agreed.

I dislike "pop" music in all forms ... even country renditions of it

There just seem to be less non pop country songs nowadays then other genras

Country is kitsch with strings.

Sigged!

I'm not a country fan (but I do have a thing for cowgirls), but there are far worse things out there, like pop and rap.

if country doesn't qualify as music, what does?

I'm not a country fan (but I do have a thing for cowgirls), but there are far worse things out there, like pop and rap.

if country doesn't qualify as music, what does?

Personally I prefer the place where it all came from: the blues

Little Walter is GOD!!

Country's been around far longer than rap.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. It could be argued that the ancient Greek poetry recitals to Pythagorian rythms was the first "rap". Country's only been around since the advent of the "cowboy songs" in the 1860s-1880s, but even before then, black slaves were "rapping" spirituals as early as the 1820s.

You damn yankeey citay-slickerz, you go awey now, stop insultin my musiic, or ill done shoot you wit my boomstick

Why didn't we just let them separate in to the CSA? We just had to keep them, didn't we.

Hell yes. Country's been around far longer than rap. And there are far more country fans than rap fans.

No reason to hate on it if you don't like it.

People hate on rap all the time, popularity =/= musicallity.

I'm not a country fan (but I do have a thing for cowgirls), but there are far worse things out there, like pop and rap.

if country doesn't qualify as music, what does?

Powerviolence! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerviolence)

Some country is good, some country blows, just like every other genre of music.

Stick some Hank Williams up yer ****! You fucker!!!

The reason rap is so questionable is that there's sometimes no music, just a gangster talking to a drum set. The same is not true with country. The man may be singing about beer for his horses, but at least he's singing.

didnt we used to have some kind of rule against copycat threads?

The reason rap is so questionable is that there's sometimes no music, just a gangster talking to a drum set. The same is not true with country. The man may be singing about beer for his horses, but at least he's singing.

So I guess you don't think "a capella" is a valid form of expression ...

I don't understand why country wouldn't be music, now I can understand why it wouldn't be "good music" but really, just because you don't like it doesn't make it non-music.

btw You Don't Even Call Me By My Name (http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiDARLDARL.html) best country song ever!

Well, I was drunk the day my Mom got outta prison.
And I went to pick her up in the rain.
But, before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got runned over by a damned old train.

The reason rap is so questionable is that there's sometimes no music, just a gangster talking to a drum set. The same is not true with country. The man may be singing about beer for his horses, but at least he's singing.

Lack of singing =/= lack of music.

Alot of hip-hop tends to be minimalist, musically, but there's always more then just a drum beat.

Rapping well is a skill just like singing, although a different one.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. It could be argued that the ancient Greek poetry recitals to Pythagorian rythms was the first "rap". Country's only been around since the advent of the "cowboy songs" in the 1860s-1880s, but even before then, black slaves were "rapping" spirituals as early as the 1820s.
No messin' with the music teacher...

"What kind of music do you usually have here?"
"Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western."

And if you don't believe that country is great, I got three words for you:

Johnny Fucking Cash!

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. It could be argued that the ancient Greek poetry recitals to Pythagorian rythms was the first "rap". Country's only been around since the advent of the "cowboy songs" in the 1860s-1880s, but even before then, black slaves were "rapping" spirituals as early as the 1820s.
Blacks didn't rap in the 20's. Greek poetry recitals were not rap either.
Blacks in the 20's were actually singing spirituals, not rapping them. Rap has only been around since the early 80's.
Nor is acapella rap. My brother does rap music. He has friends who are entertainers who are rappers (or hip hop artists as they call themselves now). There is a big difference between poetry recitals and rap. And there is a big difference between the spirituals of the 20's and todays rap music.

Rap is a more modern thing that is the baby of the music family.

The thing is that I grew up around both.
My brother listened to all that rap guttercrap. My parents listened to country.
Country is much more preferable.
My 11 year old neice even preferred country over rap.
Country just sounds better. I think its more the message.
Rap is all about how he raped this bitch and then that bitch and how he's gonna kill cops for the fun of it, and how the purpose of relationships is that women are the property of men, and how cool it is to go around killing and mugging people just for the fun of it.
Country is about love of country (God Bless the USA by Lee Greenwood), doing the right thing (Point Of Light by Randy Travis), and relationships of which there are myriad examples only some of which are about breakups. A lot of the relationship ones are about faithfulness to one girlfriend (Islands in the Stream, I'll Be True, etc.), or breakups (My Baby's Gotten Good at Goodbye), and alot of mushy love stuff (Forever and Ever by Randy Travis, The Closer You Get "The Further I Fall" by Alabama), a lot of country songs are about relationships in fact from "Timber I'm Falling In Love" to "I'm Gonna Get You" to "My Arms Stay Open All Night". Country generally has a positive message and puts things in a positive light whereas rap is all about negative and promoting hate and violence. Country is about reconciliation, for example see George Jones' "It's what I didn't do".
All those are great country songs and none of them dwells on negativity.

I personaly dislike both of the aforementioned types of music.
This is just my opinion and in a debate has no ground what so ever, but then again this post is just an opinion thread and thusly has no true ground for debate.

Country is older than Rap though.

The Nashville sound (that is the main stream acts pushed by the biggest record companies in Nashville) is godawful stuff, all over produced sugary kitsche stuffed with cliches and jingoism, like Toby Keith. But theres a hell of a lot of good country music around still. Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard, Hank Williams, Hank Williams III, Steve Earle and the so called alt country bands like Lambchop, Uncle Tupelo, Those Poor Bastards, Bonny Prince Billy just too name a few are all superb. Most of them will kick you arse too, dead or not.

country music is shit, bland and for hillbillies

I know it doesn't sound that good sometimes but, those riffs played on guitar can be extremely complex and difficult, not to mension the diffucult stuff played on banjo. So it takes a real musician to right and play a country song.

country music is shit, bland and for hillbillies

Pop music is shit, bland and for emo kids and morons who follow every trend.

Rap music is shit, bland and for wannabee gang bangers who think going deaf at 15 is cool.

Punk music is shit, bland and for nonconformists who's idea of being successful is finding enough change in their couch to get McDonald's.

Emo music is shit, bland and for kids who would do the world a favor if they just actually killed themselves instead of simply talking about it all the time.

Should we go on? If you're going to diss country music, at least take some time and be original about it.

Blacks didn't rap in the 20's. Greek poetry recitals were not rap either.

Clearly you either don't have a clear definition of "rap" in terms of music or you are not aware or have never heard how spirituals were done in the 1820s.

Modern rap has been around since the 1970s, yes, but there is more than one kind of "rap". Saying that only the kind of rap that was popular in the 1980s defines "rap" is leaving out the jazzier styles of the 1990s, scat from the 1930s, 1970s funk, and modern hip-hop, house, beat, goa, and trance.

I'm guessing your experience is limited and that's ok, but don't claim to know something unless you've studied it in all of its forms, origins, and can speak with something of a more scholarly approach to the subject beyond "because I don't think so".

To "rap" about something means to discuss something or to tell a story. The first *recorded* use of the term (I say recorded because there are no recordings of the slave spirituals as they were done in the 1820s, but there are plenty of records by scholarly musicians of the day who describe the sound) came from Ella Fitzgerald who, before breaking into a 6 minute long scat session, said, "Lemme give you my rap for a few."

Yes, poetry recitals are rap. The rythm, cadence, and meter necessary to perform poetry properly proves without a doubt that, by definition, poetry is music. If there's no meter or cadence or rythm to the poem, it's called "prose".

Here's a good way to settle the rap argument once and for all.

Here are some lyrics:

Fallin’ back on that ass with a hellified gangsta’ lean
Gettin’ funky on the mic like a’ old batch o’ collard greens
It’s the capital s, oh yes, the fresh n double o p
D o double g y d o double g ya’ see
Showin’ much flex when it’s time to wreck a mic
Pimpin’ ho’s and clockin’ a grip like my name was dolomite
Yeah, and it don’t quit
I think they in a mood for some mothafuckin’ g shit

Speak it aloud as if you were just talking to someone on the phone or somethin' like that. No rythm to it. Nothing to it. Just speaking.

Doesn't sound much like rap, does it? Nope. Why? Because that's not what rappers do. They don't just "talk to music" any more than country artists just "whine to music".

Country is music. Rap is music. They both require vocal rythm, cadence, meter, and even tonality. You may not like it, but it's still music.

Hell yes. Country's been around far longer than rap. And there are far more country fans than rap fans.

No reason to hate on it if you don't like it.

Most popular country music is based on the "what sounds good" axiom:

1

4

5

It's still music. ou can bang two rocks against each other and it's still music.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. It could be argued that the ancient Greek poetry recitals to Pythagorian rythms was the first "rap". Country's only been around since the advent of the "cowboy songs" in the 1860s-1880s, but even before then, black slaves were "rapping" spirituals as early as the 1820s.

Aristotle rapping, huh? Sounds thrilling.

His first CD:
"Τα μαθηματικά είναι δύναμη, σκύλα!" (Roughly translated into, "Mathematics is power, bitch!")

Songs include:

Look at that goddess!

Philosophy

and other such crappy titles like that.

"What kind of music do you usually have here?"
"Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western."

And if you don't believe that country is great, I got three words for you:

Johnny Fucking Cash!Amen!I set my Tack on''The Man In Black''.:cool:

Stick some Hank Williams up yer ****! You fucker!!!Hank Williams is a Country music God, bow down before him;)

Clearly you either don't have a clear definition of "rap" in terms of music or you are not aware or have never heard how spirituals were done in the 1820s.

Modern rap has been around since the 1970s, yes, but there is more than one kind of "rap". Saying that only the kind of rap that was popular in the 1980s defines "rap" is leaving out the jazzier styles of the 1990s, scat from the 1930s, 1970s funk, and modern hip-hop, house, beat, goa, and trance.

I'm guessing your experience is limited and that's ok, but don't claim to know something unless you've studied it in all of its forms, origins, and can speak with something of a more scholarly approach to the subject beyond "because I don't think so".

To "rap" about something means to discuss something or to tell a story. The first *recorded* use of the term (I say recorded because there are no recordings of the slave spirituals as they were done in the 1820s, but there are plenty of records by scholarly musicians of the day who describe the sound) came from Ella Fitzgerald who, before breaking into a 6 minute long scat session, said, "Lemme give you my rap for a few."

Yes, poetry recitals are rap. The rythm, cadence, and meter necessary to perform poetry properly proves without a doubt that, by definition, poetry is music. If there's no meter or cadence or rythm to the poem, it's called "prose".
Scholarly? This forum is not just for scholarly discussion buddy.
Second off, the problem with your definition is it can also be applied to country music, rock and roll, blues, techno and everything else out there. In fact, according to your so called scholarly definition, this conversation is rap.
I'm sure how most people would notice the idiocy of that.

There is quite a bit of country & western music out there now that I like. I dont have any country radio stations tuned in on any of my car or home radios, but when I come accross it, I often listen and enjoy.
I have also enjoyed several songs on Country Music Channel.
Its music to me and I'm comfortable with the lifestyles often associated with it.

I dont care for rap at all. Call it music if you want. Yeah-its a form of expression. Maybe besides not liking the noises it produces, I dont like the lifestyle associated with it either.

Second off, the problem with your definition is it can also be applied to country music, rock and roll, blues, techno and everything else out there. In fact, according to your so called scholarly definition, this conversation is rap.
I'm sure how most people would notice the idiocy of that.

You do realise that you're basically trying to argue with a physicist that F does not equal MA .... don't you? It's not *my* definition and no it cannot be applied to other genres any more than Bach can be called a "classical period composer".

You do realise that you're basically trying to argue with a physicist that F does not equal MA .... don't you? It's not *my* definition and no it cannot be applied to other genres any more than Bach can be called a "classical period composer".
http://www.rapdict.org/Rap rap is rhythmic talklike singing of poetry

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:rap

this page says that rap is form of African American music from the 1980s and 1990s in which rhyming lyrics are chanted to a musical accompaniment

Rapping is one of the elements of hip hop and the distinguishing feature of hip hop music; it is a form of rhyming lyrics spoken rhythmically over musical instruments, with a musical backdrop of sampling, scratching and mixing by DJs. Originally, rapping was called MCing and accompanied DJing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rap

I saw a bunch of people trying to hate on rap music, but no one really wanted to ID the real garbage of thw music scene: Country

Can you really call that collection of twangy heyseeds "artists?"

In the words of Kris Kristofferson, "if you don't like Hank Williams, honey, you can kiss my ass".

Personally I prefer the place where it all came from: the blues

Don't forget that country has a lot other roots. American Southern folk music is at least as important, if not more so (and that in turn comes from traditional Scottish, English and Irish music). Cajun is another important influance.

"What kind of music do you usually have here?"
"Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western."

Great one! And when that gets quoted, too many people forget that the Blues Brothers went on to play both kinds.

And if you don't believe that country is great, I got three words for you:

Johnny Fucking Cash!

Amen and double fucking amen!

And for all of you who are putting down what you think is country music, from the same song above: "You're the only one that you are screwin', when you put down what you don't understand".

I have on tape somewhere... a Canadian comedy group from the late 80s or early 90s doing what they called a fusion of
"country + rap music, or as we like to call it... crap music".

The song was about some nympho girl who always wanted "more cocks" and planted wangers in the field... needless to say, I suspect that these musicians were taking advantage of Canada's liberal drug laws... ;)

I only listen to songs about my dog running off with my pick up truck and spending the night by the train tracks, not. I hate new country. I mean just try to listen to Shania Twain without the video, it’s not that good! I do like Johnny Cash though and other older country music songs that were more folk songs, like “The Devil went down to Georgia” and songs like that. Glitter-Glam, New Country is very hard to take.

A girlfriend once dragged me into a country bar. I’m still in counseling… :)

I only listen to songs about my dog running off with my pick up truck and spending the night by the train tracks, not. I hate new country. I mean just try to listen to Shania Twain without the video, it’s not that good! I do like Johnny Cash though and other older country music songs that were more folk songs, like “The Devil went down to Georgia” and songs like that. Glitter-Glam, New Country is very hard to take.

A girlfriend once dragged me into a country bar. I’m still in counseling… :)

Agreed.

Where's the "No, but its good for killing martians" option?

Pop music is shit, bland and for emo kids and morons who follow every trend.

Rap music is shit, bland and for wannabee gang bangers who think going deaf at 15 is cool.

Punk music is shit, bland and for nonconformists who's idea of being successful is finding enough change in their couch to get McDonald's.

Emo music is shit, bland and for kids who would do the world a favor if they just actually killed themselves instead of simply talking about it all the time.

Should we go on? If you're going to diss country music, at least take some time and be original about it.
Wait, so is it Pop music or Emo music thats for Emo kids?

I only listen to songs about my dog running off with my pick up truck and spending the night by the train tracks, not. I hate new country. I mean just try to listen to Shania Twain without the video, it’s not that good! I do like Johnny Cash though and other older country music songs that were more folk songs, like “The Devil went down to Georgia” and songs like that. Glitter-Glam, New Country is very hard to take.

A girlfriend once dragged me into a country bar. I’m still in counseling… :)
Same here. I wasted 15 bucks on Shania Twain album just to find out she sucks big time. I tossed the cd and never listened to Shania Twain again. She's just horrible.
I prefer the older musicians, Cash, Kenny Rogers, Alabama, Oak Ridge Boys, Reba McEntire, etc.

Is it technically music? Yes.
Is it forumulaic crap? Yes.
Is almost all popular mainstream music formulaic crap? Yes.
Is it any worse than gangster rap, mainstream hip-hop, or bubblegum pop? No.

Is it forumulaic crap? Yes.

Only if you're listening to the crap stuff. Go dig up some Hank Williams (Sr, Jr, or III), Johnny Cash, Kris Kristofferson, Willie Nelson, or or some other good non-formula stuff.

And if you don't like any of that, try Steve Earle. ("John Walker's Blues" (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/earle-steve/john-walkers-blues-2206.html) anybody? Yes, that's John Walker Lindh, the "US Talib".)

I said it before, nicely, and I'll say it again, less nicely, don't talk shit about country music if you don't shit about it.

I tossed the cd and never listened to Shania Twain again. She's just horrible.

Good man. It's that kinda crap that gives people the idea that all country is crap.

Think, people. If we judged all rock on the grounds of 1950s formula bubblegum pop/rock, it'd all look bad. It's the same for any genre. Engage your brains before posting, and you won't be such dumbasses.

Good man. It's that kinda crap that gives people the idea that all country is crap.

Think, people. If we judged all rock on the grounds of 1950s formula bubblegum pop/rock, it'd all look bad. It's the same for any genre. Engage your brains before posting, and you won't be such dumbasses.
The sad thing about it is that she is being marketed as country and when you listen to her, you that what ever she is, she sure as hell ain't country. Not real country.

And only a couple of the so called contemporary artists even sound like country. They sound more like pop artists trying to pretend to be country. But they ain't country.
As Alabama sung "if you're gonna play in Texas, you gotta have a fiddle in the band, that lead guitar is hot but not for a Louisiana man..."
Country is genre that has a unique sound. Just calling something country doesn't make it country. It has to have the sound and the feel to it.
The Judds, they were country.
Elvis, he did both country and rock and roll.
Not to mention the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band
Crystal Gayle
Roseanne Cash (was she John Cash's wife or daughter?)
Pam Tillis and Mel Tillis (the former being the daughter of the latter)
both Hank Williamses
Garth Brooks was the last of the real country artists. Just about everything that came after sucked. It was like the country people in Nashville just decided to follow the trends in the rock and pop markets and turn out only cookie cutter shit.

Replies in red

Elvis, he did both country and rock and roll.

Rockabilly.

Not to mention the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

Another band that gets swept under the carpet. A highly recommended group, especially their early stuff, for those putting down country.

Roseanne Cash (was she John Cash's wife or daughter?)

Daughter by his first wife. She

both Hank Williamses

All three! Hank III kicks ass. And is an excellent name to throw in the faces of anyone who ever says country is cookie cutter, boring ass pop. Throw a recording of Assjack (hardcore punk/death metal) or Superjoint Ritual (hardcore metal) in with his country stuff and see how that goes down. :D

Is it technically music? Yes.
Is it forumulaic crap? Yes.
Is almost all popular mainstream music formulaic crap? Yes.
Is it any worse than gangster rap, mainstream hip-hop, or bubblegum pop? No.

Exactly my thoughts.

Exactly my thoughts.

:::BONK ON THE HEAD!:::

Go get some good country and quit listening to the crap stuff.

:::BONK ON THE HEAD!:::

Go get some good country and quit listening to the crap stuff.

Did you defended rap just as vehemently in the rap thread?

The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. I need not say any more to defend Country as a decent genre.

Just as with every other genre, only the shit gets airtime. Toby Keith and his ilk deserve a very dark fate for what they've done.

The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. I need not say any more to defend Country as a decent genre.

Just as with every other genre, only the shit gets airtime. Toby Keith and his ilk deserve a very dark fate for what they've done.

The Highwaymen. Great stuff.

Hell yes. Country's the best music out there.

Quoted for great truth! ^_^

BTW, Daistallia 2104? Be it noted that I would rate 1950s rock as being head and shoulders above any of the "rock" that has been produced since the 1980s. :p

Just so you know. ^_~

As for rap, there are people silly enough to listen to that? :confused: :confused::confused:

Ok, here's my bash on country:
Country music only proves that people shouldn't try to sing while they are recovering from a hangover.

Furthermore, why is it parents feel obliged to sue heavy metal musicians when their teenagers commit suicide related to listening to their music? While I don't have the statistics to prove it, I am quite certain that country music has been responsible for multiples more suicides than heavy metal ever was. You never hear of people suing country musicians for people commiting suicide though.

Ok, here's my bash on country:
Country music only proves that people shouldn't try to sing while they are recovering from a hangover.

Fuck that, when is there a better time?

Did you defended rap just as vehemently in the rap thread?

No, because I didn't see the that one. I have done so in the past. (And note that by crap stuff I meant crap country.)

Furthermore, why is it parents feel obliged to sue heavy metal musicians when their teenagers commit suicide related to listening to their music? While I don't have the statistics to prove it, I am quite certain that country music has been responsible for multiples more suicides than heavy metal ever was. You never hear of people suing country musicians for people commiting suicide though.

Heh, well, that is a good point.:D My beef with country (and other forms of popular music) has more to do with other factors, really.

Classical music's the only good music. And Jazz. Everything else can wither away.

Obviously my oppinion.

Country music is music, whether I like it or not.

Classical music's the only good music. And Jazz. Everything else can wither away.

Indeed. I prefer music that actually demands some talent and skill to play, stuff with more than three chords in it. I can't even begin to fathom why anyone would prefer a simple 3 minute pop song over a 30 minute symphony, myself.

The newer varieties of what claims to be country (ie: Toby Keith) should instead be labelled as 'White Trash'.

There once was a time when Country was a good and respectable genre, but it seems the Neocons have soiled Country music the same way they did the United States.

I don't call musicians "artists". I find that term seems to go right to entertainers' heads. An artist is a painter or sculptor.