NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?How would self-defense have helped against a gun you couldn't see and weren't even sure was there?

If you don't mind the possibility of killing/permanently injuring the hobo, then get a mean-ass looking revolver. If not, pepper spray always works.

With a gun, you have the risk of overreacting. That leads to a really nasty lawsuit. Pick some less lethal / nonlethal weapon instead.

And remember, the people who are muggers are also of the stupider lot.

How would self-defense have helped against a gun you couldn't see and weren't even sure was there?

That's the point. He was wearing a large coat. He could've been hiding a gun and I wouldn't been able to see it until it was too late. If I had some form of self defense I could at least show him that he better not mess with me. I may go look for a 9mm.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

Teach yourself unarmed combat, a.k.a. street fighting. It's not as flashy as refined martial arts, but it's very handy if you know what you're doing. Now, if a mugger has a gun, you'll have to be really good at fast talking bullshit, whether you're armed or not.

Pepper spray's a good idea, but if your city doesn't have a law against it, I suggest getting a weapon license that allows you to carry one in full view... A crossbow, for instance. Even a small calibre gun in an external holster will deter many muggers.

If you don't mind the possibility of killing/permanently injuring the hobo, then get a mean-ass looking revolver. If not, pepper spray always works.

Eh I have no qualms with shooting someone that is endarging my life.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?
That's a rather paranoid reaction to a beggar. Still, get a gun. It will probably save you from a real criminal someday. Just make sure you know how to use it properly.

I would suggest a self defense class, I took one when I was in the 7th grade and nobody has messed with me since, it gives you that "confident I'll kick the crap out of you if you even try to approach me" vibe. Also, pepper spray is good, but a taser is better ;)

I find the derringer Model 1 using 3 in .410 shells (I prefer slugs) to be very self assuring, however, for firing from inside a vehicle through the door, I find it's .45 colt (Long) round to be superior as it penatrates the door and the perp every time.

Aside: Make sure your state has "stand your ground laws though!"

Neither would I, but some people have like, conciences and stuff.

In any case, it always helps to be accompanied by a buddy, and in case you do get mugged, to either know how to se your hands, head, or a 6-pound metal device on your belt.

That's what we call "paranoia".

Anyways, why don't you also buy this car (http://detroit-auto-show.autoblog.com/2005/01/07/detroit-auto-show-ford-syn-us-concept/)?

For the purposes of Self defense, it depends on how much damage you really want to do.

If you don't know how to handle a gun (or which areas to fire at) then you run the risk of killing the attacker and if you shoot him too many times (like unloading the magazine into the perp) you run the risk of being charged with unnecessary force and murder. So, if you plan on learning where to shoot and what not, I'd go for a 9 mm Glock.

Although, if your not interested in learning all of the techniques then I'd use pepper spray.

That's the point. He was wearing a large coat. He could've been hiding a gun and I wouldn't been able to see it until it was too late. If I had some form of self defense I could at least show him that he better not mess with me. I may go look for a 9mm.So then what you're saying is that you plan to wave your gun around threatening strangers with it?

"Every time"?

Just how much experience do you have shooting people through car doors?!

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

A beggar comes up to you asking for money and your first reaction is to consider getting a gun?


.... sorry, words fail me.

Buy Shuriken or other ninja-related item.

Becuase do you know anyone who would mess with a ninja? No, neither do I.

A beggar comes up to you asking for money and your first reaction is to consider getting a gun?


.... sorry, words fail me.

He was wearing a coat that covered most of his body, I couldn't see if he was hiding a gun. What the hell do you want me to say? I'm sorry if I'm not some bleeding heart liberal that is willing to let the possibility of a beggar shooting me or injurying me because he wants my money. I'm sorry but I don't play that way, it's my money, so you better stay the hell away from me.

:mp5:

A beggar comes up to you asking for money and your first reaction is to consider getting a gun?


.... sorry, words fail me.

I agree, it's a bit of an over-reaction to getting asked for change.

Glad I'm not homeless. :(

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

You should expose yourself to heavy doses of radiation in the hopes of mutating some special super-power.

"Every time"?

Just how much experience do you have shooting people through car doors?!

Many hundreds of the silicone filled ones. Unfortunately they never let me keep the weapons long enough to notch them. ;)

He was wearing a coat that covered most of his body
....
It's bloody March.

I couldn't see if he was hiding a gun. What the hell do you want me to say?
So everyone has to run around naked, spreading their arse cheeks for you to feel safe?

I'm sorry if I'm not some bleeding heart liberal...
So this is more about your personal self-image than about danger?

I suggest you go to a psychiatrist to get your paranoia treated.

A beggar comes up to you asking for money and your first reaction is to consider getting a gun?


.... sorry, words fail me.

Anyone at an ATM who is dumb enough to assume it is a beggar being bold enough to approach you, will eventually have a much bigger problem than word failure.

He was wearing a coat that covered most of his body, I couldn't see if he was hiding a gun. What the hell do you want me to say? I'm sorry if I'm not some bleeding heart liberal that is willing to let the possibility of a beggar shooting me or injurying me because he wants my money. I'm sorry but I don't play that way, it's my money, so you better stay the hell away from me.

:mp5:

He's homeless. It's cold out there. Do you expect them to wear tank tops all year round?
Yes, call me stupid, but the thought that he may have a gun would never have crossed my mind. Then again, may have to do with "cultural differences"....

Anyone at an ATM who is dumb enough to assume it is a beggar being bold enough to approach you, will eventually have a much bigger problem than word failure.

Like what? A mumbled "thank you, love" after I give him some change? Happened to me quite often, but I never really saw that as a problem...

Learn to spit poison into people's eyes.

He's homeless. It's cold out there. Do you expect them to wear tank tops all year round?
Yes, call me stupid, but the thought that he may have a gun would never have crossed my mind. Then again, may have to do with "cultural differences"....

It was warm....NO one wore a coat today, because it was warm.

Like what? A mumbled "thank you, love" after I give him some change? Happened to me quite often, but I never really saw that as a problem...
Don't you know that beggars are living failures, automatically suspect and guilty of having bad genes by virtue of not having made it in life?

You can't trust those types! :eek:

It was warm....NO one wore a coat today, because it was warm.
Okay, but it was Winter not too long ago, right? So where is he supposed to keep his coat? At his house?

Don't you know that beggars are living failures, automatically suspect and guilty of having bad genes by virtue of not having made it in life?

You can't trust those types! :eek:

He may or may not have actually been a beggar. Even in my town of just 10,000+ people, a supposed "beggar" was almost arrested at the Wal-Mart parking lot for trying to scam people. He wasn't even poor.

Learn to spit poison into people's eyes.

You would be amazed how useful that skill is.

Okay, but it was Winter not too long ago, right? So where is he supposed to keep his coat? At his house?

Well he could've left it more open so that I could see that he wasn't packing. It covered his body, I couldn't tell what he had on.

How was he to know the man was actually a beggar? A trenchcoat on a warm day is pretty suspicious.

exactly!

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

I would choose the latter.

How was he to know the man was actually a beggar? A trenchcoat on a warm day is pretty suspicious.
He might have been naked underneith...

He might have been naked underneith...

Yeah, I edited my post, because I wrote it without thinking it through.

He's homeless. It's cold out there. Do you expect them to wear tank tops all year round?
Yes, call me stupid, but the thought that he may have a gun would never have crossed my mind. Then again, may have to do with "cultural differences"....

Cabra, in the US there really are very few homeless people until you visit the urine soaked streets of our grossly over populated centers of better sardine living. IE: LA, NYC, SF so on and so forth. Believe it or not, we have things like Welfare, HUD, and social programs on top of social programs just like the socialist utopias of europe. What we have many more of are lazy good for nothing robbers, thieves, pickpockets and gang bangers that feel stealing is more glamorous than earning a living.

A beggar comes up to you asking for money and your first reaction is to consider getting a gun?

.... sorry, words fail me.
Words don't fail me! I called it paranoia, so should you!

"Every time"?

Just how much experience do you have shooting people through car doors?!
Lol, yes, good question, to Liverbreath! (Who I think is a journalist by profession)

You people call it Paranoida, I call it being better safe than sorry. I'll be going to a gun store tomorrow to look for classes, and handguns. I'll also be looking into the Concealed Carry License requirement for my state.

He might have been naked underneith...
This is getting ridiculous.

Cabra, in the US there really are very few homeless people until you visit the urine soaked streets of our grossly over populated centers of better sardine living. IE: LA, NYC, SF so on and so forth. Believe it or not, we have things like Welfare, HUD, and social programs on top of social programs just like the socialist utopias of europe.
The US Welfare programme is notoriously stingy, compared to Europe, yet nowere here is either socialist or a utopia.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?
Do yourself a favour and learn a martial art or two. For now though a taser-gun should do just fine.

Cabra, in the US there really are very few homeless people until you visit the urine soaked streets of our grossly over populated centers of better sardine living. IE: LA, NYC, SF so on and so forth. Believe it or not, we have things like Welfare, HUD, and social programs on top of social programs just like the socialist utopias of europe. What we have many more of are lazy good for nothing robbers, thieves, pickpockets and gang bangers that feel stealing is more glamorous than earning a living.

Well, you don't see many homeless people in Enniscorthy or Port Laoise either, but here in Dublin there are a few.
And I didn't mean to criticise US social welfare, I really don't know enough about it to say much on that topic.
But I do know that homeless people and beggars don't normally run around with guns under their coats (at least around here). If that's different in the States, I don't know. But to me, his reaction does seem extremely paranoid.

Lol, yes, good question, to Liverbreath! (Who I think is a journalist by profession)

Actually I've had three professions in my lifetime. Journalism was my first and Criminal Justice was my last.

The areas around my local tesco and near the train station are overrun with beggars. Some are genuine seming, and one looks just like Daniel day Lewis. Maybe hes researching a role. But the ones who approach people asking for money are the ones I hate. Theyre total degenerates. Infact I just watched 28 days later and they remind me of the infected. Some of them move as though theyre going to put their arm around my shoulders. I no longer tell them I have no change, I just say dont touch me and ignore them. If they touch me they get a smack in the face. But this is during the day with people around. If I lived in a country where guns are common and it was dark and I was alone then I would certainly want to be armed.

Well, you don't see many homeless people in Enniscorthy or Port Laoise either, but here in Dublin there are a few.
And I didn't mean to criticise US social welfare, I really don't know enough about it to say much on that topic.
But I do know that homeless people and beggars don't normally run around with guns under their coats (at least around here). If that's different in the States, I don't know. But to me, his reaction does seem extremely paranoid.

Nor do they here, however, our beggars and street people are among the most streetwise individuals one could hope to find and the first rule on the street is never approach someone standing at an ATM. It's a great way to get shot. In many places you will even see a sign or a line painted to wait behind, several feet from the ATM itself.
It is paranoid without a doubt. We call it strategic paranoia. It is a good thing and helps to seperate those that live long and prosperous lives, from those that die prematurely from not recognizing it.

Nor do they here, however, our beggars and street people are among the most streetwise individuals one could hope to find and the first rule on the street is never approach someone standing at an ATM. It's a great way to get shot. In many places you will even see a sign or a line painted to wait behind, several feet from the ATM itself.
It is paranoid without a doubt. We call it strategic paranoia. It is a good thing and helps to seperate those that live long and prosperous lives, from those that die prematurely from not recognizing it.

Ah. So it is cultural difference, then.

:D :D :D :D

Man, if I acted that way around London I'd either have a heart attack or become a serial killer. Every day.

Yeah, made a lucky escape there I think

Tomorrow I'm going to pull a gun on the next little punk who hassles me outside Victoria station. HE COULD HAVE HAD A GUN.

This thread reminds me of what I hated about living in America

I had a similar thing happen last night. We were leaving the bars last night after St Paddy's day drinking. There was a fellow we passed on the way to where our cars were parked. He began following us and after a short while he had yelled something at us and had his hand held in his jacket. We just walked on as if nothing was happening, I was intentionally walking backwards while talking to the others in a group to keep a eye on him. We did make it to the parking garage and left. I do have my CCW permit but had to leave my carrying peice in the car due to being in the bars. I would have felt alittle better if I could carry that not as a deterant or a threat but more of if this guy does turn malicious I have something to back me up.

Ah. So it is cultural difference, then.

To a very large degree I would say yes. I believe it to be a combination of living in a highly competitive enviorment, with an extremely long period of social policies that completely failed to hold perpetrators accountable for their actions...or allow people to protect themselves. Now that has changed and fortunately so is the trend toward violence.

There's nothing wrong with self-defense, including lethal force if neccesary, but the best weapon is the one between your ears. When approaching an ATM, look around to see who is around. If you see someone who triggers your "spider-sense", go to another ATM.

Also, IMO, anybody begging for money at an ATM is asking for trouble. There are enough violent attacks at those places that Stone Bridges has legitimate reason for concern. Especially if there's nobody else around.

To a very large degree I would say yes. I believe it to be a combination of living in a highly competitive enviorment, with an extremely long period of social policies that completely failed to hold perpetrators accountable for their actions...or allow people to protect themselves. Now that has changed and fortunately so is the trend toward violence.

Exactly.

Stoney, one thing I forgot to mention. Even if you had a CCW permit and a pistol, do not take this as a free ticket to waste every potential threat. To do so would be very irresponcible, if you had a pistol today you still should have done what you did today. Take the card and get the hell out of there. Remember, your actions are not only scrutinized by the police, but all the anti-gun people like those in this forum who will post it everywhere screaming to repeal it the second someone screws up.

When you get thrown in jail for shooting some random homeless guy, I will laugh.

Don't get a gun. Get something less lethal, like pepperspray or a taser. Or carry a crossbow. They are not as lethal as guns, but are very visible and say "don't fuck with me."

Exactly.

Stoney, one thing I forgot to mention. Even if you had a CCW permit and a pistol, do not take this as a free ticket to waste every potential threat. To do so would be very irresponcible, if you had a pistol today you still should have done what you did today. Take the card and get the hell out of there. Remember, your actions are not only scrutinized by the police, but all the anti-gun people like those in this forum who will post it everywhere screaming to repeal it the second someone screws up.

Don't worry, I will only shoot when theres a very real threat to my life and to my safety. IE he has a gun and he is pulling it out, or he is actually robbing me. Other than that I'll just finish up my business and leave.

When you get thrown in jail for shooting some random homeless guy, I will laugh.

Don't get a gun. Get something less lethal, like pepperspray or a taser. Or carry a crossbow. They are not as lethal as guns, but are very visible and say "don't fuck with me."

Jeez I'm not that careless with a gun people. I've been handling a .22 Semi Automatic rifle for 10 years, and a 12 gauge shotgun for 8.

Maybe you should create an ATM posse, and you can all go to get your money in one big happy group. With the strength of numbers, no dirty hobos that may or may not have guns will bother you again!

Jeez I'm not that careless with a gun people. I've been handling a .22 Semi Automatic rifle for 10 years, and a 12 gauge shotgun for 8.

C'mon stone. The man has a point, carrying a crossbow would be pretty freakin cool! :cool:

C'mon stone. The man has a point, carrying a crossbow would be pretty freakin cool! :cool:

LOL yea, but you do lose the suprise attack ability. Beside, they'll be idiots that'll want to challenge my cross bow, lol.

Maybe you should create an ATM posse, and you can all go to get your money in one big happy group. With the strength of numbers, no dirty hobos that may or may not have guns will bother you again!

I'm anti-social and like being alone.

C'mon stone. The man has a point, carrying a crossbow would be pretty freakin cool! :cool:

haha I can see the APB right now. All units apprehend unknown individual armed with crossbow approaching the First National Bank ATM.

I'm anti-social and like being alone.

But... but... happy group! You could have after-ATM muffin parties! Do you reject the muffins??

But... but... happy group! You could have after-ATM muffin parties! Do you reject the muffins??

Yes I do, I prefer cheese cakes! :D

Yes I do, I prefer cheese cakes! :D

Nooooo! You evil muffin-refusing person! *sobs dramatically*

Edit: Okay, I'm done. <3

When you get thrown in jail for shooting some random homeless guy, I will laugh.

Don't get a gun. Get something less lethal, like pepperspray or a taser. Or carry a crossbow. They are not as lethal as guns, but are very visible and say "don't fuck with me."

Not nearly as loud as he will laugh when you try spraying pepper in the eyes of a robber wearing sunglasses. (Almost all do)
Have you ever seen a video of what can happen when you shoot someone with a taser at a range of 1 or 2 feet?

Get a gun, you are destined to become a victim, especially since you live in a city where only the criminals can have guns.

Not nearly as loud as he will laugh when you try spraying pepper in the eyes of a robber wearing sunglasses. (Almost all do)
Have you ever seen a video of what can happen when you shoot someone with a taser at a range of 1 or 2 feet?

Get a gun, you are destined to become a victim, especially since you live in a city where only the criminals can have guns.

Yea, I plan on getting a taurus pt-111. It can hold 10, 9mm rounds. It's small so I can hide it and its $260. :D

haha I can see the APB right now. All units apprehend unknown individual armed with crossbow approaching the First National Bank ATM.

Haha! I would be more impressed by someone who figures out how to carry the thing on thier back while riding in a car.

When approaching an ATM, look around to see who is around. If you see someone who triggers your "spider-sense", go to another ATM.

Bingo! This goes for every place. Always know your surroundings and who is in them. Even if you are just going out to your car. That is the #1 thing you can do to ensure your safety. It's far more effective than carrying a weapon.

I understand where Stone is coming from here. I'm guessing he comes from a similar background as I do. I grew up disabled in a small southern town. As a result I was sheltered from much of the real world. When at 18 I head out into the world to make my own way, I frequently over reacted to situations like this. A lot of harmless stuff scared the crap out of me. And being disabled made me feel that much more vulnerable. But as you get older and more experienced, you learn to separate the real threats from imagined ones. Give him time.

But for those of you who do not live in the southern US, the culture is very different here than you might realize. Even small cities here are violent, "dog eat dog," hell holes if you aren't among the privileged classes. People here often feel the need to solve all their problems with violence. It's might makes right. Even in a town of only 30,000 it isn't considered wise to walk alone after dark. Southern hospitality and gentility is only a thin veneer. And it's not just he beggars and homeless causing the problems there. Bored groups of teens roaming the streets are just as big a part of it. A group of teen boys sets off more alarms for me than any "beggar" does.

Before getting my real world bearings and learning to constantly monitor my environment, I was mugged at gun point, physically attacked while waiting at a bus stop (during broad daylight), routinely verbally assaulted and spit on, and found myself in more that a few dangerous situations that I only barely got out of. Some sort of self defense is almost a requirement here.

By contrast, when I lived in Minneapolis, I never had any such problem. I was safe walking around downtown after dark alone there. Beggars still ask for money up there, of course. But they don't harass and intimidate like they do here. And the teens generally seem to have better things to do than wander around town looking for vunerable strangers to attack. It's a totally different culture. Maybe it has something to do with the heat and crippling poverty down here.

And the person who said that the homeless only exist in the biggest cities is full of crap. My little city of 30,000 has a homeless shelter, a soup kitchen, and several food banks. Poverty and homelessness exists in every part of the US. It's just not as obvious as it is in the big cities.

.

This is getting ridiculous.
What, a man with a closed trenchcoat approaching you from behind, potentially mumbling and giggling to himself?

You tell me that he isn't naked underneith.

Don't worry, I will only shoot when theres a very real threat to my life and to my safety. IE he has a gun and he is pulling it out, or he is actually robbing me. Other than that I'll just finish up my business and leave.So then what you're saying is that you're going to be so skilled with your gun that you can pull it out and fire accurately before someone else who has had a head start can pull their gun out?

So then what you're saying is that you're going to be so skilled with your gun that you can pull it out and fire accurately before someone else who has had a head start can pull their gun out?

Damn straight, Clint Eastwood style! :mp5: <--cept with a revolver.

Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

i think you're frightened and/or paranoid - absolute last kind of person id give a concealed weapon license to. no offence, just think you're seriously over-reacting to the situation.

I keep a collapsible steel baton in my knapsack. Between that and my admittedly rusty martial arts experience I don't feel the need for anything more lethal.

I don't think highly of guns. Oh, I'm not against their use. I certanly support the Second AMendment. But I consider them to be a crutch for the weak.

No offense. :p

I keep a collapsible steel baton in my knapsack. Between that and my admittedly rusty martial arts experience I don't feel the need for anything more lethal.

I don't think highly of guns. Oh, I'm not against their use. I certanly support the Second AMendment. But I consider them to be a crutch for the weak.

No offense. :p

I didn't know civilians could own a asp? If so I will have one within the week.

If you don't mind the possibility of killing/permanently injuring the hobo, then get a mean-ass looking revolver. If not, pepper spray always works.
Hey man! What do you have agaisnt hobos!:upyours:

To all those who said that the host post (that sounds soooo cool) is paranoid "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they ain't after you":D

I didn't know civilians could own a asp? If so I will have one within the week.

I carry an asp, too. But I'd never keep it in my knapsack - take too long to pull out in an emergency. I keep my asp clutched to my breast.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?

Get direct deposit. Bam! Problem solved.

Welp, I talked to my parents, and my dad actually supports me getting a small handgun, and next weekend we're going to the local gun shop to get a small handgun. I'll also be signing up for gun classes.

A very bad idea indeed. You'll get robbed, and that gun will go straight into the hands of another criminal.

The cycle continues.

A very bad idea indeed. You'll get robbed, and that gun will go straight into the hands of another criminal.

The cycle continues.

The same could be said for a Pepper spray you know.... :rolleyes:

You anti-gun people are so funny, you're afraid of a thing, a piece of tool. Jeez you should be afraid of the human, not the tool.

I hate this country, i was mugged at knife point and there are no laws saying i can shoot the mugger, hell i cant even have a gun, what am i supposed to do?? this country sucks!! Stone bridges, get a gun and defend yourself with honour, or hell just defend yourself...

The same could be said for a Pepper spray you know.... :rolleyes:
Of course it could. But then, a pepper spray is not a weapon that kills, and a robbery using pepper spray would be a little more complicated.

You anti-gun people are so funny, you're afraid of a thing, a piece of tool. Jeez you should be afraid of the human, not the tool.
You have a strange tendency to argue strawmen, you know that?

Fact is that a gun will not safe you if you are getting robbed. If that guy really wanted to get your money, he could have pulled a gun on you and taken it. If you had had a gun, you would have had to get it out of wherever you carry it, get it ready and then aim it at him.

You think you are capable of doing all that and then killing or hurting a man, and he (who most likely has been around crime for some time, has most likely seen people around him die from all sorts of reasons, and couldn't give a shit about morals or pity) won't shoot you if you move?

I don't know why everyone thinks the topic starter is paranoid; you people are so trusting. No wonder the petty criminals are so successful.

Of course it could. But then, a pepper spray is not a weapon that kills, and a robbery using pepper spray would be a little more complicated.


You have a strange tendency to argue strawmen, you know that?

Fact is that a gun will not safe you if you are getting robbed. If that guy really wanted to get your money, he could have pulled a gun on you and taken it. If you had had a gun, you would have had to get it out of wherever you carry it, get it ready and then aim it at him.

That is why you carry it in a place where you can quickly draw it. Look, mose crimimals are cowards. They want an easy score, if they see some resistent, such as a guy that's also packing, he'll back away. It won't stop me from shooting him in the leg or in the chest. Because if he has a weapon, then by law I have the right to shoot him and it would count as justifiable homocide. I have my own personal space, if he violates that space and has his weapon drawn, or ignores my warnings, then I will shoot.


You think you are capable of doing all that and then killing or hurting a man, and he (who most likely has been around crime for some time, has most likely seen people around him die from all sorts of reasons, and couldn't give a shit about morals or pity) won't shoot you if you move?

That's what the classes are for.

I don't know why everyone thinks the topic starter is paranoid; you people are so trusting. No wonder the petty criminals are so successful.

I don't trust anyone except my family and friends.

That's the point. He was wearing a large coat. He could've been hiding a gun and I wouldn't been able to see it until it was too late. If I had some form of self defense I could at least show him that he better not mess with me. I may go look for a 9mm.

First off, if he had had a gun, and had he pulled this gun, there wouldnt have been much of anything you could have done about it.

Secondly, what the hell do you need a gun for?
To kill bums with big coats?

Did he do anything, except try to mooch money?

Sure, its a possibility that he could have had a gun, or weapon, but its also a possibility that rabid squirrels may shoot wildly out of his, or your own butt.

In a situation like that one, if you both had had guns, you both would have ended up dead, or severely wounded.
Or, at best, you may have had a dead man on your concious.
Is that something you can potentially live with, you who wish to be a priest?

"Thou shalt not kill."

Remember?

If you dont feel safe, take a martial art class, or take some boxing lessons.
No one gets seriously hurt, and you learn a useful skill.

First off, if he had had a gun, and had he pulled this gun, there wouldnt have been much of anything you could have done about it.

Eh yea, but at least I didn't go down without fighting.


Secondly, what the hell do you need a gun for?
To kill bums with big coats?

Self defense


Did he do anything, except try to mooch money?

No, but only because I grabbed my card and ran to my car and locked the door and got the hell out. Look, he had on an overcoat, that covered his body from his neck to his knees (he had pants on), and it was a warm spring time day in North Carolina.


Sure, its a possibility that he could have had a gun, or weapon, but its also a possibility that rabid squirrels may shoot wildly out of his, or your own butt.

You know, I would pay to see that.


In a situation like that one, if you both had had guns, you both would have ended up dead, or severely wounded.


Eh, like I said, criminals like an easy score, if they can't get an easy score they usually just back off. Except for the coke heads who are high.


Or, at best, you may have had a dead man on your concious.
Is that something you can potentially live with, you who wish to be a priest?


Eh, if the guy had a weapon, if he was threatening my life, then I have the right to defend myself. Yea, I can live with that.


"Thou shalt not kill."

Remember?


Actually, in the Hebrew verison, murder and kill has two diffrent meanings. To murder, is to kill without a good reason. While everything else falls under kill. I dunno about you but shooting a guy who's trying to rob me sounds like a good reason to kill him.


If you dont feel safe, take a martial art class, or take some boxing lessons.
No one gets seriously hurt, and you learn a useful skill.

Eh, my body is not equipped for martial arts or boxings. Plus, I do want the perp to get hurt because it'll make him think twice before trying to rob someone else.

Eh yea, but at least I didn't go down without fighting.

Eh, like I said, criminals like an easy score, if they can't get an easy score they usually just back off. Except for the coke heads who are high.

Eh, my body is not equipped for martial arts or boxings. Plus, I do want the perp to get hurt because it'll make him think twice before trying to rob someone else.
The coke head would be easier to shoot too ;)
But yeah you want to deter crims from trying again to say someone old and defencless, kick their head in!! or hell shoot both their legs... make it so they cant try and do it again!!

Eh yea, but at least I didn't go down without fighting.



Self defense

Defense against what?
Something that didnt happen?



No, but only because I grabbed my card and ran to my car and locked the door and got the hell out. Look, he had on an overcoat, that covered his body from his neck to his knees (he had pants on), and it was a warm spring time day in North Carolina.

So what?

Nothing happened, dont you think buying a gun becuase of this one incident, in wich, nothing happened, maight not be over-reacting?







Eh, like I said, criminals like an easy score, if they can't get an easy score they usually just back off. Except for the coke heads who are high.

I dont think you know much about "the criminals".
I also daresay, you wouldnt recoqnize a cokehead if you saw one.



Eh, if the guy had a weapon, if he was threatening my life, then I have the right to defend myself. Yea, I can live with that.

I'll bet you could.



Actually, in the Hebrew verison, murder and kill has two diffrent meanings. To murder, is to kill without a good reason. While everything else falls under kill. I dunno about you but shooting a guy who's trying to rob me sounds like a good reason to kill him.

If you think killing a man over a few dollars is a good thing, I want you to stay the hell away from the priesthood, and any impressionable minds you may meet.
You have no business wearing the cloth, becuase you obviously havent listened to anything in that book, and if you have, then you have clearly ignored it, or rationalized it to suit your own purposes.



Eh, my body is not equipped for martial arts or boxings. Plus, I do want the perp to get hurt because it'll make him think twice before trying to rob someone else.


You have no business being a man of God.

You should expose yourself to heavy doses of radiation in the hopes of mutating some special super-power.
Worked for me ... sorta.
I was playing around at the x-ray machine with my genitals and - whoops, TMI.

Worked for me ... sorta.
I was playing around at the x-ray machine with my genitals and - whoops, TMI.

This mean that there wont likely be any "little Straughns" running around?

Or that when you get angry, you weenie turns huge and green and yells "Weenie Smash!".

I'm anti-social and like being alone.
To be fair, this assessment ALONE should tell you about how much autonomy/personal capability you need.

Find a style that works with your strong points, and get good at it. And don't let your antisocial traits obscure your ability to get help when you need it.

What do yall think?
Getting a gun? No, you express yourself as "trigger happy" by thinking by having a gun you'll somehow be defended against a concealed weapon.
Not to mention if you are armed with a knife or gun, you're more likely to get shot because you are a direct threat to the mugger's life.
Take up some martial art or something. Always carry a cell phone, on your ear, when alone and in uncomfortable atmosphere.

This mean that there wont likely be any "little Straughns" running around?No, the opposite :eek: Ever see "Gremlins"?

Or that when you get angry, you weenie turns huge and green and yells "Weenie Smash!".*FLORT*
>tears<
Haha!
Strangely enough, our state already has one of those -his name's Ted Stevens. Perhaps you've heard of him?

No, the opposite :eek: Ever see "Gremlins"?


Wait a minute...

You mean you've been feeding your penis after midnight?

Egads!

There could be hundreds of the little bastards loose!

I hate this country, i was mugged at knife point and there are no laws saying i can shoot the mugger, hell i cant even have a gun, what am i supposed to do?? this country sucks!! Stone bridges, get a gun and defend yourself with honour, or hell just defend yourself...
Move to Alaska.
My source is slow as he-doublehockeysticks, but i'll amend this post here in a minute.

*ahem*

http://www.adn.com/front/story/7098766p-7005383c.html

Seven cities are forced to loosen their gun rules
PERMITS: Co-written by NRA, law says state overrules local policies.

By MATT VOLZ
The Associated Press

Published: October 17, 2005
Last Modified: October 18, 2005 at 02:27 AM


JUNEAU -- Starting Wednesday, handgun owners won't need permits to carry concealed weapons in the seven Alaska cities where permits are still required.


That same day, there will be no more restrictions on keeping a firearm in a vehicle -- even if the car is parked on private property where the owner has a no-gun policy.

The thrust of Alaska's new anti-gun control law is this: Municipalities will be barred from passing gun laws that are more restrictive than state law.

...
It goes on ...

http://www.adn.com/front/story/7403430p-7315561c.html

Bills would ease self-defense laws
NO DUTY TO RETREAT: Police fear change would benefit criminals.

By RICHARD RICHTMYER
Anchorage Daily News

Published: January 30, 2006
Last Modified: January 31, 2006 at 01:17 AM


JUNEAU -- Alaska lawmakers are eyeing legislation to loosen the limits on when people can justifiably kill attackers and to shield them from lawsuits if they do.


Proponents say the state's standards for self-defense don't do enough to protect law-abiding citizens, leaving them vulnerable to attack and liable to prosecution if they fight back.

Some police agencies and prosecutors, however, worry that the proposed new law could make it easier for murderers, gang members and other criminals to elude prosecution by claiming self-defense.

Under the current law, unless you're in your home, you are legally obligated to try to flee from an attacker if you can do so "with complete personal safety and with complete safety as to others." Lawyers refer to this as the "duty to retreat."

Rep. John Coghill Jr., the House Majority leader, and Sen. Gene Therriault have each introduced bills that would do away with the duty to retreat.

"The burden of having to flee from bad actors has caused people to be fearful of protecting themselves," Coghill said.

"What I want to do is say, 'Look, you've got the right to stand your ground.' "

The legislation also says that those who kill or wound in self-defense would be immune from civil liability, and they'd be entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees, court costs and lost income incurred in defending against any civil lawsuits filed against them.

Coghill, R-North Pole, said he drafted his bill, HB 314, after Florida passed comparable legislation last year. The National Rifle Association is pushing for similar laws in states across the country.

"We firmly believe that all citizens have a duty to protect the community from criminals and shouldn't have to run away or defend themselves in court simply because they refused to run from someone who was attempting to injure or kill them or some member of their family," said Wayne Ross, an Anchorage attorney and a long-time NRA board member.

Police in Anchorage and Fairbanks, and state prosecutors, fear the proposed legislation might have unintended consequences.

Eh, my body is not equipped for martial arts or boxings.

Neither is mine. And that is exactly why I don't carry a gun. If I can't defend myself physically from an attacker, how the hell am I going to keep him from taking my gun away from me and pistol whipping me to death. Think about it. If you are taken by suprise do you really think you are going to be able to find, pull, point, aim, and shoot a gun before you are taken down? That's a good trick for a person who is in perfect physical and mental condition much less those of us who are disabled. You'll likely just piss him off. And instead of just getting mugged, you'll get the crap beaten out of you or killed.

The best thing to do is to be aware of every aspect of your surroundings and leave if any thing feels not quite right. And it wouldn't hurt to take a self defense class. You don't have to be a muscle man for that. Just learn a few basic techniques to get out of a scrape. It's as much mental as physical. And if you are really worried, take a class in hostage negotiation. Then you'll be able to talk your way out of almost any situation.

Keeping a gun in your home or car, however might not be a bad idea. Just don't think you are going to be able to out draw a guy who makes crime his living. He may be stupid, or he may be an expert at his "trade."

.

Wait a minute...

You mean you've been feeding your penis after midnight?

Egads!

There could be hundreds of the little bastards loose!
It gets bored when i'm not arguing with someone here .... :eek:
The nice thing is, the radiation hasn't alloted a consistent visible mutation, so unless someone does some bloodwork, they'll tend to blend into the scenery at the zoo, and there's less risk of it getting back to me in a negative fashion.

Look, mose crimimals are cowards. They want an easy score, if they see some resistent, such as a guy that's also packing, he'll back away.
a) As far as I know, you wouldn't be showing your gun to everyone. So he won't have the chance to see and back away.
b) I have seen absolutely no evidence that criminals are either more or less cowardly than anyone else in society. Indeed, considering that career criminals would have been around violence quite a lot, and might be more aggressive in nature anyway, the indication would be that a criminal is less of a coward than a normal person.
c) You're still assuming that you wouldn't be the coward if someone is aiming a gun at you.

Move to Alaska.
My source is slow as he-doublehockeysticks, but i'll amend this post here in a minute.

*ahem*

http://www.adn.com/front/story/7098766p-7005383c.html

Seven cities are forced to loosen their gun rules
PERMITS: Co-written by NRA, law says state overrules local policies.

By MATT VOLZ
The Associated Press

Published: October 17, 2005
Last Modified: October 18, 2005 at 02:27 AM


JUNEAU -- Starting Wednesday, handgun owners won't need permits to carry concealed weapons in the seven Alaska cities where permits are still required.


That same day, there will be no more restrictions on keeping a firearm in a vehicle -- even if the car is parked on private property where the owner has a no-gun policy.

The thrust of Alaska's new anti-gun control law is this: Municipalities will be barred from passing gun laws that are more restrictive than state law.

...
It goes on ...

http://www.adn.com/front/story/7403430p-7315561c.html

Bills would ease self-defense laws
NO DUTY TO RETREAT: Police fear change would benefit criminals.

By RICHARD RICHTMYER
Anchorage Daily News

Published: January 30, 2006
Last Modified: January 31, 2006 at 01:17 AM


JUNEAU -- Alaska lawmakers are eyeing legislation to loosen the limits on when people can justifiably kill attackers and to shield them from lawsuits if they do.


Proponents say the state's standards for self-defense don't do enough to protect law-abiding citizens, leaving them vulnerable to attack and liable to prosecution if they fight back.

Some police agencies and prosecutors, however, worry that the proposed new law could make it easier for murderers, gang members and other criminals to elude prosecution by claiming self-defense.

Under the current law, unless you're in your home, you are legally obligated to try to flee from an attacker if you can do so "with complete personal safety and with complete safety as to others." Lawyers refer to this as the "duty to retreat."

Rep. John Coghill Jr., the House Majority leader, and Sen. Gene Therriault have each introduced bills that would do away with the duty to retreat.

"The burden of having to flee from bad actors has caused people to be fearful of protecting themselves," Coghill said.

"What I want to do is say, 'Look, you've got the right to stand your ground.' "

The legislation also says that those who kill or wound in self-defense would be immune from civil liability, and they'd be entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees, court costs and lost income incurred in defending against any civil lawsuits filed against them.

Coghill, R-North Pole, said he drafted his bill, HB 314, after Florida passed comparable legislation last year. The National Rifle Association is pushing for similar laws in states across the country.

"We firmly believe that all citizens have a duty to protect the community from criminals and shouldn't have to run away or defend themselves in court simply because they refused to run from someone who was attempting to injure or kill them or some member of their family," said Wayne Ross, an Anchorage attorney and a long-time NRA board member.

Police in Anchorage and Fairbanks, and state prosecutors, fear the proposed legislation might have unintended consequences.
Nice but i am not giving up Scotland... i love it here, even if gun crime in glasgow is the highest in europe.. and i cant get a gun to protect myself...

I've been robbed twice, and a gun wouldn't have helped either time. The first time, a guy pulled a knife and demanded my wallet. If I'd had a gun, I could have shot him, but my gut instinct was that he'd leave me alone if I gave him my wallet. At the time my wallet had a grand total of 10 dollars, some dust, and I think mold was growing in a deep corner of it. I didn't have a drivers license or credit cards yet. Not worth shooting someone for if I had been armed.

The other occasion, the other guy caught me off-guard and clearly wasn't an idiot. If I had gone for a gun, he would have shot me.

Or that when you get angry, you weenie turns huge and green and yells "Weenie Smash!".

Doesn't yours??? :D

I like America myself but this is a sad story. I don't get the logic that "if everyone had a gun I would be safer because it'd be an equal playing feild". Not only would more people die in conflicts but I'd dare say the criminals would be more skilled and have the initiative and guts to still be ahead of you.

Not to mention gun owners are more likely to shoot a family member than a criminal. America has a major problem that so many people have guns, the solution is to attempt to restrict the number of guns, rather than encouraging more and more people to get guns thus creating a gun society.

Defense against what?
Something that didnt happen?

Nooo, in case something would've happen.


So what?

Nothing happened, dont you think buying a gun becuase of this one incident, in wich, nothing happened, maight not be over-reacting?

THIS time nothing happened, but next time, who knows. I am an Eagle Scout, and our motto is Be Prepare. Sometimes you have to prepare when nothing happens in case something did happen.


I dont think you know much about "the criminals".
I also daresay, you wouldnt recoqnize a cokehead if you saw one.


Trust me, I live on a college campus, I know what a coke-head looks like and I know what they look like high.


I'll bet you could.


Let me ask you something, what would you do if you live out in the middle of no where (in the country) and someone broke into your house, and he had a gun. What, are you going to plead with him, call the cops? Comon man. This is exactly why my dad has a 12 gauge shotgun, and my brother an I have a .22 Semi Automatic rifle. We already protect ourselfs at home with our big guns, now I'm just adding mobile protection with a small handgun.


If you think killing a man over a few dollars is a good thing, I want you to stay the hell away from the priesthood, and any impressionable minds you may meet.


Umm, it was $2,000 from ME doing ODD work at college and around the neighborhood here at my parents house. That is NOT a few dollars.


You have no business wearing the cloth, becuase you obviously havent listened to anything in that book, and if you have, then you have clearly ignored it, or rationalized it to suit your own purposes.


Or maybe I understand it better than you. I read the English verison, Hebrew verison, and Latin verison. I know the book inside and out. Yes Jesus preach love, forgiveness, and compassion. But he also taught us to stand up for what's right, to stand up for ourself, to not be a world's doormat. I refuse to let petty thieves take the money that I worked hard for, in esscence I refuse to be the world's door mat.


You have no business being a man of God.

Thou shall not Judge...

To a very large degree I would say yes. I believe it to be a combination of living in a highly competitive enviorment, with an extremely long period of social policies that completely failed to hold perpetrators accountable for their actions...or allow people to protect themselves. Now that has changed and fortunately so is the trend toward violence.
Also, living in a gun infested society (no, don't deny it, I'm not using it as a reason for gun control).

When you get thrown in jail for shooting some random homeless guy, I will laugh.
It's not nice to assume Stoney is an irresponsible maniac.

A very bad idea indeed. You'll get robbed, and that gun will go straight into the hands of another criminal.

The cycle continues.
What a silly thing to say. Why is he going to get robbed? Why is his gun going to get robbed? Do you think he's so damn clumsy, irresponsible or slow that he couldn't prevent this robbery?

then by law I have the right to shoot him and it would count as justifiable homocide.
Does the idea of "justifiable homocide" actually exist in the law?

Secondly, what the hell do you need a gun for?
To kill bums with big coats?
Perhaps to disable armed threats that might materialise in the future. Do you have something against responsible gun ownership?

While everything else falls under kill. I dunno about you but shooting a guy who's trying to rob me sounds like a good reason to kill him.

No, you're not justified in killing a guy who tries to take your money. you're justified in killing a guy who is trying to take your life, but not your money. In that case you can just kneecap him or something.

Nothing happened, dont you think buying a gun becuase of this one incident, in wich, nothing happened, maight not be over-reacting?

Maybe he should have had one already.

You have no business being a man of God.
Who are you to make this judgement?

Are you a priest or even a Catholic?

Not to mention gun owners are more likely to shoot a family member than a criminal. America has a major problem that so many people have guns, the solution is to attempt to restrict the number of guns, rather than encouraging more and more people to get guns thus creating a gun society.
Gun banning is useless when you already have a gun-ridden society.

I have had three encounters with such people who have asked me for money then try to force me to give them money, on all three which I have thankfully not been robbed.

The first guy was an ass and he was unarmed. He pushed me so I punched him. He wanted all the money I had, which was about $50, so I wasn't going to give it up.

The second guy had a knife, and he wanted my wallet, which I honestly didn't have, and he thought I was lying, so he kept threatening me. I found out I couldn't make him believe so I pretty much punched the crap out of him. I was slightly slashed on my arm, but it was nothing compared to my retaliation.

Third guy was pretty much the second guy all over again, but I didn't get wounded this time.

Learning self defence in the form of martial arts is extremely effective and sometimes much better than keeping a gun or a knife.

Copact Glock chambered in .357 Sig.
Small, light frame that is easy to conceal, even though it carries ten rounds. It packs a punch and won't break the bank cost wise.
The .357 Sig is essentualy a .45 ACP (11.45mm Bullet diameter) case necked down to a 9mm.
The bullet is still only a 9mm but leaves the chamber hauling ass. You generaly don't need anything any bigger. (Sorry Harry)

Glock 33:
http://www.netgunners.com/img/armi/Glock/Glock%2033/Foto_04_Big.jpg

The .357 Sig:
http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/201_individual_weapons/image/357sig_01.jpg

What a silly thing to say. Why is he going to get robbed? Why is his gun going to get robbed? Do you think he's so damn clumsy, irresponsible or slow that he couldn't prevent this robbery?
Basically, yes. It's in the nature of a robbery that you get surprised, probably scared and otherwise react rather irrationally.
In a situtation where one criminal has pulled a weapon on you, threatens to kill you and demands your stuff, I think the smart money is on that criminal to get away with it.

I have had three encounters with such people who have asked me for money then try to force me to give them money, on all three which I have thankfully not been robbed.

The first guy was an ass and he was unarmed. He pushed me so I punched him. He wanted all the money I had, which was about $50, so I wasn't going to give it up.

The second guy had a knife, and he wanted my wallet, which I honestly didn't have, and he thought I was lying, so he kept threatening me. I found out I couldn't make him believe so I pretty much punched the crap out of him. I was slightly slashed on my arm, but it was nothing compared to my retaliation.

Third guy was pretty much the second guy all over again, but I didn't get wounded this time.

Learning self defence in the form of martial arts is extremely effective and sometimes much better than keeping a gun or a knife.

I have never needed to use my carry pistol in a confontation (Sig Sauer P226)
I dropped my advisary like a bag of bricks with a punch to the neck.

Sig Sauer P226
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/sig-p226.jpg

I have had three encounters with such people who have asked me for money then try to force me to give them money, on all three which I have thankfully not been robbed.

The first guy was an ass and he was unarmed. He pushed me so I punched him. He wanted all the money I had, which was about $50, so I wasn't going to give it up.

The second guy had a knife, and he wanted my wallet, which I honestly didn't have, and he thought I was lying, so he kept threatening me. I found out I couldn't make him believe so I pretty much punched the crap out of him. I was slightly slashed on my arm, but it was nothing compared to my retaliation.

Third guy was pretty much the second guy all over again, but I didn't get wounded this time.

Learning self defence in the form of martial arts is extremely effective and sometimes much better than keeping a gun or a knife.


Cool! Too bad about your injuries the second time.

Basically, yes. It's in the nature of a robbery that you get surprised, probably scared and otherwise react rather irrationally.
In a situtation where one criminal has pulled a weapon on you, threatens to kill you and demands your stuff, I think the smart money is on that criminal to get away with it.
Most criminals, especially muggers on the street, are also nervous and scared. Besides, many people have successfully scared away muggers by producing their weapon. Most don't even need to use it.

Self-defence is a real possibility, not just a theoretical construct.

Homeless people are no threat whatsoever. Anybody who sleeps on concrete will have arms and legs so numb that throwing a punch or kick would cause them to injure themselves more than their chosen target.

I'm not sure that a person whom is asking-on Nation States- if they should get pepper spray...OR...a gun, should have a gun.

I would suggest starting with some type of self defense classes. They teach self defense,but also-and more importantly help raise a person's awareness of their surrounding and whats going on. The OP might be better served learning how to avoid potentially bad situations to start with, rather than how to react with them.
I have proven self defense skills with and without weapons. I primarily now avoid the likely people and places where I would have to use them.
To a novice, a weapon can be far more dangerous-It can be taken away and used on them by an experienced/motivated aggressor, it can create a false sense of confidence or even bravado, or it can be used against someone that really wasnt going to be a threat. It might be legal in one place but not another.

Not a decision to be made lightly and NS isnt always the best source of advice on things that count.

Most criminals, especially muggers on the street, are also nervous and scared.

Which means they get agitated when their victim suddenly makes a rush for their inside coat pocket/etc. Odds on him firing due to panicing before you even get the chance to draw yours means you're dead- he's got your money and he's away.

Better without the gun.

Y'all were just waiting for me to post, weren't you?

A firearm is not "self defense", it is only one small component of a defensive stragety & mindset.

A firearm as a personal defensive tool (for one-on-one encounters as described) is useful in four, and only four ways.


If the a potential criminal fails to act because he has a reasonable fear of your being armed.
If the potential criminal sees the holstered gun and flees.
You "brandish" the gun and the criminal flees.
If, while commiting violence upon you you retaliate with lethal force.


Nothing in your description of the incident gets you past point 2.

I carry a gun daily... have for almost 20 years. In that time I have been to point 3 exactly twice and point 2 once. I have also beaten the shit out of someone who thought pulling a knife on me would be clever. Frankly, it was faster and more satisfying to break the guy's arm and dislocate his shoulder than to get my gun out.

A gun is your FINAL option, and anyone approaching it as their FIRST option probably shouldn't be considering a gun. (Unless you are disabled and it is your only viable option...)

fuck the law, get yourself an ak-47 and saw the son of a bitch in half.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?
I think you should hire a crusty old veteran as a bodyguard. 'Course I didn't have anyone in mind you understand. :D

I'm not sure that a person whom is asking-on Nation States- if they should get pepper spray...OR...a gun, should have a gun.

I would suggest starting with some type of self defense classes. They teach self defense,but also-and more importantly help raise a person's awareness of their surrounding and whats going on. The OP might be better served learning how to avoid potentially bad situations to start with, rather than how to react with them.
I have proven self defense skills with and without weapons. I primarily now avoid the likely people and places where I would have to use them.
To a novice, a weapon can be far more dangerous-It can be taken away and used on them by an experienced/motivated aggressor, it can create a false sense of confidence or even bravado, or it can be used against someone that really wasnt going to be a threat. It might be legal in one place but not another.

Not a decision to be made lightly and NS isnt always the best source of advice on things that count.
Sounds like you and Syniks know more than any of us!

Sounds like you and Syniks know more than any of us!
Awww. :fluffle:

Actually, too often it is people with the "Gunz R teh 0n1y Anzer!" attitude that that make it difficult for pro-gun-choice people to be heard.

Self defense is a mindset, not a tool. The tools just augment and reinforce the mindset.

Firstly, fuck martial arts, I'm English, we invented mindless street violence.:D *chants ENGERland moronically*

Seriously though, useful though they are, and indelibly so, they are no more effective than a six foot four, fourteen stone, muscular frame that is not concerned with fighting dirty. After several knees to the testicles, kick their knees ought, and if they have a knife, kick it away and stamp repeatedly on face and nose. Efficient and fun.

Sounds like you and Syniks know more than any of us!

Thats merely my opinion based on experience. I didnt say you were wrong- your opinion most likely suits you best.
I feel I have enough experience to give the advice I did in hopes it will help someone through making them more aware. I'm not looking to promote myself,I have no agenda.

That's what we call "paranoia".

Anyways, why don't you also buy this car (http://detroit-auto-show.autoblog.com/2005/01/07/detroit-auto-show-ford-syn-us-concept/)?

Is this serious??

I have never needed to use my carry pistol in a confontation (Sig Sauer P226)
I dropped my advisary like a bag of bricks with a punch to the neck.

Pft, cheap fighter.

...

Alot of martial arts is mostly ass-kicking. I do Muay thai, and I've seen kids half my height take down guys triple my size in under a minute, so a big frame and fighting dirty may be helpful, but looks can be decieving.

fuck the law, get yourself an ak-47 and saw the son of a bitch in half.

This individual I find to be an ignorant idiot. It is legal to get a Kalashnikov (U.S.) and "sawing off" is a term for shotguns, cuting down the barrel and stock. If you want a small AK the AK-74SU is for you.

http://home.wxs.nl/~rouw0062/dcdbase/images/fa/ar/fa_ar_ak74_2.JPG

Yes, that stock is colapsable.

Nice but i am not giving up Scotland... i love it here, even if gun crime in glasgow is the highest in europe.. and i cant get a gun to protect myself...
A gun doesn't protect you. Ballistic armor protects you. A gun allows you to return fire when appropriate and protect other people (returning fire attracts attention, i.e. the BG(s) start shooting AT you, so it is the opposite of "personal protection") by incapacitating the assailant so the Law can deal with them. Nothing more.

Alot of martial arts is mostly ass-kicking. I do Muay thai, and I've seen kids half my height take down guys triple my size in under a minute, so a big frame and fighting dirty may be helpful, but looks can be decieving.

Even so, keys in your knuckles and elbows to the groin are effective....

This individual I find to be an ignorant idiot. It is legal to get a Kalashnikov (U.S.) and "sawing off" is a term for shotguns, cuting down the barrel and stock.
I think he was refering to "sawing the (mugger) in half" with the AK.

Lot he knows about CRF. :rolleyes:

I think he was refering to "sawing the (mugger) in half" with the AK.

Lot he knows about CRF. :rolleyes:


You cant saw someone in half with an ak47, you need to use an HK g36c.

Nothing else works.

This individual I find to be an ignorant idiot. It is legal to get a Kalashnikov (U.S.) and "sawing off" is a term for shotguns, cuting down the barrel and stock. If you want a small AK the AK-74SU is for you.

http://home.wxs.nl/~rouw0062/dcdbase/images/fa/ar/fa_ar_ak74_2.JPG

Yes, that stock is colapsable.
I see you're a newbie so this is an excellent opportunity to go on a bit of troll-spotting. This DeliveranceRape fellow is a troll. Trolls use inflammatory language and usually use gun smilies. Their posts are usually made in anger and express outrageous opinions without rationalisation, in the hope of provoking anger.

You cant saw someone in half with an ak47, you need to use an HK g36c.

Nothing else works.

Well... that or a chainsaw.

Nothing else works.
MG42's apparently really did saw people in half though. Probably because they were firing so ridiculously fast.

So the same would go for the MG3 (can people buy that?) and various Gatling Guns, Miniguns and so on.

MG42's apparently really did saw people in half though. Probably because they were firing so ridiculously fast.

So the same would go for the MG3 (can people buy that?) and various Gatling Guns, Miniguns and so on.
Like I said. The "cut in half" troll doesn't understand Cyclic Rate of Fire (CRF).

There are some .22 rimfire autos that will hose a target wit so many bullets that, as long as you don't run out, will cut somthing in half. But not an AK.

Martial arts is ok as long as the instructor makes a point of real world training. Too many martial artist train for competion only, and that shit will get you killed when there are no rules.

This is getting ridiculous.


The US Welfare programme is notoriously stingy, compared to Europe, yet nowere here is either socialist or a utopia.


There just isn't enough money left to help the poor and marginalised after we buy those new missile launchers. :(

Ever seen a g36c? Can cut down a tree with it if you need to.

Ever seen a g36c? Can cut down a tree with it if you need to.
Yes, but very few man-portable weapons can.

Doesn't anyone find it in the least bit interesting that one of the most vocally "pro gun" people on NSG (me) would say that, while useful for stopping crmes in progress, "guns don't protect people"?

Or am I just typing Axioms again?

Yes, but very few man-portable weapons can.



And even fewer when they're out of ammo!

Like I said, only the g36c will suffice!

Alot of martial arts is mostly ass-kicking. I do Muay thai, and I've seen kids half my height take down guys triple my size in under a minute, so a big frame and fighting dirty may be helpful, but looks can be decieving.

I've took Judo, and I'm a very tall man. So, anyways, I walked up to my instructor who was more then 2 feet shorter then me (She was about 4'9) and tapped her on her shoulder, and this women had me on the floor faster then I could have gotten there myself.

If you know what your doing, you can beat the hell out of anybody...

Yea, I plan on getting a taurus pt-111. It can hold 10, 9mm rounds. It's small so I can hide it and its $260. :D
Bah, get a compact .45. If you need more than 4 rounds to stop an attacker on the street you're in some deep shit and would be better off with a long arm.

So then what you're saying is that you're going to be so skilled with your gun that you can pull it out and fire accurately before someone else who has had a head start can pull their gun out?
Depends. Most people who go around robbing people at gunpoint probably aren't thinking they'll have to use it. Therefore, as long as you keep a round up the spout or have a revolver, if you practice drawing and shooting at targets only a few feet away and have a relatively well-made holster, you could probably do so.

A very bad idea indeed. You'll get robbed, and that gun will go straight into the hands of another criminal.

The cycle continues.
Are we talking robbed at home here, or robbed while carrying? Cause if the latter, obviously you haven't looked up statistics. It's both extremely rare and much more likely to occur if you're a cop.

Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass I went to the ATM to deposit my weekly pay. Towards the end of my transaction a guy in over coat approached me and ask for some money. I told him that I didn't have any money, grabbed my card and got the hell out of there. That made me realize that I was TOTALLY vunrable in that situation. He could've been hiding a gun in that coat and I could've been shot. So now, I realize that I need self defense when I go to places like ATM. Right now I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license. What do yall think?
You just give him the money. No harm no foul.

Like I said, only the g36c will suffice!
It's just the compact version of a modern assault rifle. It's not all that different from a compact AK or a compact AR-15, whatever their names are.

As "personal defence weapon", I'd get an MP7 anyways, just for the sci-fi coolness factor.

And even fewer when they're out of ammo!

Like I said, only the g36c will suffice!

Poser.

http://www.leverguns.com/csa/2006/dsc00735.jpg

http://www.leverguns.com/csa/2006/dsc00737.jpg

Machine gun?

Nope. Lever action rifles and single action pistols.

Goldurn Hillbillies cutting down perfectly good dead trees. :p

You people call it Paranoida, I call it being better safe than sorry. I'll be going to a gun store tomorrow to look for classes, and handguns. I'll also be looking into the Concealed Carry License requirement for my state.
Good choice. Try to get your pay directly deposited to you checking account, too. Prevention is worth ... aw, we all know that.

Since none of you get it, a g36c has a giant metal picatinny rail on the top. Duh.

Since none of you get it, a g36c has a giant metal picatinny rail on the top. Duh.
Oooooohhhhh.

Hmmm, not all of them do though, do they.

Oooooohhhhh.

Hmmm, not all of them do though, do they.


only the ones called "g36c"

Not the k or the normal one.

http://www.hkpro.com/g36c.htm

Since none of you get it, a g36c has a giant metal picatinny rail on the top. Duh.

And that is a really counterintuitave bad joke, since no one who knows what a picatinny rail is would ever remotely consider it to be able to cut anything in half - no matter how much it looks like a sawbalde in profile.

http://www.leverguns.com/csa/2006/dsc00735.jpg

http://www.leverguns.com/csa/2006/dsc00737.jpg

Machine gun?

Nope. Lever action rifles and single action pistols.

Goldurn Hillbillies cutting down perfectly good dead trees. :p


:D I've got quite a few stumps that look like that too. As well as bowling pins, Necco wafers and an old fire extinguisher.

Welp, I talked to my parents, and my dad actually supports me getting a small handgun, and next weekend we're going to the local gun shop to get a small handgun. I'll also be signing up for gun classes.

That is so the wrong reason to buy a gun. Enjoying target shooting, hunting, or living on a ranch is a good reason to own a gun.

I wouldn’t rely completely on a weapon for self-defence for a lot of reasons. Firstly, you are going to get prosecuted either for using it or having it in public (especially in these terrorism paranoa days). Secondly, you’re never going to have it around with you 24-7 unless you decide to become some kind of survivalist nutbar. Thirdly, you will always have to reach for a weapon and you’re probably not going to be able to get it in time or the stress of the moment will have you drop it when you fumble for it. Fourthly, you might be arming whoever you are dealing with, who then uses it on you. Fifthy, guns aren’t perfect (maybe you stressed the springs on the magazine by keeping it loaded with too much too long. Maybe a mechanism is busted). Sixthly, you might be a crummy shot, especially under stress. Seventhly, talk is cheap. People always talk about how they’re going to bust caps in the first person who crosses them, but it’s harder to do than in the movies. If you learn a non-lethal martial art you’ll be more willing to use it.

Personally, I’d go with unarmed self-defence to fit your frame and needs. Confidence and awareness of your surroundings is the best self-defence. Don’t put yourself in a position where you need it and life goes a lot smoother. Personally, there are a lot of ATM’s I wouldn’t use, especially depending on the time of day. Of course if you’re a civilian contractor in Iraq, then you should get a gun, yes (right after you get your head examined). Carrying weapons isn’t a good idea for most people. It just makes them flinchy and prone to use them unnecessarily.

I carry pepper spray when I’m cycle touring, for bears and other bipedal interlopers, mostly because you get a bit tired to do much after cycling all day and I’m not going to outrun a bear unless I’m going downhill. The pepper spray is a mercy for dogs and aggressive drunks at campsites, because the alternative is being kicked with a shoe that has metal pedal clips and that would be messy (apparently some yokels don’t like people wearing spandex camping at the edge of their town).

You just give him the money. No harm no foul.
Are you serious? I don't think that someone should be killed for trying to steal money, but they should be just given it either. That way, the victim is poorer, the criminal is richer (to buy more drugs, guns, whatever) and feeling bold enough to rob more people. I think that's harm.

Goldurn Hillbillies cutting down perfectly good dead trees. :p
What's the point of using guns to cut things in half? Waste of valuable bullets!

Are you serious? I don't think that someone should be killed for trying to steal money, but they should be just given it either. That way, the victim is poorer, the criminal is richer (to buy more drugs, guns, whatever) and feeling bold enough to rob more people. I think that's harm.


What's the point of using guns to cut things in half? Waste of valuable bullets!

Thats what a blooper is for. (M79 40mm grenade launcher)

This is what I hear you saying;
Well, I had one hell of an experience tonight. After mass ... I am considering either pepper spray or a handgun with a conclead weapon license.
Maybe you're going to the wrong church.

I don't know why everyone thinks the topic starter is paranoid; you people are so trusting. No wonder the petty criminals are so successful.
With an attitude like that, no wonder America has such high rates of gun fatalities and gun crime.

The gun is far, far more likely to harm you or someone you know than a criminal. Just give them the money - unlike your life, that can be replaced.

Are you serious? I don't think that someone should be killed for trying to steal money, but they should be just given it either. That way, the victim is poorer, the criminal is richer (to buy more drugs, guns, whatever) and feeling bold enough to rob more people. I think that's harm.

And the answer is?


What's the point of using guns to cut things in half? Waste of valuable bullets!
We can always make more. It costs me about 17 cents to make a .223 round with a cheap 55 grain bullet.

With an attitude like that, no wonder America has such high rates of gun fatalities and gun crime.

And that would be why crime has decreased even though more people are defending themselves and it increased during the passive resistance era?

The gun is far, far more likely to harm you or someone you know than a criminal. Just give them the money - unlike your life, that can be replaced.

That method failed. It only encourages criminals to commit more crimes.

A firearm is only "more likely" to harm you or someone that you know if you are completely untrained in it or (statistically) you are a convicted felon. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the US and very few "accidents" each year.

And that would be why crime has decreased even though more people are defending themselves and it increased during the passive resistance era?



That method failed. It only encourages criminals to commit more crimes.

A firearm is only "more likely" to harm you or someone that you know if you are completely untrained in it or (statistically) you are a convicted felon. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the US and very few "accidents" each year.
Too bad Whispering Legs, or Deep Kimchi, or whatever he's calling himself isn't around to tell the story of his friend that did exactly what the predator wanted. Up to and including holding out his hands for them to be amputated.

And that would be why crime has decreased even though more people are defending themselves and it increased during the passive resistance era?
You talk as if this means crime in America is under control. The simple fact is that the homocide rate in the US is massive when compared to other Western nations.

That method failed. It only encourages criminals to commit more crimes.
Or you develop an effective police force that catches criminals. This is much better than having a simply robbery turn into a murder as people try to 'defend' themselves and just get themselves killed instead. Robbers aren't stupid; you get a gun, they just get a bigger gun and then use it from the start rather than if you don't co-operate.

A firearm is only "more likely" to harm you or someone that you know if you are completely untrained in it or (statistically) you are a convicted felon. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the US and very few "accidents" each year.
I would describe any 'accident' as being too many. I would hardly describe is as 'few.'

I wouldn?t rely completely on a weapon for self-defence for a lot of reasons. Firstly, you are going to get prosecuted either for using it or having it in public (especially in these terrorism paranoa days).

False. Most states in the US have CCW laws.

Secondly, you?re never going to have it around with you 24-7 unless you decide to become some kind of survivalist nutbar.

People who have CCW's are not "survivalist nutbars"

Thirdly, you will always have to reach for a weapon and you?re probably not going to be able to get it in time or the stress of the moment will have you drop it when you fumble for it.

That's what training is for. Most armed citizens also train more than criminals and even the police.



Fourthly, you might be arming whoever you are dealing with, who then uses it on you.

Myth w/ no corroborating support.

Fifthy, guns aren?t perfect (maybe you stressed the springs on the magazine by keeping it loaded with too much too long. Maybe a mechanism is busted).

Maybe, maybe, maybe basic care/maintenance would prevent all that

Sixthly, you might be a crummy shot, especially under stress.

Once again, training.


Seventhly, talk is cheap. People always talk about how they?re going to bust caps in the first person who crosses them, but it?s harder to do than in the movies. If you learn a non-lethal martial art you?ll be more willing to use it.

And he's already stated that direct physical MA's are not good for him.

Personally, I?d go with unarmed self-defence to fit your frame and needs. Confidence and awareness of your surroundings is the best self-defence. Don?t put yourself in a position where you need it and life goes a lot smoother. Personally, there are a lot of ATM?s I wouldn?t use, especially depending on the time of day. Of course if you?re a civilian contractor in Iraq, then you should get a gun, yes (right after you get your head examined). Carrying weapons isn?t a good idea for most people. It just makes them flinchy and prone to use them unnecessarily.

I agree w/ the first part, however, a firearm for self-defense is considered a part of the package. CCW does NOT make "most people" trigger happy of flinchy. This has been proven over and over again.

[/QUOTE]

You talk as if this means crime in America is under control. The simple fact is that the homocide rate in the US is massive when compared to other Western nations.

and for the most part has been always. Yet it's dropping. The homicide rate has nothing to do w/ firearm availability.


Or you develop an effective police force that catches criminals. This is much better than having a simply robbery turn into a murder as people try to 'defend' themselves and just get themselves killed instead. Robbers aren't stupid; you get a gun, they just get a bigger gun and then use it from the start rather than if you don't co-operate.

More effective police are needed. W/ that I agree. However, they cannot be everywhere. Hundreds of thousands of people in the US defend themselves w/ firearms every year w/o "simple robberies turning into murders"".

Robbers are cowards. You get a gun, they'll go after someone who doesn't have one instead.


I would describe any 'accident' as being too many. I would hardly describe is as 'few.'

You can describe it however you want. The FACTS are that accidents are rare and have been dropping even w/ increases in ownership.

Too bad Whispering Legs, or Deep Kimchi, or whatever he's calling himself isn't around to tell the story of his friend that did exactly what the predator wanted. Up to and including holding out his hands for them to be amputated.


I hadn't heard that one.

I hadn't heard that one.
There isn't much more to the story, but it does illustrate the point that not all predators are satisfied with just taking one's wallet and watch.

There isn't much more to the story, but it does illustrate the point that not all predators are satisfied with just taking one's wallet and watch.

Which is exactly why the authorities advocate defending oneself now especially in cases of rape.

Also, I know from experience that it takes over 15 minutes for the police to arrive after calling 911. A lot can happen in 15 minutes.

There isn't much more to the story, but it does illustrate the point that not all predators are satisfied with just taking one's wallet and watch.


Too many people dont understand this. By the time they learn it isnt just a petty thief, its too late.
Many predators are in it for the thrill-they'll take you're $10.00, but stick you with a knife just for the thrill. Its never as easy as surrendering the valuables on you and the criminal takes off,leaving you unscathed. If that happens-you're lucky. But-are you willing to wait and hope thats the case?

Only if you're a trusting fool.

Be aware of where you are and people that are around. Be prepared to defend yourself or your loved ones.

Too many people dont understand this. By the time they learn it isnt just a petty thief, its too late.
Many predators are in it for the thrill-they'll take you're $10.00, but stick you with a knife just for the thrill. Its never as easy as surrendering the valuables on you and the criminal takes off,leaving you unscathed. If that happens-you're lucky. But-are you willing to wait and hope thats the case?

Only if you're a trusting fool.

Be aware of where you are and people that are around. Be prepared to defend yourself or your loved ones.

And here's a perfect example:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3734468.html

"The men repeatedly pointed their weapons at the heads of family members as they demanded money. One man vaguely threatened Harvey by telling him not to worry because he would be sleeping after they left."


I'm sure they would have just left peacefully. :rolleyes:

And here's a perfect example:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3734468.html

"The men repeatedly pointed their weapons at the heads of family members as they demanded money. One man vaguely threatened Harvey by telling him not to worry because he would be sleeping after they left."


I'm sure they would have just left peacefully. :rolleyes:
Let's see, it was in Houston and the victim had a hotel key in his pocket. Do you suppose it was a refugee from New Orleans just trying to make ends meet?