NationStates Jolt Archive

As the old adage goes, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Tough luck, McLellans of Minnesota - hey, just bear in mind that shortly after Paul McCartney and his wife recently spent time frolicking with the seal pups (with all the attendant media circus that ex-Beatles can still muster), a decision was made to increase quotas in the annual seal hunt - and high time, IMO. There's over six million of the bloody things. A sustainable herd rings in at two million or less - and I hope we can cull the numbers back to those levels, soon.

Stupid damn people. Here's the link, and the cut-n-pasted story below:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/17/senator-seal060317.html

Senator fires back at U.S. family upset with seal hunt

Last Updated Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:16:34 EST
CBC News

A Liberal senator has replied to a family in Minnesota upset about Canada's seal hunt with a letter denouncing the United States for executing prisoners at home and killing people in Iraq.

The McLellan family had written to Canadian senators to say they cancelled a vacation in Canada because of the hunt, which they called "horrible" and "inhumane," Montreal's La Presse reports.

In her response, Senator Céline Hervieux-Payette said that what she finds horrible is "the daily massacre of innocent people in Iraq, the execution of prisoners – mainly blacks – in American prisons, the massive sale of handguns to Americans, the destabilization of the entire world by the American government's aggressive foreign policy, etc."

She said Americans are not in a position to criticize others. "They must start to look at their own behaviour, the permanent heightening of the planet's insecurity since the election of Bush," she told La Presse.

"All senators received the letter from the McLellans and I was the only one to respond," she said.

The family "did not choose a good cause," she added.

In their letter, the McLellans said they love Canada and have Canadian ancestors but cancelled a trip to Canada last year because of the seal hunt and will scrap plans for one this year if the spring hunt goes ahead, La Presse said.

Hervieux-Payette, a lawyer and former Liberal MP, was appointed to the Senate in 1995 by then prime minister Jean Chrétien. She last drew public attention with a private member's bill in 2004 to outlaw spanking of children.

In defending the seal hunt, she called it a centuries-old practice and part of the livelihood of coastal residents both native and white.

She invited the McLellans to come to Canada to see a humane society that lives in safety and respects the traditions of its native people.

It is not clear whether she might pay a penalty for remarks that could be seen as anti-American. Once appointed, senators have a job until retirement at 75.

A Toronto-area MP, Carolyn Parrish, was thrown out of the Liberal caucus in 2004 after she stomped on a George Bush doll and renounced her loyalty to the party. She stayed in Parliament as an Independent but did not seek re-election this past winter.

You should hunt them on Easter. Everybody loves Easter Seals. :D

Hmmm sounds like the senator is trolling for attention.

A Liberal senator has replied to a family in Minnesota upset about Canada's seal hunt with a letter denouncing the United States for executing prisoners at home and killing people in Iraq.

Pwnt! Seriously, so much bellyaching over a couple of seals, but not a thought about their own government's killing of people. The death penalty in the US is much, much more a barbaric practice than killing a few seals.

Pwnt! Seriously, so much bellyaching over a couple of seals, but not a thought about their own government's killing of people. The death penalty in the US is much, much more a barbaric practice than killing a few seals.
No it's not.

No it's not.

Some of us live in societies where people are valued higher than seals. I forget that you don't.

Some of us live in societies where people are valued higher than seals. I forget that you don't.

Prisoners, they are not people. Dehumanization.....it is a wonderful thing.

A baby seal walks into a club.

Some of us live in societies where people are valued higher than seals. I forget that you don't.
You generalize the same way all gays do.

Some of us live in societies where people are valued higher than seals. I forget that you don't.

Seals are cuddly and sweet. People primarily suck.

Prisoners, they are not people. Dehumanization.....it is a wonderful thing.

Apparently, as it makes entire nations able to live with themselves in hypocrisy.

You generalize the same way all gays do.

You retort the same way all retortless people do.

All I have to say to this is....

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Suck on THAT!

All I have to say to this is....

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Suck on THAT!

It really was sweet. Do you know how one could praise this senator for this?

You retort the same way all retortless people do.
Funny, I thought my retort was right on point. ;)

Re: Death penalty and wether I value human life over the life of a seal. A seal is an animal. It has no sese of right and wrong and pretty much just does what it does to survive. If it were a choice between an unknown human being and a seal I'd take the human everytime. But if it is a choice between a seal and a human that I do know, say the one who raped and murder that seven month old, well, forget the seal. I'd take the life of the bacteria on the shit I took this morning over his.

Apparently, as it makes entire nations able to live with themselves in hypocrisy.

Dehumanization is a necessary evil in some cases. It should be used carefully though, very carefully.

Oh yea. We were long over due for a US sucks thread.

Have fun.

It really was sweet. Do you know how one could praise this senator for this?

Maybe the Senator was right, I don't think she was but maybe she was. Maybe the Family was right, I think there a bunch of dumbasses but maybe they were right. The point of all this is that some people really need to learn to just shut up.

Funny, I thought my retort was right on point. ;)

If by "right on point" you mean "dull and base," then sure.

Re: Death penalty and wether I value human life over the life of a seal. A seal is an animal. It has no sese of right and wrong and pretty much just does what it does to survive. If it were a choice between an unknown human being and a seal I'd take the human everytime. But if it is a choice between a seal and a human that I do know, say the one who raped and murder that seven month old, well, forget the seal. I'd take the life of the bacteria on the shit I took this morning over his.

I forget how people raised in countries that have the death penalty have been taught to rationalise their behaviour to be able to cope living in such a low society.

Dehumanization is a necessary evil in some cases. It should be used carefully though, very carefully.
It is never necessary, but you're right about it being evil.

Heh heh... ripped.

America is rapidly becoming the most inhumane place on the planet. It's every action seems calculated to strip the value of human life and replace the gaping void left by mutual respect with 'fluffy animals', 'guns' and a 'constitution'.

Maybe the Senator was right, I don't think she was but maybe she was.

She was. That's why I'd like to send her something encouraging. We need to support people like her, who have the sense to point out this "oh, won't someone please think of the seals, but forget the people we put to death" hypocrisy. Kudos on her.

Seals are people to.

LOL

Heh heh... ripped.

America is rapidly becoming the most inhumane place on the planet. It's every action seems calculated to strip the value of human life and replace the gaping void left by mutual respect with 'fluffy animals', 'guns' and a 'constitution'.
Hmmm. Well, I won't quite agree with this statement, not when children are still sold into sexual slavery, forced to become soldiers, and while a myriad of other abuses go on in nations around this world. But I will say this:

We all expect more from the US. And we are right to. What we object to is the false image which is constantly pierced by the corrupt reality. Smarten up.

Don't we kill millions of animals a day in this country? Didn't we hunt our national animal nearly to the point of extinction? I don't think the US should assume the moral authority to condemn other nations for hunting.

Heh heh... ripped.

America is rapidly becoming the most inhumane place on the planet. It's every action seems calculated to strip the value of human life and replace the gaping void left by mutual respect with 'fluffy animals', 'guns' and a 'constitution'.

Yep, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Iran, Sudan, Zimbabwe, & Nepal are so much better then America. Yep, America is so horrible with its "Democracy", "Bill of Rights", & "Elected Representatives".

I cancelled my trip to Sweden because of Scandanavian retortfullness.

Hmmm. Well, I won't quite agree with this statement, not when children are still sold into sexual slavery, forced to become soldiers, and while a myriad of other abuses go on in nations around this world. But I will say this:

We all expect more from the US. And we are right to. What we object to is the false image which is constantly pierced by the corrupt reality. Smarten up.


Ah, of course. My mistake.

Hypocritically inhumane, with it's very soullessness becoming entered into it's legal system.

All I have to say to this is....

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Suck on THAT!

Soooo.... many... responses... cannot... speak... at ... normal... rate. *head explodes*

Ah, of course. My mistake.

Hypocritically inhumane, with it's very soullessness becoming entered into it's legal system.

Oh this should be fun.

Do explain.

She was. That's why I'd like to send her something encouraging. We need to support people like her, who have the sense to point out this "oh, won't someone please think of the seals, but forget the people we put to death" hypocrisy. Kudos on her.

I hope the Prime Minister sends her a message very soon, and I hope that soon after we see a new Conservative Senator take her place.

Heh heh... ripped.

America is rapidly becoming the most inhumane place on the planet. It's every action seems calculated to strip the value of human life and replace the gaping void left by mutual respect with 'fluffy animals', 'guns' and a 'constitution'.

Nothing like a bit of hyperbole. TA, this is my friend, reality. I know you've never met, but I thought I would introduce before you decide to post further.

And the fact that you value the life of some pedophile rapist means you have no morals. Not surprising for a gay guy.

Gonna have to report this.

Don't we kill millions of animals a day in this country? Didn't we hunt our national animal nearly to the point of extinction?No, we nearly poluuted it to death. I don't think the US should assume the moral authority to condemn other nations for hunting.
The US didn't. Some dude and his wife did.

I cancelled my trip to Sweden because of Scandanavian retortfullness.

I'll be sure to let the Tourism Committee know - we've been looking for a way to discourage, shall we say, a certain element.

It wasn't meant to be exciting or refined. It was intended to point the finger directly at your hipocracy and it did.




And the fact that you value the life of some pedophile rapist means you have no morals. Not surprising for a gay guy.

Please make that the last one of those. Make an argument and leave your ad hominems at the door. Flaming, whether joking or not, is not appreciated.

Can you guarantee that nobody has ever been innocent that has been executed, because if not then your argument is soulless.

Gonna have to report this.
Why? Because I have the stones to point out his hipocracy? The guy generalizes the hell out of Americans but freaks out when someone does the same to gay people.

Please make that the last one of those. Make an argument and leave your ad hominems at the door. Flaming, whether joking or not, is not appreciated.

Can you guarantee that nobody has ever been innocent that has been executed, because if not then your argument is soulless.
Look at the post above yours and tell me why my argument with him isn't perfectly on point.

It wasn't meant to be exciting or refined. It was intended to point the finger directly at your hipocracy and it did.

I regret to tell you that your ability to point out hypocrisy is the same as your ability to spell it.

And the fact that you value the life of some pedophile rapist means you have no morals. Not surprising for a gay guy.

Yes, valuing life = immorality. If all immorality were like that, then I'd say bring on the debauchery. And isn't it cute how you think homophobia makes you look better? Honey, please.

Look at the post above yours and tell me why my argument with him isn't perfectly on point.

"He did it first, Mom."

Because whether you like him or not, he's not the only gay person on the forums. It's not on point. At all. You are equally guilty of generalizing when you try to argue that everyone put to death in our country is a baby-killing, child molester. You chose the worst example and act as if it's representative of the whole. If generalizing is so bad, stop doing it. And don't pretend like your generalization of death-row inmates was purposeful, you just don't realize when you're being a hypocrite.

Gonna have to report this.

No need. I can take my share of homophobia.

Because whether you like him or not, he's not the only gay person on the forums. It's not on point. At all. You are equally guilty of generalizing when you try to argue that everyone put to death in our country is a baby-killing, child molester. You chose the worst example and act as if it's representative of the whole. If generalizing is so bad, stop doing it. And don't pretend like your generalization of death-row inmates was purposeful, you just don't realize when you're being a hypocrite.

I was hoping he'd get it soon himself without having it spelt out like that.

I regret to tell you that your ability to point out hypocrisy is the same as your ability to spell it.



Yes, valuing life = immorality. If all immorality were like that, then I'd say bring on the debauchery. And isn't it cute how you think homophobia makes you look better? Honey, please.
I'm not homophobic. I'm not afraid of gay people. I think the constitution of the US does and should provide gay people with the same protections it provides everyone else. While I don't have any gay friends now, I have had many in the past. I find them to have the same virtues and flaws that people of any population have. Fact is I don't like you. It has nothing to do with you being gay. It's that you are a self righteous jerk who thinks he has a corner on morality. The fact is that I am arguing with you now not even because I disagree with you. I just think you're a hippo-crit and it's funny to me to see you continually prove it and it's funny to me that you are so bothered by me that you can't help but play the victim and keep replying.

"He did it first, Mom."He did. I was just responding to his generalizations. Read back and see for yourself.

Because whether you like him or not, he's not the only gay person on the forums. It's not on point. At all. You are equally guilty of generalizing when you try to argue that everyone put to death in our country is a baby-killing, child molester. You chose the worst example and act as if it's representative of the whole. If generalizing is so bad, stop doing it. And don't pretend like your generalization of death-row inmates was purposeful, you just don't realize when you're being a hypocrite.
I never said everyone who has been put to death was a baby raping pedophile. My argumenst about the death penalty have been very specific. My argument is that some people have commited crimes so heinous that I feel no moral compunctin about giving them the death penalty as a punishment, something you at one point agreed with. My argument with Fass, though, isn't about that. He said that all Americans value animal life over human life. My response is that I do not and that his generalizing about Americans is no better than someone generalizing about any group of people.

This further proves my convictions that celebrities need to stay the hell away from politics. I'll bet the couple are fans of the beatles. And you want to talk about animal slaughtering? At least the seals are hunted for their parts, unlike some American families who shoot innocent animals for fun! At least Canada's not bringing seals to extinction. Even the environmentalists are not making such a big noise about the seal hunting, what's their problem?

I'll be sure to let the Tourism Committee know - we've been looking for a way to discourage, shall we say, a certain element.

How did they miss you? ;)

I'm not homophobic. I'm not afraid of gay people.

But apparently you are of the English language. The suffix -phobia does not always mean what the word phobia means. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=-phobia)

I think the constitution of the US does and should provide gay people with the same protections it provides everyone else. While I don't have any gay friends now, I have had many in the past. I find them to have the same virtues and flaws that people of any population have.

"I have, or have had, a friend/acquaintance who is X. Therefore what I resorted to can't have possibly been Y."

Fact is I don't like you. It has nothing to do with you being gay. It's that you are a self righteous jerk who thinks he has a corner on morality. The fact is that I am arguing with you now not even because I disagree with you. I just think you're a hippo-crit and it's funny to me to see you continually prove it and it's funny to me that you are so bothered by me that you can't help but play the victim and keep replying.

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/sad021.gif

Gonna have to report this.

Nahh. Fass is more then capable to handle it himself.

How did they miss you? ;)

I was hiding under your dad. :p ;)

He did. I was just responding to his generalizations. Read back and see for yourself.

So? It doesn't justify your actions. At all. When are you going to learn that someone else's behavior doesn't excuse yours. You should be embarassed.

I never said everyone who has been put to death was a baby raping pedophile. My argumenst about the death penalty have been very specific. My argument is that some people have commited crimes so heinous that I feel no moral compunctin about giving them the death penalty as a punishment, something you at one point agreed with. My argument with Fass, though, isn't about that. He said that all Americans value animal life over human life. My response is that I do not and that his generalizing about Americans is no better than someone generalizing about any group of people.

The problem is in the current system you have no way of ensuring that all people who is convicted of those heinous crimes get the death penalty, which is how justice should work, and you have no way of ensuring that no one that didn't commit those heinous crimes doesn't. You use an example of someone who has far more evidence against them than the average death penalty defendent. You were generalizing and you can deny it all you like, but you are certainly the pot calling the kettle black. You're welcome to be a hypocrite, but you are not welcome to flame, flamebait and troll which you did. Not only is it against the rules, most posters, myself included, simply don't like it.

Did he say ALL? Where did he say ALL? Quote him or quite misrepresenting the truth.

I was hiding under your dad. :p ;)

:D

I always wondered where he disappeared.

+1 for the retort!

I'm not homophobic. I'm not afraid of gay people. I think the constitution of the US does and should provide gay people with the same protections it provides everyone else. While I don't have any gay friends now, I have had many in the past. I find them to have the same virtues and flaws that people of any population have. Fact is I don't like you. It has nothing to do with you being gay. It's that you are a self righteous jerk who thinks he has a corner on morality. The fact is that I am arguing with you now not even because I disagree with you. I just think you're a hippo-crit and it's funny to me to see you continually prove it and it's funny to me that you are so bothered by me that you can't help but play the victim and keep replying.

Your problem is that you'd prefer to use offensive generalizations in an argument rather than, oh, I don't know, make your argument in an intelligent way. That is what we object to.

And I don't care what your claims are, what you did is equivalent to the guy who shouts "******" every time he gets mad at a black driver who cuts him off, but says I'm not being racists, I just didn't like 'that guy'. Certain things are unacceptable. Using the fact that Fass is gay to annoy and piss him off is flamebaiting and possibly trolling. If you've got an argument, make it intelligently. If you can't do that, stop talking.

This further proves my convictions that celebrities need to stay the hell away from politics. I'll bet the couple are fans of the beatles.
To quote Eutrusca, "WTF? Over.":p

I was hiding under your dad. :p ;)
DAMN!

I'm sad to say this is my first exposure to the gay version of the time-honoured 'I was bangin' yo momma/wife/sister/daughter' line!

+1 for the retort!

Yours wasn't bad, either.

The problem is in the current system you have no way of ensuring that all people who is convicted of those heinous crimes get the death penalty, which is how justice should work, and you have no way of ensuring that no one that didn't commit those heinous crimes doesn't. You use an example of someone who has far more evidence against them than the average death penalty defendent. We've been there/done that.
You were generalizing and you can deny it all you like, but you are certainly the pot calling the kettle black. You're welcome to be a hypocrite, but you are not welcome to flame, flamebait and troll which you did. Not only is it against the rules, most posters, myself included, simply don't like it.

Did he say ALL? Where did he say ALL? Quote him or quite misrepresenting the truth.
Did I say all in the thread about illegal immigration? You called me a racist there and nowhere did I ever generalize about Hispanics in anyway close to this:
I forget how people raised in countries that have the death penalty have been taught to rationalise their behaviour to be able to cope living in such a low society.
He may nothave used the word "all" but it's pretty clear that he isn't pointing his finger at a few people who happen to be American, he's pointing it at all of us.

And I don't care what your claims are, what you did is equivalent to the guy who shouts "******" every time he gets mad at a black driver who cuts him off, but says I'm not being racists, I just didn't like 'that guy'. No, it's more akin to yelling "******" at someone who calls me a "pasty-faced peckerwood." But never yelling that word at any other black person for any other reason.

DAMN!

I'm sad to say this is my first exposure to the gay version of the time-honoured 'I was bangin' yo momma/wife/sister/daughter' line!

I must be slipping in my erosion of your heteronormativity if this is not only your first exposure to it, but that you'd imply I'd be the one banging.

Nothing like a bit of hyperbole. TA, this is my friend, reality. I know you've never met, but I thought I would introduce before you decide to post further.

There is nothing like a bit of hyperbole. It simultaneously stimulates debate and, well, it's a lot of fun...

And reality bites. Personally, I go for idealism. Ya know? It's where you wish the world could be a better place and work actively towards it. It's a bit like trying to climb out of a sewer rather than claiming it's the promised land.

Lets face it, in this modern media dominated world image is everything. Of course we can't take a deep look into every aspect of a nations policy, ideology and sociology. Bombarded with data, we are forced to generalise and in general America is becoming increasingly divorced from it's own humanity.

Why do I say this? Simple. America is perhaps the most terrifying example of the divisiveness caused by democracy. When people's rights are based upon their religion, sexuality, gender or race these abstract concepts become more important than shared humanity. And can you argue that it isn't so? Aren't people who differ from the norm in any of these areas roundly oppressed? I certainly see regular complaints to that effect in newspapers, books, journals and certainly on this website. Indeed, based upon how America portrays itself in the intellectual forum I'd be terrified of going there.

The execution of human beings, the treatment of foreigners overseas, abortion (good or bad, lets face it - deliberately terminating pregnancy isn't a very human instinct) slavery (cheap mexicans anyone?), the worship of weapons and making a dying human the centre of a media furor (a debate over principle? When she's lying there? Broadcasting her face over the news? I felt physically sick) oh yeah, America is awesome.

Is it Americas fault it ended up like this? Probably not. But if it perpetuates the myth of it's own perfection without recognising it's flaws, it is doing a great disservice to humanity as a whole.

This further proves my convictions that celebrities need to stay the hell away from politics.

Ahh what?

So what are the rules to be involved in politics?


I'll bet the couple are fans of the beatles.


Ahh what?


And you want to talk about animal slaughtering? At least the seals are hunted for their parts,

Ahh last I heard the majority of "parts" are the nice white pup fur for the fur industry. Sure there are some "correct" hunts for meat.


unlike some American families who shoot innocent animals for fun! At least Canada's not bringing seals to extinction.


Hmmm shooting an animal vs beating it to death?

All the hunters I know go for the meat.


Even the environmentalists are not making such a big noise about the seal hunting, what's their problem?

Guess you missed that nice Canadian group called the Sea Shepherd Society.

We've been there/done that.
Did I say all in the thread about illegal immigration? You called me a racist there and nowhere did I ever generalize about Hispanics in anyway close to this:

No, you chose to single them out, like you singled in on Fass being gay. Was Fass' sexuality on display here or a part of the topic? Nope. You singled him out as a gay man and pretended it was some kind of intellectual excercise to prove a point. All you proved is that when you look at Fass you see a gay man, not a poster make X point. Don't tell me you aren't inventive enough to make this point without singling out Fass' sexuality. If you were simply trying to make a point why not center in on the fact that he's not American, or that he's European, or that he's Swedish. No, instead you singled out his sexuality for no purpose than to be offensive in order to make a point. Forgive me while I scoff.

Fass was talking about Americans in a thread about *gasp* Americans. And yes the thread by necessity must be about Americans in general, because this was included in the response by the senator. He did not single out Americans like you did gays in this thread, Muslims in another thread and Mexicans in still another thread. The evidence against you is mounting.

And every time your excuse is - I have gay friends or a Muslim wife or I know some brown-skinned people. Knowing people of a particular class doesn't give you an excuse for disrespecting that class. Try this. Try actually not singling out minority classes over and over and you won't have to keep explaining to us how knowing people makes you not a racist, homophobe, xenophobe, whatever. You can stop defending your offensive generalizations and start arguing on point. How's that for a solution?

He may nothave used the word "all" but it's pretty clear that he isn't pointing his finger at a few people who happen to be American, he's pointing it at all of us.

So, in other words, he didn't single out Americans, he simply addressed the subject, and he didn't say ALL, but you decided to molest his statement into something it wasn't. Gotcha.

There is nothing like a bit of hyperbole. It simultaneously stimulates debate and, well, it's a lot of fun...

Some call it hyperbole, others call it trolling or just plain lying.

And reality bites. Personally, I go for idealism. Ya know? It's where you wish the world could be a better place and work actively towards it. It's a bit like trying to climb out of a sewer rather than claiming it's the promised land.

*snip*
Is intellectual honesty a part of your idealism?

No, it's more akin to yelling "******" at someone who calls me a "pasty-faced peckerwood." But never yelling that word at any other black person for any other reason.

Really? When did he bring up your sexuality? I must of missed it. Can you quote him please?

He didn't reference your pasty face, he reference your nationality. If it was akin to your example you would have generalized about people who aren't American or who are European or Swedish. You didn't. The only one who brought up sexuality as you. As I said, the evidence against you is mounting.

I must be slipping in my erosion of your heteronormativity if this is not only your first exposure to it, but that you'd imply I'd be the one banging. You are slipping....you haven't challenged my 'heteronormativity' at all lately, and I wasn't implying that you'd be doing the banging...but the insulting equivalent is not 'yo momma was banging me'...because that would intimate that the loud-mouthed heterosexual braggart was not the aggressor in the aforementioned situation. Your version would not be nearly as insulting were you the 'aggressor', as your version suggests that the father is indeed the one pursuing homosexual relationships, not simply being 'victim' to them. This of course would enrage the homophobic to the point where they would be rendered unconscious by their meteoric rise in blood pressure.

I was hiding under your dad. :p ;)

You win this thread and another thread of your choosing.

You win this thread and another thread of your choosing.
I frickin' love the randomness of General...how a thread on one topic can so quickly be about something else altogether.

So yeah. Cheese. Part of the Irish diet, or no? My dad isn't telling.

You are slipping....you haven't challenged my 'heteronormativity' at all lately, and I wasn't implying that you'd be doing the banging...but the insulting equivalent is not 'yo momma was banging me'...because that would intimate that the loud-mouthed heterosexual braggart was not the aggressor in the aforementioned situation. Your version would not be nearly as insulting were you the 'aggressor', as your version suggests that the father is indeed the one pursuing homosexual relationships, not simply being 'victim' to them. This of course would enrage the homophobic to the point where they would be rendered unconscious by their meteoric rise in blood pressure.

Thank you for that thorough analysis. If only that much thought had gone into my quip before I rendered it, I am sure I would have savoured it more.

No, you chose to single them out, like you singled in on Fass being gay.No matter how many times you try to say that it still isn't true. The report singled out illegal immigranst from South and Central America, not me. The media here singles them out as well. All of the media. You cannot find an article, news report or radio program dealing with illegal immigration that does not single out illegal immigration from South and Central America. Was Fass' sexuality on display here or a part of the topic? Nope. You singled him out as a gay man and pretended it was some kind of intellectual excercise to prove a point.I didn't pretend anything. It was exectly what it was. He was generalizing about Americans and I generalized about gays as a retort to show his hypocracy. that's exectly what it was. All you proved is that when you look at Fass you see a gay man, not a poster make X point. Don't tell me you aren't inventive enough to make this point without singling out Fass' sexuality. If you were simply trying to make a point why not center in on the fact that he's not American, or that he's European, or that he's Swedish.I actually was going to make the point about his being Swedish, but previous posts have made it clear to me that hsi sexuality is what he's more guarded about. But since you mentioned it, how come it's okay to do that? Why would that be better? No, instead you singled out his sexuality for no purpose than to be offensive in order to make a point. Forgive me while I scoff.You're forgiven.

Fass was talking about Americans in a thread about *gasp* Americans.And I was talking about Illegal immigrants from Latin America in a thread about *gasp* illegal immigrants from Latin America. And I was talking about Muslims in a thread about *gasp* Muslims.And yes the thread by necessity must be about Americans in general, because this was included in the response by the senator.And rather than saying, "Hey generalizing about an entire nation of people is wrong," you and especially fass, decided to run with it. What if it was a response letter to Muslims? Latin Americans? Gays? He did not single out Americans like you did gays in this thread, Muslims in another thread and Mexicans in still another thread.See above. The evidence against you is mounting.And yet you and now Fass seem to be the only ones who ever throw those accusations at me.

And every time your excuse is - I have gay friends or a Muslim wife or I know some brown-skinned people. Knowing people of a particular class doesn't give you an excuse for disrespecting that class.I don't have a Muslim wife. I have a persian fiance. I do not just "know" some brown skinned people, I count some "brown skinned people" amongst my best friends, one of which called you an idiot after reading that thread and said you're the racist, my vehemence aside, I do not think you're an idiot, I disagree with your stances on a lot of issues and I don't think you're a racist, just telling you what one of the "brown skinned" people I know said when he read your responses. The fact is that I do not decide wether I like a person or not based on their race, nationality or sexual preference. I like or dislike people based on their actions. Fact is, I don't even dislike you. You're a fun guy to debate with even though I know you probably don't feel the same way about me. Try this. Try actually not singling out minority classes over and over and you won't have to keep explaining to us how knowing people makes you not a racist, homophobe, xenophobe, whatever. You can stop defending your offensive generalizations and start arguing on point. How's that for a solution? How come it's okay to do that about Americans? Isn't that exactly what you said Fass did and that it's okay?



So, in other words, he didn't single out Americans, he simply addressed the subject, and he didn't say ALL, but you decided to molest his statement into something it wasn't. Gotcha.
If you were to take that quote and substitute any other class of people you'd be screaming bloody murder. Seriously. Try it.

Oh yea. We were long over due for a US sucks thread.

Have fun.
That's not the point of this thread. If you really feel that we're overdue, I can look into it for you later on... you know, complete with Tom Tomorrow comics, gunshot-smilies and' everything.

This thread is about stupid people getting figuratively drawn, quartered, and otherwise pwned by a smart woman who didn't sit back and take shit from short-sighted suburbanites.

Really? When did he bring up your sexuality? I must of missed it. Can you quote him please? No, he brought up my nationality. I am an American and am offended by people who generalize negatively about my people and my culture.

He didn't reference your pasty face, he reference your nationality. If it was akin to your example you would have generalized about people who aren't American or who are European or Swedish. You didn't. The only one who brought up sexuality as you. As I said, the evidence against you is mounting.
I've seen you flip out about generalizing about people's nationality. Why is it okay now?

No matter how many times you try to say that it still isn't true. The report singled out illegal immigranst from South and Central America, not me. The media here singles them out as well. All of the media. You cannot find an article, news report or radio program dealing with illegal immigration that does not single out illegal immigration from South and Central America. I didn't pretend anything. It was exectly what it was.
Whatever. You do realize this thread is about seal-hunting in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, a Canadian Senator who works in Ottawa, and a family from Minnesota, though right? You understand this thread doesn't have jack-shit to do with South or Central America, or immigration, whether legal or not, don't you?

Or do you just get off on hijacking threads and turning them into threads about you, Dan?

If you've got something to say about seals, the McLellans, Canadian Senators, or just about anything that could be considered 'on-topic', please have your say.

Otherwise, just get the fuck outta here, willya? Bloody egotists.

Thank you for that thorough analysis. If only that much thought had gone into my quip before I rendered it, I am sure I would have savoured it more.
It isn't about you, I thought you realised that. Most of what I go on about is for my own benefit. I'm just analysing my thought process and using you as an excuse to do so.

Edit: reading the post above, and agreeing with the sentiments, I will now attempt to pretend to be on topic.

This senator can't be removed, can she? It's kind of a "stack 'em when you can, but live with 'em until they die" type situation, isn't it?

No, he brought up my nationality. I am an American and am offended by people who generalize negatively about my people and my culture.


I've seen you flip out about generalizing about people's nationality. Why is it okay now?
Put down the boxcutters and make your way to the door marked 'exit', sir. Your particular form of self-indulgent hijackery is unwelcome in this thread.

It isn't about you, I thought you realised that. Most of what I go on about is for my own benefit. I'm just analysing my thought process and using you as an excuse to do so.

I'm not complaining. Your thoughts are fun to read.

No one cares about hunting deers or rabbits, I guess because they arn't cute enough to warrant international news stories everytime hunting season starts.

Hmmm sounds like the senator is trolling for attention.

Most liberals troll for attention as a daily practice. This one posted a nice big billboard over the head saying "Look at me".
What has got me mystified is when though did Canadian Senators learn to write?

ya so

killing baby seals

seems to me that the whole "ohmygod they kill those cute fuzzy little beasts with the great big black eyes" thing started the whole animal rights movement in the US.

didnt it? didnt most of us "grow up" on the notion that killing baby seals is the ultimate evil? not to mention that its wicked easy to pick on baby seal killers since they are killed in such a specific place and in such a massively bloody way.

no one in minnesota ever kills a baby seal and the stuff they kill in minnesota isnt all that cute. do they even have the death penalty in minnesota? i bet they dont. (i could be wrong) but in any case, they dont execute great big fuzzy white guys with huge black eyes. and if they did, it still wouldnt be cute, just creepy

what do they DO with baby seal fur these days and does anyone own anything made from baby seal fur?

What has got me mystified is when though did Canadian Senators learn to write?

The bigger question is, when did a normal family in the US?

Most liberals troll for attention as a daily practice. This one posted a nice big billboard over the head saying "Look at me".
What has got me mystified is when though did Canadian Senators learn to write?

Hmmmmm it's all the samething in the end.

Conservatives yabber on about family values to get attention.

Best thing to do is to ignore the senator.

The bigger question is, when did a normal family in the US?
No, the senator being able to write is the biggest question. We, supposedly, had a series of checks and balances that would ensure our Senators are illiterate.

No, the senator being able to write is the biggest question. We, supposedly, had a series of checks and balances that would ensure our Senators are illiterate.

Well it does say something about Canadian society having to combat literacy, compared to US society having to combat illiteracy. ;)

Well it does say something about Canadian society having to combat literacy, compared to US society having to combat illiteracy. ;)

I don't know. It seems as though some people in my nation fight against literacy every day.

Well it does say something about Canadian society having to combat literacy, compared to US society having to combat illiteracy. ;)
Haven't you heard the report? Literacy is eviller than Smoking, Commies, Nazis, and the Jewish Conspiracy all put together.

I don't know. It seems as though some people in my nation fight against literacy every day.

I'm just glad you live in Massachusetts, the home of Boston and higher learnin'. There's more to your lot than just a dead-sexy accent.

I'm just glad you live in Massachusetts, the home of Boston and higher learnin'. There's more to your lot than just a dead-sexy accent.

Aye. I'm glad I live in Massachusetts, too. Especially today, St. Patrick's Day. I think we have the largest Irish community outside of Ireland.

Especially today, St. Patrick's Day. I think we have the largest Irish community outside of Ireland.

Well, even the Sun has its spots.

Aye. I'm glad I live in Massachusetts, too. Especially today, St. Patrick's Day. I think we have the largest Irish community outside of Ireland.
So what if you have lots of Irish? Do they make your beer less weak or something?

So what if you have lots of Irish? Do they make your beer less weak or something?

Yes, actually. It also means the whole city will be one drunken party tonight.

Yes, actually. It also means the whole city will be one drunken party tonight.
We call that Wednesday.

EDIT: But then again I am in highschool and binge drinking is still cool.

We call that Wednesday.

EDIT: But then again I am in highschool and binge drinking is still cool.

Yeah. Most of us tend to outgrown that phase.

Yeah. Most of us tend to outgrown that phase.

Yeah.

>_>
<_<

Yeah.

>_>
<_<

Most of us have matured to the point where it's only cool to binge drink a few times a week, rather than every day.

Most of us have matured to the point where it's only cool to binge drink a few times a week, rather than every day.

Now you tell me.

Most of us have matured to the point where it's only cool to binge drink a few times a week, rather than every day.
Seven is a few.

Pwnt! Seriously, so much bellyaching over a couple of seals, but not a thought about their own government's killing of people. The death penalty in the US is much, much more a barbaric practice than killing a few seals.

so a lethal injuction is more barbaric than.... what? clubbing a seal on the head? or whatever it is they do to hunt seals?

I have no problem w/ either. Death to 'em all.

Seven is a few.

Yeah, but you binge drink twice on Saturday and skip Sunday since you've gotten older.

Seven is a few.

Well, no. You have to skip a few days and then just make up for it on the other days.

Now you tell me.

Sorry. If you're drinking every day, that's just ridiculous. I try to limit it to just six days a week. I'm not always successful, but I try.

Well, no. You have to skip a few days and then just make up for it on the other days.
If you are able to binge drink more than once in a day, you are not doing it correctly.

nice threadjack on the drinking :P

If you are able to binge drink more than once in a day, you are not doing it correctly.
Damn straight. Proper binge drinking should always result in sleep/unconsciousness followed by a killer hangover that must be treated with another binge.

If you are able to binge drink more than once in a day, you are not doing it correctly.

Only if you're a wussy!

If you are able to binge drink more than once in a day, you are not doing it correctly.

Why? What, do you pass out from drinking too much? Ha.

Why? What, do you pass out from drinking too much? Ha.
If you don't it's not a real drinking binge.

Damn straight. Proper binge drinking should always result in sleep/unconsciousness followed by a killer hangover that must be treated with another binge.

Who says that can't be accomplished all within the same 24 hour period?

If you don't it's not a real drinking binge.

I always thought puking was the sign of a binge. I guess I've been misinformed.

Oh you bunch of lying teetotalers, quit comparing penis lengths via binge drinking braggary.

Sorry. If you're drinking every day, that's just ridiculous. I try to limit it to just six days a week. I'm not always successful, but I try.

You'd be surprised how wine can make its way into most food items.

Oh you bunch of lying teetotalers, quit comparing penis lengths via binge drinking braggary.

Freud had something to say about you.

I always thought puking was the sign of a binge. I guess I've been misinformed.
Puking is just a way to prolong the binge by reducing the ammount of alcohol you're actually absorbing.

Seriously. I used to hang out with a guy who would make himself vomit so he could drink more without passing out. Now that's a true drunk.

Oh you bunch of lying teetotalers, quit comparing penis lengths via binge drinking braggary.

That's why I made the wussy comment. Wussy has to be said in a really high voice by the way.

And we all know that you have the biggest penis in the lot, Sin.

Puking is just a way to prolong the binge by reducing the ammount of alcohol you're actually absorbing.

Seriously. I used to hang out with a guy who would make himself vomit so he could drink more without passing out. Now that's a true drunk.

That's commitment. I usually just go to Denny's and enjoy the alcohol-absorbing goodness of the Denny's shit.

Does anyone else have Denny's where they're from, or is that a New England thing?

And we all know that you have the biggest penis in the lot, Sin.
And therefore no need to brag about it with bullshit stories of debaucheries I'm not longer interested in, or capable of.:cool:

Freud had something to say about you.
Yes. Sometimes a cigar is actually penis-envy. I brought some Cuban penis-envy back from my trip...want some?

And therefore no need to brag about it with bullshit stories of debaucheries I'm not longer interested in, or capable of.:cool:

See you next Tuesday! :P

Yes. Sometimes a cigar is actually penis-envy. I brought some Cuban penis-envy back from my trip...want some?

No, I've plenty already.

That's commitment. I usually just go to Denny's and enjoy the alcohol-absorbing goodness of the Denny's shit.

Does anyone else have Denny's where they're from, or is that a New England thing?

we have them here.... but i prefer IHOP.

See you next Tuesday! :P
Oh Fass...I'd have exposed the truth to you long ago, were I actually in possession of something that could inspire you to visit me in Canada.:(

nice threadjack on the drinking :P
You mean this thread had something serious in it at one time? I wouldn't know, the first page that has one of my posts is the first page I read.:p

That's commitment. I usually just go to Denny's and enjoy the alcohol-absorbing goodness of the Denny's shit.

Does anyone else have Denny's where they're from, or is that a New England thing?
I dunno, I've never seen a Denny's before. I would just go to McDick's so I get food poisoning and throw-up.

Oh Fass...I'd have exposed the truth to you long ago, were I actually in possession of something that could inspire you to visit me in Canada.:(

You've a husband. Your people are supposed to be sneaky devils.

You've a husband. Your people are supposed to be sneaky devils.
My people? And why didn't I think of that?

My people?

Yeah, inuits or whatever. All wily with their little icey-sculptey hands.

And why didn't I think of that?

As I said, I've been lax in eroding your respect for heterosexual institutions.

we have them here.... but i prefer IHOP.

Yeah, me too, but the IHOPs around here aren't open at 3am. Denny's is.

I dunno, I've never seen a Denny's before. I would just go to McDick's so I get food poisoning and throw-up.

See, Denny's is good because it doesn't get you ill. You eat it and it absorbs all the liquor in your body, sobering you up. Then, like a half hour later, you put your toilet through therapy, and go to sleep. No hangover the next morning.

Yeah, me too, but the IHOPs around here aren't open at 3am. Denny's is.
Nothing like Dennys when you're coming down off of some acid, stoned as hell, it's 2:30 am and you're not planning on sleeping any time soon.

Don't we kill millions of animals a day in this country? Didn't we hunt our national animal nearly to the point of extinction? I don't think the US should assume the moral authority to condemn other nations for hunting.
It was one family. Those that agree with them number only in the millions, a drop in the bucket in this country.
I for one am all for clubbing baby seals. Hell, if it wasn’t so cold up there, I’d do it.

I just have a few coments. One why does she seem to assume that this family supports those things she mentioned in regardes to the US? I mean its quite possible that they advocate or at least opose those practices as well as the one they wrote to Canada about. Secondly why do they still club the seals wouldn't it be quicker and more humane to shoot them?

It was one family. Those that agree with them number only in the millions, a drop in the bucket in this country.
I for one am all for clubbing baby seals. Hell, if it wasn’t so cold up there, I’d do it.

I was more referring to the people posting in this thread that agreed with the family, in theory.

I just have a few coments. One why does she seem to assume that this family supports those things she mentioned in regardes to the US? I mean its quite possible that they advocate or at least opose those practices as well as the one they wrote to Canada about. Secondly why do they still club the seals wouldn't it be quicker and more humane to shoot them?

To preserve the pelt. Shooting puts a hole in it.

Yeah, inuits or whatever. All wily with their little icey-sculptey hands. *refrains*
As I said, I've been lax in eroding your respect for heterosexual institutions.
Oh, don't worry...my respect is already eroded to the point of non-existance...I just hadn't considered pimping my husband out so I could at least get an eyeful of your naked flesh. Call me innocent...not heterosexual:)

To preserve the pelt. Shooting puts a hole in it.
Guess that makes sense.

Secondly why do they still club the seals wouldn't it be quicker and more humane to shoot them?
It ruins the fur.

Damn. Beat to it.

See, Denny's is good because it doesn't get you ill. You eat it and it absorbs all the liquor in your body, sobering you up. Then, like a half hour later, you put your toilet through therapy, and go to sleep. No hangover the next morning.
Well part of that is location. McDick's and Subway are the only resturants in my town, so I would have to walk to the next town over. Its not that far of a walk since my town is basically just another part of the other town, but it is still about an hour to walk, along a highway. There is alot of traffic at 19:00, too.

I just have a few coments. One why does she seem to assume that this family supports those things she mentioned in regardes to the US? I mean its quite possible that they advocate or at least opose those practices as well as the one they wrote to Canada about.

So, they get so upset about those animals in Canada that they cancel their trips there, but when it's about people in the US, they get so upset, they what, just continue on living there?

Secondly why do they still club the seals wouldn't it be quicker and more humane to shoot them?

The pelt is used afterwards. It may be a hunt to keep the population down, but it would be plain old stupid to just throw it away. Not to mention that many aboriginals hunt without guns.

Not to mention that many aboriginals hunt without guns.
Though most inuit don't hunt baby seals...they go for the grown ones.

I just have a few coments. One why does she seem to assume that this family supports those things she mentioned in regardes to the US? I mean its quite possible that they advocate or at least opose those practices as well as the one they wrote to Canada about. Secondly why do they still club the seals wouldn't it be quicker and more humane to shoot them?
We club them because it makes us look bad, making it a juicier media story.

So, they get so upset about those animals in Canada that they cancel their trips there, but when it's about people in the US, they get so upset, they what, just continue on living there?
So they're suppose to move out instead of staying and trying to fix the problems they see?



The pelt is used afterwards. It may be a hunt to keep the population down, but it would be plain old stupid to just throw it away. Not to mention that many aboriginals hunt without guns.
Yeah, I can understand that better than leaving it to rot. Athough I hope they don't just take the pelt, but use the rest as well.

Though most inuit don't hunt baby seals...they go for the grown ones.

Too bad, when one finally gets use for the saying "so cute I could kill it," they let the opportunity just pass them by.

*refrains*

At least I didn't use eskimo.

Oh, don't worry...my respect is already eroded to the point of non-existance...I just hadn't considered pimping my husband out so I could at least get an eyeful of your naked flesh. Call me innocent...not heterosexual:)

"Naked flesh." You sure do know how to entice a guy.

I was more referring to the people posting in this thread that agreed with the family, in theory.
Ahh.
Calling them hypocrites might be going a bit too far, though.

Americans long ago lost control over their government. Most of us are just mindless sheep now. We don’t know any better, really.

Yeah, I can understand that better than leaving it to rot. Athough I hope they don't just take the pelt, but use the rest as well.
Seal meat is eaten.

So they're suppose to move out instead of staying and trying to fix the problems they see?

Apparantly, since going to Canada and doing something about the "problem" there is just too damn hard.

Yeah, I can understand that better than leaving it to rot. Athough I hope they don't just take the pelt, but use the rest as well.

Oh, I can think of a few uses for the meat, and I guess the blubber is used for something, too.

Locked for pages of flamebait and off-topicness. If the forum worked properly I would have split the irrelevant discussion, but at things are, the forum formatting is so b0rked for me, I couldn't find my own arse if I had a bookmark. Feel free to restart the original debate if you wish.