NationStates Jolt Archive

(The musical genre - no smartarses please, because it happens with every thread that mentions metal. The joke is old and it wasn't really funny the first time.)

Metalheads and detractors alike...what defines "metal"? What qualities and features do you deem essential for a band or song to be classified as such? There are mixed opinions of it, and I wanna hear them. Just because.

*insert smartass joke here*

*insert smartass joke here*

*KILLS*

*WITH STICK*

*IN THE BUTT*

Isn't it odd that this very specific topic, like a forum-phoenix, rises again every month or two? It's so weird.:confused:

(The musical genre - no smartarses please, because it happens with every thread that mentions metal. The joke is old and it wasn't really funny the first time.)

Metalheads and detractors alike...what defines "metal"? What qualities and features do you deem essential for a band or song to be classified as such? There are mixed opinions of it, and I wanna hear them. Just because.

type of music characterized by it's cacophonous wall of sound and accelerated tempo which is achieved through distorted electric guitars playing fast-paced riffs, with the driving drumbeat often utilizing hypersonic double bass rhythms and emphasizing the continuous pumping action, the bass guitar is often playing similar to the guitar, but more with the drums, so as to add to the overall heavyness and depth. It can manifest in many different forms and the spectrum of intensity is usually quite varied. From slow and heavy melodic grooves, to complex and precise blinding rhythms, odd time changes, and sheer brutality.. metal comes in many shapes and sizes. One common trait of metal is to have vocals dealing with dark subject matter, often sung with anger, aggression, and conviction in the form of screaming. Melodic smooth vocals are also accepted. Solos are an integral part of metal music, as the icing on the cake to complement the heavy intensity of the songs and add more depth and individuality. Real metal has a solo in every song, usually scales and arpeggios played with some changes often in 8th, 16th, or 32nd notes..if only a few quick licks. Metal is progressive and dynamic, and usually provokes feelings that are therapeutic to the listener. Metal is rock music that has evolved.
QED

*KILLS*

*WITH STICK*

*IN THE BUTT*

Ooooh! I do so love Kanabia when he gets kinky...

Isn't it odd that this very specific topic, like a forum-phoenix, rises again every month or two? It's so weird.:confused:

Sorry, but I dont remember the last one, and even if I did, gravedigging it would get a modslap.

QED

So it's characterised by an "accelerated tempo which is achieved through distorted electric guitars playing fast-paced riffs" but can also have "slow and heavy melodic grooves" - huh? The lyrics must have dark subject matter and there must be a solo in every song. I'm not sure that's completely accurate. Any other views?

Sorry, but I dont remember the last one, and even if I did, gravedigging it would get a modslap.



So it's characterised by an "accelerated tempo which is achieved through distorted electric guitars playing fast-paced riffs" but can also have "slow and heavy melodic grooves" - huh? The lyrics must have dark subject matter and there must be a solo in every song. I'm not sure that's completely accurate. Any other views?
Don't ask me. I don't listen to that stuff. I just quoted Urban Dictionary.

Ooooh! I do so love Kanabia when he gets kinky...

Of course. It's impossible not to. *twists the stick*

Sorry, but I dont remember the last one, and even if I did, gravedigging it would get a modslap.

Oh it's not an indictment of you personally. I just find it curious that the topic recurrs.

I mean a definion of Metal music? It's no Abortion debate or Capitalist v Communist thing, but it comes back every now and again. Vraiment etrange, a mon avis.

i'm not sure there really is a definition that encompasses the entire genre... jethro tull(almost a folk band) won a metal grammy and journey and styx(wuss rock) were considered metal in the early 80s... alot of early metal is just distorted blues, but once you consider death metal and math metal and metalcore, then prog metal and some hard southern rock, then finally throw in ulver... i don't know what it all means.

Of course. It's impossible not to. *twists the stick*

Ohhhh!

We should do this more often.

(The musical genre - no smartarses please, because it happens with every thread that mentions metal. The joke is old and it wasn't really funny the first time.).
I'm still going to say it:
Anything heavier than helium.

Oh it's not an indictment of you personally. I just find it curious that the topic recurrs.

I mean a definion of Metal music? It's no Abortion debate or Capitalist v Communist thing, but it comes back every now and again. Vraiment etrange, a mon avis.

Eh, there's only so many music topics you can churn out before you turn a full circle I guess. :p

i'm not sure there really is a definition that encompasses the entire genre... jethro tull(almost a folk band) won a metal grammy and journey and styx(wuss rock) were considered metal in the early 80s... alot of early metal is just distorted blues, but once you consider death metal and math metal and metalcore, then prog metal and some hard southern rock, then finally throw in ulver... i don't know what it all means.

Yeah. I'm more curious about what metal "isn't" rather than what it is - certain bands trigger a violent reaction among some metalheads when someone refers to them as "metal".

I'm still going to say it:
Anything heavier than helium.

And it's still not funny. Are you satisfied, or do you simply want a stick-rape too?

:p

And it's still not funny. Are you satisfied, or do you simply want a stick-rape too?

:p

I'm the only one that gets a stick!

MY STICK!

what defines "metal"?

AC/DC

Everything else is based on them ... even those who came before them. :D

AC/DC

Everything else is based on them ... even those who came before them. :D
and they only really have three different songs

and they only really have three different songs
At least they're not as bad as Nirvana. All of Nirvana's songs sound the same. And that one tune sucks.

*hides in case his girlfriend somehow saw that*

At least they're not as bad as Nirvana. All of Nirvana's songs sound the same. And that one tune sucks.

*hides in case his girlfriend somehow saw that* well except for the one killing joke sued them for stealing

At least they're not as bad as Nirvana. All of Nirvana's songs sound the same. And that one tune sucks.

*hides in case his girlfriend somehow saw that*

BS, all of their albums sound different. In Utero doesn't even have a tune (hehe, but that's why I love it :D)

and they only really have three different songs

Well, duh ... it's Rock ... not Mozart.

Well, duh ... it's Rock ... not Mozart.

Less of a difference then you might think. People give Mozart too much credit and some of the more technical rock far too little.

As for metal?

I don't think it is one musically identifiable genre any more. I think that it's subgenre's have all come into their own, and have "speciated" into their own, identifiable genres. You rarely see people who listen to more than one or two of the "sub"-genres of metal.

I honestly cannot put Sonata Actica next to Metalica, next to Nirvana, and say that they belong to the same genre anymore.

You rarely see people who listen to more than one or two of the "sub"-genres of metal.

True enough I guess...i'm pretty open with my tastes, but I do have a particular fondness for doom and stoner stuff...but I have been told that stoner metal is not metal, and is in fact rock. Hence this thread.


I honestly cannot put Sonata Actica next to Metalica, next to Nirvana, and say that they belong to the same genre anymore.

Since when were Nirvana metal? :p

To me, Metal music is defined by a certain "Je ne sais quoi" that says to me:

"My ead!, My ead! She is a banging now! - Sacre Bleu! That riff is vibrating my prostate!"

more melodic and sometimes harmonic guitar riffs but with distortion, heavy bass tones, rapid drum beats, dark subject matter (usually), and the all important "breakdown"

more melodic and sometimes harmonic guitar riffs but with distortion, heavy bass tones, rapid drum beats, dark subject matter (usually), and the all important "breakdown"

do you agree, that Death-Metal does not fit to your description??

do you agree, that Death-Metal does not fit to your description??
in some ways, it is the perfect example of it, in others it is completely contradictory...

I hate the overclassification of Metal these days.

Doom metal
Black Metal
Thrash metal
whatever.

Metal has to have 3 things.

Heavy-ass distortion on the guitars.
a solid driving rythmn section
a drummer that isnt afraid to hit his drums, like they owe him money.

Thats it.

Heres a suggestion:

If it sounds even remotely like Sabbath, your doing it right.

AC/DC

Everything else is based on them ... even those who came before them. :D
Like Black Sabbath?

Check this link out for balls out metal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg8rZZNGHko


sorry it does not answer the question but man what a pit!!

Since when were Nirvana metal? :p

Well, when half of the influence on a band is metal, I'd say they had as much qualifiable "metal"-ness as does a band like Metallica. Althuogh technically speaking, Grunge resembles nothing identifiable, with some traits that go back to Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult (but that could be Via Black Flag), and some very unique elements.

Anything heavier than helium.Oxygen is metal?

Metal has to have 3 things.

Heavy-ass distortion on the guitars.
a solid driving rythmn section
a drummer that isnt afraid to hit his drums, like they owe him money.Does this mean that power metal isn't metal, as the guitars usually aren't distorted?

Oxygen is metal?

Does this mean that power metal isn't metal, as the guitars usually aren't distorted?


Have I mentioned my intense dislike for the over-classification of modern metal?

Give me a common example...

Have I mentioned my intense dislike for the over-classification of modern metal?

Give me a common example...Rhapsody.

Rhapsody.


Heh..ok gimme a few more.
Not familair with them.

But, I suppose when I think power metal, I think something Judas Priest-esque, but newer.

Heh..ok gimme a few more.
Not familair with them.

But, I suppose when I think power metal, I think something Judas Priest-esque, but newer.Blind Guardian. I'm pretty sure Sonata Arctica, Therion, and Ancient Rites are also distortion-free.

Some Iron Maiden, too.

Blind Guardian. I'm pretty sure Sonata Arctica, Therion, and Ancient Rites are also distortion-free.

Some Iron Maiden, too.

Ahh..ok.

These guys all use distortion of some kind.
Just not the bone-crushingly heavy Sabbath-esque kind.

Although I dont know about Therion and Ancient Rites. Ive heard OF THEM, but have never checked out any of thier stuff.

But, as for the question, yeah, its metal.

Metal guitar doesnt have to have crushingly heavy distortion, perhaps I mispoke, but open clean channel playing is usually rare, when you hear that..it tends to sound like Jethro Tull, and as we all know....Jethro Tull....NOT METAL.
Most often in power metal, its effects and choruses, and lots of reverb.

metal... emphasis on aggression and guitars *shrugs*

there's too much difference inside the overarching genre of 'metal' to be much more specific than that (though of course 'aggression' is subjective... i wouldn't call Alice In Chains too aggressive, say)

metal... emphasis on aggression and guitars *shrugs*

there's too much difference inside the overarching genre of 'metal' to be much more specific than that (though of course 'aggression' is subjective... i wouldn't call Alice In Chains too aggressive, say)


I wouldnt call Black Sabbath particularly aggressive either, but I would certainly call them metal.
In fact, I would call them metal, before anyone else.

I wouldnt call Black Sabbath particularly aggressive either, but I would certainly call them metal.
In fact, I would call them metal, before anyone else.
i would call Pantera 'metal' before anyone else, non-chronologically speaking... though you're right.

so its just a music type with an emphasis on (usually) distorted guitars then?

i would call Pantera 'metal' before anyone else, non-chronologically speaking... though you're right.

so its just a music type with an emphasis on (usually) distorted guitars then?

No.

I wouldnt say that, really.

Its an attitude.

Thats why I hate over-classifying it.
Its all about feel to me.

I wouldnt call the Who a metal band, but I would absoluelty call thier cover of "Young Man Blues" on "Live at Leeds" metal.
Balls out pace, screaming vocals, high energy, and crushing guitar tone...

I may even say that that was the first heavy metal song recorded.

Its an attitude.

but that attitude changes so much within what 'metal' is. that would declassify so many obviously metal bands as non-metal (what i was saying about AIC above).

perhaps just trying to classify it is silly...

Well, duh ... it's Rock ... not Mozart.

Yeah, really. I can name one thing metal most certainly isn't, but I won't for fear of starting a flamewar.
It isn't nearly as sophisticated as classical.
Of course, I'm not too familiar with metal, so I really don't know many more details about it.

Snobbishness should not be passed off as expertise. The fact is that the quality of music is subjective. It's pointless saying that one kind is better than others. However, there are objective qualities other than good/bad that can be talked about.

Tune it low, play it slow...

Heavy metal, in a nutshell, is like hard rock, only the guitars are distorted and the bass and drums pound harder. If the genre had a pioneer, I'd say it was Led Zeppelin (probably the best of their kind) although Black Sabbath set the blueprint for how NWBHM, thrash, alt metal, stoner metal and extreme metal would sound (Sabbath are often the only non-death metal band that isn't "gay" for death metal fans to listen to). Basically, anything that can be described by some people as "metal" without the "heavy" is pretty much a part of the legacy of Black Sabbath. The likes of Aerosmith and AC/DC are more Led Zeppelin's handywork.

(The musical genre - no smartarses please, because it happens with every thread that mentions metal. The joke is old and it wasn't really funny the first time.)

Metalheads and detractors alike...what defines "metal"? What qualities and features do you deem essential for a band or song to be classified as such? There are mixed opinions of it, and I wanna hear them. Just because.

Lack of musical inspiration, patchy understanding of melody, and hidebound conservative fixation with a sexually moronic genre that had it's best moments 30 years ago and hasn't had a decent and/or innovative song produced in it since the first Faith No More album in - i think - 87.

Not that i dislike metal or anything ;)

Noisy, cacaphonous, difficult to listen to, embarassingly dumb lyrics.

Ahh..ok.

These guys all use distortion of some kind.
Just not the bone-crushingly heavy Sabbath-esque kind.

Although I dont know about Therion and Ancient Rites. Ive heard OF THEM, but have never checked out any of thier stuff.

But, as for the question, yeah, its metal.

Metal guitar doesnt have to have crushingly heavy distortion, perhaps I mispoke, but open clean channel playing is usually rare, when you hear that..it tends to sound like Jethro Tull, and as we all know....Jethro Tull....NOT METAL.
Most often in power metal, its effects and choruses, and lots of reverb.Okay, I can live with that...perhaps there is some kind of distortion, but it isn't distortion in the way Sonic Youth or Napalm Death would use it.

Yes, I too need to expand my power metal collection.

The question isn't what defines Metal, it's who defines Metal. Refused Party Program defines Metal.

That is all.

I'm still going to say it:
Anything heavier than helium.
Almost everything is heavier than helium.

Almost everything is heavier than helium.


Stryper isnt heavier than helium.

Stryper isnt heavier than helium.

Stryper ON helium would have been great to listen to. Mind you, i always thought porn movies would have been vastly improved if all the cast had been forced to ingest helium before each penetration.

Stryper ON helium would have been great to listen to. Mind you, i always thought porn movies would have been vastly improved if all the cast had been forced to ingest helium before each penetration.


NO.

Then it would sound like the Lollipop Guild from The Wizard of Oz having crazy porn-sex.

OH MY GOD IM PICTURING IT RIGHT NOW!

AAAHHHH!!!

NO.

Then it would sound like the Lollipop Guild from The Wizard of Oz having crazy porn-sex.

OH MY GOD IM PICTURING IT RIGHT NOW!

AAAHHHH!!!

Precisely.

Doesn't that turn you on? Weirdo :)

Precisely.

Doesn't that turn you on? Weirdo :)


Are you kidding?

I may never get an erection again!

Metal is hard.
It makes you want to anally stick rape something, other than metal, because you love metal and metal loves you.
Until the love stops and the metal love that you once had is anally stick raped by a new found metal love.
Then, the old metal love is abandoned into someother element of the music table. Like nobel gases, where it can never love again.
What it really ends up being is whoever is the most successful anal stick raper.
That's metal. Its very hard.*

*Rinse and repeat throughout life whenever deemed neccessary.