NationStates Jolt Archive

As I am not as knowledgeable about political situations and whatnot as I'd like to be, I've got some questions:

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?

2. Why or why not should be create a universal health care system?

3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?

Thanks in advance.

...

Um...would it help if I added please?

See, no one likes to defend their positions, or offer any constructive ideas.

People only like to bich about how wrong the other people are.

Well they're each huge questions in themselves. How much depth do you want? Are you just wanting theoretical answers of whether what a state should do with regards to those questions or do you want country specific answers? What are you views of human nature, as affect the answers as well? What are you general economic views as they will affect the answers as well.

As I am not as knowledgeable about political situations and whatnot as I'd like to be, I've got some questions:

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?


The pro argument breaks down something along the lines of:

"Because we labor, we are entitled to the full product of our labor. In this system, that means dollars. Social Security deprives us of the full product of our labor, because it taxes us whether we want to be involved in the system or not. Moreover, Social Security would produce less net wealth than the same amount of money invested in the private sector over the same time. Therefore, Social Security is unjust and ought to be privatized."

The anti argument goes something like this:

"In any system, there will be people who, whether by bad fortune or not having the skills requisite to win in the system they are in, end up losing or being disadvantaged. Nevertheless, a just social order is one that ensures that all people meet a minimum standard of livelihood. As such, any just social order is one that ensures those who lose are still able to live. Social Security is one policy that does just that, because it ensures that no matter your skill or luck in the market, how well the economy works, or what job you get, you will always meet a minimum standard of living when you are no longer able to labor."

I tend to be on the anti side myself, but that's me.

It's going to take me too long to do the other two, so I'll leave it to others.

See, no one likes to defend their positions, or offer any constructive ideas.

People only like to bich about how wrong the other people are.Well it takes a lot of time an effort to put forward an idea, whereas it can take seconds to demolish an idea. I spend enough time defending my positions in my essays, I come here to relax and not to have indepth dicussions on government policy. Well not usually.

See, no one likes to defend their positions, or offer any constructive ideas.

People only like to bich about how wrong the other people are.
Ummm... I don't see you contributing anything.
Me neither, but I just come here to bash right-wingers.

Well they're each huge questions in themselves. How much depth do you want? Are you just wanting theoretical answers of whether what a state should do with regards to those questions or do you want country specific answers? What are you views of human nature, as affect the answers as well? What are you general economic views as they will affect the answers as well.
Well, U.S. specific answers, really. As for how in-depth, I believe Xenophobialand's post should suffice, more or less.

Xenophobialand: Interesting. Thank you, although it hasn't helped me decide which side of the argument I fall on. ~_~

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?
A big question. I would say that in the US, the case for it is pretty weak. It'll last for decades (which is much more than can be said for some systems in Europe), there are plenty of kids and immigrants to keep paying. And even if money starts to eventually run out, it will not be a catastrophe.
While I think that every smart person will also put something away for himself privately, I don't think the case for complete privatisation is anything but ideology.
Also read Paul Krugman's columns regarding that.

2. Why or why not should be create a universal health care system?
"Universal" as in "everything should have access to health care"? Of course.
It's the price where things get a little iffy.
My views can be found in the DSP's manifesto right now, here.

3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?
It's essentially the best investment a government can make. There is such a clear and well-established relationship between spending on education and future economic growth, it's a miracle how governments don't react. Probably because young people don't vote.
That being said, the US already spends huge amounts, but they just seem to spend them in the wrong areas. If you want to see how to run a good education system, check out Finland.

Moreover, Social Security would produce less net wealth than the same amount of money invested in the private sector over the same time.Well there's also economic theory that suggests that the 'poor' are more effective consumers and thus the money more quickly circulates than if it were left to investors and there 'arbitary' decisions of what is best to invest in.

Ummm... I don't see you contributing anything.
Me neither, but I just come here to bash right-wingers.

Of course not! I do not exclude myself.

1. Privatization is too costly and is unnecessary if we implement some basic reforms; honestly, Social Security will probably become irrelevant in a few decades once the boomers get through the system because younger workers don't want it.

I'd rather take that money and put it in to a retirement account that gets 4 or 5 times the rate of return of SS than to waste money on that POS...and that sentiment is increasingly common amongst younger workers; I only oppose privatization because I don't want to waste anymore money on it than necessary.

2. A national health insurance program would be a better idea, because it leaves the private sector alone but still allows the disadvantaged to get healthcare. Public healthcare, with the price controls and other cost controls a necessity, would inevitable lead to shortages, funding crises, and massive inefficencies due to the cost of maintaining the cost controls and keeping the system supplied and staffed. National health insurance is a much better plan.

3. Education's problems have nothing to do with funding; they have to do with administrative incompetence, wastefulness, inefficent allocation of funds, too-powerful teachers' unions, and the inability of government to design a means of measuring progress without resorting to grade inflation. Not to mention a decline in discipline standards to boot. Spending more money will do absolutely nothing to improve it without addressing the problems.

As I am not as knowledgeable about political situations and whatnot as I'd like to be, I've got some questions:
here are my 30 second answers:


1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?

social security is always in jeopardy. its a kind of shell game where we pretend we are saving money for the future but its really a pay-as-you-go-plus-extra system. its going to need some serious working on in the future but privatizing it takes the money out of the system that would be used to pay the people who are now collecting.

SO, if we "privatize" it, where do we get the money to pay for current retirees? without answering that in a satisfactory manner, there is no sense making such a huge change


2. Why or why not should be create a universal health care system?

universal health care would mean rationing health care in the future in order to control costs.

i have recently realized that to be in the medical field you have to be very hard hearted. you have to be willing to deny people payments for treatments that could save their lives in order to save your company money. there is just no way that a government system which would be subject to the whims of political influence could be hard hearted enough to keep costs down.

plus.... canada seems to be running towards a crisis in its health care system. i think the US should wait to see if canada can get through it before we decide to make big changes that might send us down the same road to (potential) ruin.


3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?


yes it is but it has to be a personal and family priority too, not just a government priority.

it seems folly to me to think that the federal government can micromanage local schools through making nationwide rules. things need to change but laws like no-child-left-behind encourage districts to cheat the system rather than improve teaching methods.

As I am not as knowledgeable about political situations and whatnot as I'd like to be, I've got some questions:

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?

2. Why or why not should we create a universal health care system?

3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?

Thanks in advance.
I'll give it a shot, although these are highly complicated subjects:

1. Something must be done to salvage Social Security. With the "baby boomer" bulge already entering the system, the chances that it will go belly up and die a natural death increase on an almost hourly basis. There are a number of people who say that the only way to save the system is to privatize it, while this is anathama to others. What it boils down to is, do we trust the public sector more, or do we trust the private sector more, to effectively manage the system in such a way that people have something with which to retire.

2. Perceptions of what constitues "fairness." Should ability to pay determine whether people recieve effective health care or not? I'm not going to go into all the whys and wherefores of this because it's simply far too complicated. Just follow the money and you'll understand why this is such a contentious issue.

3. Lots of people give lip service to education being a "national priority," but there are lots and lots of vested interests who stand to make ( or lose! ) a ton of money depending upon what the nation decides to do about education. My personal take on this is that we should immediately create a national council on education composed of educators with a proven track record, and then implement what they suggest. The likelihood of this happening approaches zero as a limit.

Eutrusca, I must agree with your idea regarding education. As a student, I see far too often how most students simply do not care about their education. Whatever it is that causes this, it needs to be changed. Education is THE key to a healthy society. All else comes as a result of one's education.

Eutrusca, I must agree with your idea regarding education. As a student, I see far too often how most students simply do not care about their education. Whatever it is that causes this, it needs to be changed. Education is THE key to a healthy society. All else comes as a result of one's education.
What usually causes that is a lack of parental interest in properly motivating their children. I may have been a bit too strict when mine were in school, but they either got motivated or got their butts kicked. Heh!

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?

Because the government has proven time and time again that they are horrible stewards of people's money. At the very least a privatized program should be optional, and people who don't want it privatized can still use a gov't system. Our current social security system is a train wreck, though yeah. Major reform is needed.


2. Why or why not should be create a universal health care system?

Privatized healthcare is more viable, imo, but there should be some basic things that everyone has access to, i.e. medicare, medicaid, etc.

3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?

I think its a fairly big priority already, yes.

See, no one likes to defend their positions, or offer any constructive ideas.

People only like to bich about how wrong the other people are.
Or put out what they know are unpopular opinions, that will serve no constructive purpose nor will generate responses aside from pages of the intellectual equivalent of " :upyours: " or be told it directly.

1. Why or why not should we privatize Social Security?

SS was formed because the stock market failed. Privatization FAILED. This caused the old people to stay in the work force. This meant that young people had no jobs. Until the young were shipped off to WW2 the depression went on.

If the old did not retire today, the young would be in a worse fix because there are so many more old in proportion to young. And the old are healthier so they would hold jobs even longer.

2. Why or why not should be create a universal health care system?

This is a tough one. If this were a Christian nation the answer would be obvious. But since we are a nation that picks and chooses scripture, and the most "Christian" don't give a d--- about their neighbors......

I remember when hospitals were owned by churches and everyone got treatment. Churches decided they didn't want to donate to the poor and outcast. Now hospitals are profit making. In that situation money talks. No money dies. That is the American way.

I'm not advocating government. I think religion needs to get back to it's real mission.

3. Is education a big priority like it should be? If not, why?
Education is wealth. the problem is it isn't instant wealth. The MBA's want quarterly (maybe even daily) return on investment. This is why we open the southern gates to provide competition for the poorest of the poor. Thereby driving down the minimum wage, thereby making instant profit.

At the same time we export intelligence and education to India, China, and other competitors. It just doesn't pay instantly, and we sure don't want more competition for the richest of the rich. Might drive down their pay.

1. Privatization is too costly and is unnecessary if we implement some basic reforms; honestly, Social Security will probably become irrelevant in a few decades once the boomers get through the system because younger workers don't want it.

I'd rather take that money and put it in to a retirement account that gets 4 or 5 times the rate of return of SS than to waste money on that POS...and that sentiment is increasingly common amongst younger workers; I only oppose privatization because I don't want to waste anymore money on it than necessary.

2. A national health insurance program would be a better idea, because it leaves the private sector alone but still allows the disadvantaged to get healthcare. Public healthcare, with the price controls and other cost controls a necessity, would inevitable lead to shortages, funding crises, and massive inefficencies due to the cost of maintaining the cost controls and keeping the system supplied and staffed. National health insurance is a much better plan.

3. Education's problems have nothing to do with funding; they have to do with administrative incompetence, wastefulness, inefficent allocation of funds, too-powerful teachers' unions, and the inability of government to design a means of measuring progress without resorting to grade inflation. Not to mention a decline in discipline standards to boot. Spending more money will do absolutely nothing to improve it without addressing the problems.
Yeah. On all three.

Another thing to consider about social security is that it is not just for the eldery, but also for the disabled. If we privatized it, we would have to develop and fund a whole new program for the disabled. Everyone plans to retire, but no one plans to become disabled. What would become of a person who becomes disabled after only working five or ten years? If he had to rely soley on the tiny amount he had been able put into retirement up to that point, he and his family woudl be royally screwed.

The people talking about privatizing it have said *nothing* about how it will affect the disabled. That is very troubling.

I see social security as just that. Social security. A kind of insurance that makes sure the disabled and eldery have atleast a bare minimum (and believe me, it is a bare minimum) of an income should the sh*t hit the fan. We all make plans. But few of us actually live out those plans. Life happens. Accidents happens. Mistakes happen. We should have a government funded saftey net just incase something out of our control derails our lives.

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