NationStates Jolt Archive

let me me preface my opinion by stating that i am on the fence on the issue.

there are so many inadequacies in sentencing,the racial bias's,and obviously innocent people sitting on death row(the retarded guy that texas killed comes to mind)
not to mention the horrid selfish prosecutors that will wrongfully/knowingly imprison an innocent on a technical violation...for votes or their future political careers,or just 1 for the win column.

so all that and more leads me to want a moratorium on the death penalty.my father always said,better to let 10 guilty men go then kill 1 innocent.
i completely agree.

that said,and brings me to the point of this thread.
i also believe some people are beyond scum,and of no redeeming value to society.

some people are just flat incorrigble,and a menace to society.

i will attach an article were the felon admitted his crime,and that is what has me thinking.

i do not think the system is working(the death penalty)nor has it.

my conundrum is...i feel in some situations it is actually to leniant.

there are people that just do not belong on the same earth as the average person.

the thought of an innocent person being jailed,let alone put to death is just not worth it,for what ever negligble deterent it may afford.

but if someone admits their guilt(not a beaten out confession)but admits it...do you feel they should die.

as a father,this story boils my blood,and whether the state killed him or not..i would,even if i needed to get locked up to get to him.

thats my problem,i am against killing people,yet on the other hand,when it is clear and admitted,it is the only recourse that is justice for the grieving family,if any relief at all.
but at least the state does not need to feed and clothe a pos killer that will never ever walk our streets with out endangering everyone.

a bit confused,but in this instance...yes...to the death penalty.

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer
58 minutes ago



SARASOTA, Fla. - A former mechanic convicted of raping and murdering 11-year-old Carlie Brucia, whose abduction was caught on a car wash security camera, was sentenced to death Wednesday for her murder.

ADVERTISEMENT

The jury that convicted Joseph P. Smith recommended that he be executed, and the judge agreed. Smith, 39, showed no emotion Wednesday as Judge Andrew Owens read the official sentence.

Last month, Smith had tearfully apologized during a hearing, saying: "I take responsibility of my crimes. I don't understand how this could have happened. ... Every day I think about what I did and beg God for forgiveness."

He said he had taken heroin and cocaine in an attempt to kill himself before he abducted Carlie in 2004. Smith said he didn't remember much about that day and asked Owens to spare him for the sake of his family. His attorney, Adam Tebrugge, argued that Smith could lead a productive life in prison and be a positive influence on his three daughters if he was spared.

Owens discounted those arguments Wednesday. He said Carlie suffered "unspeakable terror and physical suffering" at Smith's hands.

Carlie's body was found four days after her disappearance on the grounds of a Sarasota church. News of the crime shook the community, and hundreds turned out for memorial services.

Carlie's stepfather, Steven Kansler, buried his face in his hands as Owens read details of the crimes before sentencing Smith.

"I thought I'd feel a lot different," Kansler said afterward. "But it still hurts. It doesn't change anything. I just feel that Carlie has been heard. Her soul is gone now. Now it's just a matter of time to wait to watch Joe Smith die."

Absent from the courtroom was Carlie's mother, Susan Schorpen, who is in jail in Pinellas County on drug and prostitution charges. She has said the pain of losing her daughter led her to institutionalize herself three times and take drugs to numb the pain.

Yeah, but that's an irrational response due to your paternal instincts kicking in.

As for the only-when-admitted idea, that's a quick way to ensure more difficult convictions and a massive fall in people willing to admit

The death penalty is barbaric, that's pretty much the only reason you need

Oh good, another death penalty thread.

Well, I don't think it's barbaric. I don't see why one would see execution as barbaric, but life in prison as civilized. One is taking a man's life, the other a man's freedom. Neither is something one should do just for votes or jollies. Neither is barbaric. Both are punishments and that is that. Sure, it's wrong to take an innocent man's life - but it's also wrong to take an innocent man's freedom. Convicting the innocent is what's wrong, and that's why there are appeals. Sure, appeals run out for death row inmates - but they also run out for people who die in prison, too.

The old, "better that 10 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent get executed" is absolute horseshit. Because those 10 guilty men might each commit 10 crimes. Rape, murder, what-have-you. What your pa is saying is that it's better that 100 women get raped and murdered, than 1 innocent man get accidentally executed. Basically, you think because the justice system is not perfect, it might as well not exist and we should just live in a state of anarchy.

Oh good, another death penalty thread.

Well, I don't think it's barbaric. I don't see why one would see execution as barbaric, but life in prison as civilized. One is taking a man's life, the other a man's freedom. Neither is something one should do just for votes or jollies. Neither is barbaric. Both are punishments and that is that. Sure, it's wrong to take an innocent man's life - but it's also wrong to take an innocent man's freedom. Convicting the innocent is what's wrong, and that's why there are appeals. Sure, appeals run out for death row inmates - but they also run out for people who die in prison, too.

The old, "better that 10 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent get executed" is absolute horseshit. Because those 10 guilty men might each commit 10 crimes. Rape, murder, what-have-you. What your pa is saying is that it's better that 100 women get raped and murdered, than 1 innocent man get accidentally executed. Basically, you think because the justice system is not perfect, it might as well not exist and we should just live in a state of anarchy.

Paragraph one: It's a question of degrees, taking life is worse than taking freedom. There's no easy answer but the failings of the prison system do not somehow justify the death penalty doing the same, but worse, and with more finality. The death sentance is pointless, it achieves nothing but another dead body.

Paragraph two: Unfortunately your argument falls down when you take into consideration that we don't send those who aren't executed on their way with a wave and a packed lunch. They're kept in a secure facilities called prison.

I'm against the death penalty, because in my opinion its not a punishment. Dead is dead, the end. In my opinion spending the rest of ones natural life in prison is much worse then being put to death, death in this case is a sort off escape.

Well, you're entitled to your mostly wrong opinion.

Paragraph one: It's a question of degrees, taking life is worse than taking freedom. There's no easy answer but the failings of the prison system do not somehow justify the death penalty doing the same, but worse, and with more finality. The death sentance is pointless, it achieves nothing but another dead body.

So you would really rather live 60 more years, with the provision that you would be a slave, and I would rape you up the ass every day and night until you died?

I mean hey... the only thing you've lost is your freedom. At least you're not dead. Right?

Paragraph two: Unfortunately your argument falls down when you take into consideration that we don't send those who aren't executed on their way with a wave and a packed lunch. They're kept in a secure facilities called prison.

I was responding to the quote in the original post:

my father always said,better to let 10 guilty men go then kill 1 innocent.

And as for prison, are you saying that any prison sentence is a life sentence? I don't suppose you've ever heard of defense attourneys, have you?

Oh good, another death penalty thread.

Well, I don't think it's barbaric. I don't see why one would see execution as barbaric, but life in prison as civilized. One is taking a man's life, the other a man's freedom. Neither is something one should do just for votes or jollies. Neither is barbaric. Both are punishments and that is that. Sure, it's wrong to take an innocent man's life - but it's also wrong to take an innocent man's freedom. ...

The difference here being, you can give back the freedom once the innocent man is found to be innocent.

I don't suppose you've ever heard of defense attourneys, have you?
Yeah. Damn Legal Rights! Abolish them!

Oh good, another death penalty thread.

Well, I don't think it's barbaric. I don't see why one would see execution as barbaric, but life in prison as civilized. One is taking a man's life, the other a man's freedom. Neither is something one should do just for votes or jollies. Neither is barbaric. Both are punishments and that is that. Sure, it's wrong to take an innocent man's life - but it's also wrong to take an innocent man's freedom. Convicting the innocent is what's wrong, and that's why there are appeals. Sure, appeals run out for death row inmates - but they also run out for people who die in prison, too.

The old, "better that 10 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent get executed" is absolute horseshit. Because those 10 guilty men might each commit 10 crimes. Rape, murder, what-have-you. What your pa is saying is that it's better that 100 women get raped and murdered, than 1 innocent man get accidentally executed. Basically, you think because the justice system is not perfect, it might as well not exist and we should just live in a state of anarchy.

valid points...thats what i am trying to achieve here.

i think cicero said it was as demeaning to society as it was to the "crimminal" to shackle them.
i have been shackled...wrongfully...and it was the worse thing i could imagine...being heeled like a dog.
i would have prefered them to shoot me in the street like the dog they thought i was(another reason against the death penalty i suppose).

i forget the quote..but it goes back to roman times...something along the lines of jailing people is worse then killing them...and i agree.

till you have been paraded in an orange jumpsuit before a judge(kinda makes you look guilty)shackled at the hands and feet..you will never understand.

i sure looked guilty...lol..but the problem was...i wasnt...thats why i posted this..and i am fundamentally against the death penalty.

just glad i could afford all the justice money could buy.terrible but true.i feel downright sick about some of my cell mates..some are guilty..some are inocent...but i take issue with your attitude that to prevent rapes and murders you can justify locking up or worse..innocents.

obviously...you have never been falsely accused and incarcerated...at the best it is demeaning...at the worst.it is life threatening.

maybe you have the luxury of good attorneys like i did,but alot dont,but to save a few persecute the many?

i would suggest you go commit a misdeameanor..nothing serious..just a night in jail,and then talk to me about how it is justifiable to break a few eggs.

i dont know were you live..but the jail i was in was beyond horrible...but maybe that is a deterent?'i know i dont want to go back,but i could have been killed....is that right?

i was in camden county jail...not pleasant..but actually the inmates were kinda nice to me,seeing as i was scared shitless...there was 3 white guys out of 120 in our overcrowded cell block.i was white,the other 117 were black.

i actually had a guard take me out of my cell in the middle of the night to protect me...lovely girl/guard....but she warned me..i would be dead in a week if i didn't get bail,she hid me in the hospital part,and i did nothing wrong to anybody!!!!

the judge let me go 2 or 3 days later,cause i was innocent,but if it was not for that angel..i may as well could have been dead..or worse..evil.

so i obviously take issue with your opinion...your wrong,go to jail when your innocent and tell me it is ok...i can kill some scumbag on the street..but being innocent in jail is in defensible.
i can protect myself somewhat on the street,not in jail....you just are a scared little boy/girl and want everyone that threatens you in jail...shame on you.:(

Oh good, another death penalty thread.

Well, I don't think it's barbaric. I don't see why one would see execution as barbaric, but life in prison as civilized. One is taking a man's life, the other a man's freedom. Neither is something one should do just for votes or jollies. Neither is barbaric. Both are punishments and that is that. Sure, it's wrong to take an innocent man's life - but it's also wrong to take an innocent man's freedom. Convicting the innocent is what's wrong, and that's why there are appeals. Sure, appeals run out for death row inmates - but they also run out for people who die in prison, too.

The old, "better that 10 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent get executed" is absolute horseshit. Because those 10 guilty men might each commit 10 crimes. Rape, murder, what-have-you. What your pa is saying is that it's better that 100 women get raped and murdered, than 1 innocent man get accidentally executed. Basically, you think because the justice system is not perfect, it might as well not exist and we should just live in a state of anarchy.

please dont put words in my mouth..i never said the justice system shoud be scrapped..i do say it is inherentily unfair and that in some instances..it would be better if we just took the admitted crimminal outback and shot him...but thats just me..mostly it is unfair..thats the point..hope you never get wrongly accused.