NationStates Jolt Archive

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TOKYO - Sony will put off the release of its much awaited PlayStation 3 machine until November from its planned spring debut because of delays in finalizing its next-generation disk technology, the company said Wednesday.

i was counting the days until spring. i guess i have to restart the countdown :(

This will work to Sony's advantage. The market still isn't quite ready for the next generation yet and the PS3 will make the Xbox 360 look pathetic when it finally emerges.

Seems to be Sony's way... Wait until the market's seen an example and then outclass it a hundredfold...

I would rather have a finalized PS3 then some half asses system rushed out onto the market. *looks angrily at the 360 in the corner of the room*

It will be quite expensive:

- Price will not be less than 50.000YEN (~$425USD)

Kotaku (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/playstation-conference-news-roundup-160603.php)

I would rather have a finalized PS3 then some half asses system rushed out onto the market. *looks angrily at the 360 in the corner of the room*


I am playing "Black" on playstation II.

Its really good.

Seems to be Sony's way... Wait until the market's seen an example and then outclass it a hundredfold...


Xbox 360 is too early. People are still well into their PS2's.

PS3 will make the 360 look like the Dreamcast did when the PS2 arrived.

It will be quite expensive:

yeah, but people will be more than willing to spend...

Xbox 360 is too early. People are still well into their PS2's.

thats a good point too...

I am playing "Black" on playstation II.

Its really good.

I'm playing it on the Xbox (normal) and it does kick royal ass.

I wouldn't mind waiting for a beefy juggernaut of a 360 killer.

I'd also like to buy a Revolution.

yeah, but people will be more than willing to spend...

The early adopters will surely. It's way too expensive for me though, but I'm more looking forward to the Revolution anyways.

I wonder what MS will do to counter the PS3 release? A price-drop + Halo 3?

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i was counting the days until spring. i guess i have to restart the countdown :(
Remember the "what they say vs. what they mean cartoons?" Well, this ^ is what they said, what they meant was:

"Microsoft got a jump on us with the XBox 360 and we don't want to release now and play catch up. We've therefore decided to wait until the Christmas buying season in order to whip up a frenzy for the PSP3 the same way the XBox 360 did last year and put Microsoft on the defensive during the holiday peak season and all next year."

I wonder what MS will do to counter the PS3 release? A price-drop + Halo 3?

Halo 3 isn't close to being ready as I've heard, but that's just from the gamer grapvine.

I've never liked Nintendo and this new system only going to show them for the money grubbing dogs they are. The new controller...

That's convenient--a November release, just in time for Christmas. They might have decided that they're not really ceding the field since XBox is having issues and no one really seems to be getting excited about Revolution.

That's okay, I'll have my new computer, Oblivion, HL2 aftermath, and NWN2 to keep me company over the summer.

I've never liked Nintendo and this new system only going to show them for the money grubbing dogs they are. The new controller...

How exactly does the Revolution make them "money grubbing dogs", hmm?

How exactly does the Revolution make them "money grubbing dogs", hmm?

The new controller is going to be able to have many, many, attachments. Many of which will be necessary to play some of your favorite games. Your friends want to play with you, they pay as well, yay for your money!

Not saying that's what will happen but it sure as hell seems probable.

That's okay, I'll have my new computer, Oblivion, HL2 aftermath, and NWN2 to keep me company over the summer.

i wont have anything new. i have to start saving my money...

PS3 will make the 360 look like the Dreamcast did when the PS2 arrived.

Oddly enough, the dreamcast was a superior machine to the PS2 - however, the sony media machine was far superior to Sega's.

Oddly enough, the dreamcast was a superior machine to the PS2 - however, the sony media machine was far superior to Sega's.

Really?

I never understood launching a system without backing it with solid games which is what seemed to be the Dreamcast's downfall. Yeah you had House of the Dead, Powerstone, and Sonic but that was about it. Just like how I was disapointed by the 360's release backed only by the likes of Call of Duty, Condemned,and uh ...*thinks*

Oddly enough, the dreamcast was a superior machine to the PS2 - however, the sony media machine was far superior to Sega's.

I can't comment on that because I've never played much on the Dreamcast, but even the Gamecube is superiour to the PS2. The great plus of the PS2 is mostly the great number of games available.

Oddly enough, the dreamcast was a superior machine to the PS2 - however, the sony media machine was far superior to Sega's.

The perception was all that mattered; people got whipped up into a frenzy about the PS2, to the point that Sega practically conceded defeat before it had even been released.

Absolutely Valdania :The sony media machine claimed the PS2 was vastly superior to the dreamcast - in time (too late to save Sega's last foray into consoles), it was shown that was not the case.

Anyhow, I've been (till recently) an avid xbox player to the exclusion of all else. I do like the PS2 though - some of the games on it are absolute tripe, and the online system is awful. However, there are games which make it worthwhile :)

Shadow of the Colussus is a fantastic title to play. I still play xbox live more than anything else though.

i hope MS drops their X360 price and saturates the market before then. they have an opportunity to... it would be the 'aggressive' business strategy to do so... they lost money on the original Xbox for quite some time - doing the same now to subsidise its price to a ridiculously low level and saturating the market would rock. i hate sony.

i only knew 1 person that had a dreamcast. i was still playing genesis(mortal kombat games) when it came out...

Shadow of the Colussus is a fantastic title to play.

Shadow of the Colossus and ICO alone are a good reason to get a PS2.

The new controller is going to be able to have many, many, attachments. Many of which will be necessary to play some of your favorite games. Your friends want to play with you, they pay as well, yay for your money!

Not saying that's what will happen but it sure as hell seems probable.

True, but remember that the GameCube also has many attachment slots. I can't remember any addons actually being made for it.

Oh, and the Dreamcast was less powerful than the PS2 (though its 2D processing was still superior). But the fact remains that it died because of Sony's juggernaut of a fanbase, and the Dreamcast's lack of good games.

True, but remember that the GameCube also has many attachment slots. I can't remember any addons actually being made for it.

Yeah but the new controller seems more dependent on attachments and it seems a little unfair if you have to pay extra. If sony did that for FFXII or KHII there would be hell to pay.

True, but remember that the GameCube also has many attachment slots. I can't remember any addons actually being made for it.


There was that Gameboy Player, although this wasn't very exciting. Good for playing Advance Wars on a big telly though.

Heh, who else saw this comng a mile off?

Look at the PS3's problems.

1) it'll be the mother of all sons of bitches to code for. 7 processors when we haven't even got dual-threading working properly on PC? It's like the Emotion Engine all over again. The software to code that thing easily is still a long way from completion.

2) The hardware is going to be insane to manufacture. I suspect they'll spend a long time trying to get the fab processes as cheap as they can.

3) Blu-ray...

4) Games. The 360 had very little that grabbed anyone's attention on release day. PD0 was a load of crap, DOA 'extra boob edition' isn't worth 50 quid and everything else was either cheaper on PC (CoD2 anyone?) or cheaper on Xbox/GC/PS2 already.

Persoally I'll stand by Nintendo. A console predected to launch at about $150 with free Wifi and Shigsy doing games for it? Count me in (I actually like the look of the new controller. Hopefully they'll tak the Donkey Konga approach to peripherals).

I'm waiting for the Revolution, myself. The 360 and PS3 are just going to amount to prettier versions of the same kinds of games. I want to be waving the Master Sword around in my living room like a crazy person.

Yeah but the new controller seems more dependent on attachments and it seems a little unfair if you have to pay extra. If sony did that for FFXII or KHII there would be hell to pay.

I'm hoping that developers won't do that, but if they do and the addons really are good, I wouldn't mind that much.

If the addons are like R.O.B. and the Powerglove, though...

True, but remember that the GameCube also has many attachment slots. I can't remember any addons actually being made for it.

Donkey konga came with free bongos. But that's a good way to do peripherals 9and a funky game)

The 360 and PS3 are just going to amount to prettier versions of the same kinds of games.

I agree...

I want to be waving the Master Sword around in my living room like a crazy person.

3) Blu-ray...

man i hope that flops too

Heh, who else saw this comng a mile off?

Look at the PS3's problems.

1) it'll be the mother of all sons of bitches to code for. 7 processors when we haven't even got dual-threading working properly on PC? It's like the Emotion Engine all over again. The software to code that thing easily is still a long way from completion.

2) The hardware is going to be insane to manufacture. I suspect they'll spend a long time trying to get the fab processes as cheap as they can.

3) Blu-ray...

4) Games. The 360 had very little that grabbed anyone's attention on release day. PD0 was a load of crap, DOA 'extra boob edition' isn't worth 50 quid and everything else was either cheaper on PC (CoD2 anyone?) or cheaper on Xbox/GC/PS2 already.

Persoally I'll stand by Nintendo. A console predected to launch at about $150 with free Wifi and Shigsy doing games for it? Count me in (I actually like the look of the new controller. Hopefully they'll tak the Donkey Konga approach to peripherals).

1: The PS1 has six processors. Of course, the PS3's seven are far more advanced and infinitely more complex, but the situation's not much different now than it was then.

2: Correct. I'm sure they'll get something working sooner or later. Hopefully.

3: Yeah, that's pretty sad about Blu-Ray. Stupid Microsoft, eh?

4: You said it. :p

Same here, but I'd like to get a PS3, even if it's just for the sports games (gotta love Gran Turismo).

Donkey konga came with free bongos. But that's a good way to do peripherals 9and a funky game)
hahaha you can play it with your ass... *ah, fun memories...*

Donkey konga came with free bongos. But that's a good way to do peripherals 9and a funky game)

But those connected to the default controller ports, not the serial ports hidden in the cube itself...

...Or am I incorrect? I'm going on an ancient magazine article here. :p

It's an old post (alright, I lifted it from elsewhere) I made in my blog back in May around E3, but seems apt.....

In the past week, Sony's strategy for the upcoming console war has become clear....actually, it was pretty clear to some people as soon as MS let the existence of the 360 leak at GDC this past January. It became very clear that Sony was going to be late to market, and they knew it. MS had quietly shipped dev kits out early in 2004, and Sony got caught a little flatfooted. They scrambled to get their dev kits ready for developers (Epic, for example, only just got theirs in March). Some Sony developers apparently still don't have kits yet.

Sony is faced with a well-funded, software-intensive opponent who has proven they can have a "triple-A killer app system-seller" at a system launch. This opponent has 160 games in development and has the intention to stick around for the long term (and the money to do so). So what can Sony do to stop them?

The same way bad politicians get themselves reelected: Manipulate the media to do your marketing work for you.

OK, MS does it too, but they are far more obvious about it. The MTV special was a prime example. But if you tuned into that show not expecting to see hype and marketing at work....well, if you did that, you probably lack the literacy or attention span to read this whole post (sincere apolgies for the length...I was bored and I'm practicing my essay skills. Sue me.).

But buying a block on VH1 or G4 won't work for Sony. It's just way too obvious. They need to attack strong and swift, yet not show themselves as TOO aggressive lest people think it's all pea****-style bluster. So what they really need to do is to get the media to do their promotional work for them, and win the public mindset without even having a working product on the show floor.

I bet they looked back to E3 2001 and took a look at how Microsoft handles a system launch (they are smart, after all, and it's what smart people would do). If they watched, they would have seen that Microsoft, as a software company, was ill-equipped for show business. Demos ran at poor framerates and generally looked bad....it hardly looked like there would be any decent games at launch. MS got a "D" from EGM based on their E3 showing on 2001. Then came the launch, bristling with system-seller Halo and solid titles like DOA3 and Oddworld. MS likes to go low-profile then wow you once you see things in action (which is how they got my business), but before the final product actually shows up, they don't look so hot.

So the opponent, if not actually weak, will at least APPEAR weak at E3, and since that's where the media is, that is where Sony chose to strike. They know that the people smart enough to ask the right questions about whether a demo is "real" or not are generally nowhere near the cameras and microphones, and they used this to their advantage.

So it was at the press conference they advanced the Big Lie, which is composed of two parts.

Big Lie Part 1: We are waaaaaaay more powerful than our competition.

This one was a no-brainer. Sony won the last round in spite of a horsepower disadvantage to MS, but they were well entrenched in the marketplace by the time MS hit the market. Their original competitor, Sega, withered in the face of a blitz of fancy imagery and "more power" claims laid out on impressive-looking spec sheets. The truth was that Sony launch titles looked barely better - or in some cases worse - than Dreamcast titles, in spite of what was supposed to be a significant power edge, but Sony had successfully sold "more power", and gamers bought into it. Sega, practically broke and with no third-party support, couldn't afford any significant advertising to counter the Sony hype machine. Much later, it was found that the 75 million polygons per second that Sony had claimed for the PS2 on their original spec sheet was actually closer to 7 million in actual applications, but by then, everyone already had a PS2 and no one cared they had stretched the truth.

What Sony learned was that if you can make people think your console is going to be significantly more powerful, they will wait for you to get to market. They also learned that people like to hear impressive numbers, and it doesn't matter if you can actually deliver on them or not. So it is you get wild performance claims about the Cell that may or may not bear any resemblance to how it will perform in the final product. No one can really dispute them because no one really knows any better.

But it isn't enough to simply TELL people you are more powerful. They will demand "proof". Since your opponent will be showing actual works in progress, which as anyone who has followed the industry knows makes games look worse than the final product, counter with a little showbiz magic that "SHOWS" people how much more powerful you really are. After all, "seeing is believing", and most of the people in the media don't know to ask if it's real or not. I do not believe for a second that most members of the non-gaming media are "industry savvy" enough to realize how unfair it is to compare a real game in progress to someone's CGI fantasy. But that is what Sony wanted, and that is what they got. Killzone was being compared to Need for Speed, apple to apple.

The more perceptive in the gaming media will think to ask about it, and look into it, and get specific information, read between the lines of the "representation of the look and feel" or "to system specs" marketing doublespeak, and report the truth....but by then, the mainstream media will consider E3 old news, and the general idea "twice as powerful" will be ingrained into the public mindset.

So phase one has already been accomplished. Now you have to promote Big Lie, Part 2, which is to promote the idea that you are much farther along in production than you actually are.

First, the history: After Sega folded the tent, Sony had the whole marketplace to themselves for nearly a year. In that time, the software lineup got up to speed, and by the time MS and Nintendo showed up, they had 100 games out, among them Gran Turismo 3, Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry, and Final Fantasy 10. They won the last round because they had a strong foothold in the marketplace and a large library of quality titles when their main competition launched. It was over before it even began.

Looking at MS, Sony realized that the tables could very well be turned this time around. Sony would be the ones arriving late, and MS had shown they could produce "system seller" software right off the bat. The promise of more power might wilt under a constant barrage of quality software. Topping it off, MS developers have had the kits for upwards of a year longer than their PS3 counterparts.

This is a key point, and where, if you apply critical thinking skills, you must reach the conclusion that the claim of a Spring 2006 launch is so much Sony marketing fertilizer. It is generally recognized that the 360 is somewhat easier to program, which means games may be able to be produced a little more quickly. Now, if MS developers have had 12-15 months to work with their development kits as of today, and PS3 developers have only had them for 2-3 months....AND the 360 is easier to program.....then how does Sony figure to have an exclusive launch lineup that's worth anything 4 months after the 360 launches, when developers have barely had their kits a year? This is especially true when you consider the lack of quality of the PS2 launch lineup (proof of this found here), and the slow flow of software at first. It was 10 months from launch before Gran Turismo, 14 months before Metal Gear Solid, and 16 months until Final Fantasy hit the shelves. Sony got away with it because they had the market to themselves almost the whole time. There was nowhere else for consumers to go.

So, once again, how can Sony deliver a worthy software lineup in March 2006? The answer is simple: They can't. It is not possible, unless their developers have magically figured out how to cut production times in half on an all-new system. But if they are honest about it and tell people that the really good games won't hit the shelves until mid-2007, a million gamers or so might figure it's not worth the wait and get a 360 to "hold them over". These consumers just might be so impressed with MS they make it their preferred system...and they tell their friends....and suddenly Sony is facing an opponent who is firmly entrenched in the marketplace and the public mindset.

Sony can't allow this to happen, so the perception must be created that they will be on the store shelves a lot sooner than they actually will. Microsoft must be stopped and stopped early; any momentum in the marketplace is very bad news for Sony. Even if they wind up selling more systems, a strong start by Microsoft may mean the difference between charging $399 for the "superior" system or having to sell it at $299 in order to compete. When you are talking about eventual sales in the tens of millions of consoles, you are looking at a potential loss of over a billion dollars in possible revenue.

Now do you understand why Sony is lying to consumers?

The CGI fantasy sequences do double-duty in this case. They provide the impression of power and near-completion in one neat stroke. Hey, if they've got "realtime" stuff that looks that good, they must be damn near ready to launch, right? Heck, Killzone 2 practically looked ready to go tomorrow....bring it on! This is what the Sony fanboys and the unsavvy civilian press will think and report back to their sheep...and as for the gaming press, most of what I've seen after E3 suggests to me that a large portion of them clearly don't understand the industry very well.

So the Big Lie takes the form of "Spring 2006", which many people would interpret to mean that in March or April they'll be playing MGS4 and watching Blu-Ray movies on a PS3. I have seen media reports suggesting it will be out in the US as early as March, so the "coming very soon" message got through. But if the games aren't there (and I just gave some pretty strong evidence that they won't), Sony gets eviscerated in the marketplace, period. So Spring is an utter fantasy...maybe in Japan, given Sony likes to "beta" its hardware in Japan (who are more likely to be forgiving of flaws in the hometown product) and the potential for bugs in something that packs in this much shiny new high-tech stuff has to be pretty high. Add to this that summer is a horrible time to launch a video game system, and I can practically guarantee you won't see a non-grey market PS3 for sale in the US until September 2006 at the earliest. They did the same thing back in 1999-2000, delaying the US launch several times until it finally arrived in the Fall. I can foresee the same thing happening again this time.

I predict Sony will announce this delay in mid-to-late January. Any earlier and they provide 360 with a sales boost in the holidays. Any later and it becomes obvious that they are stalling for time.

The reason they can get away with this is because of a psychological phenomenon called "buy-in". All buy-in means is that once you've invested a little time or money into something, it's a lot easier to justify spending a little more to get what you want. Once people have already waited two months, it makes it easier to wait a little longer until E3...at which time Sony is free to try their luck with another smoke-and-mirror show. If they can convince people who have already waited seven months that they'll deliver the software at launch, those people will wait the additional four months with no problems. Given the way people reacted to last week's show, that's going to be a piece of cake.

Is Sony going to get away with the Big Lie? In one sense they already have, because the "twice as powerful" and "will be here in early 2006" ideas have already permeated the mainstream media. Microsoft got the worst grades coming out of E3, and Sony got the best. Mission accomplished....partially.

The problem, though, is that this time they actually have to deliver on the promises they've made in a timely manner, or people will call them on their BS. Unlike 2000, they don't have the luxury of having the marketplace to themselves for 14 months. In the very least, Microsoft will have four months alone on the shelves to make an impression, which in all likelihood will be much closer to ten months to a year. A poor launch lineup, significant delays in major software titles (likely if the PS3 turns out to be difficult to get a handle on, as was the PS2), production difficulties, a major format war with DVD/HD, bugs in the Cell or Blu-Ray....the number of potential pitfalls is enormous. Then they have MS, who just might come up with enough great games this time to carve deeply into their market share....maybe not enough to win, but enough to make it hurt their bottom line in a major way.

So, did Sony lie and get away with it? Yes. Is the console war over before the first one is even manufactured? Not by a long shot.

Thaks for reading.

But those connected to the default controller ports, not the serial ports hidden in the cube itself...

...Or am I incorrect? I'm going on an ancient magazine article here. :p

My bad. Still the best peripherals snce House of the Dead.

1: The PS1 has six processors. Of course, the PS3's seven are far more advanced and infinitely more complex, but the situation's not much different now than it was then.

yeah but they weren't 6 processors on multithread chip... cos that sorta just wasn't done back then (i don't know for sure but i can make an educated guess)

the multicore design of sony's new processors (of which the PS3 has 3 IIRC) is a very good idea on paper. in practice it amounts to only the same amount of power, just distributing it more ways. whether or not this is a good thing is up to the programmers - which will make programming for it all the more complicated. there's no doubt about that.

plus, when releasing their processing benchmarks, sony kinda cheated... the X360 claimed 1.3 teraflops (or thereabouts) while the PS3 claimed over 2. BUT the sony figures included calculations from their GPU, while the x360s were CPU only. thus the difference in 'raw power' between the two consoles is going to be not that much - i won't doubt that the PS3 will look a little nicer than the x360, but that all depends on whether programmers can actually get the most (or much) out of the strange multicore design.

unlike for the Xbox, where DirecX means easy coding in the same way programmers have been doing it for years, as well as built in real time effects cycles that don't even have to be programmed for - just accessed.


when you couple in the fact that PS3 might well use a disc system that probably won't be able to play the next generation of DVDs (HD-DVD is cheaper, more reliable, is supported by more manafacturers, and will roll out first), i don't see how the PS3 will 'mop the floor' with the competition as some people are saying. i really don't get this sony fanboydom that some people seem to suffer from - sony are just as evil, aggressive, and monolithic as "M$", and yet some people seem to see the company as some kind of knight in shining armour, standing up against the evils of microsoft. i got news for you: sony and MS are just as evil, corrupt and huge as each other. get over your superiority complex and move on. the PS2 was good largely because the competition sucked for that generation (the original xbox was better but it hardly qualifies as the same generation being released over 2 years later)

of course, this rant over, what really counts is the games.
sony have a record of releasing pretty much anything and giving you huge choice of some very good, and lots of very crap, games
nintendo have done the opposite: very few, but very quality
MS have been buying their way into the major games developers for years now, and produce a number of good games themselves.
i don't know what games are coming out for the PS3, though most big games come out cross-platform nowadays anyway. many of the games coming out for the 360 are really quite exciting for me, and i'm just waiting till the first price drop to get mine. i suppose the PS3 will have another GT (fine; i care not - i (will) have PGR) or Final Fantasy (a game which i've never really cared about in the slightest). maybe another GTA (though Rockstar's exclusivity deal with Sony ran out last year sometime, so we shall see who gets it first this time round), and metal gear (slinter cell's pretty good imho - not my kind of game though)
all the consoles have lacked good strategy or RTS games for...well... for ever. this is why the PC still rocks!

i would be pretty interested in getting a Revolution as well, just because it looks like insane, wacky fun and not too serious :)


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i was counting the days until spring. i guess i have to restart the countdown :(

Bah...I saw this coming from a mile away, and I'm not upset. I'd rather they work hard to make it completely kickass, rather than futz around with glitches.

Bah...I saw this coming from a mile away, and I'm not upset. I'd rather they work hard to make it completely kickass, rather than futz around with glitches.

Odds are it'll still be glitchy as all hell on release. Pretty much every console is.