NationStates Jolt Archive

This appears to be a fairly minor incident but it is quite amusing/disturbing.

Are there any US NS'rs doing the Baccalaureate at the moment?



All American trouble

Furious row as US school board drops International Baccalaureate for being 'too foreign'. By Joanna Walters

Tuesday March 14, 2006
The Guardian


A US school district has banned the International Baccalaureate after officials condemned it as "un-American" and Marxist, sparking outrage among pupils who are studying the increasingly popular diploma.
A group of parents yesterday joined forces with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) to sue the school, demanding reinstatement of a curriculum even President George Bush encourages.

here's the rest of the article:

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1729754,00.html

What an obvious display of mindless nationalistic dick-waving.

"After a week of being called a Marxist, anti-Christian and anti-American, I pulled out my passport to remind myself I am an American," said Bradley Richardson, regional director of the International Baccalaureate office for North America and the Caribbean.

Are none of the self-proclaimed Republicans on this board embarrassed? Embarrassed to be associated with people who pull out these same lines on everyone that they disagree with?

Why? I can't understand why it is that minority fundamentalist arguments and nationalistic ideals are seen as more important that broad based all round education. Education, the more full and open the better. I would love my own children to have the chance to study the International Baccalaureate. As for the total guff spouted by that small minded ignorant racist little man, all it does is prove that the I B is necessary.

Why? I can't understand why it is that minority fundamentalist arguments and nationalistic ideals are seen as more important that broad based all round education.

"Education" is dangerous...didn't you get the memo?

I was an IB student when I attended high school in the States. I honestly don't see how it could possibly be any of those things.

"Oh noes! The students are getting a good education! If they learn to think for themselves, we're doomed!"

Everything an American needs to know can be found in either the New Testament, The Constitution or the lyrics from any Lynyrd Skynyrd song. Yeehaw.

What an obvious display of mindless nationalistic dick-waving.

"After a week of being called a Marxist, anti-Christian and anti-American, I pulled out my passport to remind myself I am an American," said Bradley Richardson, regional director of the International Baccalaureate office for North America and the Caribbean.

Are none of the self-proclaimed Republicans on this board embarrassed? Embarrassed to be associated with people who pull out these same lines on everyone that they disagree with?There you have it. The guy admitted he has a passport. That's incredibly anti-American... :D

"Education" is dangerous...didn't you get the memo?


OH no! hurriedly checks 'in tray' ummmmm.......

:eek:

...keep 'em ignorant, then nobody will notice that the president is dumb.

is this it?

Everything an American needs to know can be found in either the New Testament, The Constitution or the lyrics from any Lynyrd Skynyrd song. Yeehaw.
I quite like Lynyrd Skynyrd..

I quite like Lynyrd Skynyrd..

Why the hell wouldn't you?? What in tarnation are you implying?!

don't use any long words...it scares them.

...keep 'em ignorant, then nobody will notice that the president is dumb.

Precisely!

I burnt it! it turned me into a newt.................

I'm doing the IB here in Australia. Frankly, I'd have to say it's an absolute load of nonsense. Levels? Areas of Interaction? WTF! Why can't we just stay with good ol' A, B, C? At least everyone knew what those meant...

A US school district has banned the International Baccalaureate after officials condemned it as "un-American" and Marxist, sparking outrage among pupils who are studying the increasingly popular diploma.

I did this in Australia too and I guess I can see why some may think it's "un-American" (probably only because the term doesnt actually mean anything ...); but the claim that it's Marxist is absurd. I mean WTF, where did they come up with that? o.0

Oh, and to the person who's currently doing IB in Aus, yeah it boring and doesn't make any sense, but the convertion to ENTER rocks. :D

They probably think it's un-American because it was not invented in America.

Is the USA the "Land of Free", or turning into the "Land of Dumbos"?
Banning things as "un-American" doesn't help the redneck image.

I'm not the President, they just dressed me up like this...

*crowd chants "BURN HIM ANYWAY!"

Ignorance for the win. All the more proof that this country has a large segment of its population willing to dumb us down for no reason other than their dumbass ideology or theology.

Of course it's un-american... mainly because it's Swiss in origin... Switzerland and the USA are pretty much opposites... One makes good the chocolate, the other bad. One likes to act in a unilateral manner, the other is renowned for its neutrality and ability to chair negotiations. One complains about how high taxes drive finance offshore, the other is where that finance goes. One sets up organisations like the international Red Cross, the other sets up organisations like the IMF (*ahem* the amount of suffering that damn institution has caused). One has a coast line, the other doesn't. However, both can be quite xenophobic at times...

This appears to be a fairly minor incident but it is quite amusing/disturbing.

Are there any US NS'rs doing the Baccalaureate at the moment?



All American trouble

Furious row as US school board drops International Baccalaureate for being 'too foreign'. By Joanna Walters

Tuesday March 14, 2006
The Guardian


A US school district has banned the International Baccalaureate after officials condemned it as "un-American" and Marxist, sparking outrage among pupils who are studying the increasingly popular diploma.
A group of parents yesterday joined forces with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) to sue the school, demanding reinstatement of a curriculum even President George Bush encourages.

here's the rest of the article:

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1729754,00.html
You guys have missed the point of government in the U.S. People have elected those school board members from the community. They have to stand for re-election periodically. If there is enough support for the IB, the members that voted to eliminate it can be turned out and replaced with more sympathetic "Marxists".

Speaking of Marxists, one of the IB supporters is apparently a loose cannon, too. A school board member that voted to remove the IB received a death threat, presumably from someone that supported the IB.

Of course it's un-american... mainly because it's Swiss in origin... Switzerland and the USA are pretty much opposites... One makes good the chocolate, the other bad. One likes to act in a unilateral manner, the other is renowned for its neutrality and ability to chair negotiations. One complains about how high taxes drive finance offshore, the other is where that finance goes. One sets up organisations like the international Red Cross, the other sets up organisations like the IMF (*ahem* the amount of suffering that damn institution has caused). One has a coast line, the other doesn't. However, both can be quite xenophobic at times...
...One is renowned for its cuckoo clocks, the other for cuckoos in general...:p

You guys have missed the point of government in the U.S. People have elected those school board members from the community. They have to stand for re-election periodically. If there is enough support for the IB, the members that voted to eliminate it can be turned out and replaced with more sympathetic "Marxists".

Speaking of Marxists, one of the IB supporters is apparently a loose cannon, too. A school board member that voted to remove the IB received a death threat, presumably from someone that supported the IB.

It's obvious the decision was not "popular" if students and parents wanted the IB back. The vote was 5-4 and 5 of the board were Republicans.

Their nationalism is sickening and outdated. For the sake of the rest of the US, I hope they drop this silly idea of nationalism and focus on more important things, such as their own well-being, and that of their friends and neighbours.

...One is renowned for its cuckoo clocks, the other for cuckoos in general...:p

ZING!

"Marxist, anti-Christian and anti-American", eh?

I'd be proud. :p ;)

...One is renowned for its cuckoo clocks, the other for cuckoos in general...:pI was thinking about the cuckoo clock but I wasn't sure how to do it.

I was thinking. One is renowned for keeping its cuckoos in clocks, the other keeping its cuckoos in office.

I was thinking about the cuckoo clock but I wasn't sure how to do it.

I was thinking. One is renowned for keeping its cuckoos in clocks, the other keeping its cuckoos in office.
Then there is cheese...ideas???

LMAO!!!
I love this age of living, there's so many ignorant people in power now with more educated people around to complain that it just makes a simple task like reading the news so much fun.

That said, these people are idiots.
Why don't the people in the area simply withdraw their children from the school?
A school with no students doesn't look like it's appropriatly using it's funding does it?

Then there is cheese...ideas???One if renowned for their cheesy TV, the other for their cheesy... cheese?

"Marxist, anti-Christian and anti-American", eh?

I'd be proud. :p ;)
Exactly, I'd be damn proud of those either! :Dhttp://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
otoh, if someone called me "American" or "Christian", he'd better say his last prayer! :sniper: :mp5:

Then there is cheese...ideas???Or how about -
One is known for eating cheese, and the other for watching it.
OR
One is renowned for Will & Grace, the other for the edible type of cheese.

Or how about -
One is known for eating cheese, and the other for watching it.
OR
One is renowned for Will & Grace, the other for the edible type of cheese.
mmmm, cheese, swiss, holes, many holes, holy? very holy? riddled with holes, holed up, .......:( .........ah well, something will turn up, it always does.

Pun addiction, anyone?

This bit is kinda funny:
Trombetta had further complained that the IB tests "were developed in a foreign country".
You can almost hear the slackjawed yokel drawl as he said that. Someone give that man sum wood ta whittle and a banjo ta play.

"Goddamm forregngers. They ain't frum round these parts, are they boy?"

mmmm, cheese, swiss, holes, many holes, holy? very holy? riddled with holes, holed up, .......:( .........ah well, something will turn up, it always does.

Pun addiction, anyone?One fills their cheese with holes, the other fills their holes* with cheese?

*holes in their politics or something... bah... it needs too much explaining to be funny.

edit: All the Swiss know their big cheeses are holey, whilst some Americans believe their Big Cheese is holy.

(the whole (parden the pun) Bush claim about how god had talked to him? )
NB. My puns will nearly always be political satire.

One fills their cheese with holes, the other fills their holes* with cheese?
....
ahahhaha...no, this is perfect in its surrealismic anal implications...:D , especially with that asterisk...

Does this make anyone else want to send their kids to an IB program?

I know my kids are going!

...
"Goddamm forregngers. They ain't frum round these parts, are they boy?"
...yu dunnwidda mule? wipe it an' passit oer than...

Meanwhile, homeschooled American kids are writing bestselling novels and getting into universities like Harvard and MIT. Coincidence? I don't think so.

I've found that lately any form of anyone trying to further their education in anything but business is "un-American". Dictators and tyrrants throughout history have dismissed the arts and humanities as "useless tools of the anti-me" as well as the possibility of cross-cultural discovery.

Why should the Republican Party be any different?

I think this is undeniable proof that school board elections--while they may be among the least sexy politically--are one of the most important elections that can be waged. School board members hold an extraordinary amount of power for local officials.

I think this is undeniable proof that school board elections--while they may be among the least sexy politically--are one of the most important elections that can be waged. School board members hold an extraordinary amount of power for local officials.
You are exactly right. Other exceptionally important elections that get the short-shrift are county commissioners and city council. I don't think people realize how quickly the decisions that these people make will affect the quality of their lives.

You are exactly right. Other exceptionally important elections that get the short-shrift are county commissioners and city council. I don't think people realize how quickly the decisions that these people make will affect the quality of their lives.
Yep--the sexy elections are the oes that send people to DC or the state capital, but the ones that really affect your daily life are the local ones. And often, you can be competitive in a local election with a relatively minor outlay of cash.

It's obvious the decision was not "popular" if students and parents wanted the IB back. The vote was 5-4 and 5 of the board were Republicans.
It appears that the Republicans campaigned on that issue. The district got what they voted for.

It appears that the Republicans campaigned on that issue. The district got what they voted for.
That wasn't the only issue.
When Republicans Daniel Iracki, William Sulkowski, David Bluey and Carol Coliane won election to the board of governors, alongside incumbent Republican Mark Trombetta, last November, they promised to rein in education spending that was helping to keep taxes high.

But during election debates, some of the five also hurled accusations at the IB's content, claiming that its teaching is anti-Christian, un-American and Marxist.I kind of doubt that the IB curriculum was what won the election. Chances it was the promise of lowering spending for most voters.

That wasn't the only issue.
I kind of doubt that the IB curriculum was what won the election. Chances it was the promise of lowering spending for most voters.
Sure, but one can't blame the candidates for changing the terms of their election. Gosh, what a great way to describe breaking campaign promises... Can I copyright that?

As far as local elections go, if I were ever to commit the indecency of running for public office, it would be in a sparsely populated county in rural Georgia. It would certainly cost less and I might be able to make noticeable changes.

Sure, but one can't blame the candidates for changing the terms of their election. Gosh, what a great way to describe breaking campaign promises... Can I copyright that?

As far as local elections go, if I were ever to commit the indecency of running for public office, it would be in a sparsely populated county in rural Georgia. It would certainly cost less and I might be able to make noticeable changes.I like that phrase a lot. I've thought about it briefly in the past, but I have too many skeletons in my closet--and out in the open, for that matter. :D

This appears to be a fairly minor incident but it is quite amusing/disturbing.

Are there any US NS'rs doing the Baccalaureate at the moment?

[I]All American trouble

Furious row as US school board drops International Baccalaureate for being 'too foreign'. By Joanna Walters

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1729754,00.html
I rather suspect this is the core of the issue: "Most of the complaints emphasise the IB's teaching of a theory of knowledge course on philosophy and ethics, and that it offers subjects such as environmental systems, technology and social change, peace and conflict studies and experimental science, with an international flavour, alongside the "drier" subjects such as English, maths, history, geography, physics, chemistry, biology and foreign languages, that stir less debate, but are actually a much larger part of the core curriculum."

How dare schools try to teach students to actually think, rather than being little regurgitators of facts and figures!

If the US allows this sort of idiocy to continue, our students will only fall further and further behind internationally. Sigh. :(

It appears that the Republicans campaigned on that issue. The district got what they voted for.
Admittedly, the Guardian has a political slant, but I got the impression from the article that the IB curriculum was not an issue in the school board election. If that's so, then the voters who put those Republicans on the school board were not voting for people who were promising to change the curriculum. The negative reaction to their changes seem to support that idea.

You seem to be thinking that Republican voters put these people on the school board and now non-Republicans are objecting to what they do. But apparently, this community is overwhelmingly conservative and Republican, so there must be conservative Republicans among those complaining about the change in curriculum.

Admittedly, the Guardian has a political slant, but I got the impression from the article that the IB curriculum was not an issue in the school board election. If that's so, then the voters who put those Republicans on the school board were not voting for people who were promising to change the curriculum. The negative reaction to their changes seem to support that idea.

You seem to be thinking that Republican voters put these people on the school board and now non-Republicans are objecting to what they do. But apparently, this community is overwhelmingly conservative and Republican, so there must be conservative Republicans among those complaining about the change in curriculum.
Nazz is right about the issue of reducing expenditures being the main issue, but the Guardian clearly states that the IB program was mentioned in the campaigns. So it's not like the voters didn't have a chance to hear about the contempt some of the candidates had for the IB. Did they pay attention? Who knows.

My experience with the IB program is through the parents of kids that are enrolled. It seems like only the brighter kids have a chance to complete it, anyway, and the extra education that it offers does provide an advantange when competing for admissions to selective universities. I think the board is making a shortsighted decision, but it's theirs to make.

So...

It's not legitimate for the elected officials in America to choose what programs their children will participate in?

Do French, English, Dutch schools expose their pupils to the American views on different issues? On gun control, big government, jury trial, whatever? No? Is this multiculturalism thing virtual only?

And therein lies the problem with politicizing school boards. Ignorant, dumb & parochial fuckwads promulgating an ignorant, dumb & parochial agenda designed to keep future generations ignorant, dumb & parochial - and thoroughly American.

Three cheers for the rest of the planet.

Do French, English, Dutch schools expose their pupils to the American views on different issues?
What, expose them to ignorance, dumbness & parochialism? God save us all.

There you have it. The guy admitted he has a passport. That's incredibly anti-American... :D

Sadly enough it is... I believe that less than 20% of all US citizens has one.

And therein lies the problem with politicizing school boards. Ignorant, dumb & parochial fuckwads promulgating an ignorant, dumb & parochial agenda designed to keep future generations ignorant, dumb & parochial - and thoroughly American.

Three cheers for the rest of the planet.
Don't forget that a number of Americans send their kids to private schools. A number of Americans would also like to see vouchers available to make that process more affordable for all.

But who sets the curricula for publicly funded schools on your side of the world?

Everything an American needs to know can be found in either the New Testament, The Constitution or the lyrics from any Lynyrd Skynyrd song. Yeehaw.

Those are just for Rednecks. My personal rules:

Everything I need to know know I learned from South Park, Star Trek, or the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org).

As for the thread topic- we had an IB program at my high school. It was a college prep school, so we didn't even have standard classes- just IB, AP gifted, and Dual-enrollment. But those poor IB souls...they had ten times the amount of work, no social life, and most of their GPA's were lower than the rest of us because of the workload. So it ended up HURTING them getting into an American college.

who sets the curricula for publicly funded schools on your side of the world?
The Ministry of Education.

So...

It's not legitimate for the elected officials in America to choose what programs their children will participate in?



I don't think people are claiming it isn't legitimate. Just that it's ridiculous and creates a very poor impression indeed from an international perspective.

The Ministry of Education.
Nothing political about them, huh?

Nothing political about them, huh?

One assumes he lives in a country with a coalition government with strong opposition that changes every few years. In such countries the risks of political agendas truly influencing things like education and state funded media is far less than it would be in the USA.

One assumes he lives in a country with a coalition government that changes every few years. In such countries the risks of political agendas truly influencing things like education and state funded media is far less than it would be in the USA.
You assume correctly. And the thought of politicizing curricula is as distasteful as politicizing school boards in these parts.

Stupid bloody idea.

One assumes he lives in a country with a coalition government that changes every few years. In such countries the risks of political agendas truly influencing things like education and state funded media is far less than it would be in the USA.
Oh, but look at what damage can be done by the central Government. Ever hear of the No Child Left Behind act? That's an atrocity propagated by the Federal Department of Education that demonstrates exactly why the Fed should not be in the education business. The effects of this law make the effects of the abolition of the IB program look as serious as a mosquito bite.

Nazz is right about the issue of reducing expenditures being the main issue, but the Guardian clearly states that the IB program was mentioned in the campaigns. So it's not like the voters didn't have a chance to hear about the contempt some of the candidates had for the IB. Did they pay attention? Who knows.

My experience with the IB program is through the parents of kids that are enrolled. It seems like only the brighter kids have a chance to complete it, anyway, and the extra education that it offers does provide an advantange when competing for admissions to selective universities. I think the board is making a shortsighted decision, but it's theirs to make.
Okay, then it's the voters' fault if they didn't pay attention, and if they can't pressure the board to change its ruling now, they can fix it at the next election.

Everything an American needs to know can be found in either the New Testament, The Constitution or the lyrics from any Lynyrd Skynyrd song. Yeehaw.

There must be a lot of Americans who hate Neil Young, then. Wankers.

Oh, but look at what damage can be done by the central Government. Ever hear of the No Child Left Behind act? That's an atrocity propagated by the Federal Department of Education that demonstrates exactly why the Fed should not be in the education business. The effects of this law make the effects of the abolition of the IB program look as serious as a mosquito bite.
Matters not one whit what moronic so-called "education programs" your particular government fails miserably to administer. I have my own government, and it's not half as inept at doing things that don't invlove troops as yours.

Hahahaha the more I hear about the US the gladder I am that their economy is deflating. hee hee 'marxist' hohoho. I say the U.S. should reinstate the House Comittee for Un-American Activities. I wants me some more of this good ol' McCarthyism, and I wants it NOW!

Matters not one whit what moronic so-called "education programs" your particular government fails miserably to administer. I have my own government, and it's not half as inept at doing things that don't invlove troops as yours.
Dude ... WTF is your problem? What did any of us ever do to you?? Raising hell in the French student protest thread, now here, and these aren't the first times you've done this sort of thing either. Care to try and explain yourself?

I don't think people are claiming it isn't legitimate. Just that it's ridiculous and creates a very poor impression indeed from an international perspective.

Why is it ridiculous?

Why are Flemish residents who want the local schools to teach their values "protecting their indigenous culture" but Americans who want their schools to teach their values "ridiculous"?

Can you answer me that one?

What, expose them to ignorance, dumbness & parochialism? God save us all.

How tolerant of you.

Matters not one whit what moronic so-called "education programs" your particular government fails miserably to administer. I have my own government, and it's not half as inept at doing things that don't invlove troops as yours.

Which government is that?

Can you please tell us so we can compare?

Dude ... WTF is your problem? What did any of us ever do to you?? Raising hell in the French student protest thread, now here, and these aren't the first times you've done this sort of thing either. Care to try and explain yourself?
Why don't you stop acting as though you, personally, are the forums - or would you care to explain your patriarchal sense of forum-propriety? It's not the first time you've come off like you own the place.

And if raising Hell means occasionally telling you in oblique terms to stuff yourself, hey try coming 'round in the evenings, when I actually have the time to do so.

Nothing political about them, huh?
Curiously enough, curricula set by them tends to be bias-free.

Curiously enough, curricula set by them tends to be bias-free.

Untrue. I have studied according to a British curriculum. Among other things, we had British-printed textbooks with articles in French - we were strudying French according to the UK curriculum.

The textbooks were to promote students debating issues in French, and for this purpose provided "information on the issues." In French.

There was considerable bias regarding issues such as public smoking bans, gun control, privacy, immigration, and France's role in the UN. I drove my French teacher absolutely frigging up the wall by bringing conflicting data by the pile into the class.

There you have it. The guy admitted he has a passport. That's incredibly anti-American... :D
Beat me to it. :p

What kind of self-hater is this guy anyway, travelling outside his country when everyone knows it is the best? :rolleyes:

What kind of self-hater is this guy anyway, travelling outside his country when everyone knows it is the best? :rolleyes:

Calling people parochial rednecks for disagreeing with you = OK.
Calling people anti-American for disagreeing with you = NOT OK. :p

Oh, but look at what damage can be done by the central Government. Ever hear of the No Child Left Behind act? That's an atrocity propagated by the Federal Department of Education that demonstrates exactly why the Fed should not be in the education business. The effects of this law make the effects of the abolition of the IB program look as serious as a mosquito bite.
Central government is not the same everywhere. The No Child Left Behind Act doesnt demonstrate why the FDE should be left out of education anymore than the ruckus over ID and this particular ruckus over IB in a particular school demonstrate why school boards should be be left out of education.

EDIT:Since human beings are encultured, bias will occur in any curriculum set by humans. That's why aiming for a fuller education curriculum has distinct advantages. Hopefully in so doing people will be exposed to multiple bias perspectives, this leaves them better able to recognise their own bias than only ever being exposed to biases they either hold or are intimately familiar with from their own daily living.

I saw this on Fox a while back.

I think it's funny that Upper St. Clair banned the IB program because it was Anti-American and Against Judeo beliefs seeing how the actual TOK book discusses religion (primarily pro).

If anything, when in the program, I learned more about religion and acceptance then I would have had I taken AP classes although, I guess because it discusses a "world view" it is Anti-American.

I am a Right leaning Libertarian, and I generally go with the Conservatives but this is just embarrassing on their parts...

Of course, only complete idiots, i.e. those who came up with the IB degree and it's content, would assume that the Kyoto Protocols would do anything at all to reverse global warming. Hell, even the scientists who are squawking about global warming agree that Kyoto if applied to all countries equally would barely slow it within the next 50-100 years, let alone reverse anything. And then there's the fact that the UN is about as effectual as a half-blind one-eyed two-legged toy poodle with mange and no teeth.

What an obvious display of mindless nationalistic dick-waving.



Are none of the self-proclaimed Republicans on this board embarrassed? Embarrassed to be associated with people who pull out these same lines on everyone that they disagree with?

A single school district condemns this, and all Republicans are supposed to be embarrassed? Stereotypes ftw.

Exactly, I'd be damn proud of those either! :Dhttp://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
otoh, if someone called me "American" or "Christian", he'd better say his last prayer! :sniper: :mp5:
Somebody asked me if I was American yesterday. Damn, he got a can of ass whooping:D

< Israeli Agnostic Bisexual Jew who thinks America is very possibly superior to all nations of Europe put together. :p