NationStates Jolt Archive

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?

Honesty is paramount to all things except well-being. If someone will be severely injured if you tell the truth, you should lie. Other than that (and those situations do not occur every day, or even every year), do not lie.

Honesty is paramount to all things except well-being. If someone will be severely injured if you tell the truth, you should lie. Other than that (and those situations do not occur every day, or even every year), do not lie.

They may be hurt by the truth, but they'll be more hurt by the fact that someone was keeping it from them and lying to them about it.

They may be hurt by the truth, but they'll be more hurt by the fact that someone was keeping it from them and lying to them about it.

If I died because my friend told a hate group where I was hiding because he didn't want to lie, I'd be more hurt by that than the hate group would have been if he had remained silent. I'm not talking just about emotional hurt, I am also talking about phyiscal hurt.

little lies are no problem...

If I died because my friend told a hate group where I was hiding because he didn't want to lie, I'd be more hurt by that than the hate group would have been if he had remained silent. I'm not talking just about emotional hurt, I am also talking about phyiscal hurt.

I guess you can find the rare exception to the rule. However, that is only an exception to the rules.

little lies are no problem...

But little lies turn into big lies.

What do you consider little lies?

When you get right down to it, the only thing you truly own is your word. If it can't be trusted, you're shit. Honesty is as important a characteristic as they come.

I guess you can find the rare exception to the rule. However, that is only an exception to the rules.

When I said that such exceptions didn't even occur every year, did I make it seem like it was a common thing?

I think we agree with one another and haven't quite noticed yet ;)

Eh. Honest is overrated, especially as so many people lie about how honest they are. Look at this thread. All you George Washingtons here, never told a lie ever? Please.

Lies are necessary!

Eh. Honest is overrated, especially as so many people lie about how honest they are. Look at this thread. All you George Washingtons here, never told a lie ever? Please.

Lies are necessary!

I never said that I never told a lie, I think we all told lies. However, as one matures, grow up, and become a part of this community, one will begin to realize that unless you are honest, people will not trust you, and people will be suspicious of your words.

It varies. Lies in response to annoying and irrelevant questions are perfectly justifiable. Lies in response to questions that intrude upon your privacy are also justifiable. Lies about important, relevant matters are inexcusable.

It varies. Lies in response to annoying and irrelevant questions are perfectly justifiable. Lies in response to questions that intrude upon your privacy are also justifiable. Lies about important, relevant matters are inexcusable.

Like I said, little lies will soon turn into big ones.

Like I said, little lies will soon turn into big ones.

If someone asks me who I am most attracted to, I will dodge the question.

So here is a question: is not telling the whole, unreserved truth lying, and wrong even when done with the best of intentions?

I never said that I never told a lie, I think we all told lies. However, as one matures, grow up, and become a part of this community, one will begin to realize that unless you are honest, people will not trust you, and people will be suspicious of your words.

People trust based on their own wishes, their own gullibility, and the skill, intelligence and charisma of whoever it is they are trusting (or not trusting). It's not really based on actual honesty, but rather the appearance thereof.

People trust based on their own wishes, their own gullibility, and the skill, intelligence and charisma of whoever it is they are trusting (or not trusting). It's not really based on actual honesty, but rather the appearance thereof.

Yes, but the problem with the apperance, is that it's just an illusion. To date, I've never met anyone who could've kept up the illusion of honesty for long. Usually they would trip over their own feet, and the illusion is destoryed, everything is revealed.

Like I said, little lies will soon turn into big ones.

If they do, I will stop lying and tell the full truth.

If someone asks me who I am most attracted to, I will dodge the question.

So here is a question: is not telling the whole, unreserved truth lying, and wrong even when done with the best of intentions?

You could say it's none of their business.

But little lies turn into big lies.

What do you consider little lies?

little lies? things that dont matter. if i asked my girlfriend what she had for lunch and she says a salad, but she really had a hot dog. things like that dont matter. big lies matter. like, "no, im not seeing someone else," or "no, i didnt vote for bush"...

If they do, I will stop lying and tell the full truth.

Or so you say, see the problem with that plan is that by the time you get to that stage, you're so deep that you must either bare all and risk losing some important trust, or keep on lying until it all collapases around you.

little lies? things that dont matter. if i asked my girlfriend what she had for lunch and she says a salad, but she really had a hot dog. things like that dont matter. big lies matter. like, "no, im not seeing someone else," or "no, i didnt vote for bush"...

If you're willing to lie about little things, what's stopping you from lying about bigger things? The way I see it, the relations between little lies and big lies is like the domino effect. You may start out with little white lies, but you soon progress onto bigger and bigger lies until you've completely screwed yourself.

Or so you say, see the problem with that plan is that by the time you get to that stage, you're so deep that you must either bare all and risk losing some important trust, or keep on lying until it all collapases around you.

Give a specific example of this sort of thing, and I will clarify what I would do in that circumstance. I think we are thinking about different kinds of "little lies."

You could say it's none of their business.

So, you don't consider witholding that kind of information to be lying (what if they are the one I am attracted to?)

So, you don't consider witholding that kind of information to be lying (what if they are the one I am attracted to?)

I do not consider witholding information that you deemed personal and private to be lying.

Yes, but the problem with the apperance, is that it's just an illusion. To date, I've never met anyone who could've kept up the illusion of honesty for long. Usually they would trip over their own feet, and the illusion is destoryed, everything is revealed.

How do you know they couldn't keep up the illusion of honesty? If they're good at it, the whole point is that you DONT know. OK, think of 10 people who you really think are really honest. Chances are, probably 50% of them are bullshitting you successfully.

And of course it's a question of degree. You have to pick your lies. You can't just lie about *everything* just for the sake of it. You have to mix it in with honesty just to be sane. And you have to have a good memory, or else you forget your own lies.

But it helps that most people are willing to trust in appearances and see other people as they wish them to be, not as they are.

Give a specific example of this sort of thing, and I will clarify what I would do in that circumstance. I think we are thinking about different kinds of "little lies."

Hmmm, I can't really come up with an example right now, I'll have to get back to you on that.

I do not consider witholding information that you deemed personal and private to be lying.

Ok, I understand. Now I'm off to bed. It's been nice chatting.

How do you know they couldn't keep up the illusion of honesty? If they're good at it, the whole point is that you DONT know. OK, think of 10 people who you really think are really honest. Chances are, probably 50% of them are bullshitting you successfully.

I can tell when their lies become too great and they start to contradict itself. The problem with creating the list is that simply it's impossible for anyone of us to list 10 people who were really honest. Of course we're never going to stop lying in this society. However that doesn't mean that we shouldn't hold honesty as an important thing to have.


And of course it's a question of degree. You have to pick your lies. You can't just lie about *everything* just for the sake of it. You have to mix it in with honesty just to be sane. And you have to have a good memory, or else you forget your own lies.

That what people who failed at the illusion do. They forget their own lies and then they contridict themselves.

I can tell when their lies become too great and they start to contradict itself.

Yeah, that's *bad* lying though, not just being dishonest.

The problem with creating the list is that simply it's impossible for anyone of us to list 10 people who were really honest.

And what a sad comment on our times it is...

Of course we're never going to stop lying in this society. However that doesn't mean that we shouldn't hold honesty as an important thing to have.

I don't know. Why should we? You gain more by lying, sometimes. Lies are profitable. There's a reason everyone does it, after all. And most of the most powerful and well-known and well-respected people in the world are liars. Like Jesus. Didn't he say something about saving everyone? I haven't seen him save a single goddamn person. I want my money back.

That what people who failed at the illusion do. They forget their own lies and then they contridict themselves.

So the ones who succeed remember their lies.

Not that hard to do, especially if you're not a compulsive liar who lies constantly.

I don't know. Why should we? You gain more by lying, sometimes. Lies are profitable. There's a reason everyone does it, after all. And most of the most powerful and well-known and well-respected people in the world are liars. Like Jesus. Didn't he say something about saving everyone? I haven't seen him save a single goddamn person. I want my money back.


We should be honest because it'll not only foster trust, but if we contiune the lying, then down the road we'll become a society filled with paranoid people. Also, Jesus wasn't a liar. He did come to save everyone's imortal soul. If you studied the Jewish faith, they believe that only a perfect person can enter into heaven. Since we are humans, we are falliable by nature, we will never be perfect. That is where Jesus came in. He was perfect, and thus he died for our sins, so that we may enter into heaven. Though his blood we are saved.

Yup, honesty is very important. I used to lie a bit, but no more, not for years. It didn't get me anywhere.

We should be honest because it'll not only foster trust, but if we contiune the lying, then down the road we'll become a society filled with paranoid people.

You can be honest sometimes and foster trust. Hell, you can be lying, and in so doing foster trust. As I said, people don't trust simply based on actual honesty. How many people trust complete liars? Lots!

As for a society of paranoid people... I'd say we're already there, to be honest.

Also, Jesus wasn't a liar. He did come to save everyone's imortal soul.

Hogwash. The soul's immortality, or existence even, is itself a lie.

If you studied the Jewish faith, they believe that only a perfect person can enter into heaven. Since we are humans, we are falliable by nature, we will never be perfect. That is where Jesus came in. He was perfect, and thus he died for our sins, so that we may enter into heaven. Though his blood we are saved.

I've heard the story, believe me. And it's a lie. How can anyone believe this? It's the biggest lie of all, looks like. Heaven, hell, sins, on and on and on. If people weren't raised from birth, culture and societal programming to believe in this crap, no one would believe it.

If I died because my friend told a hate group where I was hiding because he didn't want to lie, I'd be more hurt by that than the hate group would have been if he had remained silent. I'm not talking just about emotional hurt, I am also talking about phyiscal hurt.

There is a world of difference between lying and offering up information. There is no valid gray area here, it is simply a way to find a justification for being a liar. Once one is known as a liar, there is never any way to justify it or gloss it over. They have ruined any hope of ever regaining the postion they once held in exactly the same manner as one who cheats on their spouse. Once caught, that shadow will always be there. It simply is not worth it.

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?

I agree. Honesty is very important. Without honesty being present as the foundation of any good relationship, everything else you may consider to be positive about that person is probably not true about them as well.

Lying is not a problem in my opinion. The way my friends and I deal with it, is to have a way of ensuring that the other person is not lying, by having a final boundary. For everyone else, they are fair game. When I don't do my homework and I come into school should I say it outright to the teacher? No, I forgot it. Or my printer wasn't working, my school laptop ran out of power etc. I see no problem with that, to escape punishment I'll lie. Remember I do have school-phobia, and so I do find doing the work etc very difficult to get down to. However I don't want to announce that to all the teachers and any pupils that are listening. Make sence?

Oh, and I have never found that escaltion that you were commenting on to exist. I know if I go too far I get found out, so I am careful to just go as far as I can.

Lying is not a problem in my opinion. The way my friends and I deal with it, is to have a way of ensuring that the other person is not lying, by having a final boundary. For everyone else, they are fair game. When I don't do my homework and I come into school should I say it outright to the teacher? No, I forgot it. Or my printer wasn't working, my school laptop ran out of power etc. I see no problem with that, to escape punishment I'll lie. Remember I do have school-phobia, and so I do find doing the work etc very difficult to get down to. However I don't want to announce that to all the teachers and any pupils that are listening. Make sence?

Oh, and I have never found that escaltion that you were commenting on to exist. I know if I go too far I get found out, so I am careful to just go as far as I can.

Are you aware however that you are setting yourself up in a pattern that will be found out at some point? If not in school, later when you enter the workforce? It isn't a matter of if. It is a matter of when.

It surely depends on the situation. In most cases i think honesty is very important, but to protect me from conflicts i will lie whereever i could...thats the reason, why a special female will not count me as a friend...

Honesty is essential. I wouldn't even start a relationship with anybody if I couldn't ascertain reasonable honesty (I understand that nobody's perfect and tells a fib every now and then.

Not that I condone it of course..

Honesty any form of relationship is important to me. If I find out someone I trusted has been lying to me, it hurts, even when they're trying to shield me from something they think would hurt me more.

It depends. I try not to lie, but will do so to protect myself emotionally if necessary.
Being lied to... I somehow expect that of people.

Honesty is very important in a relationship because it builds trust, and you build a relationship around trust. If you can't trust the person you're with to tell you the truth then the relationship is doomed to fail (at least in my experience). I think that "little white lies" are needed, or allowed from time to time, but when it comes to the big things within a relationship you have to be able to communicate them with each other knowing that you're getting the entire story.

Honesty is vital.
That said, I will lie in some cases. If I have to protect myself, then I will lie like a dog. that is only in extreme cases. I will always lie to protect someone else if I feel it is needed.

It surely depends on the situation. In most cases i think honesty is very important, but to protect me from conflicts i will lie whereever i could...thats the reason, why a special female will not count me as a friend...

*lol
Don't be too sad. There's so many special females for you ... :fluffle:

There is a world of difference between lying and offering up information.

Oh, really? What if they ask you where your friend is hiding? If you say you don't know, that is lying, and if you dodge the question, odds are, they'll go after you... (the hate group in this example is very angry :upyours: )

I've never lied, other than this one.

depends on the lie. i sincerely try not to these days, but i guess some are unavoidable. if you can't be trusted then, as someone else said here, you're shit.

i think what really matters is being truthful where it counts. one can't 'never tell a lie', so what matters is the reputation you upkeep (whether people trust you or know if you're lying or going to be telling the truth), the aggrigate lying:truth ratio, and at least trying not to lie all the time.

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?
doesnt it depend on the kind of lie? if she lied about being married, cut her loose; if she lied about her shoe size, shake your head and keep dating her.

so what did she lie about? not specifics but what magnitude of lie caused you to dump a girl you were getting along with?

the thing is, everyone lies. i know this because i read it in scientific american. not just everyone, but chimpanzees lie. even my CAT lies.

i consider myself a very honest person but i lie now and then. not big lies but lies nonetheless. quite often its to get someone i dont care about off my back or to shoo them away from topics i dont want them prying into.

so the point is, i guess, that its not lying but whether or not the lies a person tells YOU indicate a lack of respect for you or are, in effect, privacy lies (its none of your business where i ate lunch yesterday). or, for some people, if it reflects a philosophy of life or a psychological problem.

Depends. If I miss a class because going to the bar with a mate I haven't seen in a while was more inviting, the next week I'll tell the tutor I was ill, and all is well.

Lies are a huge part of being human. For me, itt would have to depend what the lying is about, how often it happens, and how good they are at it.

Moderation in all things. I love honesty and truth more than anything in the world, but I try not to be morbid about it.

When it comes to big issues like beliefs, relationships, etc., I am always honest but not to foster trust with others or avoid getting punished for lying. I do it because these issues define who I am, and if I lied about them I would be denying myself. I would be ashamed to do that. I will never do it. I would rather take a bullet than do that. Seriously. I certainly don't worry about losing friends over it.

I've seen plenty of big-issue liars who lie for all kinds of reasons, but regardless of their reasons, they were always people who were just not in control of their lives, who had no idea what they wanted or how to get it. They didn't have any real sense of themselves as people. Above all, they were afraid of the people around them. And they were all terribly unhappy.

That said, however, lies are necessary to society. Lies, used judiciously, can ease social interactions, even to the extent of preventing war.

For instance, for all my "I'd rather take a bullet," I still lie like a rug when it comes to people I don't like pressing me to give a reason why I'm not giving them whatever they want from me, and I don't want to say it's because I don't care whether they live or die because I think they'll try to retaliate against me and I can't cut them out of my life for some reason -- it's a relative or a boss or something like that. I also lie on behalf of third parties, as when someone I can't cut out of my life asks me for a friend's new phone number. I don't want to inflict this person on my friend, so I lie and say I don't have their number. I'll spin as elaborate a lie as it takes to get them to believe it and quit asking. Such lies help me keep peace in my life, but I don't like having to tell them. If I can't be honest with a person, I will cut them out as soon as I can -- if I can.

I think we can let ourselves use lies this way and still avoid the slippery slope (little lies becoming big lies) by having that strong, clear sense of ourselves. When we know ourselves, then the lines we won't cross are our own lines, not society's, and those are our natural limits and thus much easier to stick to.

I guess this is why I think there's such a thing as an honest liar.

Even a liar can be honest if he knows and admits that he's a liar. The worst thing is a liar who insists he's telling the truth.

If one bases a story on twisted or incomplete facts and/or information, one would still be telling the truth, as it is known to him, but he would be lying in the eyes of another person who has more/less and/or other information.

So, lying and honesty are both quite relative.


I can safetly say that honesty is important to me, as long as it benefits me.

Oh, I adore honesty to the extent that I live my life by its every tenet.

Oh, I adore honesty to the extent that I live my life by its every tenet.

Anyone who says that is clearly lying. :p

If one bases a story on twisted or incomplete facts and/or information, one would still be telling the truth, as it is known to him, but he would be lying in the eyes of another person who has more/less and/or other information.

So, lying and honesty are both quite relative.


I can safetly say that honesty is important to me, as long as it benefits me.
We need to recognize the difference between lying and being wrong. If he truly believes the information to be true, then he is wrong, but not lying, but if it's proven to him that the information is false and he still tells the same story, then at that point, he has begun lying -- i.e. presenting something he knows to be false as if it were true.

That's the whole argument over the justification for starting the Iraq war. Was the President lying about WMDs, or was he mistaken due to bad information? I would have been satisfied to think he was mistaken, but his subsequent defense not only of the war but also of the information that has been proven to be bad makes me suspect he was lying -- that he knew the information was bad and used it anyway. There's no proof either way on this, and I guess this goes to the effect of truth/lying on trust.

I think more people would trust this president if he had either just said he was wrong and quit trying to justify the war, or if he admitted he was lying but then came up with a truthful reason for why he told that lie. We still might think he was wrong to do it, but we might have a better opinion of his character.

Just like Clinton, once he was exposed, should have just admitted to his affair and to his attempt to lie about it. If he had, I really don't think people would have held it against him as much.

Lying screwed me over and I've always found honesty to be the better solution in the end, however hard or painful, so I'm trying to be as honest as possible (though that doesn't include with teachers or to dismiss personal questions from people who aren't my friends).

Lying screwed me over and I've always found honesty to be the better solution in the end, however hard or painful, so I'm trying to be as honest as possible (though that doesn't include with teachers or to dismiss personal questions from people who aren't my friends).

Lying screwed me over recently, too, and not a minute goes by that I don't regret it. :(

Lying screwed me over and I've always found honesty to be the better solution in the end, however hard or painful, so I'm trying to be as honest as possible (though that doesn't include with teachers or to dismiss personal questions from people who aren't my friends).
:fluffle: (i don't lie with you... and i never intend to start :-) )
good day btw? i'm working for a while longer... bah!

Honesty isn't all that important to me. Respect is more important, if they respect me they won't lie to me anyway.

We need to recognize the difference between lying and being wrong. If he truly believes the information to be true, then he is wrong, but not lying, but if it's proven to him that the information is false and he still tells the same story, then at that point, he has begun lying -- i.e. presenting something he knows to be false as if it were true.

That's the whole argument over the justification for starting the Iraq war. Was the President lying about WMDs, or was he mistaken due to bad information? I would have been satisfied to think he was mistaken, but his subsequent defense not only of the war but also of the information that has been proven to be bad makes me suspect he was lying -- that he knew the information was bad and used it anyway. There's no proof either way on this, and I guess this goes to the effect of truth/lying on trust.

I think more people would trust this president if he had either just said he was wrong and quit trying to justify the war, or if he admitted he was lying but then came up with a truthful reason for why he told that lie. We still might think he was wrong to do it, but we might have a better opinion of his character.

Just like Clinton, once he was exposed, should have just admitted to his affair and to his attempt to lie about it. If he had, I really don't think people would have held it against him as much.
politicians are so used to lying that they dont even know what a lie is anymore

its not a party affiliation thing its a politics thing. they just are so used to selfjustification for lying that they dont even recognize it as lying any more

its a lie when you say something you know is not true

its a lie when you IMPLY something you know is not true

its a lie when you tell the truth but people INFER something false and you dont correct them

its a lie when someone else lies for you

its a lie when you tell what you thought was the truth but then you find out that it wasnt true and you dont correct it.

its a lie when you are asked for the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" but you only tell the parts that make you look good

its a lie when you make a mental reservation that OK the lie in your mind.

Lying screwed me over recently, too, and not a minute goes by that I don't regret it. :(
I was lucky in that, in one of the situations, I told the truth finally and was forgiven.

In the other, the person who matters most to me knows the truth and still loves me, and while I wish I could go back and untell the lie, I'm too cowardly/think it would hurt my other friends too much to tell the truth so I just moved on from it. I was lucky that I could - though it still haunts me to some extent.

:fluffle: if you ever want to talk, TG me as someone non-judgemental who'll understand...

:fluffle: (i don't lie with you... and i never intend to start :-) )
good day btw? i'm working for a while longer... bah!
:fluffle: I started off by telling you the truth about stuff straight off (mainly meant as a warning off really... :P) and I plan to continue that way :-) *hugs* love you too much to jeapordise our relationship...
yep, fairly good actually :-) how about you? glad to hear work will be less stressful :-)*hugs*

I was lucky in that, in one of the situations, I told the truth finally and was forgiven.

In the other, the person who matters most to me knows the truth and still loves me, and while I wish I could go back and untell the lie, I'm too cowardly/think it would hurt my other friends too much to tell the truth so I just moved on from it. I was lucky that I could - though it still haunts me to some extent.

:fluffle: if you ever want to talk, TG me as someone non-judgemental who'll understand...



Thanks for your kind offer, but I'm not really able to talk about it right now (in fact, just typing this is getting my stomach all knotted up). Still hurts too much. My lies cost me someone I love a great deal, and I'm sure I'll never be forgiven. :(

Thanks for your kind offer, but I'm not really able to talk about it right now (in fact, just typing this is getting my stomach all knotted up). Still hurts too much. My lies cost me someone I love a great deal, and I'm sure I'll never be forgiven. :(
Well, the offer's always there *hugs*
You never know what's going to happen. Relationships and life in general can take infinite paths, so there is always hope, either to be forgiven and regain the person you lost, or to be happy in another situation.

I never lie. Except just now.

Honesty is important with close relationships (unless they ask you if their new favorite dress makes them look fat, then you say "no, no you dont.") but lying is okay like say when you need to lie to a potential employer when you tell them that you do't do drugs and that you plan on staying forever as you allude to them that you are definitely not gay because you can find women attractive.

I'll lie whenever it serves my purpose. The ends justify the means.

I'll lie whenever it serves my purpose. The ends justify the means.

I'm afraid you'll find that way of thinking rarely ends well.

... when you need to lie to a potential employer when you tell them that you do't do drugs and that you plan on staying forever as you allude to them that you are definitely not gay because you can find women attractive.
But that you wouldn't hit on any of your coworkers anyway and would keep all of your personal affairs out of the office and never waste the company's time by looking at NS General at work.

But that you wouldn't hit on any of your coworkers anyway and would keep all of your personal affairs out of the office and never waste the company's time by looking at NS General at work.


yes, exactly

<.< >.>

I'm afraid you'll find that way of thinking rarely ends well.

It has, it does, and it will. You just have to know when and when not to lie, and about what. Weigh your options. What works for me may not work for you, so don't act like you know what you're talking about with anyone but yourself.

Well, the offer's always there *hugs*
You never know what's going to happen. Relationships and life in general can take infinite paths, so there is always hope, either to be forgiven and regain the person you lost, or to be happy in another situation.

Thanks, Glitz. I'd like to think there were some hope for the former, but I'm sure there isn't. I royally screwed up.

doesnt it depend on the kind of lie? if she lied about being married, cut her loose; if she lied about her shoe size, shake your head and keep dating her.

so what did she lie about? not specifics but what magnitude of lie caused you to dump a girl you were getting along with?


Well, she lied about going to a friends house for the weekend, where in fact she just stayed home because she wanted some time alone. She also dragged her friend into the lie, so I had two people lie to me. So that's why I broke it off. I mean if she wanted some time alone, all she had to do was tell me and everything would've been fine.

Well, she lied about going to a friends house for the weekend, where in fact she just stayed home because she wanted some time alone. She also dragged her friend into the lie, so I had two people lie to me. So that's why I broke it off. I mean if she wanted some time alone, all she had to do was tell me and everything would've been fine.

Sounds like you have a control issue.

I think honesty is the best way to go. There are exceptions, of course. I'd lie to save a friend's life (like that hate group scenario), or my own life (like when my GF asks if her dress makes her look fat), but those are exceptions to the rule.

Well, she lied about going to a friends house for the weekend, where in fact she just stayed home because she wanted some time alone. She also dragged her friend into the lie, so I had two people lie to me. So that's why I broke it off. I mean if she wanted some time alone, all she had to do was tell me and everything would've been fine.

Sounds like you were being a bit pushy (no offence, just first impression). She didn't want to tell you that she wanted some time alone, says that she thought you would mind. Something to talk to her about yes, but to break up over? Not unless there was something else going on.

Sounds like you have a control issue.

Yea, but if she's going to lie about where she is going for a weekend, then how can I trust her when she says she's just going to go to a party with a few of her female friends?

Only on extemely, extremely rare occasions do I lie for serious reasons. The number of times I've intentionally lied as such is probably less than two digits, and I can't remember the last time I did it. I really value my integrity, and always strive to keep it intact (successfully so far...) Of course, much more frequently I lie to be funny, in a way that is completely obvious that I am not telling the truth. In fact, it is so obvious, that sometimes when I am telling the truth, my presentation makes people think that I might be lying, even if it's completely plausible.

In other people, I almost take honesty for granted. If someone tells me something on which I have to take their word for it, I almost always do, unless it's definitely clear that it's not true. Luckily, I usually don't find evidence that people have lied to me. In my friends, I would be confused/annoyed at best and very angry or hurt at worst (depending on the situation) if I found out one of them lied to me in a non-joking way, unless it was about a topic sensitive to them, in which case I would probably be a little more forgiving. I've never been in a romantic relationship, but I'm quite sure that I would have even less tolerance for lying than I do with friends.

Sounds like you were being a bit pushy (no offence, just first impression). She didn't want to tell you that she wanted some time alone, says that she thought you would mind. Something to talk to her about yes, but to break up over? Not unless there was something else going on.

Yea, but to lie this early on, when we haven't even pass beyond 2 weeks... Not a good way to start things off.

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?
Every relationship is based on trust, and all trust is based on being honest. The fastest way to end a relationship is to destroy the trust level by lying to the other.

Yea, but to lie this early on, when we haven't even pass beyond 2 weeks... Not a good way to start things off.

I can see why you would think that. Did you speak to her about it? What did she say when you asked why she didn't tell the truth?

I can see why you would think that. Did you speak to her about it? What did she say when you asked why she didn't tell the truth?

Yes I did give her a chance to explain, she said that she told other people that she wanted to be alone, and they got pissed. So she didn't want me to get pissed, so she lied to me. I'm still breaking it off though.

Yes I did give her a chance to explain, she said that she told other people that she wanted to be alone, and they got pissed. So she didn't want me to get pissed, so she lied to me. I'm still breaking it off though.

Fair enough. It was your call. But perhaps a little bit of understanding might have helped. It is ovious she has had problems before, so you can understand that she was a little wary. Do you like her in every other way? Is this the only reason you don't want to go out with her any more?

Fair enough. It was your call. But perhaps a little bit of understanding might have helped. It is ovious she has had problems before, so you can understand that she was a little wary. Do you like her in every other way? Is this the only reason you don't want to go out with her any more?

No, she told other people the truth where she was this weekend, but lied to me. I'm sorry, but I was raised in a family where honesty is VERY important, and to be able to trust my girlfriend, I got to have that honesty. I just don't have that trust with her right now.

Anyone who says that is clearly lying. :p

Really?

No, she told other people the truth where she was this weekend, but lied to me. I'm sorry, but I was raised in a family where honesty is VERY important, and to be able to trust my girlfriend, I got to have that honesty. I just don't have that trust with her right now.
i agree with you. if she is going to lie about something that has no real reason for lies, what is she going to do when something is going on that really needs honesty to get through? if she cant bring herself to tell a man she has dated for 2 weeks that she wants to spend the weekend away from him, she has some serious problems that you dont need to buy into.

i agree with you. if she is going to lie about something that has no real reason for lies, what is she going to do when something is going on that really needs honesty to get through? if she cant bring herself to tell a man she has dated for 2 weeks that she wants to spend the weekend away from him, she has some serious problems that you dont need to buy into.

Yep, which is why I'm single.

Come and get me baby! lol :p

No, she told other people the truth where she was this weekend, but lied to me. I'm sorry, but I was raised in a family where honesty is VERY important, and to be able to trust my girlfriend, I got to have that honesty. I just don't have that trust with her right now.

Well she lied to you because you were taking on the part of whoever caused her to become paranoid about those she dates. She wasn't sure how you'd react, and so lied. Others were not clouded by prejudice, and so did not. But fair enough, you made your choice. Good luck in the future :)

Honesty is very important to me, especially if you are my significant other or a friend.

If you are a complete stranger, and your lies don't harm me or my loved ones, then I really don't care what you say although when I let somebody into my life, lying is unacceptable.

I think it depends on context. If I ask someone if an outfit makes me look fat and it does, lie to me. If the dinner that I spent 3 hours and $100 preparing is the pits, lie to me. If my baby girl looks like Winston Churchill or Eleanor Roosevelt, lie to me. If it's life threatening, tell me the truth. I guess I'm saying that, if it's trivial and a lie will spare feelings, then lie. If it's not trivial and a lie would be harmful, then tell the truth.

I don't think Bush is the best president we have ever had but I am definately sure he isn't the worst. I think the people who say he is the worst are ignorant of what other presidents have done.

I don't think Bush is the best president we have ever had but I am definately sure he isn't the worst. I think the people who say he is the worst are ignorant of what other presidents have done.

And how does this relate to honesty?

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?
I don't take honesty as the badge to inflict on everyone and tell myself i'm sincere and have honour because i have the "courage" to tell everyone, as a few posters here like to think about themselves (not you, they know who they are)
But i do think that if a topic is serious and requires serious consideration, one should be as honest as possible. Not that there isn't a fancy and places that levity and bizarre behaviour are good engagements (obviously, given my posting history).
I also believe though that, given no malicious interference, a person who needs to know the truth about something will find it, and it is their sovereignty to do so. And it isn't necessarily anyone else's responsibility to them for it ...

now, another good question...is deciet through neglect (IE, I didn't lie, but I just didn't say the truth) respectable? or is it still a lie?

now, another good question...is deciet through neglect (IE, I didn't lie, but I just didn't say the truth) respectable? or is it still a lie?

Again, a matter of context. Sometimes it's best to say nothing.

politicians are so used to lying that they dont even know what a lie is anymore

its not a party affiliation thing its a politics thing. they just are so used to selfjustification for lying that they dont even recognize it as lying any more

its a lie when you say something you know is not true

its a lie when you IMPLY something you know is not true

its a lie when you tell the truth but people INFER something false and you dont correct them

its a lie when someone else lies for you

its a lie when you tell what you thought was the truth but then you find out that it wasnt true and you dont correct it.

its a lie when you are asked for the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" but you only tell the parts that make you look good

its a lie when you make a mental reservation that OK the lie in your mind.
Yep, pretty much. <nods> Good reference list.

Well, she lied about going to a friends house for the weekend, where in fact she just stayed home because she wanted some time alone. She also dragged her friend into the lie, so I had two people lie to me. So that's why I broke it off. I mean if she wanted some time alone, all she had to do was tell me and everything would've been fine.
That's a tough call.

On the one hand I think you over-reacted, but on the other hand it's a stupid lie. I might have over-reacted myself if I'd been the guy in this story. If she wanted time alone she didn't have to make up a big soap opera with supporting actors involved. All she had to do was claim PMS and cramps so bad if she sees you, she'll kill you. Always worked for me when a boyfriend wouldn't take "I don't want to go out tonight" for an answer.

That's a tough call.

On the one hand I think you over-reacted, but on the other hand it's a stupid lie. I might have over-reacted myself if I'd been the guy in this story. If she wanted time alone she didn't have to make up a big soap opera with supporting actors involved. All she had to do was claim PMS and cramps so bad if she sees you, she'll kill you. Always worked for me when a boyfriend wouldn't take "I don't want to go out tonight" for an answer.

If someone's willing to lie to you over stupid things like this, though, how can you trust them on issues that will actually be important later?
I have to say that trust is my #1 issue. I can't imagine how it would be possible to hold a meaningful, serious relationship without a good deal of trust.

If someone's willing to lie to you over stupid things like this, though, how can you trust them on issues that will actually be important later?
I have to say that trust is my #1 issue. I can't imagine how it would be possible to hold a meaningful, serious relationship without a good deal of trust.Depends. I had something similar happen to me and I found out about it. I forgave the girl and didn't inform her that I knew because I thought she was doing it not to hurt my feelings. I have since found out things that cast doubt on that, though.

To me, a relationship has a foundation. That foundation haven't even been fully laid yet with this woman, and already she caused a crack in it. So, thats a symbolic way to put it.

Well, she lied about going to a friends house for the weekend, where in fact she just stayed home because she wanted some time alone. She also dragged her friend into the lie, so I had two people lie to me. So that's why I broke it off. I mean if she wanted some time alone, all she had to do was tell me and everything would've been fine.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe she just didnt want to hurt your feelings?

Honesty is the only important thing. Almost everything else can be traced to one's take on the truth.

now, another good question...is deciet through neglect (IE, I didn't lie, but I just didn't say the truth) respectable? or is it still a lie?
depends on if you owe the person information. if im talking to my neighbor about his house and i dont mention that i think his chimney needs to be fixed, im not lying through neglect because i dont owe him my opinion. if he asked me specifically about maintenence issues that he might be overlooking and i dont mention his obviously tipping chimney, ive done him wrong.

if you have implied in the conversation that you are giving "the whole truth" and you dont give the whole truth, its lying. if there is no expectation that you will tell everything, then its not lying

so if your wife is wearing a beautiful dress that makes her butt look big and you only say "wow thats a beautiful dress", you didnt lie. (supposing she didnt ask about her butt)

If someone's willing to lie to you over stupid things like this, though, how can you trust them on issues that will actually be important later?
I have to say that trust is my #1 issue. I can't imagine how it would be possible to hold a meaningful, serious relationship without a good deal of trust.
Trust, feh! Indifference is far more reliable.

But seriously, as I said in my first big long pedantic post in this thread, for me honesty is not about what others do; it's about what I do. I can't control what others think, feel, or choose to do. I can only control my own choices, and the things I will not lie about are vitally linked to my sense of myself as a person. The same goes for what kind of lies I will or will not tolerate from others. I have had excellent relationships with several notorious liars because I have found through experience that they are reliable on the things that matter to me. But on the other hand, I've dated guys who lied about things or in ways that did matter to me, and I dumped them super-quick -- not so much because I couldn't trust them as because I couldn't respect them.

We all have to draw our own lines about what we'll take from others and what we won't. For me, the simple act of lying is not an automatic deal-breaker. It might be different for you.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe she just didnt want to hurt your feelings?

You'd think if she was concerned about that she would've been truthful in the first place. Finding out that a girl you're dating not only lied to you, got her friends to lie, and told other people the truth, hurts alot worse than "I want to be alone for a while." I am generally a understanding guy, I can understand alone time.

Honesty is the only important thing. Almost everything else can be traced to one's take on the truth.
That's a very interesting idea.

I guess that's why I say that honesty is about self, not others. How can you measure anything until you know your own limits?

I just ended the dating period of a girl I was seeing (we wern't too serious yet, just met) because she lied to me. To me, honesty is VERY important. I believe that in order for people to trust, you and for you to be able to trust people, you got to have honesty. I just simply can't have a relationship or friendship with someone who lies. To me, lying and keeping secrets is a betrayal of my trust, and I will not stand for it. So, how important is honesty to yall?

Lying...yes, agreed. Keeping secrets? Different matter. What you appear to be doing there is confusing (as many of my girlfriends of the past have done) openness with honesty. They'd be open about things many others would keep inside. They wouldn't be honest about things they should have been. I've always been the other way round, honest as the day is long, but with certain things suppressed or closed inside me, mainly out of a misguided idea i am protecting the world and those i love from my horribleness.

The current housemate/ex basically split up with me because i went back inside these walls during a period of depression on her part, not because i was aloof, as she thought, but because i didn't want to dump things on her at a difficult period (yeah, also deciding she wasn't hugely physically attracted to me also had an impact, i'm sure). It was my mistake there. The irony is, of course, now she's chasing other men(which, much as my groin and heart cry out about, she has every right to do), being sporadically open and honest about it, and then at other points, plain out not revealing anything, or she'll do the classic trick "reveal a certain amount of information as distraction" (this, by the way, as someone who has dealt with a large number of liars in his life - which i am not calling her, btw...it's not like we are still boyf and girlf...if she was doing it while we were an item i'd use that term, but she didn't, and i believe she's only doing it to protect my feelings, which does show some care...either that or she's looking to protect the place she lives. I go for the former as it feels right - this is possibly the best way of lying known to man or womankind...as long as you pick the correct targets - trying shit like that with someone like me, mired in the cynicism of my own failures, it don't work. However, a large proportion of men under the age of 30 would fall for it, i know i did when i were that age).

What can i say? Steer clear of liars, yeah. But don't judge someone as a liar simply because they don't fulfill the vogue of the past 20-30 years or so for constant unburdening and whining about their inner pain. Don't confuse that with emotional honesty. I have, and look where it got me. Balding, single, and living with an ex who is about 1000% more likely to have sex than me this decade.

:)