NationStates Jolt Archive

The first trial regarding what is being dubbed the "nuclear mafia", apparently headed by a leading figure in the Pakistani nuclear program, A.Q. Khan, has begun in Germany.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,405847,00.html
The building itself is modest. Dating from the 1960s, it's covered with rust-brown steel siding on the outside and nicotine-yellow ceiling tiles on the inside. But the building, a courthouse in the German city of Mannheim, has been charged with a vitally important mission -- case number 25 Kls 613 Js 17967/05. The mission is that of saving humanity, and it starts at 10:00 a.m. this Friday.

There are two ways to describe the case against German engineer and businessman Gotthard Lerch coming before the Mannheim District Court. One involves the complex language of Germany's War Weapons Control Act and Foreign Trade Act -- the language of the indictment against Lerch. The other description is much easier to understand. Lerch stands accused of aiding and abetting the end of the world through nuclear Armageddon.
This article provides a good outline of what went on for years without anyone noticing apparently.

Maybe this case and others like it could provide vital evidence proving that Iran is really after weapons, not power plants?

And why has Musharraf pardoned Dr. Khan?

Pff, and there I thought people cared about nuclear proliferation.

Question, do you beleive Iran is going after weapons?

Because for some reason I always thought you were pro-Iran getting nuclear....but your post seems to state otherwise.

Atleast thats what I'm getting from it.

I thought this had to do with Khan from Star Trek! :(

Question, do you beleive Iran is going after weapons?
Yes.

On the other hand, I know enough about the subject to know that it'll be another ten years until they can be expected to have one, even if they take a straight route from here.

Seriously, I don't like Ahmadinejad either, and I don't think any country should have nukes. So I don't agree with Iran having them any more than I agree with Israel having them. Plus there is the issue of that leading to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and so on also developing nukes. They don't like Iran either, and once Iran has them, Israel will publicly declare theirs.

I thought a new Mongolian warlord was going on a conquest with nukes.

Yes.

On the other hand, I know enough about the subject to know that it'll be another ten years until they can be expected to have one, even if they take a straight route from here.

Seriously, I don't like Ahmadinejad either, and I don't think any country should have nukes. So I don't agree with Iran having them any more than I agree with Israel having them. Plus there is the issue of that leading to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and so on also developing nukes. They don't like Iran either, and once Iran has them, Israel will publicly declare theirs.

Yes, well...nukes make even the rightest of us nervious...I know I am.

But I have two things to say.

For Iran....even if it takes a while for them to get nukes...do you think America and Europe should take action now or very soon to stop them? If yes then what kind of action?

And concerning Israel having nukes. While I dont really like any country having nukes, I would much rather prefer a defensive country like Israel having them than an aggressive one like Iran. Do you agree that Iran or any other middle eastern nation having nukes is a bigger threat to EVERYONE than a nuclear Israel?

Yes.

On the other hand, I know enough about the subject to know that it'll be another ten years until they can be expected to have one, even if they take a straight route from here.

Seriously, I don't like Ahmadinejad either, and I don't think any country should have nukes. So I don't agree with Iran having them any more than I agree with Israel having them. Plus there is the issue of that leading to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and so on also developing nukes. They don't like Iran either, and once Iran has them, Israel will publicly declare theirs.
We should get some nukes too. Strauss had the right idea.

And concerning Israel having nukes. While I dont really like any country having nukes, I would much rather prefer a defensive country like Israel having them than an aggressive one like Iran. Do you agree that Iran or any other middle eastern nation having nukes is a bigger threat to EVERYONE than a nuclear Israel?
Nope, that's just your bias speaking.

Nope, that's just your bias speaking.

But come on, even if you dont like Israel...and its not exactly MY favorite country, you HAVE to admit...its alot more stable and defensive than, oh lets say...Iran or Sudan.

Do you agree, yes or no?

There was a long feature in the atlantic a couple months ago about Dr Khan.

Very interesting stuff.

We should get some nukes too. Strauss had the right idea.

You're one of those nations that is estimated could develop nuclear weapons within a year or two if you so chose.

You're one of those nations that is estimated could develop nuclear weapons within a year or two if you so chose.
I heard it was months. But one or two years sounds reasonably as well.

And why has Musharraf pardoned Dr. Khan?

What else can he do?

Admit the truth that people in the establishment were involved in the proliferation?

Khan was the fall guy. The culpability goes to the highest levels of Pakistani administration and to some in the US administration, who were very well aware of the proliferation but gave it a blind eye.

I heard it was months. But one or two years sounds reasonably as well.

General estimates are six months to a year to produce, but a year or two in any meaningful amount. I guess that means that if Germany wanted to suddenly have a nuclear arsenal the rival of France or the UK, it would be a year or two before they were there.

You know, some of the nations that are considered nuclear-able surprise me.

You know this is completly of topic, but am I the only one that thinks the title for this thread sounds like the name for a band:p

You know this is completly of topic, but am I the only one that thinks the title for this thread sounds like the name for a band:p

Yeah. That would be a pretty kickass band name.

You know, some of the nations that are considered nuclear-able surprise me.
How so?

For Iran....even if it takes a while for them to get nukes...do you think America and Europe should take action now or very soon to stop them? If yes then what kind of action?
The thing is that ultimately we have little if anything on them. Yes, they have sought plans for a bomb, but that is not really that conclusive evidence.
Everything they have done so far in terms of testing centrifuges and so on was legal. They are encouraged to do so since they are members of the NPT.
The NPT is faulty in that it allows members to basically take advantage of it, to then suddenly quit and change course, as North Korea did.

The legal basis we have is quite slim. The military course is not advisable, even the White House knows that. Iraq would immediately be destroyed, and that cannot be good for anyone.

So I suppose we can try sanctions...but that won't do much. I now tend to resign a little bit into our fate. The West screwed this one up, thanks to American moralistic crusading in Iraq (ignoring the real danger), the EU because it too got to preoccupied with the American plans. And when the focus finally came to Iran, the West was toothless.

They'll have the Bomb, I think it's just a question of time.

And concerning Israel having nukes. While I dont really like any country having nukes, I would much rather prefer a defensive country like Israel having them than an aggressive one like Iran. Do you agree that Iran or any other middle eastern nation having nukes is a bigger threat to EVERYONE than a nuclear Israel?
Israel isn't anymore defensive than Iran is. It starts a lot of attacks on Palestinian cities (all in 'retaliation', but still offensives), it was the first country to introduce nukes to the Middle East. And considering people like Netanyahu, and various extremist religious parties and settler organisations, it's not nearly as stable as many seem to think.
On the other hand, Iran ultimately won't use its nukes offensively either. Rhetoric is one thing, destroying Iran and themselves quite another (not to forget that the Arrow II system will shoot down anything Iran can send for years to come). It's a matter of making sure that the US will not attack, and it's a project of national pride.

How so?

Well, in addition to Germany, Canada, Japan, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands and Saudi Arabia are all considered to be nuclear-able. Germany, Italy, and Japan don't really surprise me, and I guess Canada doesn't really either, but Lithuania, Netherlands, and Saudi Arabia are not nations I would have thought were that able.

Well, in addition to Germany, Canada, Japan, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands and Saudi Arabia are all considered to be nuclear-able. Germany, Italy, and Japan don't really surprise me, and I guess Canada doesn't really either, but Lithuania, Netherlands, and Saudi Arabia are not nations I would have thought were that able.
Well, all it takes is money and relations (as in the Saudi's case), a nuclear industry (as in Holland's case) or lots and lots of left-over Soviet know-how and/or parts as in the Baltic.

Finland is currently building the largets nuclear reactor complex ever, I'm pretty sure they could too. South Africa gave up its nukes, and I'd be surprised if Brazil or Argentina couldn't produce them if they wanted.

Well, in addition to Germany, Canada, Japan, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands and Saudi Arabia are all considered to be nuclear-able. Germany, Italy, and Japan don't really surprise me, and I guess Canada doesn't really either, but Lithuania, Netherlands, and Saudi Arabia are not nations I would have thought were that able.

The Netherlands and Saudi Arabia are pretty rich countries with technical know-how. Lithuania, while not all that affluent, has the know-how (Russian inheritance) and together with the other Baltic states could easily develop nukes if they wanted to. The same goes for the Nordic countries, except that they would probably go it alone as they can afford to, and pretty much any Western European one. Except maybe Lichtenstein, Monaco and San Marino, but watch out for those wily Luxembourgians....

Khaaaaaaaaaaaan!

Sorry, it needed to be done.

http://www.doctorpundit.com/images/uploads/khan.jpg
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

Khaaaaaaaaaaaan!

Sorry, it needed to be done.

Always better with a visual aid, though. ;)