NationStates Jolt Archive

This was said in another thread here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472410&page=7) but it merits its own thread.

Hey, if you're doing your part then that's terrific. Work on your buddies, though! Women are made to feel about 100 times worse about our bodies, yet we wear the spandex...the least you guys can do is show some solidarity and show off those packages!

Women are made to feel worse about their bodies than men are (by popular culture?)

I dispute this because all evidence points to men being made to feel worse about their bodies.


Women are encouraged to use clothes to show off their bodies; men are told to conceal their form beneath baggy clothes.
Men are told that getting an erection is bad and must always be hidden (except during sex, of course).
It's more socially acceptable for women to compliment each other's bodies than for men to compliment other men.


What do you think?

I'm a guy and I couldn't give a damn. *shrugs*

Sounds like they [the people mentioned in the OP] need to get out to Finland more often. Sauna and skinny dipping, every morning and night in the summer, such paradise... *reminesces*

Yeah, but women are made to try and conform to the "Stereotypical Norm". This is in the form of Supermodels, Actresses, and Singers. Those Size 1 females who talk down to anyone who isn't thin.

A beer gut on a man does not negate him as a sex symbol.

In Western Society, woman are told to be waif-like so they fit into those oh-so-very small clothes. No matter how unhealthy it can be.

I think we're pretty bad for demanding it of them, but they are stupid for doing it.

4) a Man must have a larger penis than his girlfriends ex and his best friend

5) a man must keep in constant shape

6) when as man goes bold he is ridiculed from society to live as a hideous beast only going to bars if they won’t to have a lonely evening

My 2 cents: Women are made to feel about 100 times worse about their bodies as men are made to feel about 100 times worse about our emotions.

Lots of guys simply don't care how they look. I sure don't.

Men, don't whine. We can't do that! Retain all emotions! Kill deer, fix cars, have sex, watch football, play with the computer, just do something else!

the female form is a icon of desire and beauty in popular culture. arguably, it always has been. i can see how not conforming to that stereotypical vision of popular beauty (re: not having the perfect supermodel body) would make one feel bad about your body, especially when all the clothes and fashions are about showing off what you have and looking good. its a bit of a paradox, but i suppose it all boils down to whether a paricular woman is confident in/with her own body.

whether or not women feel worse than men, i can't tell for sure. i think what i was trying to get at there is that this is a bit of a generalisation... but the same applies to men: dudes with 6-packs and chiseled chins appear all over the place in adverts and in popular media in general. and its not like men aren't made to feel bad about their bodies because of that (hell, i know i do), but i suppose the difference is that women tend to wear more skimpy or show-off-y clothing... maybe thats a reason why women could have reason to feel worse? :confused:

Men, don't whine. We can't do that! Retain all emotions! Kill deer, fix cars, have sex, watch football, play with the computer, just do something else!
"Could you open this jar?"

...

"I nearly had it open. You just did the last bit."

:rolleyes:

Well, it's a proven fact men are attracted more to the physical body than women are, so the popular industry of advertising subscribes to this by introducing their models, actresses, musical artists, etc. in the revealing (i.e. scanty) clothes. Because it makes these people rich and famous, I believe most women feel the need to dress accordingly so they can compete. Personally, I do not understand that way of thinking (being a man and all). I would be willing to bet, however, if the attire of women today was more modest, the instances of rape would drastically decline. As my mom always said, "If you ain't selling something (your body), don't advertise it!".

If you're a guy like me, you don't really sweat much what you look like because I want a woman to be attracted to the unchanging "me" instead of my "changing" body. Of course, it's not like I have any shortage of "takers" if I would only accept them all. I am really picky and choosy.

((shaking head wondering how I got so far off topic)):rolleyes:

I don't think it's something you can really compare. I certainly can't see either sex as getting it worse than the other - every time I think of an argument for one side, an argument for the other pops up. Also, it's hard to put yourself in a situation you'll never be in.

I just think, in general, people are made to feel bad about themselves by this perpetual image of "perfection" and the "right way" to be.

I just think, in general, people are made to feel bad about themselves by this perpetual image of "perfection" and the "right way" to be.
too right
you manage to eloquenty cut through my crap and say what i meant in such a more concise way... again! *shakes fist*
ah i love it really :P

Mmmmm, I'm going to disagree here. There was a study sometime back that found that 80% of athletes at a university weren't pleased with their bodies. When athletes can't get a body they want I imagine us regular folk are proper fucked.

Then again, a man can get away without washing or grooming himself for a few days. Women are about four million times bitcher to themselves than to men.

I would be willing to bet, however, if the attire of women today was more modest, the instances of rape would drastically decline. As my mom always said, "If you ain't selling something (your body), don't advertise it!".

You'd lose that bet. The attractiveness and attire of a women have nothing to do with them getting raped. Rape is about power, not sex.

I just think, in general, people are made to feel bad about themselves by this perpetual image of "perfection" and the "right way" to be.
Yes.

Flat tummy.
Sculpted arms, shoulders and legs.
White teeth.
Thick hair, with no gray or white, and styled fashionably.
Contact lenses, not glasses.
Fashionably dressed.

These expectations apply to men and women. 'Defects' must be corrected...too much hair, too little hair, too short, too tall, too skinny, too fat, too plain, too striking....bah. One thing I've realised in life is that we should be happy with what we have, when we have it.

When I was younger, I thought I was hideous. I look back at my pictures from those years and go, 'wow, it's true...youth really is beautiful'. Before I had my kids I thought I was too heavy around the waste. I look back at my pictures and think, 'my friends were right, I was a stick!'. I look at me now, and I think, 'mmm, look at these great curves! I look like a woman. No rock-hard abs, though that'd be nice, and I'll never have an athletic body-type, but listen sister, in 10 years I'm going to be wishing I look as good as I do now!'

You'd lose that bet. The attractiveness and attire of a women have nothing to do with them getting raped. Rape is about power, not sex.
Took the words straight out of my mouth.

I'm not going to be able to pull off "Tall, dark and handsome" no matter how hard I try. And the standard set for me in a romance novel, forget about it...

However, walk by a magazine rack and do a comparison, there are a lot fewer images for me to live up to then there are women.

I think it's more complex than a 'this bad, this good' kind of thing, but if the issue is who gets the short end of the stick, it's women. I can accept that without insisting, "No, I hurt too."

. There was a study sometime back that found that 80% of athletes at a university weren't pleased with their bodies.
Psst, that's why they became athletes. But, that's based on my expeirence with such people. Who are all really great, but when you can bench a moose and have wash-board abs, I'm not really inclined to listen to you nitpick your body.

*thinks*

What the heck is an athelte anyhow? Just someone that does at least one physical activity on a regular basis? Look out, I'm an athlete! :p

Well, it's a proven fact men are attracted more to the physical body than women are, so the popular industry of advertising subscribes to this by introducing their models, actresses, musical artists, etc. in the revealing (i.e. scanty) clothes.
If this a proven fact then you should have no problem sourcing it. I remain skeptical.

If you're a guy like me, you don't really sweat much what you look like because I want a woman to be attracted to the unchanging "me" instead of my "changing" body.
I know what you mean here. That's not to say I don't care about my appearance; it does matter to a degree but I don't think it's worth obsessing over. I think that this goes for both men and women. I'm not usually attracted to girls who put too much effort into their appearance and not enough into being interesting.

I think it's more complex than a 'this bad, this good' kind of thing, but if the issue is who gets the short end of the stick, it's women. I can accept that without insisting, "No, I hurt too."
I agree that women do have more images of "ideals" shoved in their faces. But at least they are not told that their bodies are inherently unattractive like men are.

I agree that women do have more images of "ideals" shoved in their faces. But at least they are not told that their bodies are inherently unattractive like men are.

Which only results in more pressure. The message you get is "You have the ability to look like a goddess, it's your responsibility to put in every effort to achieve that"

You'd lose that bet. The attractiveness and attire of a women have nothing to do with them getting raped. Rape is about power, not sex.

What I was trying to say is-and if you're not a guy I don't expect you to understand this-a man is many times more likely to turn his head if the woman is dressed inappropriately than if she is properly covered. Is this what she is trying to accomplish? Not always. However, if the man does not look, her chances of being raped have plummeted. I'm not saying a girl who is "unattractive" won't be raped, nor will a "beauty" be attacked, I just speaking in generalities.

I don't think it's something you can really compare. I certainly can't see either sex as getting it worse than the other - every time I think of an argument for one side, an argument for the other pops up. Also, it's hard to put yourself in a situation you'll never be in.

I just think, in general, people are made to feel bad about themselves by this perpetual image of "perfection" and the "right way" to be.

Whilst fully disagreeing with the latter, insofar as perfection is the ultimate aim of human endeavour, the former is correct.

Neither the male nor female pressure to be attractive is comparable; the former is unspoken, silent yet compelling, the latter a more popularly recognised, publicised and vocalised need to be attractive.

I think I have proven that an uncouth, unkempt barbarian can get the girl too. :p

In my opinion, it's about being comfortable in one's skin.

I think that women are bombarded with more looks and fashion propaganda than men and I think that a rather alarming percentage of women are uncomfortable enough with themselves to believe the messages that they are badly flawed and have to do these things to be better looking.

Whilst fully disagreeing with the latter, insofar as perfection is the ultimate aim of human endeavour, the former is correct.
But there isn't a perfect appearance. I could agree with you, perhaps, if there was perfection. But there isn't.

But there isn't a perfect appearance. I could agree with you, perhaps, if there was perfection. But there isn't.

One must also consider the division between popular culture, to which such "beauty" is endemic, and more the intellectual culture, which emphasises character having primacy to image.

Moreover, the perfect appearance is subjective. Hence why no unified image can be found.

What I was trying to say is-and if you're not a guy I don't expect you to understand this-a man is many times more likely to turn his head if the woman is dressed inappropriately than if she is properly covered. Is this what she is trying to accomplish? Not always. However, if the man does not look, her chances of being raped have plummeted. I'm not saying a girl who is "unattractive" won't be raped, nor will a "beauty" be attacked, I just speaking in generalities.

I am a guy. Anyway, most rapes are planned. Most people are raped by people they know. Most rapes happen inside houses. Put these three facts together and you'll find the defensive power of dressing plainly is a myth.

Women are expected to wear make-up, but men aren't.

What I was trying to say is-and if you're not a guy I don't expect you to understand this-a man is many times more likely to turn his head if the woman is dressed inappropriately than if she is properly covered. Is this what she is trying to accomplish? Not always. However, if the man does not look, her chances of being raped have plummeted. I'm not saying a girl who is "unattractive" won't be raped, nor will a "beauty" be attacked, I just speaking in generalities.
Uninformed generalities. Men looking at women does not lead to rape. Men looking for a victim choose their victims according to the level of opportunity for the crime. Hot chick surrounded by friends, low level of opportunity. Chick in a frickin' potato sack, walking home drunk, alone, in a dark alley, high level of opportunity. Clothes are not a factor worth mentioning. But while you continue to perpetuate this myth, rapists continue to blame others for their crimes, and put the onus on women to avoid rape, rather than on rapists to not fucking perpetrate it.

What I was trying to say is-and if you're not a guy I don't expect you to understand this-a man is many times more likely to turn his head if the woman is dressed inappropriately than if she is properly covered. Is this what she is trying to accomplish? Not always. However, if the man does not look, her chances of being raped have plummeted. I'm not saying a girl who is "unattractive" won't be raped, nor will a "beauty" be attacked, I just speaking in generalities.So all men are at heart rapists? And by your account, nuns who are raped are asking for it, yes?

As has already been pointed out to you, rape has nothing, zip, nada, zilch to do with attraction. The rape victim is a mark, prey to the sexual predator, not a slightly unwilling love interest.

What I was trying to say is-and if you're not a guy I don't expect you to understand this-a man is many times more likely to turn his head if the woman is dressed inappropriately than if she is properly covered. Is this what she is trying to accomplish? Not always. However, if the man does not look, her chances of being raped have plummeted. I'm not saying a girl who is "unattractive" won't be raped, nor will a "beauty" be attacked, I just speaking in generalities.
Rapists don't decide on the spur of the moment, when they seem someone attractive, to rape them. That's rubbish. Your "generalities" aren't based on even some truth.

If appearance has any effect on being raped, it's more likely that someone who blends into the background and isn't the centre of attention will be raped, or someone with features such as long hair to pull.

Women are expected to wear make-up, but men aren't.
You aren't looking closely at the teenage boys you walk by, are you:D

Which only results in more pressure. The message you get is "You have the ability to look like a goddess, it's your responsibility to put in every effort to achieve that"
Bad as that may be it's still better than, "you're ugly no matter what." I'm personally sick and tired of hearing that women are the more beautiful sex as if it's some sort of objective fact.

One must also consider the division between popular culture, to which such "beauty" is endemic, and more the intellectual culture, which emphasises character having primacy to image.

Moreover, the perfect appearance is subjective. Hence why no unified image can be found.
For one thing, bodies and physical appearance was what this thread was about. For another, while I see your point about the intellectual culture, I still don't think that is solely the judge of someone and is not the most important thing about a person's character so there still is no ultimate perfection imo.

Bad as that may be it's still better than, "you're ugly no matter what." I'm personally sick and tired of hearing that women are the more beautiful sex as if it's some sort of objective fact.
Blame that on gendered notions of 'beauty'. Females must be good-looking in a feminine manner, which is almost all about looks...it's 'okay' if they are mindless twits. Men are considered attractive for reasons in addition to their physical appearance. So fight the power! Either we can all be mindless, good-looking twits, or we start recognising that looks alone aren't enough to make someone hot.

For one thing, bodies and physical appearance was what this thread was about. For another, while I see your point about the intellectual culture, I still don't think that is solely the judge of someone and is not the most important thing about a person's character so there still is no ultimate perfection imo.

Indeed, it is merely that the compulsion to conform to the supermodel ideal is one unique to "popular" culture, and derided by the remainder of society. However, the pressure children, from a negligable age, are under to conform to such an ideal is not healthy.

Bad as that may be it's still better than, "you're ugly no matter what." I'm personally sick and tired of hearing that women are the more beautiful sex as if it's some sort of objective fact.

I find both sexes attractive... and do take a look at those pics of myself. I've heard "You're ugly, no matter what" more than once in my life.
Just one question : Just how often did it happen to you that complete strangers feel compelled to inform you of the fact that you are "one ugly bitch", and yell abuse at you in broad daylight in a public place, and you actually see people standing at a distance nodding? You tell me that's not pressure...

Just one question : Just how often did it happen to you that complete strangers feel compelled to inform you of the fact that you are "one ugly bitch", and yell abuse at you in broad daylight in a public place, and you actually see people standing at a distance nodding? You tell me that's not pressure...

That is horrible beyond words.

Women are expected to wear make-up, but men aren't.

i wish i could wear make-up to cover up my panda eyes.

while i don't disagree that women are under more pressure to look good according to the current social ideal i think that the pressure comes mostly from women themselves - just look at celebrity gossip rags or fashion magazines: largely written by women for women. okay the fashion and cosmetic industries that profit off this are largely controlled by men but women don't have to submit to the consumer culture that they are targetted by. and men are under pressure to conform to a social ideal as well - large muscles, large penises, a chin you could strike match off, 6' plus, toned stomach and pecs etc. - and this pressure comes from both men and women (although probably mostly from men). if we all just stopped trying to fuck with each others body image and stop listening to the marketing bullshit that's thrown at us we'd all be a lot happier.

Blame that on gendered notions of 'beauty'. Females must be good-looking in a feminine manner, which is almost all about looks...it's 'okay' if they are mindless twits. Men are considered attractive for reasons in addition to their physical appearance. So fight the power! Either we can all be mindless, good-looking twits, or we start recognising that looks alone aren't enough to make someone hot.

hear, hear! well said :D

I find both sexes attractive... and do take a look at those pics of myself. I've heard "You're ugly, no matter what" more than once in my life.
Just one question : Just how often did it happen to you that complete strangers feel compelled to inform you of the fact that you are "one ugly bitch", and yell abuse at you in broad daylight in a public place, and you actually see people standing at a distance nodding? You tell me that's not pressure...


Think of the mentality of the person you describe making these comments.
Sounds like an insecure, hateful cretin to me. Most likely with an exceptionally feeling of inadequacy-for good reasons. And people nodding? Think of the posse or lynch-mob mentality. People are like lemmings being led by the nose. A bunch of spineless, smug, shitbirds.

you'd forget all about that and feel like a barbie princess when I was through with you...

Indeed, it is merely that the compulsion to conform to the supermodel ideal is one unique to "popular" culture, and derided by the remainder of society. However, the pressure children, from a negligable age, are under to conform to such an ideal is not healthy.
Of course.
Though the pressure put on people to look "perfect" seems to be everywhere I turn, and not just in the "popular" culture. In nearly everyone I see there's - to some extent - this idea ingrained and perpetuated. Perhaps this is soley due to "popular" culture, but to suggest it's only in that culture and that the remainder of society isn't affected much by and just derides it doesn't hold with me.

On a sidenote, it's not just in appearances, but I hate ideas for perfection in relationships, behaviour, outlooks on life, fitting gender roles...

Just one question : Just how often did it happen to you that complete strangers feel compelled to inform you of the fact that you are "one ugly bitch", and yell abuse at you in broad daylight in a public place, and you actually see people standing at a distance nodding? You tell me that's not pressure...
No... it's not pressure. It's assault. Was the attacker male or female?

I'm sorry that you ever had to go through that, but remember that we're talking about women and men in general and not individuals. Few people, male or female have undergone an experience like the one above. That's not cultural pressure. It's just some bastard venting abuse.

No... it's not pressure. It's assault. Was the attacker male or female?

I'm sorry that you ever had to go through that, but remember that we're talking about women and men in general and not individuals. Few people, male or female have undergone an experience like the one above. That's not cultural pressure. It's just some bastard venting abuse.


I agree. This is more one unhappy bastard, puffed up by the spineless punks he keeps as company.

While the experience must have been unbearable, the opinions of these people have no value.

Think of the mentality of the person you describe making these comments.
Sounds like an insecure, hateful cretin to me. Most likely with an exceptionally feeling of inadequacy-for good reasons. And people nodding? Think of the posse or lynch-mob mentality. People are like lemmings being led by the nose. A bunch of spineless, smug, shitbirds.

you'd forget all about that and feel like a barbie princess when I was through with you...

*lol
Is that a promise? I never felt like dressing all in pink ever before :D

And, yes, I know perfectly well that that bastard was some poor low-life with an IQ a little below that of an average egg-plant, no future to speak of and that in fact, if anything, he deserved my pity.
It still hurt. And it still is an awful amount of pressure. And I know perfectly well that I'm not the only woman who has to put up with that, on a regular basis. At least I could walk away from that guy. I couldn't walk away from my father when he told me more or less the exact same things. And that, sad as it is, is reatity for a very large number of women and girls.

Something that's been annoying me is that make-up companies like l'Oreal are beginning to do this to men too. They try to convince us that we're ugly and women won't want us unless we use their products...

No... it's not pressure. It's assault. Was the attacker male or female?

I'm sorry that you ever had to go through that, but remember that we're talking about women and men in general and not individuals. Few people, male or female have undergone an experience like the one above. That's not cultural pressure. It's just some bastard venting abuse.

Male.
I'm not talking as an individual here, I know that I'm not the only one who experienced situations like this.

*lol
Is that a promise? I never felt like dressing all in pink ever before :D

And, yes, I know perfectly well that that bastard was some poor low-life with an IQ a little below that of an average egg-plant, no future to speak of and that in fact, if anything, he deserved my pity.
It still hurt. And it still is an awful amount of pressure. And I know perfectly well that I'm not the only woman who has to put up with that, on a regular basis. At least I could walk away from that guy. I couldn't walk away from my father when he told me more or less the exact same things. And that, sad as it is, is reatity for a very large number of women and girls.


You might. ;)

Of course it hurt. I hate to hear that happened and a father that treats his own child like that is reprehensible. I can only imagine how low an opinion he had of himself as well. Thats disgusting and shameful.

You might. ;)

Of course it hurt. I hate to hear that happened and a father that treats his own child like that is reprehensible. I can only imagine how low an opinion he had of himself as well. Thats disgusting and shameful.

So you're going to dress me up in pink, and then what? ;)

Well... it was some childhood. It's past, most of the time (apart from the nightmares, but what can you do?), and I haven't spoken to him in 9 years now anyway.

You aren't looking closely at the teenage boys you walk by, are you:DWell, aside from the tiny "goth" subculture, men aren't expected to wear make-up, but women are. That better? :)

while i don't disagree that women are under more pressure to look good according to the current social ideal i think that the pressure comes mostly from women themselves - just look at celebrity gossip rags or fashion magazines: largely written by women for women. okay the fashion and cosmetic industries that profit off this are largely controlled by men but women don't have to submit to the consumer culture that they are targetted by. and men are under pressure to conform to a social ideal as well - large muscles, large penises, a chin you could strike match off, 6' plus, toned stomach and pecs etc. - and this pressure comes from both men and women (although probably mostly from men). if we all just stopped trying to fuck with each others body image and stop listening to the marketing bullshit that's thrown at us we'd all be a lot happier.Perhaps this is the case, there is certainly a lot of evidence for it. I suppose the answer is too look at which women men go for: the women who wear make-up or the women who don't.

Perhaps this is the case, there is certainly a lot of evidence for it. I suppose the answer is too look at which women men go for: the women who wear make-up or the women who don't.

I've seen a number of "What's your perfect gf/bf" threads right here on NS. There were a number of men saying they don't like women who wear too much make up, many more who said they don't like women who are chubby/fat, and none at all who said they didn't like a tanned body with nice big boobs and a good ass.
The girls still seemed to put a lot of focus on eyes, smile, personality and common interests, despite all the efforts of the marketing industry. Although I seem to recall that many asked for personal hygene, and prefered tall men.

So you're going to dress me up in pink, and then what? ;)

Well... it was some childhood. It's past, most of the time (apart from the nightmares, but what can you do?), and I haven't spoken to him in 9 years now anyway.

We'll think of something involving unicorns and lace.

I almost feel guilty having had a relatively good childhood. I'm dead set on giving my three kids the best childhood I can-not focusing on material items, but more in support, nurturing, attention, etc...
So far, I'm rewarded with children that seem to be well adjusted and confident for the most part. They are mostly very well behaved. Certainly above average, based on my experience with others & their kids.
I feel like I'm doing something right.

I'm always aware of the kids that are neglected physically and emotionally. Its so much more of a dedicated commitement to have kids that I'm afraid many dont realize until its too late.

Yeah, but women are made to try and conform to the "Stereotypical Norm". This is in the form of Supermodels, Actresses, and Singers. Those Size 1 females who talk down to anyone who isn't thin.

Pretty much.

I think women are more directly told they need improvement, while men are given subtle clues(which makes no sense, since the reverse seems like it would be more effective).

Here is how I came to this conclusion:

Women
- contantly bombarded by tv/advertising to be thin
- Insults, etc. about looks are considered very offensive
- Direct marketing for cosmetics, etc. trying to imply improvement is needed
- Plastic surgery targeting women boobs, lips, facelifts, etc.

Men
- As children, taunted for poor performance in sports(go work out)
- Dating( you're ugly but I won't say it)
- Work how many studies have shown links between in-shape guys with full heads of hair being supervisors, vs. fat baldies?

I am a guy. Anyway, most rapes are planned. Most people are raped by people they know. Most rapes happen inside houses. Put these three facts together and you'll find the defensive power of dressing plainly is a myth.

And even those men who would attack women they don't know have said in interviews that they were more likely to go after a woman in baggy clothing - especially overalls - because they are easier to get ahold of and to cut off. They also tended to go for women with longer hair - again because it gave them something to grab to try and control the woman.

i wish i could wear make-up to cover up my panda eyes.

"Panda eyes"? What does that mean?

And anyways, if you want to wear makeup to cover them up, you should! Don't give in to some stereotyped gender role.


On the first question, I think it the culture that tells women we have to show off our bodies that makes us more uncomfortable about them. If you are a woman like me, who will never fit into a single-digit size, even when perfectly fit (like I'll ever reach that goal), society seems to think you have a problem. People are moving away from that a bit - there are stores like Lane Bryant that cater to larger women (and by larger, I don't mean "fat", although some who shop there are overweight) - which is a good thing, since I can't find clothes that actually fit anywhere else. But the mentality that we should all be thin and be able to wear string bikinis and look good is always out there.

Men certainly have "ideals" (and I say this with a bit of derision) that they are told they must live up to - but less of them are related to appearance than women.

if you think western society is trying to make you feel bad or embarrased about your body, try living somwwhere that they require you to wear a veil and be clad from toe to crown. Thats denegration.

If you are a woman like me, who will never fit into a single-digit size, even when perfectly fit (like I'll ever reach that goal), society seems to think you have a problem.
Bull shit. If you really wanted to, you could. Everyone could

Bull shit. If you really wanted to, you could. Everyone could

Sorry darling. My hips alone wouldn't fit into a single-digit size, nor would my breasts.

The fact that you assume otherwise is idiotic. It also proves that you are part of the problem. I would have to be extremely unhealthy to even get down to a 10, much less below. The fact that you would suggest that I should do such a thing is exactly the problem.

I'm sorry that every human being doesn't fit into nice neat little size 0's for you.

Bull shit. If you really wanted to, you could. Everyone could
Too right.

Be slim, embrace anorexia today.

if you think western society is trying to make you feel bad or embarrased about your body, try living somwwhere that they require you to wear a veil and be clad from toe to crown. Thats denegration.

However, I do understand where Islam is coming from with the whole head scarf thing. In today's society women are considered to be sex objects. It is considered out of style in high school to not wear something revealing. Pants come in two styles, hiphuggers and havig a waist at the waist. You can't wear the latter to school, that would be uncool.
I'm not saying everyone should start wearing head scarves, but I unstand thier point of view. Burkas, on the otherhand, are a little too extreme.

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway? I've never been able to get an answer for that question. I mean, sure, extreme obesity is not attractive, but aren't men biologically attracted to curves instead of sticks?

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway? I've never been able to get an answer for that question. I mean, sure, extreme obesity is not attractive, but aren't men biologically attracted to curves instead of sticks?
Beats me most of my friends like there to be atleast some meat on a girl.

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway? I've never been able to get an answer for that question. I mean, sure, extreme obesity is not attractive, but aren't men biologically attracted to curves instead of sticks?

It's been my experience that men prefer women who have curves-not boney skinny women. Jennifer Lopez has a million times better body that those skinny run way models.In my opinion.

It's been my experience that men prefer women who have curves-not boney skinny women. Jennifer Lopez has a million times better body that those skinny run way models.In my opinion.
Yes, agreed.

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway? I've never been able to get an answer for that question. I mean, sure, extreme obesity is not attractive, but aren't men biologically attracted to curves instead of sticks?

i have to say i don't no anyone who fancies rake thin girls and i certainly don't

"Panda eyes"? What does that mean?

i have dark rings around my eyes constantly from lack of sleep and having very fair skin. have done since i was very young cuz i don't get to sleep very easily or at all some times. someone said i looked like a heroine addict the other day though i don't believe they are quite that bad!

Though society kinda encourages that notion that women must show off their bodies and that you are less a woman if you do not look a certain way, you do not in any way have to live by anyone else's preconceived notions and let it rule your life.

I've spent my entire life bucking societal trends. If they can't accept you as you are, screw 'em.

I would have to be extremely unhealthy to even get down to a 10, much less below.
:rolleyes:
I'm sorry that every human being doesn't fit into nice neat little size 0's for you.
As am I.
Be slim, embrace anorexia today.
It’s a life style just like any other. Extreme overeating is just as bad, but nobody gets committed for that.

It’s a life style just like any other. Extreme overeating is just as bad, but nobody gets committed for that.

Except that anorexia will kill you much faster. Plus, it's an actual mental disease.

If anything, women are made to feel BETTER about their bodies.

Unclothed women are "nude," but unclothed men are "naked."

And in movies, nude women can easily rate an R rating, but naked men garner the NC-17 rating. Because men are filthier and nastier.

For women, good looks is about enhancing their beauty.

For men, good looks is about eliminating our faults.

Women are expected to be concerned over their beauty, but men are not since it's expected men are ugly chunks no matter what.

A beautiful woman can make hundreds of dollars a night just dancing naked at a bar. A man just gets arrested if he tries that.

Venus, the deity of Beauty, is a goddess. Where's the greek or roman god of stunning good looks? Adonis maybe? Some half-assed minor deity.

Women are constantly lusted after for their bodies. Even if they're not good looking! The very fact that they're female garners instant attraction. Don't tell me the same is true for men, cuz it ain't!

Lesbian porn attracts men, and even straight women. On the other hand, gay porn is hideous and is only appealing to gay men.

Women are beautiful, their bodies are beautiful, objects of art and worship. Men are hairy, lumpy and generally smelly too. Women are goddesses, men are the next thing up from leprousy. So quit complaining.

If anything, women are made to feel BETTER about their bodies.

Unclothed women are "nude," but unclothed men are "naked."

And in movies, nude women can easily rate an R rating, but naked men garner the NC-17 rating. Because men are filthier and nastier.

For women, good looks is about enhancing their beauty.

For men, good looks is about eliminating our faults.

Women are expected to be concerned over their beauty, but men are not since it's expected men are ugly chunks no matter what.

A beautiful woman can make hundreds of dollars a night just dancing naked at a bar. A man just gets arrested if he tries that.

Venus, the deity of Beauty, is a goddess. Where's the greek or roman god of stunning good looks? Adonis maybe? Some half-assed minor deity.

Women are constantly lusted after for their bodies. Even if they're not good looking! The very fact that they're female garners instant attraction. Don't tell me the same is true for men, cuz it ain't!

Lesbian porn attracts men, and even straight women. On the other hand, gay porn is hideous and is only appealing to gay men.

Women are beautiful, their bodies are beautiful, objects of art and worship. Men are hairy, lumpy and generally smelly too. Women are goddesses, men are the next thing up from leprousy. So quit complaining.

Actually, no.
Women are constantly told that they have to be goddesses, as proved amply by Undelia's post. No excuses for not fitting the morbid ideal are accepted. You don't fit a single digit size, it's your own fault. Work harder.
Men are told that there's no point in looking beautiful at all, just keep shaved and you're ok.

Actually, no.
Women are constantly told that they have to be goddesses

Nonsense. If you're referring to marketing or advertising, well, men are told that they *have to be* good looking, honest, rich, sporty, smart...

It's not like insecurities are only targeted toward women.

And the male body is culturally treated like a skin disease. Keep it out of sight! Grooooss!

Nonsense. If you're referring to marketing or advertising, well, men are told that they *have to be* good looking, honest, rich, sporty, smart...

It's not like insecurities are only targeted toward women.

And the male body is culturally treated like a skin disease. Keep it out of sight! Grooooss!

I'm not refering to marketing or advertising (although those do add to the problem). When was the last time a person told you to your face that you should be rich, sporty, smart etc. but aren't?
It does happen when you're a girl, though. People will feel the need to inform you that they don't think you look beautiful enough.

I'm not refering to marketing or advertising (although those do add to the problem). When was the last time a person told you to your face that you should be rich, sporty, smart etc. but aren't?
It does happen when you're a girl, though. People will feel the need to inform you that they don't think you look beautiful enough.

That's just rudeness. And yes, I have been told I don't make enough money, or that I don't play the right sports, or often enough, etc. To my face. So what of that?

And the male body is culturally treated like a skin disease. Keep it out of sight! Grooooss!It is true that male bodies are expected to be kept out of sight, but I'm not sure if this is due to women not liking male bodies or simply male prudery. For instance, in either the "Male Genitalia Q&A" thread or the "Men: Why Do You Put Up With Urinals?" thread, someone (a man) said that in his experience, women will walk around naked in front of you if you've accidentally seen them naked before, but the only place a man would walk around naked in front of you is in a group shower (military) scenario; even if you've seen him naked in a group shower, you're not going to see him naked in the barracks. Is this because women don't like to see naked men because male bodies are ugly or men don't like to see naked men because it makes them feel gay?

However, I do understand where Islam is coming from with the whole head scarf thing. In today's society women are considered to be sex objects. It is considered out of style in high school to not wear something revealing. Pants come in two styles, hiphuggers and havig a waist at the waist. You can't wear the latter to school, that would be uncool.
I'm not saying everyone should start wearing head scarves, but I unstand thier point of view. Burkas, on the otherhand, are a little too extreme.

sorry, I dont buy that. The patriarchy that sets the social rules states that women must dress that way, and that is so men will not be tempted to adultry. Of course, that means that when a woman is raped, or when adultry does occur, the woman is a slut, a whore, immoral, and must be stoned, because she must have provoked it, as the apparel prevented the man from being tempted. Yeah right.

The point is, even a blind man will objectify women. It is a trick of natural selection to insure the propagation of species.

The cross cultural idea figure for a woman, from the male point of view, is a waist that is around 0.75 times the size of the hips. Ladies, you can have hippo hips, as long as you dont have a hippo waste.

Likewise, a aesthetically appealing man is going to have a waist that is about 0.85-0.9 times the size of his hips.

The media ideal of the waiflike female is perpetuated by females and (gays?) in the fashion industry. They choose to display the figure that they are attracted to, and thats a male like figure. I know i wouldnt display a figure that didnt evoke my muse, or my nether regions.

Look at what teenaged boys playing females in mmorpgs use... buxom,hippy, tiny waists.

Again,look at what teenage girls drool over. I recall the fem-teen fervor over the elf guy in LoTR... while the older women liked Aragorn. Guys thought the elf was a girly little twat.

I find both sexes attractive... and do take a look at those pics of myself. I've heard "You're ugly, no matter what" more than once in my life.
Just one question : Just how often did it happen to you that complete strangers feel compelled to inform you of the fact that you are "one ugly bitch", and yell abuse at you in broad daylight in a public place, and you actually see people standing at a distance nodding? You tell me that's not pressure...

My God, that's like seeing a bunch of people clubbing puppies to death in the middle of the street, and others cheering them on.

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway?
They don't.

For women, good looks is about enhancing their beauty.

For men, good looks is about eliminating our faults.

Good post, I mostly agree.

Again,look at what teenage girls drool over. I recall the fem-teen fervor over the elf guy in LoTR... while the older women liked Aragorn. Guys thought the elf was a girly little twat.
Yeah, beardless, blond, long hair, borderline effeminate Orlando Bloom or moderately bearded, dark hair, borderline scruffy Viggo Mortensen. Strange that.

Well, aside from the tiny "goth" subculture, men aren't expected to wear make-up, but women are. That better? :)

Perhaps this is the case, there is certainly a lot of evidence for it. I suppose the answer is too look at which women men go for: the women who wear make-up or the women who don't.

Actually, most women feel they are expected to wear make-up. But I think really it is WOMEN who expect other women to wear make-up. I practically never wear makeup, and women are the ones who react badly to my lack, not men. Historically, makeup was designed to bring out sexual features, and arouse the opposite sex... I don't think that helps.

Sorry darling. My hips alone wouldn't fit into a single-digit size, nor would my breasts.

The fact that you assume otherwise is idiotic. It also proves that you are part of the problem. I would have to be extremely unhealthy to even get down to a 10, much less below. The fact that you would suggest that I should do such a thing is exactly the problem.

I'm sorry that every human being doesn't fit into nice neat little size 0's for you.

No, most women don't and shouldn't fit into a single digit size. But as illustrated by the "big butts" song, most men don't actually seem to prefer that, anyway. Personally, I do, but I tend to be very atheletic, and not model-thin or small. And I do not expect to be able to do so my entire life, either. But then again, if you ask most men, they have NO idea what size dress most women wear, and don't necessarily find the stick-figures attractive.

Again,look at what teenage girls drool over. I recall the fem-teen fervor over the elf guy in LoTR... while the older women liked Aragorn. Guys thought the elf was a girly little twat.

Eh, well I liked both. Orlando Bloom, though, I don't find at all attractive without the blonde hair. That was an exotic coloring thing for me - because his skin color and hair color and eye color didn't match, it was interesting to my eye. In other things, Orlando just looks effeminate to me. Also, Legolas has been my favorite for YEARS in the books, so anyone playing legolas had a head start. Aragorn (whoever played him, I forget) I have found attractive in other things he's played in, just because he's a good looking sort of a guy.

i have dark rings around my eyes constantly from lack of sleep and having very fair skin. have done since i was very young cuz i don't get to sleep very easily or at all some times. someone said i looked like a heroine addict the other day though i don't believe they are quite that bad!

Oh. Well, makeup wouldn't be much help to you anyways then. I get those too, but trying to cover them up with makeup just makes them look odd. =(

If anything, women are made to feel BETTER about their bodies.

Perhaps. If, and only if, they have whatever is considered the "perfect" body of the time.

Unclothed women are "nude," but unclothed men are "naked."

I've heard both terms applied to both sexes. Generally, the connotations imply what you are doing at the time. A tasteful picture of an unclothed person (male or female) is a "nude", while people who are getting busy are "naked."

And in movies, nude women can easily rate an R rating, but naked men garner the NC-17 rating. Because men are filthier and nastier.

Topless women generally lead to an R. Full frontal of either sex, last time I checked, results in a ratings bump.

For women, good looks is about enhancing their beauty.

For men, good looks is about eliminating our faults.

You've obviously never read a women's magazine. It's all about, "This is what you wear to look thinner. This is how you hide the fact that you have small eyes/big ears/etc.

Women are expected to be concerned over their beauty, but men are not since it's expected men are ugly chunks no matter what.

Where do you get that last part? I've never seen any suggestion that "men are ugly chunks no matter what." I have, however, seen the suggestion that they need not worry about their looks.

A beautiful woman can make hundreds of dollars a night just dancing naked at a bar. A man just gets arrested if he tries that.

If you're ever in Atlanta, I'll take you to Swinging Richard's. We'll see how much the male strippers there make, k?

Venus, the deity of Beauty, is a goddess. Where's the greek or roman god of stunning good looks? Adonis maybe? Some half-assed minor deity.

Do you think it was men or women who came up with the idea of Venus?

Women are constantly lusted after for their bodies. Even if they're not good looking! The very fact that they're female garners instant attraction. Don't tell me the same is true for men, cuz it ain't!

It isn't true for women, unless you are in certain dorms at Georgia Tech, perhaps.

Lesbian porn attracts men, and even straight women. On the other hand, gay porn is hideous and is only appealing to gay men.

I don't find gay porn "hideous" and I have never met anyone other than straight men who think so. I do find it funny, but then again, I find *all* porn funny.

Again,look at what teenage girls drool over. I recall the fem-teen fervor over the elf guy in LoTR... while the older women liked Aragorn. Guys thought the elf was a girly little twat.

Damn. Am I old enough to be called an "older woman" now?


No, most women don't and shouldn't fit into a single digit size. But as illustrated by the "big butts" song, most men don't actually seem to prefer that, anyway. Personally, I do, but I tend to be very atheletic, and not model-thin or small. And I do not expect to be able to do so my entire life, either. But then again, if you ask most men, they have NO idea what size dress most women wear, and don't necessarily find the stick-figures attractive.

This is true. I had a friend call me the other day to ask what a girl who wore a size 6 would look like. He had a headshot of a girl from a casting call and she had sent in her description that she was 5'1" and wore a size 6, but he had *no* idea what that would mean about her body. LOL

Lesbian porn attracts men, and even straight women. On the other hand, gay porn is hideous and is only appealing to gay men.


Hmmm. Ever read much in the way of fanfiction?
The amount of women writing about male/male pairings leads me to disbelieve this particular assumption.

Hmmm. Ever read much in the way of fanfiction?
The amount of women writing about male/male pairings leads me to disbelieve this particular assumption.


Or any Anne Rice novel. Her Vampires are just hideously repressed gay boys.(thats what I got from the movie and memnoch the devil)

Here's my question: Why do men find the stick figures attractive anyway? I've never been able to get an answer for that question. I mean, sure, extreme obesity is not attractive, but aren't men biologically attracted to curves instead of sticks?

Are you kidding? Stick-figure women were inflicted upon us, not something we lust after. Stick-figures came to relative prominance in the mid-60's, and I've yet to meet a man who first fell in love with women like Marilyn Monroe or Grace Kelly who thought it a good thing when all they could find and bed were women like Twiggy. I assure you, not a one of us was thinking "Well thank God I don't have to screw those cows". Rather, we were far more inclined to think "Well, if this is all you have. . ."

Except that anorexia will kill you much faster. Plus, it's an actual mental disease.

You do realize that mental "diseases," because there is no way to gather evidence for their existence empirically, are basically just subjective, artificial labels for certain kinds of behavior, right?

Hmmm. Ever read much in the way of fanfiction?
The amount of women writing about male/male pairings leads me to disbelieve this particular assumption.
Good point. Women like gay men as much as men like lesbians.

Topless women generally lead to an R. Full frontal of either sex, last time I checked, results in a ratings bump.


It usually depends on whether or not there is a sexual connotation to it. Diane Keaton went full-frontal in Something's Got to Give, and IIRC that recieved a PG-13. The kicker, of course, is that there was nothing sexual (pun unintended) about the scene. By contrast, there was no nudity at all in Disclosure, but the mere suggestion of Demi Moore engaging in fellatio brought down an R-rating.

That being said, I cannot think of any movie with male nudity that didn't garner at a minimum an R-rating no matter what the connotation was, and most movies I've seen with male nudity usually had to be trimmed to avoid an NC-17 rating.

Lesbian porn attracts men, and even straight women. On the other hand, gay porn is hideous and is only appealing to gay men.


NOT TRUE!! The second one, I mean. Gay boys are so hot! I remember in 8th grade when my two gay friends first got together and insisted on making out on my bed...

'Course, lesbians are awesome too. It's straight porn that's gross.

You do realize that mental "diseases," because there is no way to gather evidence for their existence empirically, are basically just subjective, artificial labels for certain kinds of behavior, right?

If you ever knew someone who had anorexia, you would know it was a desease.