NationStates Jolt Archive

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Lol I just ran across this thought it would make some interesting discussion

Basically it is a Swedish Torrent tracker site publishing the legal emails they have gotten and their responses ... pretty funny stuff if you ask me

Personally I congratulate them for giving a big FU to these orgs even though I dont use this site

I don't pirate music because I'm some loser who has nothing better to do than commit victimless crimes to prove how awesome he is. I do it because I want music and I don't want to pay for it.

I don't pirate music because I'm some loser who has nothing better to do than commit victimless crimes to prove how awesome he is. I do it because I want music and I don't want to pay for it.

I do it because I don't want to pay through the nose for it.

I do it because I don't want to pay through the nose for it.
I used to ... I buy a lot of CD's now but if they continue fucking with the format I may have to go back to illegal downloaded music just to get it in a format that works on things like mp3-players

I used to ... I buy a lot of CD's now but if they continue fucking with the format I may have to go back to illegal downloaded music just to get it in a format that works on things like mp3-players

Well that's true. The last album I got (a month ago) cannot even play on my computer so it is largely useless to me.

Hardly a great incentive to buy CDs

I am REALLY enjoying the responses to the various email threats:)

Most of the music I download is stuff you can't even get anymore. Latin American folklore that is no longer in circulation. If I can't get these CDs with a reasonable amount of effort (meaning, not having to pay outrageous fees just to get them shipped to me via Chile), then I don't feel too bad downloading them for free. Especially since the artists themselves are dead, and I could care less about enriching their heirs, or whomever bought the rights to the songs. Fuck them.

I am REALLY enjoying the responses to the various email threats:)

It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are fucking morons, and
that you should please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons.

Indeed :)

It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are fucking morons, and
that you should please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons.

Indeed :)
That was definately my favourite quote:) That, and the invoice for the drycleaning of pants that were peed!

Don't you have to go way out of your way to actually get legal threats? I've been pirating music since I was 12 and posting it on my website and I have yet to hear "hey...you should stop that. You know, just a friendly suggestion."

Don't you have to go way out of your way to actually get legal threats? I've been pirating music since I was 12 and posting it on my website and I have yet to hear "hey...you should stop that. You know, just a friendly suggestion."
My brother has been harrassed by his service provider for allowing people to download pirated movies and such. That's as far as it went...he just switched services.

"Also please note that making this email public or ridiculing it will result
in immediate legal action and we are also contacting RipeNCC for suspension."

No! Don't ridicule us! We'll sue you!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHHHAAAAAAA!

Most of the music I download is stuff you can't even get anymore. Latin American folklore that is no longer in circulation. If I can't get these CDs with a reasonable amount of effort (meaning, not having to pay outrageous fees just to get them shipped to me via Chile), then I don't feel too bad downloading them for free. Especially since the artists themselves are dead, and I could care less about enriching their heirs, or whomever bought the rights to the songs. Fuck them.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a Chilean group not be covered under the RIAA?

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a Chilean group not be covered under the RIAA?
I have no idea. All I know is that it's semi-legal, just on this side of shady to download music for free in Canada. What is frowned upon is the uploading of such music, and those people tend to get in more trouble. I'm still not clear on what is legal and what is just 'discouraged'. If you avoid downloading US artists' work, can the RIAA do anything? Meh. I don't actually care...I have about all the music I could ever listen to in a lifetime.

I'm not sure if the CRIA has started suing people yet...it seems that file swapping is not yet curbed here the way it is in the US. But I have no doubt it will be.

I used to ... I buy a lot of CD's now but if they continue fucking with the format I may have to go back to illegal downloaded music just to get it in a format that works on things like mp3-players
I haven't had any problems ripping CDs and playing them on my computer or my mp3 players. Even the 'protected' ones are fairly easy to rip.

I have no idea. All I know is that it's semi-legal, just on this side of shady to download music for free in Canada. What is frowned upon is the uploading of such music, and those people tend to get in more trouble. I'm still not clear on what is legal and what is just 'discouraged'. If you avoid downloading US artists' work, can the RIAA do anything? Meh. I don't actually care...I have about all the music I could ever listen to in a lifetime.

I'm not sure if the CRIA has started suing people yet...it seems that file swapping is not yet curbed here the way it is in the US. But I have no doubt it will be.

I don't know...Does your country value copyrights and money over art, like ours does?

Well this seems vaguely relevent to the thread:

http://www.chumba.com/media/PassItAlong(MP3mix).mp3

I'm not sure if the CRIA has started suing people yet...it seems that file swapping is not yet curbed here the way it is in the US. But I have no doubt it will be.
I don't know, with the announcement a few months ago that not one cent of the tax levied on players, cds, etc. that is going to CRIA has actually ended in the artists' hands they're gonna have an uphill battle with that.

I don't know...Does your country value copyrights and money over art, like ours does?
Not yet.

But our copyright laws are more draconian than those in the US...they just haven't covered the file-sharing issue in as much detail. I have no doubt that this is something that will be soon corrected.

I don't know, with the announcement a few months ago that not one cent of the tax levied on players, cds, etc. that is going to CRIA has actually ended in the artists' hands they're gonna have an uphill battle with that.
Odd...that little headline isn't featured on their (http://www.cria.ca/) site.

Odd...that little headline isn't featured on their (http://www.cria.ca/) site.
I read it in the Metro newspaper, or maybe it was Hub. Can't remember it was some time ago.

For the people having problems listening to CDs on their computers (which I assume are Windows-based): Left-Shift key.

Not yet.

But our copyright laws are more draconian than those in the US...they just haven't covered the file-sharing issue in as much detail. I have no doubt that this is something that will be soon corrected.

I thought everyone uses things like Limewire to get their music. :confused:

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.

For the people having problems listening to CDs on their computers (which I assume are Windows-based): Left-Shift key.

That works.

Thanks.

Andrew Rabbitt was pretty cool about it. Much respect to him.

That works.

Thanks.

::edit::

No it hasn't :(:mad:

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.
Then they should get a real job.

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.

Then they should make sure that their albums aren't too expensive, and that when you get them you can actually play them.

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.

I believe they make most of their money on tour anyway. That can make do with people not buying their CD's that are often full of filler along with their one or two good songs.

Then they should get a real job.
Try these dumbass excuses for stealing on the guy who builds your fence.

"Even though I've benefited from your labors, I've decided that it's not a real job, so I'm not paying you."

"You should be building the fence for the love, man..."

"You'll make your real money on the fence tour, cause I'm totally going to tell my friends about the fence."

"I've decided that while I don't really need a fence, I want one. But it's more than I want to pay for one and I'm not willing to use a cheaper, legal fence provider so I'm just going to not pay you."

"I'm a fucking theif who knows I can get away with it so I'm going to pretend I'm some sort of Robin Hood and take peoples labors and pretend I'm rightious but I'm really just a selfish little prick with a sense of entitlement."

Try these dumbass excuses for stealing on the guy who builds your fence.

"Even though I've benefited from your labors, I've decided that it's not a real job, so I'm not paying you."

"You should be building the fence for the love, man..."

"You'll make your real money on the fence tour, cause I'm totally going to tell my friends about the fence."

"I've decided that while I don't really need a fence, I want one. But it's more than I want to pay for one and I'm not willing to use a cheaper, legal fence provider so I'm just going to not pay you."

"I'm a fucking theif who knows I can get away with it so I'm going to pretend I'm some sort of Robin Hood and take peoples labors and pretend I'm rightious but I'm really just a selfish little prick with a sense of entitlement."

"I can sing! Give me millions of dollars a year!"

::edit::

No it hasn't :(:mad:
Because the copy protection program has already been installed and is now running in your system. You will need to uninstall it first, which will be more or less difficult depending on what it is. Google will be your friend here.

When you put a CD in the computer it tries to read it to "Autoplay" it. In a copy protected CD it autoplays the copy protection program that now will take over your computer and decide what you can do with that CD. If you keep the Left-Shift key pressed while inserting the CD, Autoplay is skipped, I usually keep it down just a bit longer than necessary, just in case, no program runs and you can do anything with the CD. Or you can disable Autoplay altogether.

It's a very stupid copy protection scheme, but the new DVDs are going to make it much much harder.

You can also install Linux on a small partition and use CD paranoia.

Because the copy protection program has already been installed and is now running in your system. You will need to uninstall it first, which will be more or less difficult depending on what it is. Google will be your friend here.

When you put a CD in the computer it tries to read it to "Autoplay" it. In a copy protected CD it autoplays the copy protection program that now will take over your computer and decide what you can do with that CD. If you keep the Left-Shift key pressed while inserting the CD, Autoplay is skipped, I usually keep it down just a bit longer than necessary, just in case, no program runs and you can do anything with the CD. Or you can disable Autoplay altogether.

It's a very stupid copy protection scheme, but the new DVDs are going to make it much much harder.

You can also install Linux on a small partition and use CD paranoia.

Hmm, thanks.

Though I thought I turned autoplay off :confused:

"I can sing! Give me millions of dollars a year!"
"I can swing a bat..." "I can transfer money from company to company" etc.

If a million people each year benefit or enjoy the singing, why not?

It makes more sense than "You can sing, entertain me for free-and don't dare try and make a living off of it..."

Hmm, thanks.

Though I thought I turned autoplay off :confused:
Then maybe your CD uses some other form of copy-protection. Google it, there's tons of information out there with solutions of varying difficulty.

I have 23,000+ tracks thanks to my days as a university hall of residence wireless LAN admin, and I have to say, RIAA can get bent. I have spent hundreds of GBP on music I really want to own, including a lot of stuff I have found out about online. But the prices they charge for music, no way in hell can I afford this many legal tracks. I have played it on internet radio, I will continue to do so, and to be honest I'd be doing the music industry a favour. Their marketing paradigm is simply too obsolete to understand it.

Then maybe your CD uses some other form of copy-protection. Google it, there's tons of information out there with solutions of varying difficulty.

It seems it will just be easier to get a torrent.

I have 23,000+ tracks thanks to my days as a university hall of residence wireless LAN admin, and I have to say, RIAA can get bent. I have spent hundreds of GBP on music I really want to own, including a lot of stuff I have found out about online. But the prices they charge for music, no way in hell can I afford this many legal tracks. I have played it on internet radio, I will continue to do so, and to be honest I'd be doing the music industry a favour. Their marketing paradigm is simply too obsolete to understand it.


So, because you can't afford several thousand of it, you should steal it.

Does this apply to everything? Can I use this in court to explain the Porsche I'm gonna grab tomorrow?

So, because you can't afford several thousand of it, you should steal it.

Does this apply to everything? Can I use this in court to explain the Porsche I'm gonna grab tomorrow?
Welcome to the surreal world of double standards. Enjoy your stay.

Try these dumbass excuses for stealing on the guy who builds your fence.

"Even though I've benefited from your labors, I've decided that it's not a real job, so I'm not paying you."

"You should be building the fence for the love, man..."

"You'll make your real money on the fence tour, cause I'm totally going to tell my friends about the fence."

"I've decided that while I don't really need a fence, I want one. But it's more than I want to pay for one and I'm not willing to use a cheaper, legal fence provider so I'm just going to not pay you."

"I'm a fucking theif who knows I can get away with it so I'm going to pretend I'm some sort of Robin Hood and take peoples labors and pretend I'm rightious but I'm really just a selfish little prick with a sense of entitlement."
Ok, find me a guy who has a fence that can be replicated exponentially (like in Star Trek).

If a million people each year benefit or enjoy the singing, why not?
Because the rights to most songs are rarely held by the artists.

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.
Yeah, especially the ones who are dead. They need the money most of all.

Ok, find me a guy who has a fence that can be replicated exponentially (like in Star Trek).
"I've found a way to steal that allows me to lie to myself about the act, so I'm not going to pay you."

This whole argument is why I love the fact that many underexposed, 'indie' artists freely share their music. I hope this catches on. There are many bands people would never have heard of otherwise, had they not been able to download their music for free.

And I pledge to you NSers, that when I record a CD (this year), I will make it freely available to you all. Because it actually IS about the music, and I make a living doing other things.

Yeah, especially the ones who are dead. They need the money most of all.
Too true. Some of the stuff I have legally bought is J.S. Bach organ performances recorded in the 1950s and 1960s, then digitised, burnt onto a CD by BMG and sold for £16.99. And I actually PAID for a stack of those. You know what, I'm not losing sleep over the crap I got off someone's network drive.

You know what, I'm not losing sleep over the crap I got off someone's network drive.
Well I know my parents didn't lose sleep over the bootlegged tapes they had. I guess I come from a family of 'thieves'. :p

"I've found a way to steal that allows me to lie to myself about the act, so I'm not going to pay you."
You pay the artists by going to concerts, you pay record companies by buying CDs. Sticking it to the man rocks.

I take it you have no VCR tapes in your house with shows that wern't prerecorded, or audio tapes with music that wasn't already on them. Or CDs copied from your friend's CDs.

In my opinion, the best way to get some one to buy your CD is to put the majority your music out for free download. Better marketing because it is easier for people to find and listen to your music and thus want to buy your CD.

One thing is true, though, the way that ideas and knowledge have traditionally been sold is obsolete in this era. A new form of commercial distribution must be found.

Yeah, especially the ones who are dead. They need the money most of all.
Someone spent time and money making it available to you, otherwise it would have been lost.

Unless we're going to argue that there be some 100% inheretence tax, that the labor of one generation should in no way benefit the next, this is still a rationalization argument becuase any other person who earns money is allowed to build something for thier kids, or the people who put up the time and money to get the work out there are entitled to compensation in every other instance.

It's sad that we are more willing to fuck people who are trying to bring a little enjoyment and beauty into the world more than we are any other worker.

It's sad that we are more willing to fuck people who are trying to bring a little enjoyment and beauty into the world more than we are any other worker.
Save the strawmen for the crows.

It's sad that we are more willing to fuck people who are trying to bring a little enjoyment and beauty into the world more than we are any other worker.
Don't worry, this system we live in fucks us all.

You pay the artists by going to concerts, you pay record companies by buying CDs. Sticking it to the man rocks.

I take it you have no VCR tapes in your house with shows that wern't prerecorded, or audio tapes with music that wasn't already on them. Or CDs copied from your friend's CDs.

In my opinion, the best way to get some one to buy your CD is to put the majority your music out for free download. Better marketing because it is easier for people to find and listen to your music and thus want to buy your CD.
In fact, the recordable media I have has my own material on it, or that of my friends who have given it to me.

You are not Robin Hood.

"They should give it to me for free, then I'd pay for it" just sounds stupid. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're kidding.

Save the strawmen for the crows.
You're going to have to explain how that's a strawman.

One assumption being made here is that if we weren't getting the music for free, we'd be buying it.

It's simply not true. The music I MUST have, I would buy, but my collection would be quite small. Most of the music I've downloaded is stuff I'm interested in 'tasting', but I would never have gone out and bought. Especially considering you generally only like a couple of songs from a CD. Before I downloaded music, I bought maybe a CD or two a year. That hasn't changed.

One assumption being made here is that if we weren't getting the music for free, we'd be buying it.

It's simply not true. The music I MUST have, I would buy, but my collection would be quite small. Most of the music I've downloaded is stuff I'm interested in 'tasting', but I would never have gone out and bought. Especially considering you generally only like a couple of songs from a CD. Before I downloaded music, I bought maybe a CD or two a year. That hasn't changed.
This would be the-
"I don't like this fence as much as the other one, but I still wanted it-I'm just not going to pay you for it."

This would be the-
"I don't like this fence as much as the other one, but I still wanted it-I'm just not going to pay you for it."
No, this is the-

"I didn't buy a lot of music before downloading, and I still don't. Make downloading illegal, and my purchasing is not going to increase. So how are you losing my money again?"

"They should give it to me for free, then I'd pay for it" just sounds stupid. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're kidding.

Stupid, indeed. (http://www.nme.com/news/arctic-monkeys/22013)

No, this is the-

"I didn't buy a lot of music before downloading, and I still don't. Make downloading illegal, and my purchasing is not going to increase. So how are you losing my money again?"
You are benefiting from someones labor without paying for it. That you where never going to pay for it is only the excuse you give yourself for the reality of the situation.

"I was never going to pay for that fence anyway, so it's all good-right fence maker?"

You are benefiting from someones labor without paying for it. That you where never going to pay for it is only the excuse you give yourself for the reality of the situation.

"I was never going to pay for that fence anyway, so it's all good-right fence maker?"
Sorry, I'm just not buying into the concept that a song is equal to all other goods.

I haven't had any problems ripping CDs and playing them on my computer or my mp3 players. Even the 'protected' ones are fairly easy to rip.
I can do it yes ... but I feel my obligation stops when they stop following redbook CD standards.

They are not only charging me an arm and a leg to purchase their content they also restrict what I can do with MY content. and I sometimes have to violate their eula to get the content in the format I want

Just because I CAN get around their protection does not mean I should HAVE to to resonably use the content I am paying up the ass to get

Sorry, I'm just not buying into the concept that a song is equal to all other goods.
You should be entertained for free. Artists should be happy to put all that effort into thier work, the expense into recording it and promoting it, solely for your enjoyment and expect nothing because it should be for the love. I'll try that on the fence guy, see how it goes...

Yeah, stupid people expecting compensation for thier labors. We're entitled to be entertained for free-how dare these people try and make a living.
More a laugh factor at the asshats that think US law is universal

Specialy appling it to torrent engines

I can see busting the chops of the people that DO it and fall under your jurisdiction but trying to bust websites located over seas for just having a search feature for content they do NOT provide.

You should be entertained for free. Artists should be happy to put all that effort into thier work, the expense into recording it and promoting it, solely for your enjoyment and expect nothing because it should be for the love. I'll try that on the fence guy, see how it goes...

Yeah, and the artists who do entertain me for free are somehow of a lesser quality than those who demand payment. Oddly enough, I can't get into their concerts for free, or get any of their merchandise for free. I should also stop listening to the radio, because since I'm not actually paying to listen, I'm stealing.:rolleyes:

More a laugh factor at the asshats that think US law is universal Halleluiah to that particular laugh factor.

I should also stop listening to the radio, because since I'm not actually paying to listen, I'm stealing.:rolleyes:

And the argument goes to Sinuhue.

*hands her a medal, a trophy, and a bag of weed*

Yeah, and the artists who do entertain me for free are somehow of a lesser quality than those who demand payment. Oddly enough, I can't get into their concerts for free, or get any of their merchandise for free. I should also stop listening to the radio, because since I'm not actually paying to listen, I'm stealing.:rolleyes:
Sinuhue, you are smart enough to know the difference between voluntary and not. Let's not play dumb.

Sinuhue, you are smart enough to know the difference between voluntary and not. Let's not play dumb.

Pfff, only one of you is playing dumb...

...Though I can't quite figure out if said poster is actually "playing".

Pfff, only one of you is playing dumb...

...Though I can't quite figure out if said poster is actually "playing".
If you can't tell the difference between radio play and stealing music, then it's you.

Halleluiah to that particular laugh factor.
Yeah you figure some of these companies would spend some time researching before they send legal notices like this. (though some of them seem pretty preformated form letters)

Its like the bully that blusters but has no footing

In the right or wrong it is still funny to see someone act like an egotistical bully when they don't have a leg to stand on.

Sinuhue, you are smart enough to know the difference between voluntary and not. Let's not play dumb.
No, let's play dumb, because equating a song to a fence, to me, is pretty dumb.

Someone is paying for songs to be played on the radio, but it isn't me. Someone is putting time and energy into making those songs available, and I pay nothing. That is grossly unfair, and exploitative by your standards. I don't hear you screaming for pay-as-you-listen radio. Why is that?

If you can't tell the difference between radio play (which is actually compensated) and stealing music, then it's you.

You can just as easily record an entire program of radio music via tape as you can download an entire pack of MP3's.

But, since corporations advertise on radio stations, I guess that makes it different. :rolleyes:

No, let's play dumb, because equating a song to a fence, to me, is pretty dumb.

Someone is paying for songs to be played on the radio, but it isn't me. Someone is putting time and energy into making those songs available, and I pay nothing. That is grossly unfair, and exploitative by your standards. I don't hear you screaming for pay-as-you-listen radio. Why is that?
I'm equating it to labor, because you are benefiting from someones labor.

Again, voluntary and involuntary-you know the difference. Why do you get to decide what's done with someone elses labor, why go you get to decide when it's free?

And you do pay for it to be on the radio, just not directly.

People are willing to pay reasonable prices for these products. ITunes, Rhapsody, New Napster and a bunch of other sites prove this. However, if these prices aren't reasonable, A product isn't offered or the use of that product controlled and restricted, then someone will fill the niche with reasonable(or free), available, unrestricted versions.

It's as simple as that. These companies spend millions fighting a trend that they could make billions on if they embraced it. They don't call it the Information Age for nothing.

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Lol I just ran across this thought it would make some interesting discussion

Basically it is a Swedish Torrent tracker site publishing the legal emails they have gotten and their responses ... pretty funny stuff if you ask me

Personally I congratulate them for giving a big FU to these orgs even though I dont use this site
I just discovered them last week, and have used them to be able to catch up on the second half of the second season of BSG. I'll wind up buying the DVDs when they come out, so I don't feel badly in the slightest for downloading it now.

It's as simple as that. These companies spend millions fighting a trend that they could make billions on if they embraced it. They don't call it the Information Age for nothing.
That's what baffles me the most. If I were guaranteed songs of good, even quality, for a resonable price, I'd pay. Sorry, a buck a song is not reasonable by my standards. I think I'd dish out a quarter. Which would still add up...but would at least be something I'd consider.

People are willing to pay reasonable prices for these products. ITunes, Rhapsody, New Napster and a bunch of other sites prove this. However, if these prices aren't reasonable, A product isn't offered or the use of that product controlled and restricted, then someone will fill the niche with reasonable(or free), available, unrestricted versions.

It's as simple as that. These companies spend millions fighting a trend that they could make billions on if they embraced it. They don't call it the Information Age for nothing.
Agreed

I WANT to pay a reasonable price for the content. But the demands and the restrictions are becoming UN-reasonable as to how ... when or why I can consume the content I purchase. And they only plan on restricting it even farther (such as motions I have heard requiring all recording devices to NOT be able to record live TV without users paying per view)

But as is the prices and the restrictions are getting silly ... I still purchase all my music right now (CD format) but that is being pushed to the breaking point.

I'm equating it to labor, because you are benefiting from someones labor.

Again, voluntary and involuntary-you know the difference. Why do you get to decide what's done with someone elses labor, why go you get to decide when it's free? Because I'm the consumer, and I am GOD. That's what they keep telling me, anyway. But regardless of this false god complex, the pirating is not going to stop, nor shall I weep for the financial losses of huge record companies and multimillionaires decked out in bling. If someone really doesn't want me listening to their music unless I've paid for it, they can kiss my bum. Because however 'indirectly' I may pay for radio play (pretty frickin' indirect...I can't count a single cent that has funded a radio station), I've been listening to free music for years.

That's what baffles me the most. If I were guaranteed songs of good, even quality, for a resonable price, I'd pay. Sorry, a buck a song is not reasonable by my standards. I think I'd dish out a quarter. Which would still add up...but would at least be something I'd consider.
Specially when distribution costs are practically nill (Bandwidth is relativity cheep) on digital distribution. And CD media has drooped to a ridiculously low per CD cost

(I mean I could see 10 years ago when the media cost an arm and a leg ... but now it is just getting silly)

Specially when distribution costs are practically nill (Bandwidth is relativity cheep) on digital distribution. And CD media has drooped to a ridiculously low per CD cost I can't stand CDs anyway. Everything I have is in digital format. I don't need the packaging, the cover art etc.

(I mean I could see 10 years ago when the media cost an arm and a leg ... but now it is just getting silly)Well, and the biggest crybabies are the richest of the lot. Newer bands are using their heads and getting exposure using file sharing. I wonder when the dinosaurs will finally admit they've gone extinct?

That's what baffles me the most. If I were guaranteed songs of good, even quality, for a resonable price, I'd pay. Sorry, a buck a song is not reasonable by my standards. I think I'd dish out a quarter. Which would still add up...but would at least be something I'd consider.

I'm willing to pay a buck a song. For the songs I want. But all too often, the songs I want are either not available(Metallica) or you need to buy the whole album(American Pie). So I get them in other ways.

Then there's Napster which charges a monthly fee for unlimited access to their music. Which is great. If they have your music. Or if it isn't restricted like Metallica's albums are on Rhapsody(which also offers a monthly all-access fee). Metallica and a few other artists' albums are restricted where you have to pay for the entire album to access any of the songs on the album. Annoys the piss out of me.

So I find other ways.

Take pirated movies. For the most part, movie piracy is about getting movies that are either not available on DVD, or not available at a reasonable price. People are willing to buy movies. Itunes has sold millions of tv episodes and music videos for $1.99 each.

I can't stand CDs anyway. Everything I have is in digital format. I don't need the packaging, the cover art etc.

Well, and the biggest crybabies are the richest of the lot. Newer bands are using their heads and getting exposure using file sharing. I wonder when the dinosaurs will finally admit they've gone extinct?
I like the CD's because I end up with them in my truck... but the FIRST thing that happens is I back up all my media to my server (server being INTERNAL use only by ME)

2 reasons

1)I am forgetful and tend to loose things
2)I am lazy and I don't like going out to my truck to grab my cd's when I am working on my computer.

Because I'm the consumer, and I am GOD. That's what they keep telling me, anyway. But regardless of this false god complex, the pirating is not going to stop, nor shall I weep for the financial losses of huge record companies and multimillionaires decked out in bling. If someone really doesn't want me listening to their music unless I've paid for it, they can kiss my bum. Because however 'indirectly' I may pay for radio play (pretty frickin' indirect...I can't count a single cent that has funded a radio station), I've been listening to free music for years.
A Robin Hood complex and a dose of willful ignorance, that's how most people justify thier theft.

A Robin Hood complex and a dose of willful ignorance, that's how most people justify thier theft.
(For some reason my response and several following posts were deleted ... they must have had to restore the database)

Anyways personally I do not use the downloaded music ... but I do like the pressure it is putting on the industry to actually provide reasonable content for the absorbent prices they are charging

A Robin Hood complex and a dose of willful ignorance, that's how most people justify thier theft.
Whatever. Save your energy for a fight worth your time. Instead of reactionary stupidity, try adapting. The technology is not suddenly going to become extinct...deal with it.

I wonder if you have such high-horse arguments about public libraries, where the dissemination of information, music, and movies is intended to be free, uncensored, and available to all? What crimes are we committing by accessing the 'labour' of others, authors, musicians, actors, producers...for free? How horrible! What a Robin Hood complex! What willful ignorance:rolleyes:

Sorry, where's this strange world where people get paid fair money for their labour?

Sorry, where's this strange world where people get paid fair money for their labour?

Star Trek. :)

Whatever. Save your energy for a fight worth your time. Instead of reactionary stupidity, try adapting. The technology is not suddenly going to become extinct...deal with it.

I wonder if you have such high-horse arguments about public libraries, where the dissemination of information, music, and movies is intended to be free, uncensored, and available to all? What crimes are we committing by accessing the 'labour' of others, authors, musicians, actors, producers...for free? How horrible! What a Robin Hood complex! What willful ignorance:rolleyes:
Here's the difference--libraries are subject to the fair use exception to copyright law, and musicians, actors, producers, writers, etc are paid for their work when it's broadcast--you pay for it by sitting through advertising, or by subscribing to cable channels, but it's not free.

But downloading via the internet is taking without compensating the people who produce the work. Justify it all you want as fighting against the man, but that's still what it is. Yes, the cd is a dead format, or it will be soon enough, and distribution will move more and more into the realm of the internet, and yes, the record and film companies have handled this horribly, but don't act as though you're not taking the work of others without compensating them. At least be honest about it.

But downloading via the internet is taking without compensating the people who produce the work. Justify it all you want as fighting against the man, but that's still what it is. Yes, the cd is a dead format, or it will be soon enough, and distribution will move more and more into the realm of the internet, and yes, the record and film companies have handled this horribly, but don't act as though you're not taking the work of others without compensating them. At least be honest about it.
I think I've made it clear that I don't care. Nor have I said I'm 'fighting against the man'. You have me confused with someone else...perhaps with the Robin Hood that Cannot-think-of-a-name keeps bringing up? It didn't bother me when I made copies from the radio. It didn't bother me when I taped a few songs off a friend's record, and it certainly doesn't bother me when I download music now. I am not making any sort of profit off their labour. I am not reselling their music. I'm listening to it, and to me, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if I get that music from the local library, or get it myself. Justify one being 'theft' and one being 'fair use' all you want, but it's in the same bag to me. How you can make such a fine, and ridiculous distinction between something that has the same outcome...me listening to music...is frankly ridiculous beyond belief.

Iv nothing against buying music, but I can only play mp3s on my phone and CDs arent that. also downloading music you get to hear stuff you would never hear otherwise. yesterday I discovered that I like Neil Diamond. I would have never thought to buy one of his CDs. Will he mind gaining a fan instead of a sale? probably not since I would have never bought it anyway.

I still buy CDs if theyre good enough, which is rare, but with the increase in this DRM crap, soon I wont be able to even if I could aford it. By trying to prevent piracy they force people to do it.

Iv nothing against buying music, but I can only play mp3s on my phone and CDs arent that. also downloading music you get to hear stuff you would never hear otherwise. yesterday I discovered that I like Neil Diamond. I would have never thought to buy one of his CDs. Will he mind gaining a fan instead of a sale? probably not since I would have never bought it anyway.

I still buy CDs if theyre good enough, which is rare, but with the increase in this DRM crap, soon I wont be able to even if I could aford it. By trying to prevent piracy they force people to do it.
Yeah thats starting to become a headache some of this DRM stuff is causing massive Linux problems (I run a non windows systems)

With more plans in the future of further problems with non windows machines and being able to listen.

Edit:

Though there is some DRM support some of the new "anti theft" setups promice to cause further headache

A Robin Hood complex and a dose of willful ignorance, that's how most people justify thier theft.

Looks like I'll have to do it again.

Abuse
Alien Vs Predator
Alpha Centauri
Arkanoid II
Beneath a Steel Sky
Black & White
Carmageddon
Carmageddon TDR 2000
Civilization III
Colonisation
Dawn of War
Deus Ex
Descent II
Desert Strike
Diablo
Diablo II + expansion
Doom 1 and 2
Duke Nukem 3D
Duke Nukem Manhattan Project
Dune 1 and 2
Dungeon Keeper
Elite
Evil Genius
Fallout
Flashback
Freespace + expansion
Gothic II
Homeworld
IL 2 Sturmovik
Inherit the Earth
James Pond
K240
Master of Orion II
Morrowind (and Oblivion soon)
Neverwinter Nights + expansions
Powermonger + expansion
Quake II
Rock 'n Roll
Rollercoaster Tycoon 1 and 2 + all expansions
Serious Sam 1 and 2
Shadow of the Beast
The Secret of Monkey Island
The Settlers 1 and 2
Titus the Fox
Sim City 3000
Sim City 4000 + Rush Hour
Starships Unlimited
Stronghold
The Chaos Engine
Thief 1, 2 and 3
Total Annihilation
Tron 2.0
Ultima 1 to 8
Undying
Wing Commander
Worms
Zool

These are all the games I currently have a legal copy of, which I wouldn't have had without 'software piracy'.

Without 'software piracy', my collection of games, and thereby my contibution to the paycheck of their makers, would consist of crappy budget games I bought for a few Euros and played for fewer hours.

So please tell me how my 'software piracy' is damaging the game industry.

Likewise I have bought seven CDs based on music pirate sampled from online.

Likewise I have bought seven CDs based on music pirate sampled from online.
I am sure I am at that as well ... even though I do not do it anymore I used to listen to a lot of it and have gone back and bought a few full albums (actually thats the whole reason I purchase music now ... I find I tend to find a lot of non – single songs that I really enjoy that I would not know of if I did not have the entire album)

I belong to the download music I want to sample and then buy the album if I like it crowd.

I had this idea about what bands should do but I don't know how they would go about doing it - I think that bands should sell all their songs online for a small amount of money (perhaps 50 cents to a dollar) and when they make a target amount of income for a song (say 50 grand maybe? depends on the artist I'd guess) they release it as freely tradable after that.

I belong to the download music I want to sample and then buy the album if I like it crowd.

I had this idea about what bands should do but I don't know how they would go about doing it - I think that bands should sell all their songs online for a small amount of money (perhaps 50 cents to a dollar) and when they make a target amount of income for a song (say 50 grand maybe? depends on the artist I'd guess) they release it as freely tradable after that.
I think we're heading toward that sort of distribution system anyway. The CD as a format is in its last throes, much as vinyl was after the CD was introduced--it's still around, but more as a fetish and for DJs than anything else, and the CD may not even have that fate eventually. Mark Cuban, the guy who owns the Dallas Mavericks and who founded Launch, wrote a piece about a year ago wondering why music stores like FYE don't already have a digital system set up, where a customer can walk into a store, hook up an iPod or some other mp3 player, and buy individual songs on the spot. They'd sell like crazy, I'd be willing to bet, and you'd free up a shitload of floorspace for ancillary--and higher profit--merchandise, or you could reduce your mall rent, since you wouldn't need as much square footage.

I think we're heading toward that sort of distribution system anyway. The CD as a format is in its last throes, much as vinyl was after the CD was introduced--it's still around, but more as a fetish and for DJs than anything else, and the CD may not even have that fate eventually. Mark Cuban, the guy who owns the Dallas Mavericks and who founded Launch, wrote a piece about a year ago wondering why music stores like FYE don't already have a digital system set up, where a customer can walk into a store, hook up an iPod or some other mp3 player, and buy individual songs on the spot. They'd sell like crazy, I'd be willing to bet, and you'd free up a shitload of floorspace for ancillary--and higher profit--merchandise, or you could reduce your mall rent, since you wouldn't need as much square footage.
I would LOVE that...there have been many times I've heard a song I really wanted to hear again and waiting for radio play is bloody painful. If I could walk into a store, fork over a reasonable amount of money and get it right away, I'd be in heaven!

Because MP3 players cost more than CDs and require extra pieces of equipment to be used with your average music player: car hook ups, stereo hook ups, etc. The CD will not be replaced by the MP3 player since CDs themselves are cheap enough to be used as drink coasters and more and more baseline items are able to play MP3 CDs. There is no special equipment required to play a CD as there is to use a digital audio player with base devices, and there never will be until third-party companies start realizing that the iPod isn't the only MP3 player.

You would not be able to free up floor space, in fact, you would lessen floor space as you could not remove CDs from the store lest you lose revenue from people no longer visiting your store and from adding machines to download the music in combination with the displays showing them off. Why go to a store to try and download music straight to a possibly incompatible player when you can stay at home and download music from an online store? Your marketing skills need a little work.

Because MP3 players cost more than CDs and require extra pieces of equipment to be used with your average music player: car hook ups, stero hook ups, etc. The CD will not be replaced by the MP3 player since CDs themselves are cheap enough to be used as drink coasters and more and more baseline items are able to play MP3 CDs. There is no special equipment required to play a CD as there is to use a digital audio player with base devices, and there never will be until third-party companies start realizing that the iPod isn't the only MP3 player.
Here's the thing--mp3 players are getting cheaper. You can get a basic 512mb player for under fifty bucks now, and that'll hold about 4 hours of music at a basic rip level, and it's a hell of a lot easier to carry around a tiny mp3 player than it is a CD player and 4-6 CDs. Also, once you factor in that an mp3 player uses fewer batteries or is rechargeable, you see an additional cost savings, and you have much greater flexibility with the music you put on an mp3 player.

The car usage issue is different, but many car stereos are coming with mp3 jacks, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't standard within the next three to four years. The only major difference is that the CD sound quality is much better, but if the systems I hear on a daily basis are any indication, that's not as big as issue as it might be, at least not for most people. (Hint: if your system is making your hoopty rattle, your stereo doesn't sound good.) The cd will probably remain the choice of audiophiles, at least for now, but they're a very minor segment of the market.

Here's the thing--mp3 players are getting cheaper. You can get a basic 512mb player for under fifty bucks now, and that'll hold about 4 hours of music at a basic rip level, and it's a hell of a lot easier to carry around a tiny mp3 player than it is a CD player and 4-6 CDs. Also, once you factor in that an mp3 player uses fewer batteries or is rechargeable, you see an additional cost savings, and you have much greater flexibility with the music you put on an mp3 player.

The car usage issue is different, but many car stereos are coming with mp3 jacks, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't standard within the next three to four years. The only major difference is that the CD sound quality is much better, but if the systems I hear on a daily basis are any indication, that's not as big as issue as it might be, at least not for most people. (Hint: if your system is making your hoopty rattle, your stereo doesn't sound good.) The cd will probably remain the choice of audiophiles, at least for now, but they're a very minor segment of the market.

Ehhh you can copy in a lostless format ... it just requires Players that handle the standard and lots of space.

Personally I like CD formats ... even if they get transferred digitally

I guess I am too much a computer geek ... always worried about data loss.

The only major difference is that the CD sound quality is much better, but if the systems I hear on a daily basis are any indication, that's not as big as issue as it might be, at least not for most people. (Hint: if your system is making your hoopty rattle, your stereo doesn't sound good.) The cd will probably remain the choice of audiophiles, at least for now, but they're a very minor segment of the market.Depends on the bitrate. 128kbps -- clearly unacceptable. 192kbps -- mostly "acceptable", but fully noticeable. 320kbps -- while it can still sound slightly different, it doesn't sound worse.

Not that it really matters too much in the end with most popular music, since the quality already sucks; mainstream music is deliberately squashed to death in order to make it as loud as possible. This is done by squashing the dynamics, equalizing it for maximum perceived loudness, and then further increasing the level through waveshaping as far as can be done without it becoming an obvious annoyance. (or sometimes even further. sometimes, the peaks are simply shaved off, with fully audible distortion as a result)

So even before the mp3-compression, (the icing on the cake) the music likely has very little dynamics, is poorly equalised (in terms of making it sound well), oversaturated, and often lightly to severely clipped.

(and on radio, the music goes through the same thing another time, but with lower-quality equipment and no regard to each individual song's characteristics)
[/rant]

Depends on the bitrate. 128kbps -- clearly unacceptable. 192kbps -- mostly "acceptable", but fully noticeable. 320kbps -- while it can still sound slightly different, it doesn't sound worse.

Not that it really matters too much in the end with most popular music, since the quality already sucks; mainstream music is deliberately squashed to death in order to make it as loud as possible. This is done by squashing the dynamics, equalizing it for maximum perceived loudness, and then further increasing the level through waveshaping as far as can be done without it becoming an obvious annoyance. (or sometimes even further. sometimes, the peaks are simply shaved off, with fully audible distortion as a result)

So even before the mp3-compression, (the icing on the cake) the music likely has very little dynamics, is poorly equalised (in terms of making it sound well), oversaturated, and often lightly to severely clipped.

(and on radio, the music goes through the same thing another time, but with lower-quality equipment and no regard to each individual song's characteristics)
[/rant]
While I agree people worying about quality can go too far the other way


http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

They are CABLES "MSRP: $30,750.00"

While I agree people worying about quality can go too far the other way


http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

They are CABLES "MSRP: $30,750.00"
Oooh! Ooh! I'll need those now, when I build my recording studio.

Oooh! Ooh! I'll need those now, when I build my recording studio.
Get one of these to match!

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C

"$485.00" for a WOODEN KNOB

No, I'll get fifty!

jeeze, $485 for a friggin knob, and it wouldn't even help I'm sure.

No, I'll get fifty!

jeeze, $485 for a friggin knob, and it wouldn't even help I'm sure.
Thats ok it goes good with yout $2100 POWER CABLE

http://virtualdynamics.ca/products/MAS/POW

Thats ok it goes good with yout $2100 POWER CABLE

http://virtualdynamics.ca/products/MAS/POW
wooooooooow, PURE signal? *amazed*

http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

They are CABLES "MSRP: $30,750.00"Good cables can make a significant improvement, but that is quite... excessive. Anything more than than 1/100th of it is a useless waste unless your other equipment is near-perfect, IMO. But then, there are many so-called (read: those who can't hear any difference but want "the best", and thus buy the most expensive and hyped stuff they can find) audiophiles who are willing to buy such stuff.

Thats ok it goes good with yout $2100 POWER CABLE

http://virtualdynamics.ca/products/MAS/POW

Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I use it to power my kettle :confused:

I download music, but here in Canada it's not illegal, it's just illegal to share it, and i don't. Unless the Supreme Court has recently changed their ruling. I do buy CD's though, it's just that i buy the ones by my favorite bands. The songs i download are ones by bands i don't like enough to buy the whole albums of. I don't buy any less CD's then i did before.

Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I use it to power my kettle :confused:
You'll get pure sound with no annoying fuzzy white noise ;)

You'll get pure sound with no annoying fuzzy white noise ;)

Cool.

Good cables can make a significant improvement, but that is quite... excessive. Anything more than than 1/100th of it is a useless waste unless your other equipment is near-perfect, IMO. But then, there are many so-called (read: those who can't hear any difference but want "the best", and thus buy the most expensive and hyped stuff they can find) audiophiles who are willing to buy such stuff.
Like me, if I had a million dollars and some :( . But I wouldn't buy those damn wooden knobs, that's just stupid.

I don't buy any less CD's then i did before.
Bingo. The argument from all these corporate assholes is that it will be taking sales away from them. Bullshit. I would have seven less CDs if I hadn't downloaded any music. With the single songs I download, I wouldn't have bought the CD anyway.

Bingo. The argument from all these corporate assholes is that it will be taking sales away from them. Bullshit. I would have seven less CDs if I hadn't downloaded any music. With the single songs I download, I wouldn't have bought the CD anyway.
I have little doubt that there are a number of people who download and don't buy, but the fact is that they're not the problem. The problem is that music is even blander than normal right now. The indies aren't having as many problems selling albums, that's for damn sure.