NationStates Jolt Archive


Braille on Drive-Up ATMs

Myrmidonisia
13-03-2006, 15:07
Second try. Mods, keep this thread and delete the invalid one, please.

Ever wonder why drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? It's for the Chicago market, where blind students are required to take the classroom driver ed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0603100180mar10,1,7954861.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Mayra Ramirez scored an A in driver's education this year, but sitting through the 10-week class felt like a bad joke to the Curie Metropolitan High School sophomore.

Ramirez is blind. She knows she's never going to drive. She can think of a lot of things she'd rather be studying than rules of the road, but she didn't have a choice.

Chicago Public Schools requires all sophomores to take the class and pass a written road-rules exam--a graduation requirement that affects about 30 blind and visually impaired students in specialized programs at Curie and Payton College Preparatory High.

What's next? Registering dead people to vote?
CanuckHeaven
13-03-2006, 15:16
Second try. Mods, keep this thread and delete the invalid one, please.

Ever wonder why drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? It's for the Chicago market, where blind students are required to take the classroom driver ed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0603100180mar10,1,7954861.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
How bizarre, how bizarre!!

What's next? Registering dead people to vote?
Isn't this how Bush won the last two elections? :p
Laerod
13-03-2006, 15:16
What's next? Registering dead people to vote?Like people never thought of that before thinking of letting blind people learn traffic rules :p
Skinny87
13-03-2006, 15:19
And the US sets the bar again for dumb laws...
Myrmidonisia
13-03-2006, 15:22
How bizarre, how bizarre!!


Isn't this how Bush won the last two elections? :p
And Mayor Richard J. Daley before him.
And John F. Kennedy.

Chicago has a rich history of "ward politics". We usually prosecute that kind of stuff as fraud in Atlanta, but as Tip O'Neill observed, "All politics is local."
Laerod
13-03-2006, 15:24
And Mayor Richard J. Daley before him.
And John F. Kennedy.

Chicago has a rich history of "ward politics". We usually prosecute that kind of stuff as fraud in Atlanta, but as Tip O'Neill observed, "All politics is local."
Yeah, my dad keeps telling me that my Grandpa used to vote Republican when he was still alive. Now he votes Democrat...
Myrmidonisia
13-03-2006, 15:30
And the US sets the bar again for dumb laws...
Which? The class or the drive-up ATM placards in Braille?

You don't want to insult any disabled person by insinuating that they can't use a particular facility, do you?
Whereyouthinkyougoing
13-03-2006, 15:40
Okay, I know this is beside the point, but someone is going to point it out sooner or later, so it may as well be me making a fool of myself: the reason for the Braille on drive-up ATMs (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_010.html)
Myrmidonisia
13-03-2006, 15:53
Okay, I know this is beside the point, but someone is going to point it out sooner or later, so it may as well be me making a fool of myself: the reason for the Braille on drive-up ATMs (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_010.html)
I always figured it was just an economy of scale thing. The walk-up ATMs need Braille instructions, so it was just kept things from being confused to put it on all. I didn't think about cabs, but that sure is a good reason.

So the answer to my last question is "The class, stupid, there's a good reason for having Braille on the ATMs."
Smunkeeville
13-03-2006, 16:18
Okay, I know this is beside the point, but someone is going to point it out sooner or later, so it may as well be me making a fool of myself: the reason for the Braille on drive-up ATMs (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_010.html)
really? I know a guy who is the guy at a bank who orders new stuff (like ATM key pads) and he told me that there is braille on them because the company puts braille on all the key pads, because the company doesn't know if the keypad is going to a drive up machine or an indoors machine so they just make all of them with braille. It sounded good, so I believed him. He even explained to me how there isn't really a difference in the machine it's self with an indoors or outdoors, but the case is different, and how you can buy a key pad if you know your model number since the keypad wears out before the rest of the machine does (kinda like you can buy new tires for your car if you know your tire size.)
Skinny87
13-03-2006, 16:33
Which? The class or the drive-up ATM placards in Braille?

You don't want to insult any disabled person by insinuating that they can't use a particular facility, do you?

The class. Why would I want to insult the disabled for using the ATM machines?
Keruvalia
13-03-2006, 16:54
There is actually a simple and reasonable explanation for this.

When they make the keypads for ATM machines, they don't know if it's going on a walk up or drive up ATM. So they all have braille. It's not PC run amuck or anything like that.
JobbiNooner
13-03-2006, 16:55
Braille could be for the blind guy sitting in the seat behind the driver ya know. ;)

I'm still annoyed by the fact that I live in an ENGLISH speaking country, yet there is a selection for Spanish, pardon me-Espanol, on the damn screen before I can proceed.
Keruvalia
13-03-2006, 16:58
I'm still annoyed by the fact that I live in an ENGLISH speaking country

If you mean the US, you're wrong. The US is not an English speaking country. We have no official language. If we did, it would be dual (like Canada) English/Spanish. If you'll notice, at the time of the founding of the United States, only the Eastern Seaboard was English speaking. Almost the entire rest of the country was Spanish speaking.

Spanish was here from the beginning and is here to stay. Get used to it.
Myrmidonisia
13-03-2006, 17:14
There is actually a simple and reasonable explanation for this.

When they make the keypads for ATM machines, they don't know if it's going on a walk up or drive up ATM. So they all have braille. It's not PC run amuck or anything like that.
Okay, that's half credit. For another 50 points and the thread championship, answer the following question, "Why does the Chicago city school system require blind students to take driver ed?". The answer, "Because they're idiots", isn't valid. That's the trivial case and you could use that answer to describe any level of government.

I think the crowning touch on the implementation of the class is that they translate material into Braille for the students. Otherwise, how could they even hope to pass the class. Talk about wasteful bureacracy...
Megaloria
13-03-2006, 17:26
Excuse me while I start texturing the ATMs around here.
Keruvalia
13-03-2006, 17:48
Okay, that's half credit. For another 50 points and the thread championship, answer the following question, "Why does the Chicago city school system require blind students to take driver ed?". The answer, "Because they're idiots", isn't valid. That's the trivial case and you could use that answer to describe any level of government.

Uniformity of education. It's a standardisation process and is required by the Federal Government in order that the schools get funding.

However, like with any groups, the parents have the legal right to change their child's curriculum. The same holds true for Chicago as is anywhere.
JobbiNooner
13-03-2006, 17:59
Not an English speaking country? So I guess the Declaration of Independance, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were all written by an oddly-tongued people of some imaginary made up language? It shouldn't take an act of Congress to imply "official language". This country was founded and built by people that spoke English. When the Italians, Germans, French, etc came over here during the Industrial Revolution, they learned English.

So let's see. If I go to Russia, I should expect to need Russian. In Germany I should expect to have to do everything in German. I see no reason why it shouldn't be any different here. However, if we're going to cater to one, why not all languages?
Santa Barbara
13-03-2006, 18:02
As far as I can tell, a lot of the people driving cars ARE blind, so it makes sense to me.
Keruvalia
13-03-2006, 18:12
Not an English speaking country? So I guess the Declaration of Independance, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were all written by an oddly-tongued people of some imaginary made up language?

Actually, when those were written, the majority of what would become this country spoke Spanish. I'm not sure why the Founders chose English as they all spoke several languages (a mark of the educated man). Perhaps it was arbitrary. Maybe someone flipped a coin.

It shouldn't take an act of Congress to imply "official language".

It shouldn't take an act of Congress to give women the vote either, but that's how this country works.

This country was founded and built by people that spoke English.

They also spoke German, French, Spanish, and Latin. Also, this country was built on the sweat and blood of Chinese immigrants and slave labor. Founded, maybe, but certainly not built. The chances Thomas Jefferson actually harvested his own tobacco with his own hands are slim to none.

So ... *shrug*.
Muravyets
13-03-2006, 18:43
Not an English speaking country? So I guess the Declaration of Independance, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were all written by an oddly-tongued people of some imaginary made up language? It shouldn't take an act of Congress to imply "official language". This country was founded and built by people that spoke English. When the Italians, Germans, French, etc came over here during the Industrial Revolution, they learned English.

So let's see. If I go to Russia, I should expect to need Russian. In Germany I should expect to have to do everything in German. I see no reason why it shouldn't be any different here. However, if we're going to cater to one, why not all languages?
I'm not very widely traveled, but in both Italy and the Czech Republic ATMs have multiple language choices -- 3 or 4 in Italy and up to 6 depending on location in the CR. Both of those countries have official languages, but they don't pretend that no foreigners visit them.
Muravyets
13-03-2006, 18:49
Look, it's obvious that in the city of Chicago, blind kids need to learn how to drive. It's part of their culture. Who are we to judge?

It makes no sense to me, but I'm from New York City, where the schools don't teach you how to drive but do require 4 years of dodgeball before you can graduate, and I now live in Boston, where, apparently, nobody learns how to drive either. :rolleyes:
Bakamongue
13-03-2006, 19:35
There is actually a simple and reasonable explanation for this.

When they make the keypads for ATM machines, they don't know if it's going on a walk up or drive up ATM. So they all have braille. It's not PC run amuck or anything like that.I don't wish to get into the above argument (what you, and the other(s) who have said this is true), but just report the existence of signs with braille on them that are far more inexplicable.

Picture signs differentiating ladies'/gentlemen's facilitities, hanging from the ceiling and (as if their location weren't already a problem for the blind) marked not in relief, but merely by visible coloration in the pattern of the relevant braille characters.

Now maybe the partially-sighted might resolve that better than standard characters, but taking my glasses off (I'm extrenely short-sighted) and further blurring my vision I couldn't tell any obvious visual differences between the dot-patterns (albeit without any hope of properly interpreting such patterns were I to resolve them under such conditions).

Anyway, just a datum point, as something that might well be considered 'PC gone mad' even though the above examples are not.
Ashmoria
13-03-2006, 19:37
Not an English speaking country? So I guess the Declaration of Independance, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were all written by an oddly-tongued people of some imaginary made up language? It shouldn't take an act of Congress to imply "official language". This country was founded and built by people that spoke English. When the Italians, Germans, French, etc came over here during the Industrial Revolution, they learned English.

So let's see. If I go to Russia, I should expect to need Russian. In Germany I should expect to have to do everything in German. I see no reason why it shouldn't be any different here. However, if we're going to cater to one, why not all languages?
yes jobbi, the US started from the english colonies of the new world. not all of them, mind you. but even then, there were people living in the territory covered by those 13 colonies who did not speak english.

as that country began to expand it took over places where people spoke other languages. they didnt come to the united states, the united states came to them.

people whose ancestors lived here long before yours arrived. we can guess that most of your ancestors are fairly recent arrivals (and who knows, we may be right) and point out that people spoke french, spanish, and dutch before the US was even formed. but we can be very sure that if we mention those who speak navajo, apache, souix, or hopi we are talking about languages that were used here long before any english speaker knew that the new world existed.

i think its OK to accomodate those who want to keep their culture intact. i think its OK to accomodate those whose english is not yet fluent. we are a nice open country, why be mean? does it hurt you SO much to see spanish words here and there?
People without names
13-03-2006, 20:03
Yeah, my dad keeps telling me that my Grandpa used to vote Republican when he was still alive. Now he votes Democrat...

almost as good as this qoute

My grandmother's brain was dead, but her heart was still beating. It was the first time we ever had a democrat in the family
JobbiNooner
14-03-2006, 14:02
I'm not very widely traveled, but in both Italy and the Czech Republic ATMs have multiple language choices -- 3 or 4 in Italy and up to 6 depending on location in the CR. Both of those countries have official languages, but they don't pretend that no foreigners visit them.

Yeah, where the tourists flock to. Language flexibility for them means more money.

I'm not against a little diversity and culture. I can speak a little German, Spanish, and Russian. However, if I travel to a country were I know the predominant language is "Jobbinoonian", that's what I'm going to expect to be seeing and hearing. It's good manners to atleast try to assimilate, and just plain rude to expect people to accomodate you.
Non Aligned States
14-03-2006, 14:13
Actually, when those were written, the majority of what would become this country spoke Spanish. I'm not sure why the Founders chose English as they all spoke several languages (a mark of the educated man). Perhaps it was arbitrary. Maybe someone flipped a coin.

Ooh ooh. I know *raises hand*

Because it was originally written to thumb the nose at the English. Best to write it in that language and avoid the problems of translation issues I guess.
Ravenshrike
14-03-2006, 14:36
Second try. Mods, keep this thread and delete the invalid one, please.

Ever wonder why drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? It's for the Chicago market, where blind students are required to take the classroom driver ed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0603100180mar10,1,7954861.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

What's next? Registering dead people to vote?
We do that already. Next will be registering the unborn to vote.
Ravenshrike
14-03-2006, 14:39
Actually, when those were written, the majority of what would become this country spoke Spanish. I'm not sure why the Founders chose English as they all spoke several languages (a mark of the educated man). Perhaps it was arbitrary. Maybe someone flipped a coin.
Or maybe it was the fact that english is still the most versatile language on the planet.
Mikesburg
14-03-2006, 14:42
Here's my personal favourite; Brail 'No-Smoking' signs.

Seriously. "Excuse me sir, you can't smoke in here. Didn't you read the sign?"
Czardas
14-03-2006, 14:47
Yeah, where the tourists flock to. Language flexibility for them means more money.

I'm not against a little diversity and culture. I can speak a little German, Spanish, and Russian. However, if I travel to a country were I know the predominant language is "Jobbinoonian", that's what I'm going to expect to be seeing and hearing. It's good manners to atleast try to assimilate, and just plain rude to expect people to accomodate you.
LOL...

"We are Borg. Your star systems and minds will be assimilated into ours. Resistance is futile." (or however the quote went)

And come on.... in a country with over 40 million Spanish speakers, you'd think we'd at least make an effort for them, right? Because it's their fault they weren't born into an English-speaking family? Seriously. ¬_¬
Keruvalia
14-03-2006, 15:37
Or maybe it was the fact that english is still the most versatile language on the planet.

Nah ... I like the thumbing the nose at the British explanation. English is very versatile, but international treaties are still written in French.
UpwardThrust
14-03-2006, 15:45
I always figured it was just an economy of scale thing. The walk-up ATMs need Braille instructions, so it was just kept things from being confused to put it on all. I didn't think about cabs, but that sure is a good reason.

So the answer to my last question is "The class, stupid, there's a good reason for having Braille on the ATMs."
Same ... I figured it was just easier to just manufacture the same part (the keys) for all ATM's then it was to have separate manufacturing and distribution and assembly procedures
Laerod
14-03-2006, 15:49
Nah ... I like the thumbing the nose at the British explanation. English is very versatile, but international treaties are still written in French.Depends on between whom. They usually have one or more language copies, all equally binding (as opposed to translations).
UN documents are required to be in English, French, Russian, Arabic, Chinese, and Spanish, if I am not mistaken.
Muravyets
14-03-2006, 18:35
Yeah, where the tourists flock to. Language flexibility for them means more money.

I'm not against a little diversity and culture. I can speak a little German, Spanish, and Russian. However, if I travel to a country were I know the predominant language is "Jobbinoonian", that's what I'm going to expect to be seeing and hearing. It's good manners to atleast try to assimilate, and just plain rude to expect people to accomodate you.
Okay, yeah, fine, whatever. Lingua Franca and all that -- if you'll pardon the expression. But does that mean that our schools shouldn't teach foreign languages? That is one of the talking points of the (blessedly small) official language faction in the US -- Americans talk American. But if everyone thinks that way, then we should either give up travel and international business altogether or else learn as many languages as possible so we can move about freely in other countries that also have official languages of their own. And if we all can be at least tourist-competent in 5 or 6 languages, then it's not much of problem if shop signs are also printed in Spanish, is it?
Muravyets
14-03-2006, 18:50
I can't help it. "English as an official language" cracks me up. English is such a Frankenstein monster of a language. You can take any word from any language and toss it into enough sentences, and it will become English at some point. It's like in "Demolition Man" when Sandra Bullock explained why every restaurant is Taco Bell -- any language can be English and will be at one point or another. I don't think there's been a single moment in the history of the English language when it wasn't a crazy patois of cobbled-together phrases from other languages. Nowadays, new dialects of English are being invented in places like India, Japan, South America -- and the US -- and those weird new idioms and grammars are beginning to spread among English speakers around the world, mostly through international business. They are also starting to appear in dictionaries. In 50 years, the OED is going to be a very interesting read. Is this a degeneration of English? I say no. I say it's part of the very nature of the language, part of the fundamental way it works.

But it does make it difficult to enshrine it as an "official language."

I know this is off topic, but Joobi got to me. I'll drop it now.
JobbiNooner
14-03-2006, 21:28
Okay, yeah, fine, whatever. Lingua Franca and all that -- if you'll pardon the expression. But does that mean that our schools shouldn't teach foreign languages? That is one of the talking points of the (blessedly small) official language faction in the US -- Americans talk American. But if everyone thinks that way, then we should either give up travel and international business altogether or else learn as many languages as possible so we can move about freely in other countries that also have official languages of their own. And if we all can be at least tourist-competent in 5 or 6 languages, then it's not much of problem if shop signs are also printed in Spanish, is it?

Perhaps you should read my post again, you obviously didn't read it the first time.
Fleckenstein
14-03-2006, 22:15
If you mean the US, you're wrong. The US is not an English speaking country. We have no official language. If we did, it would be dual (like Canada) English/Spanish. If you'll notice, at the time of the founding of the United States, only the Eastern Seaboard was English speaking. Almost the entire rest of the country was Spanish speaking.

Spanish was here from the beginning and is here to stay. Get used to it.

that would be wrong. the continental congress voted on language and they picked english. ove vote from german though.

if we go to mexico and speak english, do you think they will speak english back?
Dokugakuji
14-03-2006, 22:23
Personally I live in a large city, and the nearest ATM for me is a drive-through one and I just walk up to it and use it. If I were blind, I'd be happy there was brail on it so I wouldn't have to wander around trying to find another one.
Bakamongue
15-03-2006, 02:22
that would be wrong. the continental congress voted on language and they picked english. ove vote from german though.A common misconception (http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm)
Sarkhaan
15-03-2006, 03:18
that would be wrong. the continental congress voted on language and they picked english. ove vote from german though.

if we go to mexico and speak english, do you think they will speak english back?
a) urban legend, someone already posted the link.
b) yes. yes they do. Very well, untill you're asking for your change. then they look confused and say "que?". Its a fun little game.