NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello My Chums,

I would be grateful if any of you would be so kind as to give me a non-ranting opinion on this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/12/ixportaltop.html).

It appears in a conservative British newspaper.

I rather expect that this person has acted honestly and that his opinion was formed on sound grounds. I wish more people had his courage.

I am pleasantly surprised that instead of a dishonourable discharge he has apparently been treated very fairly by 'the powers that be'. It is more usual for authorities (and people in general) to praise such behaviour as this person's when it doesnt negatively impact on them but to condemn it when it does adversely effect them. Good on the authorities responsible who didnt penalise this person but instead apparantly reacted with the integrity themselves.

"He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops"

What occurs to me - people fighting on the front line are prepared to kill or be killed, I'm sure some of them enjoy it. And we expect those types wont perform illegal acts during times of war..

Considering the fact that he's not an inexperienced, young soldier, but has obviously seen a number of missions in different countries already (Northern Ireland and Afghanistan are quoted in the article), I do find it slightly disturbing that the behaviour of US troops in Iraq could be so much worse than anything he'd seen before, so much so that he decides to give up his career and risks dishonourale discharge and imprisonment.

And I'm sure soon enough a number of people will come down on this thread calling him a liar, a coward, disloyal, a traitor and much worse...

Well, there we have it. Next time I question the mentality and conduct of some US Forces in Iraq, nobody can accuse me of being an armchair soldier who just doesn't know what it's like.

Good on him.

Hello My Chums,

I would be grateful if any of you would be so kind as to give me a non-ranting opinion on this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/12/ixportaltop.html).

It appears in a conservative British newspaper.
I admit to being torn by this one. I have great respect for the SAS, but Trooper Griffin seems to have overreacted. He was there, so I defer to his experience, but I suspect the differences in approach he mention are due more to the emphasis in training US line unit members combat skills to the virtual exclusion of civil affairs skills. This, by the way, is being changed.

I admit to being torn by this one. I have great respect for the SAS, but Trooper Griffin seems to have overreacted. He was there, so I defer to his experience, but I suspect the differences in approach he mention are due more to the emphasis in training US line unit members combat skills to the virtual exclusion of civil affairs skills. This, by the way, is being changed.

But wouldn't he already know about that from Afghanistan?

Next time I question the mentality and conduct of some US Forces in Iraq, nobody can accuse me of being an armchair soldier who just doesn't know what it's like.
Oh? Did you suddenly acquire combat experience somehow? Reading an article doesn't qualify you for anything except, perhaps, quoting the article.

But wouldn't he already know about that from Afghanistan?
I don't know. I can only go on what the article says.

I don't know. I can only go on what the article says.

So do I :

... taking part in operations in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan.

I might be mistaken, but I think it's very likely that he did fight along US troops before...

Oh? Did you suddenly acquire combat experience somehow? Reading an article doesn't qualify you for anything except, perhaps, quoting the article.
No, but I can tell people that others agree who do have combat experience.

Not that I ever believed that it mattered when judging the behaviour of soldiers. If I run someone over in my car, everyone would judge me, and rightly so, not just those with a license.

No, but I can tell people that others agree who do have combat experience.

Not that I ever believed that it mattered when judging the behaviour of soldiers. If I run someone over in my car, everyone would judge me, and rightly so, not just those with a license.
You certainly have every right to criticise, but you should at least try to keep in mind that being under fire, being responsible for the lives of other human beings to whom you feel very close indeed, having the power of life and death over some other human beings, worrying about your own life, the lives of your fellow soldiers, the lives of any civilians in the area, and the lives of your family back home, all tend to give combat an entirely different quality than driving your car down a well-paved, relatively safe road.

So do I :

I might be mistaken, but I think it's very likely that he did fight along US troops before...
Perhaps I misunderstood what you were asking. :confused:

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were asking. :confused:

Possibly.
My thought is, he knew the way American troops would fight from previous operations with them. And yet their conduct in Iraq prompted him to abandon his career and risk serious consquences... which makes me wonder if the conduct of American troops in Iraq is in fact much worse than in Afghanistan.
Given the fact that this conflict is going for much longer now, and that there is more general resentment against muslims in the American public, and therefore inevitably in the US army as well, than there was during the conflict in Afghanistan, I would consider it at least possible that many let their prejudices influence their behaviour.

Possibly.
My thought is, he knew the way American troops would fight from previous operations with them. And yet their conduct in Iraq prompted him to abandon his career and risk serious consquences... which makes me wonder if the conduct of American troops in Iraq is in fact much worse than in Afghanistan.
Given the fact that this conflict is going for much longer now, and that there is more general resentment against muslims in the American public, and therefore inevitably in the US army as well, than there was during the conflict in Afghanistan, I would consider it at least possible that many let their prejudices influence their behaviour.
That's not only possible, it's highly likely. In addition, the number of US military personnel killed by what most conventional forces consider to be acts of cowardice and terrorism causes a sort of frustrated rage.

That's not only possible, it's highly likely. In addition, the number of US military personnel killed by what most conventional forces consider to be acts of cowardice and terrorism causes a sort of frustrated rage.

Which leads to a viscious circle... American troops reacting emotionally to aggressive situation, Iraqis in turn feeling treated unfairly or even inhumanely and resorting to guerilla attacks or terrorism to get back at the oppressors, American troops getting even more frustrated....

You can't force the Iraqis to stop their behaviour. What you can do is take away their justification, and therefore the support they get from the public who suffers from military violence and aggression.