NationStates Jolt Archive


Gays and Lesbians: It's high time the right-wingers stood up for you guys as well.

Kyronea
11-03-2006, 20:20
I'm, as many of you know, an Independent leaning towards conservative. I'm also highly in favor of giving homosexuals the same rights towards marriage and all that as everyone else. Why? Simple.

1. There is no proof that homosexuality is a disease or a psychological condition; on the contrary, we have plenty of it in nature as well. Thus, for you Bible/Torah/Quoran/other holy book thumpers, surely God/Allah/Goddess/The Gods/etc have no problem with it, if nature--their design according to your religion, after all--is chock full of it.

2. There is no proof that homosexuals are any different from anyone else; on the contrary, homosexuals are JUST like everyone else. If anything, there are more heterosexual child molesters than there are homosexual child molesters...though this is more likely due to the fact that there tend to be more heterosexuals than homosexuals than anything else. You religious dudes? Try making some gay/lesbian/bisexual friends. You might be pleasantly surprised.

3. There is no proof that children raised by homosexual parents would turn out homosexual; on the contrary, there have been numerous studies on older children raised by lesbian and gay couples that show statistically, the chances for someone to turn out homosexual or heterosexual are the same regardless of who the parent(s)/guardian(s) are. Obviously not all kids raised by heterosexual couples turn out heterosexual; otherwise we wouldn't have any homosexuals, as only technology has given us the ability to allow a homosexual couple to have children, typically through artificial insemination.

4. There is no proof that children require a mommy and a daddy to be raised properly; in fact, those who believe that the cause of crime and whatnot are related to having only one parent or no parents at all are wrong on the whole. It is in reality more due to bad parenting, poverty, authoritarian parenting, and that sort of stuff. I've met some single parents myself: most of them were great people, and their kids equally so. As such, a homosexual couple is not going to have any negative effect on their kids just because they are homosexual: it is the quality of the person, NOT their sexual orientation, that will determine their quality of parenting and thusly how they raise their kids.

5. Society is not a theocracy(With exceptions, such as Iran, but I'm talking in general here.). That's right, religious peeps: believe what you want, but fact is, you can't force that belief upon us. Further, most of you need to understand that the belief is founded in old, ooooold traditions regarding raising kids and whatnot: families were necessary to hold onto territory, especially in the era of feudal systems, and a homosexual in those days couldn't raise a family except via adoption, and as adoption didn't really occur all that often either...I think you see where I'm going. Fact is, that belief is not only idiotic, but it contradicts many other facets of your religion. After all, the diety of your choice supposedly created Earth and nature and the like, right? So if that's true, and homosexuality is also wrong: WHY IS THERE HOMOSEXUALITY IN NATURE? There is no answer to that question. Either your belief that homosexuality is wrong is incorrect, the belief that your diety created Earth is incorrect, or your entire religion is incorrect. Personally I lean towards the third option, but that's just little old athiest me.

6. There is only one secular, and thus, only one really valid reason for not legalizing gay marriage and the like...and it's really not a good reason at that either: "Why should we?" Well, Mr. Bob or whoever came up with this, I've given you the reasons. Not convinced? Too bad.

Let's face it gang: homosexuals, they deserve real rights just like everyone else. Right-wingers need to realize that: if their religious, they need to set their holy book aside. If they simply feel it is wrong, for whatever reason, they need to set that belief aside to, as it is not up to them to force that belief upon others. I'm a right-winged athiest who believes in homosexual rights. It's about time I became merely part of the whole, rather than just a stand-out.
Fass
11-03-2006, 20:25
I'm a right-winged athiest who believes in homosexual rights.

You sound like a lot of right-wingers in my country. No, we do not all have "right-wing = socially conservative" political spectra.
Holy panooly
11-03-2006, 20:26
Total Posts: 11,589 (21.84 posts per day)

Have some fresh air Fass.
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 20:27
You sound like a lot of right-wingers in my country. No, we do not all have "right-wing = socially conservative" political spectra.
I know that. I was, for the most part, speaking to Americans, though it could definitely apply to other countries as well.
Fass
11-03-2006, 20:30
Total Posts: 11,589 (21.84 posts per day)

Have some fresh air Fass.

It's -15 C outside. No, thank you. Do not thread-jack, please.
Soheran
11-03-2006, 20:46
Plenty of right-wingers, even in the US, are - Dick Cheney, neoliberals, right-libertarians, the Log Cabin Republicans (naturally). It's just the religious fundamentalists that are opposed, mostly.
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 20:49
Plenty of right-wingers, even in the US, are - Dick Cheney, neoliberals, right-libertarians, the Log Cabin Republicans (naturally). It's just the religious fundamentalists that are opposed, mostly.
And yet, society in the U.S. is still mostly closed to homosexuality. Just look anywhere and you can see that. Look at the number of states voting marriage resolutions into law. Look at the voting patterns from the 2004 election. It's sickening.
Skaladora
11-03-2006, 20:50
*snip*

If I ever see you at gay pride, I'll hand you a cookie ^^
Skaladora
11-03-2006, 20:52
And yet, society in the U.S. is still mostly closed to homosexuality. Just look anywhere and you can see that. Look at the number of states voting marriage resolutions into law. Look at the voting patterns from the 2004 election. It's sickening.
It's surprising how they don't seem to come around to the fact that most arguments against same-sex marriage is fear-mongering.

We're still waiting for that anarchy, confusion in teen's sexuality and natural disasters holy smiting we were promised here in Canada when it got legalized.
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 20:55
It's surprising how they don't seem to come around to the fact that most arguments against same-sex marriage is fear-mongering.

We're still waiting for that anarchy, confusion in teen's sexuality and natural disasters holy smiting we were promised here in Canada when it got legalized.
See, the problem is, human nature tends to be easily influanced. Most people tend not to truly think about what they're fed by politicians. That is a fact, else we'd have a lot more people who actually believe in common sense, and probably a whole slew of Libertarian Presidents or something by now.

WITH THAT SAID

People aren't stupid. They just need to learn how to wake up, is all, and be more open minded. Canada is a fantastic example of my argument ringing true.
Shotagon
11-03-2006, 20:55
1. There is no proof that homosexuality is a disease or a psychological condition; on the contrary, we have plenty of it in nature as well. Thus, for you Bible/Torah/Quoran/other holy book thumpers, surely God/Allah/Goddess/The Gods/etc have no problem with it, if nature--their design according to your religion, after all--is chock full of it.LOL, it's not a psychological condition? :D

I do think they should be given equal rights, but I don't think your anti-religious rhetoric has anything to do with it. Drop that and you'll find more people accept your ideas.
Neo Kervoskia
11-03-2006, 20:57
You sound like a lot of right-wingers in my country. No, we do not all have "right-wing = socially conservative" political spectra.
..*sniffs* I wish it were that way here. :(
Skaladora
11-03-2006, 21:00
LOL, it's not a psychological condition? :D

I do think they should be given equal rights, but I don't think your anti-religious rhetoric has anything to do with it. Drop that and you'll find more people accept your ideas.
He has a valid point about religion. Most people against equal rights for homosexual use their religion as a pretext to justify their personnal bias and prejudice, and some religions openly endorse such prejudice.

He wouldn't be ranting about religion on this issue if all so-called "christians" were following Jesus' "love thy neighbour" command seriously. But you are right in the sense that not all religions have a negative bias towards homosexuality, and I think that deserves to be repeated. I have no problems with any religion or church that supports equal rights for everyone.
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 21:04
LOL, it's not a psychological condition? :D

I do think they should be given equal rights, but I don't think your anti-religious rhetoric has anything to do with it. Drop that and you'll find more people accept your ideas.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to drop it. Religion is by nature hypocritical and flawed, proven wrong 100% of the time there is actually a case that can be scientifically argued.

That said, I, like Skaladora, have no problem with religions that are for equal rights for all, or for that matter most religions entirely. I simply feel that religious peeps need to stop trying to force their religious beliefs on everyone else. Believe what you want, but don't use it to justify limiting rights.
Soheran
11-03-2006, 21:05
And yet, society in the U.S. is still mostly closed to homosexuality. Just look anywhere and you can see that. Look at the number of states voting marriage resolutions into law. Look at the voting patterns from the 2004 election. It's sickening.

It is indeed sickening. I didn't mean to imply that the American Right in general was pro-gay, it's not, and even among supposed supporters of gay rights you will hear the typical nonsense about "gays shoving homosexuality down our throats." Of course, you hear that on the Left too, sometimes.

I was just pointing out that homophobia is not universal on the Right, and considerable portions of it - especially the intellectual class, which tends towards a sort of nominal social liberalism - have distanced themselves from overt homophobia, at least.
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 21:12
It is indeed sickening. I didn't mean to imply that the American Right in general was pro-gay, it's not, and even among supposed supporters of gay rights you will hear the typical nonsense about "gays shoving homosexuality down our throats." Of course, you hear that on the Left too, sometimes.

I was just pointing out that homophobia is not universal on the Right, and considerable portions of it - especially the intellectual class, which tends towards a sort of nominal social liberalism - have distanced themselves from overt homophobia, at least.
What really needs to be done is something to educate the masses, get them to realize the truth about it and stuff.

...

You know, I've got a friend of mine who recently became a born again Christian. She turned into a religious nutjob. It was utterly disgusting. Worst part of it, she was sucked into it because she was depressed and despite my best efforts, I couldn't help her. She had nowhere else to go, and so a cult just came in and swept her up. OOOH I hate that.

But that's beside the point. Sorry for the semi-offtopic rant there.
Shotagon
11-03-2006, 21:13
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to drop it. Religion is by nature hypocritical and flawed, proven wrong 100% of the time there is actually a case that can be scientifically argued.Which is 0% of the time. Really, I don't think religion has much to do with it. People's interpretations of said religions can be flawed, and they might just be hateful people to begin with. Religion as an entity by itself, however, is not as hypocritical and flawed as you think it is.

That said, I, like Skaladora, have no problem with religions that are for equal rights for all, or for that matter most religions entirely. I simply feel that religious peeps need to stop trying to force their religious beliefs on everyone else. Believe what you want, but don't use it to justify limiting rights.Just as long as you're for equal rights for all. ;)

He has a valid point about religion. Most people against equal rights for homosexual use their religion as a pretext to justify their personnal bias and prejudice, and some religions openly endorse such prejudice.In which case it is obviously not correct, nor equal treatment, to use generalizations.

He wouldn't be ranting about religion on this issue if all so-called "christians" were following Jesus' "love thy neighbour" command seriously. Lol, that's good! I've got to quote that. :)

But you are right in the sense that not all religions have a negative bias towards homosexuality, and I think that deserves to be repeated. I have no problems with any religion or church that supports equal rights for everyone.Very well. :)
Kyronea
11-03-2006, 21:22
Alright, I guess you are right: I'm being a wee bit too overbearing with my opinion regarding religion. Problem is, it's still a valid point for my argument, so how do I rephrase what I'm saying without offending religious peeps?

Ponder that while I go out on my date with my girlfriend. *vanishes*