NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's say hypothetically you are asked by various groups to design their protests for them because they feel all the old forms of protest are outdated. What would you suggest? I have a couple ideas:

Abortion Saves Lives The pro-choice people would hold signs which have graphic pictures of women on the front who have either died in childbirth or who were killed by people who were unwanted children and suffered traumatic abuse for this. On the back would be the tagline "abortion saves lives."

The Tumor Toss Unlike the pieings done (seriously, what's the point of that?) this form of hitting someone with an object would have a metaphorical value. If there is a horrendous polluter out there somewhere whose pollution has been linked to cancer, his victims could surround him and toss their recently removed tumors at him. Sadly, most forms of cancer are malignant and the tumors wouldn't be removed but rather killed with radiation, however the tumors don't have to belong to the people tossing them.

So, what are your ideas?

Let's see how you like it kidnap animal torturers/experimenters, strip them and put them in cages, and then periodically inject them with random drugs. If they complain, tell them it's for the greater good.

it's murder... so? admit that abortion is murder, but still say it's ok. That's it. It confuses the heck out of 'em.

Let's see how you like it kidnap animal torturers/experimenters, strip them and put them in cages, and then periodically inject them with random drugs. If they complain, tell them it's for the greater good.

Because animal experimentation is done by evil scientists for entertainment. :rolleyes:

Because animal experimentation is done by evil scientists for entertainment. :rolleyes:

I knew it all along!!:p

Those "Truth" commercials turned me off of unique forms of protest altogether.

Because animal experimentation is done by evil scientists for entertainment. :rolleyes:

Yes, but it'd be even more entertaining to do it to them.

Let's say hypothetically you are asked by various groups to design their protests for them because they feel all the old forms of protest are outdated. What would you suggest? I have a couple ideas:

Abortion Saves Lives The pro-choice people would hold signs which have graphic pictures of women on the front who have either died in childbirth or who were killed by people who were unwanted children and suffered traumatic abuse for this. On the back would be the tagline "abortion saves lives."

Lets see how you like it (kudos to GnI's sig)

Pro-lifers have a fertilised ostrich egg inserted up their anus and are forced to carry it around for nine months.

or

Rabid libertarians have their memories wiped of all education and training, are sent to a dead end school in a slum for their education and then have to get a job at Walmart because they aren't qualified to do anything else. They will be routinely reminded that it's their fault for not working hard enough.

Yes, but it'd be even more entertaining to do it to them.

I'm having trouble working out if you're a parody or not.

I'm having trouble working out if you're a parody or not.

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.

Then I'm happy to tell you that in two years time I plan to go to Oxford University (if I get in), the centre of the new 'pro-test' movement. I plan to do this despite the cowardly threats of people like you who have declared all University staff and students to be valid targets.

I have mixed feelings on the animal testing thing, myself. On one hand, there is the Nietzschean approach, which I haven't seen refuted yet, that says refraining from hurting animals for one's own gain is a sign of weakness. On the other hand, I just don't have that kind of mean streak.

Lets get a bunch of people to pee on hydrents to show how many dogs die each year from abuse, you know, like those anti smoke commercials

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.
Disgusting. You know what an extremist like you did? They set a bomb to a science lab. But that's not it. After the police and medical teams came, another bomb went off and killed the lot of them.

If you truly believe in natural order, than you should believe that humans are naturally the masters of nature. Nature gave us the ability to hunt, fight, build, etc., better than any other animal on Earth (sure, some animals might be better predators, but can they make tools?). If nature wanted every other animal to be equal to us, she would have made them as tough as us.

I'm not for animal cruelty, I think it's really disgusting and should be avoided if possible, but if it saves sentient lives, go for it.

If you truly believe in natural order, than you should believe that humans are naturally the masters of nature. Nature gave us the ability to hunt, fight, build, etc., better than any other animal on Earth (sure, some animals might be better predators, but can they make tools?). If nature wanted every other animal to be equal to us, she would have made them as tough as us.

I'm not for animal cruelty, I think it's really disgusting and should be avoided if possible, but if it saves sentient lives, go for it.
I'm not taking sides, but you're on dubious ground there. If might makes right, does that legitimise wars of aggression and the law of the jungle? And if so, then why worry about cruelty at all? It leads to a sociopathic/Nietzschean approach which can legitimise systems like fascism. And as for sentient, what's the measure? And are severely mentally retarded people with little or no concept of self still worthy of human rights?

Like I said, I'm not taking sides and haven't really made up my mind on the issue, but it shouldn't be seen as a black and white issue on either side.

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.

Experiments on animals =/= torture
because
Experiments on humans =/= torture

It may be non-consentual and unwanted, but it's not necessarily torture.

It is however, very much torture to go out and kill people.

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.
so you are willing to kill an animal (humans are animals) to save an animal, and you fail to see the irony?

Oh, and non-sentient animals have no rights. Sorry, but its true. Most are also not sentient. Not that this justifies torture, but medical research isn't torture.

There are two types of animal experimentation:
necesary(medical)
unnecesary(non-medical)

How many animals do they have to hurt just to tell us that bleach is not a good eye-drop substitute? I'd protest unecesary experimentation by showing cases in which the effects on people(who were dumb enough to do it to themselves) and animals(who were forced to have it done to them) were different. Afterall, are we really the smartest animals around? What we do in medicine and science we make up for with our obvious lack of common sense. After all, there are 3 types of info.:
1. common sense, like not running in front of speeding cars and not pouring bleach in our eyes.
2. uncommon, but vital, like which wire diffuses the bomb or how to defend yourself.
3. non-vital aka most of science. We can do without super-tanks and myspace.

que? :confused: I'm an extremist, I'll admit it. The animals can't protect their own rights, so they need others to do it for them. I would gladly murder those who carry out or support the torture of animals, and I don't care how many millions of lives the medical research saves.

So you would value a couple of hundred of animal lives over the millions of human lives you describe? Do you think the severly ill people don't also go through torture? Thats equality :rolleyes:
People who burn down labs etc clearly are too passionate to have thought things through - if the labs move away from our countries, they'll move to countries where there are little or no regulations on animal treatment - therefore these people are actually causing more animal suffering.

You don't have to be a blind extremist - think things over

Why can't we use prisoners for medical and cosmetic experiments? At least the results would be accurate, like if you put shampoo in the eyes of 5 inmates the could tell you straight away it stings like hell.

Why can't we use prisoners for medical and cosmetic experiments? At least the results would be accurate, like if you put shampoo in the eyes of 5 inmates the could tell you straight away it stings like hell.

Because we aren't barbarians. Next!

Why can't we use prisoners for medical and cosmetic experiments? At least the results would be accurate, like if you put shampoo in the eyes of 5 inmates the could tell you straight away it stings like hell.

What if they're innocent?

Why can't we use prisoners for medical and cosmetic experiments? At least the results would be accurate, like if you put shampoo in the eyes of 5 inmates the could tell you straight away it stings like hell.
There's a litte word...it's sen-ti-ent.

Disgusting. You know what an extremist like you did? They set a bomb to a science lab. But that's not it. After the police and medical teams came, another bomb went off and killed the lot of them.

I know what you mean. My neighbor works for a company that are linked to animal testing. Animal-rights fanatics came over at the dead of night and poured paint-stripper all over his car. The barstards timed it so that they attacked when he was away in America on a business trip and only his wife (who was completely unconnected to his work) and his two young children (both under the age of two) were at home. I can only imagine how terrified she must have been. This is why I get angry whenever anyone claims that these lunatics are anything more than cowardly scum.

Because we aren't barbarians. Next!

But it's ok to put the same stuff in animals eyes :confused:

But it's ok to put the same stuff in animals eyes :confused:
Yet, they are not sentient. Thus not deserving of sentient rights.

But it's ok to put the same stuff in animals eyes :confused:
key word is "sentient". things are also tested before they can be used on animals. We already know if they are toxic, or corrosive, or severly harmful.

so you are willing to kill an animal (humans are animals) to save an animal, and you fail to see the irony?

Oh, and animals have no rights. Sorry, but its true. Most are also not sentient. Not that this justifies torture, but medical research isn't torture.

Was this intentional?

What if they're innocent?

Innocent!!
So it's ok to breed animals and keep them in cages to conduct bizarre experiments on them, cause heck they're guilty!?

Innocent!!
So it's ok to breed animals and keep them in cages to conduct bizarre experiments on them, cause heck they're guilty!?
SENTIENT.

Was this intentional?
haha...somewhat. more that I did i by accident, noticed it too late, and wanted to see how long it would go without comment.

what the hell does sentient mean? How do we know that animals aren't? I think they can be. Refute that. They don't have hands. Big whoopty do. They aren't human. There you go, narsisistic egomaniac. They can't think. How the hell do you know? They can't speak. Oh, yes they can. You just can't understand what they say. Dogs speak with their doggie language. Language is just another word for communication. Is a Mexican unsentient if you don't know what the hell he is saying? Are apes unsentient because they can't say "Damn, this burns, you sick mother f*cker."? what the hell does sentient mean, damn it?

Actual protest --> Leave a gun in a public place. See if it kills anyone.

what the hell does sentient mean? How do we know that animals aren't? I think they can be. Refute that. They don't have hands. Big whoopty do. They aren't human. There you go, narsisistic egomaniac. They can't think. How the hell do you know? They can't speak. Oh, yes they can. You just can't understand what they say. Dogs speak with their doggie language. Language is just another word for communication. Is a Mexican unsentient if you don't know what the hell he is saying? Are apes unsentient because they can't say "Damn, this burns, you sick mother f*cker."? what the hell does sentient mean, damn it?
Let's see...over the last few thousand years, we have pretty much been able to eventually comprehend anothers language, thus meaning other humans were sentient. However, since the begining of man, we have been unable to comprehend animal communication. We are smart enough to figure it out if it was there.

And, also, you could take this religiously. If you take the Bible literally (I don't) it says animals have no souls.

what the hell does sentient mean? How do we know that animals aren't? I think they can be. Refute that. They don't have hands. Big whoopty do. They aren't human. There you go, narsisistic egomaniac. They can't think. How the hell do you know? They can't speak. Oh, yes they can. You just can't understand what they say. Dogs speak with their doggie language. Language is just another word for communication. Is a Mexican unsentient if you don't know what the hell he is saying? Are apes unsentient because they can't say "Damn, this burns, you sick mother f*cker."? what the hell does sentient mean, damn it?
apes and dolphins are sentient. Dogs attack their reflection and tails. Therefore, they are not self aware. We have tests to judge this.

Let's see...over the last few thousand years, we have pretty much been able to eventually comprehend anothers language, thus meaning other humans were sentient. However, since the begining of man, we have been unable to comprehend animal communication. We are smart enough to figure it out if it was there.

And, also, you could take this religiously. If you take the Bible literally (I don't) it says animals have no souls.
well, actually, we have taught gorillas to use sign language and other forms of speech, and a few other great apes (if not all of them). But as I said, the great apes are sentient.

Innocent!!
So it's ok to breed animals and keep them in cages to conduct bizarre experiments on them, cause heck they're guilty!?

Never.Said.That.
For some reason I seem to think that pouring bleach in somebody's eye is wrong :rolleyes:

Never.Said.That.
For some reason I seem to think that pouring bleach in somebody's eye is wrong :rolleyes:
for some reason, I'm pretty sure (okay, positive) that this bleach concept is a complete and utter false analogy. Do some research about what is tested and how, then we can discuss
(Barat, this isn't directed at you at all...I just quoted you so I could start out with "for some reason" and sound like a smartass;) )

Let's see how you like it kidnap animal torturers/experimenters, strip them and put them in cages, and then periodically inject them with random drugs. If they complain, tell them it's for the greater good.
Let's see how you like it Blow up animal rights activists' children and then throw bricks smeared with excrement through their windows. If they complain then tell them that you are doing what you're doing because you oppose torture and murder.

NB: This analogy is inaccurate, as the work of animal rights activists does not, unlike that of medical researchers, lead to cures for diseases. Instead it leads to valuable research into composing novel and intimidating death threats and new ways to wire car bombs.

for some reason, I'm pretty sure (okay, positive) that this bleach concept is a complete and utter false analogy. Do some research about what is tested and how, then we can discuss
(Barat, this isn't directed at you at all...I just quoted you so I could start out with "for some reason" and sound like a smartass;) )

I made some evidence on paint - should be enough to get some humus chomping, free-range-grass coat wearing, manical protesters into a frenzy.

On animal testing, the law in Britain (http://www.medicalprogress.org/control/legislation.cfm):

The law in Britain protects animals from unnecessary use in scientific experiments. Animal experiments are only permitted if the work cannot be done any other way.
...
It regulates scientific procedures that are likely to cause pain, suffering, distress or lasting harm.
...
If it is agreed there are no alternatives, then scientists must use the least number of animals and keep suffering to a minimum (for example by pain relief). Cats, dogs and primates can only be used if another species is not suitable. Great apes, such as chimpanzees, are never used in the UK. Under the law, the scientists who have the licences to carry out the experiments have the main responsibility for the welfare of the animals in their care. In addition, every licensed laboratory has to have a senior person (the certificate holder) whose job is to ensure that it complies with the law. Every laboratory must also have a named veterinary surgeon and a named animal care and welfare officer who are there to look after the welfare of the research animals.

People who value animal lives over human lives sicken me, quite frankly. I really cannot comprehend it - though I do doubt whether people can generally actually follow it through in reality.

People overidentify with animals. We talk about them using human characteristics and emotions and this portrays the idea that they are the same to us in their personalities, intelligence and any suffering they go through.
Until that's proven, saving human lives will always come first to me.

Just waste them, we're always right!-pro any war slogan for any country.

Actual protest --> Leave a gun in a public place. See if it kills anyone.

:rolleyes: Let's hear it for Mr. I-don't-know-shit-about-gun-safety!

Even the NRA has more sense than that.

Even the NRA has more sense than that.
Thanks for the random insults. Did I say the gun was loaded? Was the clip locked in place? I don't know, you don't know, but the point is, the gun isn't going to kill anyone by itself. Every responsible gun owner has the sense to know that, but locks them up nice and tight anyhow. This a radical protest. Get radical!

Crank Divorces Send a faux-government letter out to those who oppose Gay Rights informing them that a law has been passed preventing the marriage of "dirty heterosexuals" like them (because God hates them, after all) for the good of families and that their marriage has been dissolved.

It probably wouldn't change any minds, but I figure the comic value makes up for it.

(sure, some animals might be better predators, but can they make tools?).Yes, they can:

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/crow/

Let's see how you like it kidnap animal torturers/experimenters, strip them and put them in cages, and then periodically inject them with random drugs. If they complain, tell them it's for the greater good.

Kidnap radical animal rights activists with diseases and take away all their medication. If they complain, tell them you're protecting them from their own hypocrisy.

Yes, they can:

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/crow/

Bet they couldn't make a particle-accelerator though :D

Bet they couldn't make a particle-accelerator though :DLol. I dunno, maybe someday they will. This was a frickin crow we were talking about. While birds are smart, they aren't acknowledged as being the smartest animals, so who knows what a dolphin or orangutan is capable of doing?

Lol. I dunno, maybe someday they will. This was a frickin crow we were talking about. While birds are smart, they aren't acknowledged as being the smartest animals, so who knows what a dolphin or orangutan is capable of doing?
Well all a dolphin does is swim around and eat and sleep.. that sounds pretty smart to me..

Well all a dolphin does is swim around and eat and sleep.. that sounds pretty smart to me..Lol. And have sex for pleasure, don't forget that.

I once saw this experiment done of the old 1960s 'Candid Camera' where these people would picket an empty lot with blank signs and hand out blank pamphlets. It was a test in comformity and the 'protesters' would go around asking people to join without ever directly saying what they were protesting..like they say that they were protesting everything and they'd chant really vague things, etc... It turned out a lot of people ended up joining the lines (they started out with 5, but by the end they had about a dozen people with them). It was awesome!

Lol. And have sex for pleasure, don't forget that.
Of course! Sex for pleasure, usually in a tropical climate.. damn.. all us humans have done is found stupid ways in which to decrease our leisure time and more efficient ways of killing each other..

Quit while your ahead Hold a race, any time someone starts to pull ahead they get beaten until the other contestants catch up. Once all the contestants are too battered to move or if they finish the race at the same time, let the crowd rip them apart. Fun for the whole family.

Quit while your ahead Hold a race, any time someone starts to pull ahead they get beaten until the other contestants catch up. Once all the contestants are too battered to move or if they finish the race at the same time, let the crowd rip them apart. Fun for the whole family.What are you protesting against with this?

What are you protesting against with this?
Pacifism.

Pacifism.Ah. I got the impression it was about what his view of communism was.

What are you protesting against with this?
Runners. :D

Pacifism.
Not really, for that we have the:

Hari Krishna Hunt and BBQ Contestants will have 24 hours to hunt down and bag Hari Krishnas.* Krishnas will be jugded by size, weight, and tilakas. Winners will be chosen by points as per judging criteria. Afterwards will be Hari Krisna cook-off where you can compare Krisna recipes and preparation methods with your fellow Krishna hunters. Cooking pits will be available, but BYOBS (Bring Your Own Barbecue Sauce) and an appetite!


*Krishna's are bipedal, bright orange in color and can be found wandering the streets, airports, or any other public place. They call to each other with bizzare cymbal, drum, or chanting noises and generally roam in packs. Hari Krishnas are easy prey, as they will not actively resist. They may scatter if startled.